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Author Topic: Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question  (Read 3659 times)

Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« on: August 22, 2010, 10:30:39 AM »


With reference to my 68 Sport Fury, I have been thinking about my transmission problem (rpm runaway at 1-2 & 2-3 shifts) and have a question.

I have adjusted the throttle linkage as outlined in the 1968 Factory Service Manual...BUT my transmission was built in 1971. I learned here that in 1971, they introduced a part throttle kickdown feature to the torqueflite. Now I am wondering if this change in transmission design required a different linkage adjustment procedure than the one for the previous design.

As I started to consider this possibility, I am reminded that when I first performed the adjustment procedure outlined in the '68 FSM, the vertical rod connecting the bellcrank to the transmission has been bent pretty substantially. At the time I couldn't understand how that rod got bent, since it is well protected by the engine and firewall.

With these bends, I was unable to follow the adjustment procedure because the rod wasn't long enough. So I straitened the rod the best I could. I was then able to follow the procedure because the rod was now straighter and therefore, longer. Hooray for me.

In retrospect, what a fool I was! At this point in time, I hadn't driven the car yet. I was just going through the the entire car, changing all the fluids and filters and making sure everything was honky dory. The linkage adjustment check was just another step in this process.

In my defense, at this time I didn't know the trans was a '71 vintage, but since I didn't understand the importance of this linkage and how critical in the operation of the transmission, I just went ahead and 'fixed' the linkage without even knowing if it needed fixing at all!!!!!

If anyone here knows the linkage adjustment procedure for a '71 TF, could you please share it with me. I don't know if I might be onto something, or if I'm on a wild goose chase.

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

Uncle Hulka2010-08-22 15:32:23
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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Leaburn Patey

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 11:18:50 AM »

WILD GOOSE CHASE..
The part throttle kickdown feature is inside the valve body and the linkage does not need to be changed..
My 68 New Yorker also had a newer trans in it and once adjusted,I never had any problems with it and the 3-2 feature actually made driving the car better. 
If you still have the factory 68 linkage,follow the 68 FSM procedure..
 
The BoaB 's original 727 I actually had the 3-2 feature added to it.
I am using original 4bbl 383 kickdown linkage with it.
CBarge2010-08-22 16:21:38
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1968 Newport Custom project BOAB
1973 Satelitte wagon
1983 Dodge 400
2006 300C HEMI!!

Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2010, 11:23:28 AM »

Hey CBarge! Thanks for the input, but your reply kind of bums me out (do
 they still say that?) I really thought I was onto something.



sigh



I'm out of ideas (and cash)!

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

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1968 Newport Custom project BOAB
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1983 Dodge 400
2006 300C HEMI!!

Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2010, 12:03:26 PM »

Pretty sure I followed this procedure, BUT I might have elongated the vertical rod TOO much! I'll investigate and let you know. Thanks, CBARGE!!!

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2010, 04:37:13 PM »

[/QUOTE]

In translation, are you saying the transmission does not shift into the next higher gear unless you back off the gas? There are only two basic designs of shift rods plus the aftermarket Lokar cable setup out there. Very early ones were a solid bent rod that went from transmission to carburetor, later ones, I figure somewhere around 1967ish (update this with my thanks), then it was the pivot on the side of the tranny, a bracket at the back of the driver's side intake manifold, and a slotted rod (adjustable and non-adjustable). Unless there is a change in the pivot points, there aren't anything else that could attribute to this adjustment problem, to which all three setups are extremely touchy and as little as .040inch out of adjustment can change the shift by 15mph difference. My final adjustment is always at the carburetor, and even at that it is both driving and adjusting several times to get it correct. If there isn't enough adjustment at the carb, I have actually installed a small bolt and nut to adjust enough pressure after all the stock adjustment had been taken to max.
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Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 02:31:51 PM »

That's right, Dana44. To be honest, when it tries to shift under heavy acceleration, I lift after a second or two to avoid burning anything up so I can't say for sure it wouldn't shift by itself under those conditions.

I'm pretty sure I've got it adjusted properly. It seems to shift at the proper point (speed) under little to light acceleration.

Why is it behaving like this? could it be clutches and steels? I guess I want to hear that it's an external adjustment and I don't have to rebuild her.

AARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 02:59:32 PM »

No, clutches and steels, and bands for that matter, don't determine kickdown shifting, it is all throttle position and the amount of pressure to the governor through the line pressure itself. Take and adjust it by one thread turn at a time, up and down. I suspect it needs to be shortened so as to allow it to shift into the next higher gear, so start with one turn rightie tightie, to reduce the pressure amount during kickdown. It may take a couple tries to get it correct, but believe me, they are very touchy, like I said, .030-.040 can be the difference of a 1000rpm in shift time.
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Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 02:12:59 AM »

And this adjustment could be the cause of runaway rpm at the shift point?

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Snotty

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 08:20:31 AM »

Quote from: Uncle Hulka
And this adjustment could be the cause of runaway rpm at the shift point?



 
I asked this same question to my friend Chris "The Doctor" because my Newport does the same.  Not always or consistently, but there are times that it will "race" between shifts.  He said I had the linkage set right and since I had recently serviced the transmission and adjusted the bands, the problem more than likely is...
 
...an old transmisison in need of a rebuild.
 
The 727 is supposed to be bullitproof but they do wear out.  Chris said if all is set right adn the problem continues it is an internal problem that cannot be adjusted away.
 
You might just need to have some work done on your transmission.  Sorry for the bad news.
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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 09:04:21 AM »

Are you saying the "runaway rpm" is that when it shifts, the engine rpm goes up and stays up before it goes into the next gear? Kind of a slipping that occurs, rpm goes up, then it drops into the next gear? I have to figure this out, I was thinking the shift just wasn't happening until you let off the gas, and then it would shift.
 
The "slippage and racing rpm" is a two-fold problem. The transmission fluid passages are designed to allow as smooth a shift as possible by overlapping two gears at one time. This does wear out the transmissions faster because two gears are actually engaged at the same time. Shifts should be one then the other, no overlap, but a little harsher shift. So, line pressure itself being too low can exasberate this condition, and/or sludge in the valve body that has reduced the volume of the fluid flow itself. Usually the grey sludge collects in the passages and over time, kind of like a rainwater drain that has filled with silt from flowing water, it slows down and next thing you know it only flows one gallon a minute instead of the old two gallons a minute. Because of this, less fluid in the transmission is being directed from one gear (clutch pack and/or band) and the delay overruns each other in between.
 
Now, if this is more correct of what you were trying to describe and I didn't understand it, a transmission flush doesn't fix the problem, the valve body actually has to be removed and dismantled. A basic shift kit could/would actually help, there is actually a standard fluid passage that is increased in size to help speed up the shifts, every brand kit has it, a little guide and drill bit to open up the passageway, adjustment of the line pressure cage, and a few checkballs removed (4 of 7 I believe), to which one of these seven check balls may be restricted in its movement due to this sludge, tiny BB sized balls can be slowed down quite easily with this sludge. It would be hard to say how long the transmission would last after the cleaning, based on its mileage and age, a clean valve body in stock cleaning condition may or may not last several years, just no way to know for sure.
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Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 07:44:42 AM »

This is what I was kind of dreading, but deep down felt was probable.

OK, now two final questions;

1) Can this rebuild be don with the trans in the car or does it have to be pulled?

2) Does anyone here recommend a specific rebuild/shift kit and the best place to get it? I'm thinking TransGo was a name I've heard,but I could be mistaken.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected, but dared not say aloud.

Oh well, part of the joy of owning an old car. On the bright side, I can't wait to see how she runs with a rebuilt transmission with a moderate shift kit!!! Woo Hoo!

All my thanks,
Uncle Hulka


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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Snotty

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 08:08:01 AM »

Has to be pulled.
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Steve

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2010, 02:36:13 PM »

DOH!

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

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Torqueflite throttle linkage adjustment question
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2010, 04:18:06 PM »

There are actually two small surgeries that can be done to ensure a full pull/rebuild needs to be done all at once (even though I do approve of this method, there are fix/checks that might, and I say might, fix her TEMPORARILY).
 
 One is to drop the driveline, (pan underneath), block the pan up and pull the rear support, then unbolt the rear tail housing. The governor is located there, it may be sticking. Pull apart, clean, check for galling (shuttle valve), tranny oil her up and reinstall everything.  Might lose a pint of fluid, possibly a little more, but if you jack the car up from the rear instead of the front, most will stay forward of the pan.
 
Second is to take apart the valve body as mentioned earlier and clean as noted. Basically a shift kit (you can keep it mild, no problem), but cleaning everything and relubricating it when going back together, and readjusting the bands, may give her a little more life.
 
If this doesn't fix the problem for a couple years, at least these two things won't have to be dealt with if you do have to pull her out and rebuild the whole thing.
 
I see it that, if you have the funds to do it right, do it now, and do it once, it's always less hassle in the future, especially the fear factor of waiting for it to be done, which could be anything from several months, to several years, dropping the tranny pan would give a better idea, based on the amount of shavings in the pan when the pan is pulled.
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