MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 08:19:20 AM

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 08:19:20 AM
Whats the difference between the Hemi's of the 50's and the Hemi's made in 66-71 or are they essentially the same? 

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Johnny D. on September 26, 2007, 10:24:51 AM
you writing a book? 

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 26, 2007, 10:32:52 AM
The only thing they have in common is the Hemispherical combustionchamber... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)



Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on September 26, 2007, 10:45:39 AM
they are completely different motors( other than the combustion chambers)
i guess alot of people like the old ones better but i believe there is nothing more fun than popping the hood and seeing a black and orange 426
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 26, 2007, 10:59:30 AM
The older ones had a narrower skirt so they had shorter strokes.  In some cases it's a fit problem that old Hemi solves
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 26, 2007, 11:08:40 AM
I'm currently building a 392 Hemi to be placed in my '62 Chrysler-wagon.
That same wagon also hauled it home from across the country (= here 200 miles)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/BigBlockMopar/392-Hemi/IMG_1389.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/BigBlockMopar/392-Hemi/AUT18402.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/BigBlockMopar/392-Hemi/AUT18156.jpg)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 11:26:01 AM
Thank you Fellas, and thank you BigBlock for the Helpfull pictures.
Foamy i can agree with you popping the hood and seeing a black and
orange 426 is pretty damn awsome. 

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Marc on September 26, 2007, 11:30:00 AM
For more information i recomend Tex Smiths The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Johnny D. on September 26, 2007, 11:41:27 AM

 (http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/hemi.html#)"Chrysler produced their first engines with hemispherically-shaped combustion chambers in the 1951, but these early motors (301, 331, 354, and 392 cu. in.) share nothing in common with the 426
except for spark plug location and basic valve train arrangement. These
"old style" hemis were primarily passenger-car motors, although later versions did power
the legendary Crysler 300 "letter cars" until 1958. Chrysler referred
to these engines as the "Red Ram", "Firedome" and "Firepower" motors
throughout their production. Horsepower peaked in 1958 with a 2-4bbl
version of the 392 rated at 390 hp. Today, these motors are difficult
to find, and those which aren't in restored vehicles are most often
found in fuel dragsters and funny cars, running on alcohol...."

thats from Allpar.com

i also highly reccomend this one quit interesting  http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/chrysler-hemi.html where you can see a V16 Hemi for the XP-47 Thunderbolt...

"The inverted V-16 was conservatively rated at 2,500 horsepower, and
Chrysler has always been known for under rating their engines.
For testing, a P-47 Thunderbolt was selected. Introduced in 1943,
the P-47 was the largest and heaviest single seater in the Air Force
inventory at the time. It was powered by a huge 2,800 cubic inch radial
engine that developed 2,300 horsepower. It gave the 40 foot wing span
If you read further it says estimates put the engine at 3,500 hp!
MobStaffCar722007-09-26 16:47:06
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 11:47:24 AM
Alright Yooooo-Beeeeee!, all this knowledge is great. 

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Johnny D. on September 26, 2007, 11:53:39 AM
I do what I can with what I got! everyone else here has skill... I just fake it!

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 26, 2007, 04:07:13 PM
You can run. . .But you can't hide. <Aint no Mountain high enough, Aint no valley low enough> (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
Rear engined Hemi 62 Chrysler Wagon.  MMMMMM    That's better than a Diesel 72 Polara
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 04:32:02 PM
I like the sound of a rear engine 62 Chrysler Wagon, but a Diesel 72
Polara would be awsome, in fact make it a turbo Diesel. B your right
everyone is very helpful and knowledgable.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 26, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
My fault. . .we're straying off topic in the Tech section.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 04:48:12 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
The older ones had a narrower skirt so they had shorter
strokes.  In some cases it's a fit problem that old Hemi
solves

Did that mean that the block was smaller, or shortened in anyway, and
excuse me if this is a dumb question , what is a skirt in relation to
the older Hemi's or a engine in general.


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 26, 2007, 05:49:24 PM
The Skirt is the bottom of the engine where the oil pan bolts on.
 
I might add, Chebby had to 4 bolt HP mains because their shirts were higher than Mopar.  Mopars blocks are beefier from the start.  Touch of trivia
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 26, 2007, 06:23:32 PM
Also,the Hemi of the '60's was based on the Wedge block.
The 426 Wedge,440 and Hemi share common traits.
Eventually,when original Hemi blocks were very scarce (prior to the reproduction blocks)Siamese heads  were being used.I.E.jammong hemi heads onm a 440 or whatever.
When Ma decided to reproduce the Hemi engines again,they improved the oiling and cooling problems the '64-'71 hemi's were known for.
There was a time the repro blocks were unavailable and had long waiting lists just to get one.The manufacturer whom ma contracted the castings went belly up.Leaving Mopar scampering to retreive the molds,and find somebody to step in just to fill orders.
 
  
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2007, 07:38:57 PM
Very interesting fellas, I'm glad i have all this valuable insight to enlighten my automotive knowlegde, Thank you.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 26, 2007, 11:16:03 PM

There was a time the repro blocks were unavailable and had long waiting lists just to get one.[/QUOTE]

Those times still haven't changed one bit I can tell you.
A friend of mine tried ordering a Hemi for a customer of his through MoparPerformance but got the Nationwide BackOrder-waitinglist reply instead. He would have to wait at least a year before it even became clear if he was to get a Hemi at all.
The customer coughed up some extra dough and they're going for a KB or Indy-hemi now, can't remember which.



Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 27, 2007, 04:58:05 AM
It is my understanding the Mopar is the best???
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 27, 2007, 05:12:50 AM
Best? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
I suppose you were looking for a tonque-in-cheek-smiley but couldn't find one huh... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)



Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2007, 09:03:54 AM
I'm a guy who believes that getting it from the company who made it
first, in this case Mopar , is the best to get to avoid problems.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Jacques on September 27, 2007, 09:43:14 AM
Yes, but lately, all Mopar Performance has been doing is relabeling cheapss crap and selling it for twice the actual value. It has nothing to do with the company that designed and build these engines 40 years ago.

So I would rather spend money on a specialized company like Indy, if I had the bucks for such a motor. 

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 27, 2007, 10:35:25 AM
So I would rather spend money on a specialized company like Indy, if I had the bucks for such a motor.  [/QUOTE]
 
Agreed
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2007, 11:45:46 AM
Well thats a real bummer to hear fellas, I guess thats the way the ball bounces.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Jacques on September 27, 2007, 11:56:12 AM
Well, from ChryCo's perspective, it is perfectly understandable, since the aftermarket stuff is a very limited turnover for them, and it wouldnt pay off to invest a lot in production and r&d for this stuff. And this is where small specialized companies fill the gaps. Companies like Indy, KB, Stage V, 440 source, etc.


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2007, 12:10:34 PM
Not to mention Chrysler is kinda broke. I can understand that, after
market wasent really a big concern for chrysler from what i know, I
could be wrong.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 27, 2007, 12:21:45 PM
"Ze Germans" have drained Chrysler for all it was worth and now they've sold the remains back into US-hands.
According to the CEO of Chrysler in the Nerherlands this is the best thing that could happen to Chrysler because now there's enough 'money' available again to get Chrysler ready again 'for the next 100-years'


Anyway... "we" are going slightly offtopic here I guess... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2007, 12:33:11 PM
Well this is true , I always felt that Chrysler should of brought benz
out , but hey now Chrysler can get back on its feet and keep producing
cars the AMERICAN way, and to keep pumping out those Hemi's. See i
brought the topic right back lol.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on September 27, 2007, 12:53:30 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
OK  Once again Blabber Mouth (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
Start a discussion.  General BS might be appropriate. . .Link these together.   Actually, it would be a great discussion if Potatoe can stop edging on Mobby. .  . (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2007, 01:00:04 PM
Hahaha, very funny Steve, just remember who has the back....Damned old farts.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Herman on September 27, 2007, 01:02:58 PM
I could start all the discussions I can, but why would 'youse guys' (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) take my Dutch word for it.. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Speaking of pumping out Hemi's... What about the differences between the early 392's and the new 392's.... ? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on September 29, 2007, 10:00:26 AM

Quote from: Potatoe
Quote from: POLARACO
The older ones had a narrower skirt so they had shorter
strokes.  In some cases it's a fit problem that old Hemi
solves
Would that be the only difference as stated earlier



Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 01, 2007, 11:37:05 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
About the same as the "A" 318 and the "LA" 318.  All they share are the cubes.  The new 392 is merely a cubic-inch coincidence - it is a totally different motor.
 
No one has mentioned that Mopar in the fifty's had three different hemi "families."  Those mentioned so far were Chrysler specific.  However, Dodge and DeSoto eack had hemi motors of totally different sizes.  (All I know are the Dodge 270 and 345.)  Plymouth was not given a Hemi in the 50's.
 
When the 426 Hemi appeared, it could be found in Plymouth and Dodge, but it was the same motor for both.  Chrysler was not given this motor at all.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2007, 06:18:35 PM
The Nose Knows.
 
That is a fact Snotty. 
 
 The new Hemi is over head cam also.  Way more efficient
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 03, 2007, 06:27:01 PM
but nothing beats an old HEMI
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 03, 2007, 08:41:50 PM
Quote from: Foamy_302
but nothing beats an old HEMI
 
How about another Hemi????
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on October 03, 2007, 10:26:43 PM
 
Quote from: BigBlockMopar
I could start all the discussions I can, but why would 'youse guys' (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) take my Dutch word for it.. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)Speaking of pumping out Hemi's... What about the differences between the early 392's and the new 392's.... ? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Hey Herm,If your not Dutch your not much!!
Bla bla bla HEMI HEMI HEMI there I'm on topic!!!!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2007, 05:22:04 AM
Sick
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 04, 2007, 08:35:20 AM
the only thing that beats a street 426 are TWO 528 drag hemi's on a rail. but don't let me drive it lol..   Hmmmm a 528 HEMI Fury III.
now theres an idea lol
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2007, 02:45:49 PM
Ar, your halarious, and besides the idea of a 528 Hemi, In reference to
what Snotty has said, Chrysler's Hemi was called Fire Power , and De
Soto was called Fire Dome, what was Dodge and Plymouth's called. Also
since the engines each had their own catch name for the brand, were
these engines the same sonce they were all in the chrysler family or
did each division add its own twist. This of course is in reference to
50's Hemi's.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Marc on October 04, 2007, 02:49:24 PM
desoto also had some called fire power and the dodges were red rams. there were no plymouth hemis in the 50s
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 04, 2007, 02:57:11 PM
Chrysler and Imperial had theirs called the FirePower,dodge had the Red Ram, Desoto had the FireDome. the dodge was smaller(in cubic inches).
Chrysler and Imperial had engines in the following Cubes . 331, 354, 392.
Desoto had 276, 291, 330, 341, and 345.
Dodge had 241, 270, 315, and 325..
if you need any more info just check out Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_FirePower_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_FirePower_engine)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 04, 2007, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: Potatoe
Ar, your halarious, and besides the idea of a 528 Hemi, In reference to what Snotty has said, Chrysler's Hemi was called Fire Power , and De Soto was called Fire Dome, what was Dodge and Plymouth's called. Also since the engines each had their own catch name for the brand, were these engines the same sonce they were all in the chrysler family or did each division add its own twist. This of course is in reference to 50's Hemi's.
 
They each had their own twist, Tater.  That was what I was saying earlier.  Unlike the 426, these early Hemis were not "corporate" motors.
 
Also unlike a 426, you could take the heads from a 331 Hemi and put them on a 331 Poly.  All you needed was the hemi pushrods.  But this could not be done with the 426 street wedge and the 426 hemi - or any other later wedge motor for that matter.
 
Most people don't know that about the early hemis.  They will look high and low for a complete hemi instead of finding a good poly motor and just look for the heads.  (This will not work for the 318 "poly" motor, contrary to popular opinion.)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2007, 08:02:31 PM
Ok Snotty,

Explain to me why Mopar fans call the Polly the Predate to the Hemi, what makes a Polly a Polly?



Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 04, 2007, 08:04:46 PM
wow not whats some thing i didn't know. 331 poly with Hemi heads??
lol wow. i guess you learn new thing every night
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 05, 2007, 09:18:18 PM
Yes, Chrsler made two different 331 - 354s for the matter - the only difference was one had the hemispherical combustion chamber heads, and the other had a polispherical combustuion chamber head.  The heads mount the same for both motors, which is why all you need are the pushrods.  One bank of rods - either the intake or exhaust - were shorter on the poly motor, so a person needs the hemi pushrods.
 
The same can be done for the Dodge 315 and many other of the early hemis.  But not the 318!  It uses an entirely differnet intake that wll not mate with the hemi heads, nor can it be made to do so.
 
Tater, if you look at an early 316, say in a '65 Dodge, look at the valve covers and you will see they are "Sculpted" due to the combustion chamber.  The same for the early poly motors.
 
They're great motors!  But, just like modern 318s or even 383s, people will trip over them looking ofr a 440 or a hemi.
 
Oh, why won't a 426 hemi head fit on a 440, or any B/RB block?  SImilar to teh early 318, they use completely different intakes, but also they use Allen-head bolts that come from under the head, not from the top.  There's no way to make them fit.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2007, 09:38:07 AM
Thanks a lot Snotty, thats the info I was looking for!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 06, 2007, 07:44:05 PM
Jeeze, it passed unnoticed that Polaraco said the new Hemis are overhead cam......the multiple cylinder shutdown on the 5.7L Hemi is activated by the shutting down of LIFTERS in the BLOCK....the PUSHRODS don't actuate the ROCKERS after that.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
Oh, and the easiest way to think about the original question is that the early Hemis were comparable to the 340 engines while the 426 Hemi was comparable to the 440 wedges in block size and design.....placement of distributors, oiling, deck height, etc.
 
Tex Smith's book is the bible for these engines and also offers a polysphere rebuild section.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 08, 2007, 11:23:10 AM
Bobby, I was wondering about the OHC commentas well.
 
I don't get the comparison to the 340 at all.  They look similar?  So does a small block Chevy.  The only thing one could use from a 340 - or any LA block for that matter - on an early hemi is the carb.  I just don't get that comparison.
 
Who said that?
 
Snotty
 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 08, 2007, 03:48:55 PM
That was pretty slick huh?
 
After I wrote that I doubted myself and had to go look again.  The New Hemi is in fact NOT OHC.  I should spend more time being careful when looking at that stuff.  I confused it with the 6, which IS OHC. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
 
Now you Gizze. . . .  Sheeesh 
 
OK I yeeped up and Stitches is the first one to catch it.  Maybe it's too new for my brain to absorb. . .(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 09, 2007, 02:29:03 PM
Its alright Steve, Reading through the great post and contributions
that everyone has left another question popped into my Starchy brain.
The question being where does the LA engine originate and why is it
called and LA engine?

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 10, 2007, 09:31:29 PM
Tater, the LA motor originated in '64 with the introduction of the 273 small block.  That block was bored to 318 c.i.d. in '67, then 340 in '68, and finally 360 in '72.
 
It's called "LA" to diferentiate it from the original "A" 318 that was phased out in '66.  This is not written in any Chrysler History, but I always think of "LAter A" becasue it came after the A.
 
The Big blocks introduced in '58 were either B or RB.  The RB meant "raised B" because its deck was one inch higher than the B.  The result is a wider motor - the 413/440 is 2" wider at the heads than the 383. 
 
BUT!!!!  Be careful, the '59-'60 383 is an RB!  Tricksy!!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 12, 2007, 02:43:35 PM
Thanks a lot for clearing that up Scott, thats somthing I have wondered
about for some time, this post just keeps getting better.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Ken on October 17, 2007, 05:01:48 PM
What Snotty forgot to mention is that the FIRST B engine displaced 350 CI...a one year only item, as it was bored out to displace 361ci, then again for 383.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 22, 2007, 09:18:31 PM
Absolutely right, Moe.  But another fact - it was available in Plymouth only!
 
Chrysler's 350 is a trivia question I like to toss out at people.  (Did they make one?)  I do the same with these questions: 
Did Chevy ever build a 302? 
What's the difference between a Chevy 400 and a Chevy 400? 
If Chrysler's 350 and Chevy's 348 are both big blocks, how come a Pontiac 455 and an AMC 401 are not? 
Which Chrysler motor had the largest pistons? 
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
WHy won't headers for a Chevy 350 fit on a Pontiac 350? 
Why is a Chrysler 318 physically larger than a Chevy 350?  Same question for a Chrysler 350 and an AMC 401?
 
I'm weird, but I like this kind of stuff!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 22, 2007, 09:34:24 PM
Well Scott for one I believe I have an answer for you. Now back in the
60 and early 70's when GM was swinging in money each of the divisions
of GM Pontiac, Buick Olds and Chevy where independant divisions of each
other in regards to engineering. The blocks may have essentailly been
the same but each engine was set up different in terms of tuning and
ultimate HP output. A good example would be the 455 block thay Olds,
Pontiac and Buick used each was tuned and set up differently to put out
thier own respective HP therefor things such as headers would fit
different between the independant divisions.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 23, 2007, 10:23:39 AM
Swing and a miss!
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 23, 2007, 10:27:19 AM
i always thought that the Buick, Olds, and Pontiac were all differant motors??
kinda like Arethe Caddy 502 and the GM BB502 the same motor??
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 23, 2007, 10:32:17 AM
Bingo!  Albeit they were the same c.i.d., they were entirely different motors.  Therefore, headers for a Chevy 360 would not fit on a Buick 350, etc.  My former Brother-in-law discovered that on his '71 Skylark 350.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Now, your question: the Caddy 502 was a Caddy motor only.  So, if you mean a "Crate GM 502," I would say that was a stroked 454 or other motor and not the same.
 
Do I win?
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 23, 2007, 10:35:41 AM
well YES for the most part, but the caddy motor was really 500 CI but is commonly confused.
 
from the 50's all the way to the late 80's Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Chevy, and Caddy used differant motors. sure some models here and there used Engines from other car company's(IE. Olds and Caddy) but most of them were diff.ok this is some info i got from www.Wikipedia.org (http://www.Wikipedia.org) concerning GM v8's
sorry it's a little long but has LOTS of info.
 

From the 1950s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950s) through the 1970s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s), each GM division had its own V8 engine family. Many were shared among other divisions, but each design is most-closely associated with its own division. Chevrolet had two different V8s, the big-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-block) and small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block). Today, there are only three V8 engines produced by GM: the Generation IV small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine) and big-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Big-Block_engine), and Cadillac's advanced DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC) V8, the Northstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Premium_V_engine#Northstar).
Cadillac V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine)
Type 51 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#L-Head) 314 in³ (5.1 L)
1928 341/346/322 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#L-Head) 341 in³ (5.6 L), 346 in³ (5.7 L), 322 in³ (5.3 L)
1949 331 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#OHV) 331 in³ (5.4 L), 365 in³ (6.0 L), 390 in³ (6.4 L)
1963 429 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#429) 429 in³ (7.0 L), 472 in³ (7.7 L), 500 in³ (8.2 L)
1977 L33/L35/L61/L62 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#425) 425 in³ (7.0 L), 368 in³ (6.0 L) V8-6-4
1949-1990 Oldsmobile Rocket V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine)
Generation 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#Generation_1) (303/324/371/394/215)
1953-1980 Buick V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine)
Buick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#Buick) (264/322)
1957-1966 Nailhead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#Nailhead) (364/400/401/425)
1961-1980 Buick "Small-Block" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#Buick_.22Small-Block.22) (215/300/340/350)
1954-1980 Pontiac V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine)
Pontiac/GMC V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine#Pontiac.2FGMC_V8) (287/288/316/336/347/370)
1959-1980 Pontiac V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine) (326/350/389/400/421/428/455)
1958-1983 GMC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_V8_engine)
GMC 336 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_V8_engine#336) 336 in³ (5.5 L) 90°
1960s GMC 637 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_V8_engine#637) 637 in³ (10.4 L) 60°
1961-1964 Buick/Oldsmobile/Pontiac 215 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#215) aluminum V8 (now Rover V8 engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine))
1954-1968 Chevrolet small-block V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine)
265 in³ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#265) Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1957-1962 283 in³ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#283) Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1967-1969 302 in³ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#302) Camaro Z28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro)
1963-1968 327 in³ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#327) Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1975-1976 4.3 L (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#4.3) Monza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Monza) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1969-2005 Chevrolet Small-Block 350 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#350)
ZQ3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#ZQ3)
1969-1972 L46 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L46) - High-compression
1970-1972 LT-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#LT-1) - High-performance
1971-1979 L48 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L48)
1973-1980 L82 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L82) - Modified 350
1974-1981 LM1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#LM1) - 350
1980-1987 LG4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#LG4) - California L48
1981 L81 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L81)
1982-1984 L83 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L83)
1985-1996 L05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L05)
1985-1991 L98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L98)
1958-present Chevrolet Big-Block engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine)
Generation 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine#_referred_to_as_.22Mark_II.22_Generation_1) (348/409)
1965-1996 Generation 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine#_referred_to_as_.22Mark_IV.22_Generation_2) (396/402/427/454)
1996-2001 L19 Vortec 7400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#7400) - 7.4 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
[/list]
GM later standardized on the later generations of the Chevrolet design:
LT5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine#LT5) - Corvette ZR-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1993-1997 Generation 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine) small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block) pushrod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrod) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) family:
LT1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine#LT1) - 5.7 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1998-present Generation 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine) small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block) pushrod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrod) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) family:
LS1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS1) - 5.7 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
1999-2004 LS1 C4B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS1) - 5.7 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) - Callaway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callaway_Cars_Incorporated) modified LS1 producing 300 kW (400 hp) used in HSV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Special_Vehicles) sedans and coupes
2001-2004 LS6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS6) - High-output LS1
LR4 Vortec 4800 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#4800) - 4.8 L
L33/LM4/LM7/L59 Vortec 5300 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#5300) - 5.3 L
LQ4 Vortec 6000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#6000) - 6.0 L
2005-present Generation 4 small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block) pushrod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrod) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) family:
L76 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#L76) - 6.0 L
2005-present L98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#L98) - 6.0 L
2005-present LS2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS2) - 6.0 L
2006-present LS4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS4) - 5.3 L transverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_engine) V8
2005-present LS7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS7) - 7.0 L High-performance Gen IV engine
2008-present LS3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS3) - 6.2 L
LH6/LY5/LC9 Vortec 5300 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#5300) - 5.3 L Vortec
LY6/L76 Vortec 6000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#6000) - 6.0 L Vortec
[/list]
Other GM V8 engines include the following:
Detroit Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) - 6.2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine#6.2)/6.5 L (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine#6.5) Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel)
Duramax Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duramax_V8_engine) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) family:
LG5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Duramax_engine#LG5) - 7.8 L Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel)
1992-present Premium V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Premium_V_engine) DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC)
LD8/L37/LH2 Northstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Premium_V_engine) - 4.6 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8)
Foamy_3022007-10-23 15:39:49
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2007, 01:14:44 PM
I stand by my remark is saying that the blocks were the same but they
were engineered differently, amd for the all the cookies Scott the only
GM car that got the 500 was the Eldorado with the exception in 75 when
all Cadillac models got the 500 and then it went back to the Eldorado
only in 76 and 77 was a downsize year where the 425 came in and I
believe the 500 was an order option of you wanted it.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 23, 2007, 01:35:48 PM
This is a Mopar Site (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)POLARACO2007-10-23 18:36:16
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 23, 2007, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: Snotty
Absolutely right, Moe.  But another fact - it was available in Plymouth only!
 
Chrysler's 350 is a trivia question I like to toss out at people.  (Did they make one?)  I do the same with these questions:  [color=#00ff00 size=3]YES  Forgot the year  late 50's[/color]
Did Chevy ever build a 302?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Yes  Camaro[/color]
What's the difference between a Chevy 400 and a Chevy 400?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]2 bolt or 4 bolt?  Big or small block?  Need to specify that. . all of the above[/color]
If Chrysler's 350 and Chevy's 348 are both big blocks, how come a Pontiac 455 and an AMC 401 are not?  [color=#00ff33 size=3]Not sure, But I would think space problems in AMC Bodies[/color]
Which Chrysler motor had the largest pistons?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]MMMMM It's not a 440 or 426[/color]
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
WHy won't headers for a Chevy 350 fit on a Pontiac 350?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Two completely different engines[/color]
Why is a Chrysler 318 physically larger than a Chevy 350?  318 Has deeper skirts to support the main caps Same question for a Chrysler 350 and an AMC 401?
 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 23, 2007, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
This is a Mopar Site (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
here ya go Steve.
hay guys this is an Exerpt(spelling??) from Wikipedia's list of Chrysler Engines. lets see if we can make a few corrections. other than the mistakes it's still good info.
 

Inline 8
Inline 8 cylinder - Chrysler's early flathead inline 8-cylinder 5.3L engine used on cars such as Airflows, DeSotos and Imperials. With side valves and aluminum pistons, this was a low-rpm engine that produced about 120hp.

Small block V8
Chrysler's small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) engines all derive from the classic A engine:
A small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_A_engine) - Chrysler's first small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8).
1964-present LA small-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine) - An evolution of the A engine, and extremely successful. The original LA design was in use until recently, as were V6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6) and V10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V10_engine) engines based on this design. Today, the only LA-derived engine design currently in use is the Viper V10. (273/318/340/360)
5.9 (360) - Used in the Coronet, Charger and Belvedere
PowerTech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_PowerTech_engine) - Chrysler's new 4.7 L V8 for Jeep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep)
5.7 L Hemi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine#5.7) - The modern Hemi, introduced in 2002.
Chrysler also inherited an engine from American Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Motors) (AMC):
Big block V8
Chrysler's big-block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-block) V8s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) fall into the following families:
Chrysler B engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_B_engine) (350/361/383/400)
1959-1978 Chrysler RB engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_RB_engine) (383/413/426W/440)
The 383 cubic inch RB Block was only available in 1959-1960 on the US built Chrysler Windsor and Saratoga.


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 23, 2007, 02:34:22 PM
OK, let me see how you did:
 
Chrysler's 350 is a trivia question I like to toss out at people.  (Did they make one?)  I do the same with these questions:  [color=#00ff00 size=3]YES  Forgot the year  late 50's[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]This was mentioned earlier - 1958, Plymouth only.[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Did Chevy ever build a 302?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Yes  Camaro[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Bingo!  Which year(s)?[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
What's the difference between a Chevy 400 and a Chevy 400?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]2 bolt or 4 bolt?  Big or small block?  Need to specify that. . all of the above[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]I was thinking small vs. big block, but the last comment is also correct![/color]
[color=#00ff00 size=3][/color] 
If Chrysler's 350 and Chevy's 348 are both big blocks, how come a Pontiac 455 and an AMC 401 are not?  [color=#00ff33 size=3]Not sure, But I would think space problems in AMC Bodies[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No!  Here's a common misunderstanding.  Unlike Mopar, Chevy, or Ford, Pontiac (and others) and AMC only had one block that was bored and stroked to different sizes.  Since Mopar had the LA and B/RB motors, and nothing could be interchanged between the two, one was considered "big" and the other "small."  It had/has nothing to do with cubes.  The AMC 390 and 401 blocks had a raised deck that the 290, 304, 343, and 360 blocks did not have, but they were not "bog blocks" as so many people errornously call them.  AMC did have another series of motors that were introduced in '55, the largest of which was a 327, but those motors were discontinued once the new motors were introduced.[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Which Chrysler motor had the largest pistons?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]MMMMM It's not a 440 or 426[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]It's the 400.[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No guess?[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
WHy won't headers for a Chevy 350 fit on a Pontiac 350?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Two completely different engines[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Bingo again![/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Why is a Chrysler 318 physically larger than a Chevy 350?  318 Has deeper skirts to support the main caps Same question for a Chrysler 350 and an AMC 401?
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Actually, it has everthing to do with math.  Your answer is probably perfectly acceptable, but a cylinder's volume has nothing to do with how physically large a motor is.  [/color]
 
Ta Daaaa!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 23, 2007, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: Snotty
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No guess?[/color]
 
well that ones easy. Ford made the 427SOHC for NASCAR. which the 428 Cobra Jet wasn't quite as "race bred"
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 23, 2007, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: Snotty
OK, let me see how you did:
 
Chrysler's 350 is a trivia question I like to toss out at people.  (Did they make one?)  I do the same with these questions:  [color=#00ff00 size=3]YES  Forgot the year  late 50's[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]This was mentioned earlier - 1958, Plymouth only.[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=3]I thought I read that, but ignored it[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Did Chevy ever build a 302?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Yes  Camaro[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Bingo!  Which year(s)?[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=3]I'm not a Chevy Guy.  But it seems to me it was 68 or 69[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
What's the difference between a Chevy 400 and a Chevy 400?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]2 bolt or 4 bolt?  Big or small block?  Need to specify that. . all of the above[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]I was thinking small vs. big block, but the last comment is also correct![/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=4]Gee thanks[/color]
[color=#00ff00 size=3][/color] 
If Chrysler's 350 and Chevy's 348 are both big blocks, how come a Pontiac 455 and an AMC 401 are not?  [color=#00ff33 size=3]Not sure, But I would think space problems in AMC Bodies[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No!  Here's a common misunderstanding.  Unlike Mopar, Chevy, or Ford, Pontiac (and others) and AMC only had one block that was bored and stroked to different sizes.  Since Mopar had the LA and B/RB motors, and nothing could be interchanged between the two, one was considered "big" and the other "small."  It had/has nothing to do with cubes.  The AMC 390 and 401 blocks had a raised deck that the 290, 304, 343, and 360 blocks did not have, but they were not "bog blocks" as so many people errornously call them.  AMC did have another series of motors that were introduced in '55, the largest of which was a 327, but those motors were discontinued once the new motors were introduced.[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=3]I still don't consider AMC as part of Chrysler.  Never paid attention to AMC as a result[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Which Chrysler motor had the largest pistons?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]MMMMM It's not a 440 or 426[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]It's the 400.[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=3]Learn something new every day.  I only know how to build them and fix them  To me, as you would say Scott, "WHO CARES!"  Just gimme 8 of 'em and let me get this job done  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No guess?[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=4]Does Foamy win a cookie?[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
WHy won't headers for a Chevy 350 fit on a Pontiac 350?  [color=#00ff00 size=3]Two completely different engines[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Bingo again![/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
Why is a Chrysler 318 physically larger than a Chevy 350?  318 Has deeper skirts to support the main caps Same question for a Chrysler 350 and an AMC 401?
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Actually, it has everthing to do with math.  Your answer is probably perfectly acceptable, but a cylinder's volume has nothing to do with how physically large a motor is.[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=4]I agree with that and thought about it when replying.  Wasn't sure what you were after.  It's all in what the manufacturer desired in the design, weight needed, a bunch of factors.  They get 572 out of a 360 now. . .[/color]
 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 23, 2007, 09:47:32 PM
" Drools over 572" ohh i like the sound of that.
by the way does anyone know the biggest cubic inches you can get from a LA318 block??
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2007, 06:55:32 AM
Ok what changes and improvments where made between the 360 and when the 340 came out?

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 09:52:05 AM
umm. i really don't know that one. didn't it have to do with Emissions??
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
Quote from: Snotty
WHy does a Ford 427 have more horsepower than a Ford 428? 
[color=#ff0000 size=3]No guess?[/color]
 
 
That's a 2/3rds Bingo!  You forgot the 427 "side oiler" that was in the 427 Cobra and Fairlane GT(A).  But your answer about the 428 is "spot on" as our British friends would say!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 10:40:21 AM
yea but you can't say Cobra 427 or Fairlane GTA without thinking of performance or racing.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Did Chevy ever build a 302?  [b
[color=#00ff00 size=3]Yes  Camaro[/color][/b]
[color=#ff0000 size=3]Bingo!  Which year(s)?[/color]
[color=#ffff00 size=3]I'm not a Chevy Guy.  But it seems to me it was 68 or 69[/color]
[color=#ff0000 size=3][/color] 
[color=#ffff00 size=4]  They get 572 out of a 360 now. . .[/color]
[/QUOTE]
 
The Chevy 302 was available in '67-'69.  I thought it was only '69, but a Chevy guy corrected me recently at a show.
 
I knew they were getting 440 out of a 360, but I did not know they had gotten as much as 572!  Wow!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 10:43:57 AM
hmm a 440CI LA. lol i could even put 440 badges on susan
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:45:37 AM
Quote from: Potatoe
Ok what changes and improvments where made between the 360 and when the 340 came out?
 
The 340 was introduced in '68 and tan until '73.  The 360 was a bored-out and lowered compression version of the 340.  However, the 360 has larger crank journals than the 340, so it can actually be built larger and stronger than the 340.  That's why a lot of magazines will say "buy a 360" whenever someone one asks about building a 318.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 10:47:45 AM
i always thought that the 340 had a 4.040 inch bore and a 3.313 inch stroke(same as 318 AND 273. while the 360 had a 4.000 inch bore and a 3.580 inch stroke.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
"
 
I don't know, but to quote a lot of magazines, "Why bother?  Get a 360 and go from there."
 
I love the 318, but it is often treated as the small-block version of the 383: people will trip over them in junk yards looking for something else.  Neither motor gets much respect.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:50:06 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
yea but you can't say Cobra 427 or Fairlane GTA without thinking of performance or racing.
 
I agree and wasn't disputing you.  But in the spirit of trivia, we need to remember that Ford made two 427s.
 
By the way, I wrote "GT(A)."  What's the difference between a GT and a GTA?
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 10:50:16 AM
yea and i love 318 cuz they are SO dman cheap and hard to kill. so when you FINALLY do kill one you can just go buy one for cheap at a junkyard. me and a friend of mine figured out that wth the prices of 318's at our local junkyard you can rebuild 3 318's on 1000$
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:51:49 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
hmm a 440CI LA. lol i could even put 440 badges on susan



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif)

I can't remember the magazine off the top of my head right now, but recently there was an article in a Mopar mag about building a 440 out of a 360.  Check it out!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 24, 2007, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
i always thought that the 340 had a 4.040 inch bore and a 3.313 inch stroke(same as 318 AND 273. while the 360 had a 4.000 inch bore and a 3.580 inch stroke.
 
You could be right.  It might have been strtoke versus bore.  I do know the 400 was a bored 383 - that's what I was working from.  And as you said earlier, it was done for lower emmisions, not power.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 24, 2007, 11:25:43 AM
Snottsso
 
I just saw that 572 in a magizine last night.  I said the same thing.  Wow  It was only a mere 9 grand too (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 11:35:28 AM
ohh 572. is that out of a LA block?? 
geez 9 grand thats alot. but then again thats alot of CI too.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2007, 11:56:57 AM
572 ==============================

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Dan Cluley on October 24, 2007, 07:37:24 PM
GT was a manual trans and GTA was an automatic?
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 24, 2007, 10:09:24 PM
i don't believe so. i've always thought that they both came with the Ford Toploader 4 speed manual. i think the GTA was the "closer to the Nascar Cup car"model
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: R. Dave Carr on October 25, 2007, 07:11:29 AM
A does stand for "automatic" on the GTA.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: R. Dave Carr on October 25, 2007, 07:14:59 AM
One other bit of info on Ford for you.... The 427 SOHC was a very precision assembled engine, the 428 was not so precision assembled, but was cheaper to produce.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Jacques on October 25, 2007, 07:31:47 AM
this is a very good book on stroking LA and magnum engines:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/sjak_brak/4sale/mopartechbooks/biginchSB.jpg)


Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 25, 2007, 10:05:33 AM
OHH i just got to have that.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 25, 2007, 10:15:16 AM
Quote from: D Cluley
GT was a manual trans and GTA was an automatic?
 
Another bingo!  The differences were as simple as that.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 25, 2007, 10:16:42 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
What a wimpy book!  It only goes to 476 inches!!!
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Jacques on October 25, 2007, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: Foamy_302
OHH i just got to have that.
another recommendation, and also more suitable when you're on a budget: How to Hot Rod Mopar Small Blocks. Beware to buy the newest edition, it has some 40 extra pages. And the book Chrysler Performance Engines is a must as well. These books together will help a lot in knowing which parts to look out for, even if youre on a budget. The "how to hot rod SB" is one of the books I sell most.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 25, 2007, 01:20:26 PM
i'll have to pick those up ASAP. i think my local Autozone has a copy. if not there are TONS ok bookstores near me
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Mike on October 25, 2007, 03:13:52 PM
well Scott I'm sure they will make a book to include 572 inches , its in the works I'm sure.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Jacques on October 26, 2007, 12:38:40 AM

Quote from: Foamy_302
i'll have to pick those up ASAP. i think my local Autozone has a copy. if not there are TONS ok bookstores near me
and if they dont have these titles, check on amazon. I bet you can get the books for less then $10 each.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: glen cyr on October 26, 2007, 05:17:40 PM
Backing up just a bit to the 428 CJ engine,...there were actually 2, 428 engines. In 1969 the 428 CJ was a big seller,however,if you checked off the box,and ordered the "optional" 3:91 or 4:30 gear ratio with Traction-loc diff.,you got the SCJ 428,and in Feb,you could order the "Drag-Pac" option for $147 and get the SCJ 428. This stood for Super Cobra Jet!. I had a Complete SCJ,4 spd w/9" rear with the 4:30 trac-loc in my 57 Ford that i once owned. The SCJ consisted of External oil cooler,w/ 427 "Lemans"capscrew rods,special crankshaft w/large damper (sort of like a 440-6 bottom end) and they were assembled and balanced by a special team of workers. The hp and torque #s stayed the same however,as the intake,heads etc. stayed the same!. The difference between the 360 and 340 also were many,although similar,the 340 fits in the same catagory as the 426 Hemi.That being,just like the 426,..there was never a low performance 340,only a detuned 340 in 72. And if the 426 would have been made in 72',...it,too would have been detuned.. And to back it up even further,..the 302 chev engine,was just a 283 crank in a 327 block,nothing spectacular there!. In fact,..if they would have given the 327 the same parts as the 302,they would have had more hp,because they would have had close to 10% more cubic inches,.......Just my thoughts on those subjects.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
Glen
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 27, 2007, 09:51:42 AM
Quote from: owatajrkiam
the 302 chev engine,was just a 283 crank in a 327 block,nothing spectacular there!. In fact,..if they would have given the 327 the same parts as the 302,they would have had more hp,because they would have had close to 10% more cubic inches.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
 
Glen, the 302 was built to Trans-Am specs - nothing larger than 305 c.i.d.  So it's not about what they cold have done, it's about what they did do to run in that class.  The '70 Challenger TA and 'Cuda AAR cars were sold to the public with 340s, but on the track they ran 305s.  The Chevy Z-28 with a 302 (only car to have that motor) was for the public what was being run on the track.  Could be why a 302 powered Z will draw more bucks today than a TA or AAR, even though there are far more of the formar cars than the latter.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 27, 2007, 09:30:55 PM
Quote from: Snotty
Tater, the LA motor originated in '64 with the introduction of the 273 small block.  That block was bored to 318 c.i.d. in '67, then 340 in '68, and finally 360 in '72.
 
 
I was looking at a '71 Newport in ebay today that was claiming to have a factory 360 in it.  You will notive what  said a few weeks back about the 360.  So, I grabed my trusty Chrysler Corp. Code Book and - viola - I was [color=#ff0000 size=6]WRONG![/color]  The 360 was, indeed, first offered in '71, not '72.
 
See, I correct my mistakes.  hey are few, but I do corect them.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 28, 2007, 05:03:19 AM
If you are using the trusty book i have. . it's wrong.  The 360 wasn't offered until 1973 in the Newport.  It also had electronic ignition standard then.
 
I know this from another source, dead now, and first hand experience. . .  Special circumstances make me remember this particular topic.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: glen cyr on October 28, 2007, 03:19:27 PM
They however,were planning on releasing the 360 in 71' as my 71' "J" heads are clearly marked 360 even though it was on a 340 block!. I would love to hear an explanation about that one also!. I do know that the 73' and 74' blocks were highly sought after from the Super Stock crowd as the webbs were very thick compared to later years!
 
Glen
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 28, 2007, 03:42:18 PM
http://www.nationalmoparts.com/parts.html (http://www.nationalmoparts.com/parts.html)
From Nigel's yard,a South Carolina '71 F3 360 with J heads.
CBarge2007-10-28 19:44:16
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 28, 2007, 03:55:17 PM
Up here in and around these parts,the '71 360's are sought after.Thick cylinder walls make for .060 overbore without comprimising strength.Add a 4" crank and you have a horny 402 C.I. stroker.Later casting are not as thick.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 28, 2007, 04:20:49 PM
Foamy. . .Parts car.
 
I never looked.  Did Dodge have the 360 in 71 as well?
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 28, 2007, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
If you are using the trusty book i have. . it's wrong.  The 360 wasn't offered until 1973 in the Newport.  It also had electronic ignition standard then.
 
 
A "K" in the VIN of a '71 indicates a 360 2bbl.  That's what this car had which was why I looked.  My '75 Chilton's book has it that way as well.  The 360 4bbl was not available until '74.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Steve on October 28, 2007, 05:05:38 PM
I know it was in Plymouth. . .I had one.  I was talking about the CHRYSLER line up.  I know it was not available until 73 in the Newport.  The rest were 383's.
 
I'm asking about the Polara in 71.  Was it available in Dodge then?  I know it was in 72.  Have 2 of those
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on October 28, 2007, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
I know it was not available until 73 in the Newport.  The rest were 383's.
 
 
Steve, my friend, you're wrong.
 
Open the Bible - Statndard Catalog of Chrysler - to the 1971 Chrysler section.  Now, read the first paragraph under the "Newport Royal" heading.
 
Don't feel bad; I was wrong too when I said they first appeared in '72.
 
We're never too old to learn new things. 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 28, 2007, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Foamy. . .Parts car.
 
 
yea Steve i saw it. and i want it lol. but hey there is a differance between WANT and NEED. hey wait a min i NEED another C just like i NEED that doba.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 13, 2007, 03:07:12 PM
hey guys what sizes were available for the /6??? and what were the differences throughout the years.
me and a friend of mine got talking and i realized that i don't know much about this engine. and Wikipedia doesn't offer much info
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 13, 2007, 03:59:33 PM
170,198,225
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 13, 2007, 04:05:02 PM
i always thought there was a 4th size..
did they change much thru the years?
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 13, 2007, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: Snotty
Quote from: POLARACO
I know it was not available until 73 in the Newport.  The rest were 383's.
 
 
Steve, my friend, you're wrong.
 
Open the Bible - Statndard Catalog of Chrysler - to the 1971 Chrysler section.  Now, read the first paragraph under the "Newport Royal" heading.
 
Don't feel bad; I was wrong too when I said they first appeared in '72.
 
Also listed on the Fuselage web site.
.BTW,by '73 the 383 was  disc'od for a year already and the 400 took its place.'71 last year for 383.
The entry level "Royal" came standard with the 360 2bbl in 1971
CBarge2007-11-13 21:11:25
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 14, 2007, 05:03:50 AM
are the ONLY differences in the RB a B blocks the deck height??
how hard is it to go from LA  to RB or B???.
Foamy_3022007-11-14 10:04:31
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on November 14, 2007, 07:13:12 AM
Quote from: CBarge
The entry level "Royal" came standard with the 360 2bbl in 1971
 
Yes, that is the car that is for sale on ebay under the heading "Jimmys Dead - I got his car!"  He is asking for a starting bid over 6 grand with no reserve.  He also lists the car as having 200,000 miles!  Whoa!
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on November 14, 2007, 07:18:34 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
are the ONLY differences in the RB a B blocks the deck height??
 
Yes, plus larger crank and pistons.  The RB is about two inches wider than a B.  The RB has a wider intake and longer distributor than the B.  Heads and exhaust manifolds are interchangable between the two.
 
To put a B/RB into a car where an A sat takes new motor mounts, different (larger) radiator and a Big Block specific transmission if going auto, and a BB bellhousing if going manual trans.  You will also need to change the driveshaft to a different length.
 
Finally, that tiny 2.32 rear that most M Bodies had will not work with a BB, so that will need to be changed as well.
 
In other words, what it takes is quite a bit of money.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 14, 2007, 10:28:01 AM
yea he has a little bit and is a VERY persistant guy. i figured about the Rad, and Motor mounts. so i'd need to get a A727 from a BB?? should he just get a parts car??
cuz he has a 69 440 Coronet with no interior and floors that runs and drives.
how much Fab work would be needed
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on November 14, 2007, 10:17:33 PM
 
Quote from: Foamy_302
yea he has a little bit and is a VERY persistant guy. i figured about the Rad, and Motor mounts. so i'd need to get a A727 from a BB?? should he just get a parts car??
cuz he has a 69 440 Coronet with no interior and floors that runs and drives.

I would think it would be easier to put a floor and seats in the Coronet IMHO.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 15, 2007, 05:58:35 AM
ohh the Coronet has more damage than that. the whole body is shot, no windows in the car. it's only use is for the drive train.lol
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on November 15, 2007, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
so i'd need to get a A727 from a BB??
 
Yes, the 727's bell is specific to small or big block motors due to the bolt pattern. 
 
As for fabricating, I don't know, but surely this has been done before.  I did find myself wondering is a BB would fit into an M's engine bay, or whether the shock towers would be too close?
 
You said you have a Coronet 440.  Is it a "Coronet 440" or a Coronet with a 440?  On the model "Coronet 440," the 440 does not indicate the size of the motor.  (Not trying to insult you, but I have found people who do not know this.  Most C 440s came with 318s.)
 
If your buddy wants good power but wants to avoind all of the hassle, a good built 360 would be a bolt-in.  You woud still need to swap the rear and perhaps think about going with a SB 727.
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: James Brown Jr, on November 15, 2007, 01:17:55 PM
Coronet with a 440 Commando. i think he just wants the BB tourque
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on November 16, 2007, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
i always thought there was a 4th size..
 
Sorry, kind of ignored this question.
 
No, there were only three sizes of slant 6 motors, but the 198 did come as an aluminum block for one year.  It was these motors that became the 199 HP "Hyper PAc" motor.  But, they were not good motors as the piston sleves rapidly deteriorated.  I saw one for sale at a Fling once. he guy was asing a grand, but another dude standing by said, "Who are you going to find that can fix those bad sleeves?"  An argument ensued.
 
People did put the 4 bbl intakes and manifolds on the 225.  Today, such a motor can scream if properly built!  They are excellent motors.  They were designed to run WITHOUT OIL!  NAme another that can!
 
The /6 continued into the early '90s as a truck motor when it was finally replaced by Mopar's 3.9 V-6, a 318 minus two cylinders.  In the 80's you could find slants with 2 bbl carbs which was the only time other that the Hyper PAc motors when a slant came with something other than a 1 bbl.
 
Hope this helps. 
Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: firedome on June 15, 2008, 03:29:42 AM
I dragged up this thread to correct one small error regarding the
earliest "B" blocks... in 1958 the quiz favorite Mopar 350 was
available not ONLY in Plymouth but also in the DeSoto FireSweep model
(only - 'Domes and 'Flites were 361s) - I have one, and the brochure
details it as well, and also in Dodge.

Title: Difference in Engines
Post by: Snotty on June 17, 2008, 10:10:24 AM
Somewhere is this or another post that was mentioned.  I came across it looking for a journal size or something, and was surprized to see the 350 listed for DeSoto.
 
Heck, I just learned that Mercury had a 383 for two years!  It was mentioned in Hemming's Classic Car.  I thought it was an error so looked it up.
 
I would have lost money on that bet!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
 
Funny, like te 350, it was not shared accross the FoMoCo board.  Neither Lincoln nor Ford got it.  The 50's was a strange time for motor building.