MoparFins

Techical Discussions => General Tech- - BRAKES => Topic started by: Steve on March 29, 2008, 09:32:26 AM

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on March 29, 2008, 09:32:26 AM
How can you test a brake booster in the field with minimum tools?
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on March 29, 2008, 09:38:00 AM
By saying minimum tools, I assume you don't have a Mityvac handy...  Do you notice a change in the engine's behavior (RPM drop, rough idle) when the brakes are applied?  I.E., severe vacuum leak...
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 29, 2008, 12:57:42 PM
If it is the 5TH thats having trouble--I am not surprised.
I had to replace my booster in the Dippy.
Boosters are a common problem on M bodies.
My symptoms were rough idle-almost stalling when applying the brake.
When applying light pressure you can hear a hiss,and releasing the pedal it may pppfft.
Apply some liquid soap/water to the shaft/bellows under the dash and see if it bubbles with the engine running and applying/releasing the pedal.This is where it will most likely leak.
A spray pump bottle is perfect.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Brian on March 29, 2008, 08:27:05 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
How can you test a brake booster in the field with minimum tools?
 
Did you find a booster in the middle of a field....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2008, 06:16:52 AM
Actually. . .this is supposed to be an educational post and a traffic promoter.  I know what to do, I created a conversation piece here
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on March 30, 2008, 06:49:07 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
How can you test a brake booster in the field with minimum tools?
 
Ye ask a question, Ye get an answer...
 
Good idea just the same.  Much better than a topic about how flatulent we can be (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2008, 06:53:16 AM
I could be asking about the Flux Capacitor in Polaraco. . . . .
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on March 30, 2008, 06:56:23 AM
Keep me posted on that...  There is something in 1998 I'd like to fix!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on March 30, 2008, 07:33:56 AM
There's stuff in A LOT of years I'd like to fix!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
ardog2008-03-30 12:37:20
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2008, 07:59:27 AM
Quote from: ardog
There's stuff in A LOT of years I'd like to fix!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
That's what this thread is all about.  Now you'll know
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 30, 2008, 08:29:32 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I could be asking about the Flux Capacitor in Polaraco. . . . .

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on March 30, 2008, 12:05:46 PM
Well how do you test a booster in the field with minimal tools??
Enquiring minds want to know!!!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on March 30, 2008, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: ardog
Well how do you test a booster in the field with minimal tools??
 
First, throw a rock at it.  If it doesn't respond, walk towards said booster and check for signs of life.  Once upon said booster look for pedal rod, to determine it's origin.  Remember that this booster may still charge if provoked, so be careful.  If you are bitten DO NOT call 911, as they will NOT believe you and laugh hysterically.  Call Polaraco, he can aid in your bleeding agony.  This will be a GOOD booster, and just might hold vacuum!  Polaraco will e-mail adequate medical dressings to your location and hope you know how to administer them.  Marlin Perkins can now rest in peace...
 
(http://moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2008, 04:01:10 PM
Guys. . we're getting off topic.  This is where it is NOT supposed to happen
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/10.jpg)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on March 30, 2008, 04:13:53 PM
My '68 NYer had a bad booster.  I plugged the line with a AAA battery at the intake.  Before this I observerved a terrible vacuum loss whenever the brakes were applied.  This was a disc brake car and at this time there were NO parts available to fix the problem.  I drove it with the vac port plugged until the inspection ran out.  I then found my '66 NYer and enjoyed it's reliability for over ten years...  Four-wheel drums were just fine in my opinion!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 30, 2008, 05:19:57 PM
Back on topic.....
This next tip applies to all model of Mopars with the the style of booster we are all familiar with (not the bellows type of the '50's  early 60's)
Check the valve at the booster that the vacuum line goes into.
Sometimes dirt or condensation can cause it to malfunction.
Also with an improperly running engine that backfires,it can blow out the check valve-or damage it innards.
Result? (This happened to me)
Major vacuum leak,engine runs like a bag of hammers and no power assist.  I had to pick up the pieces and glue them together,wrap a rubber band around it,jam it back into the booster to get home.
CBarge2008-03-30 22:20:21
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on March 30, 2008, 06:20:19 PM
Whats the answer Steve!?!?!?!?!?!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 30, 2008, 07:54:20 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
How can you test a brake booster in the field with minimum tools?

Standard I.Q testing has proven futile.....

Remember suck....don't blow......


OK, 3rd times the charm....

Vacuum can be applied to a unit in the field with either the car's own
engine running, or with a MightyVac hand operated pump attached to an
old vacuum reservoir cannister pirated from a luxury car or make one
from a unused gallon paint can with a soldered nipple and a check valve
(available from pet stores for aquarium pumps) on top.

Test for vacuum leak in the released position: Apply vacuum to the unit through the check valve and then stop. Apply the brake pedal several times. Each application should provide less and less pedal travel following normal depletion of reserve vacuum. The number of applications on reserve vacuum assist will depend on how hard the pedal is pressed and how far the pedal moves. If the unit has no assist, it leaks.

Test for unit operation: After depleting the reserve vacuum, place light foot pressure on the pedal and start the engine (or apply vacuum to the booster again). If the booster is working properly the pedal will fall away slightly.

Test for vacuum leak in the holding position: After applying vacuum to the unit, hold a moderately heavy load on the pedal. After 1 minute, release and apply the pedal several times. If there is no assist during this test when there was normal operation in the first test, then there is an air leak within the unit. Some units will leak air internally if the pedal load is light. This is normal.



Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 01, 2008, 02:04:54 AM
Is it possible for a booster to be weak?  The one in the convertible does not appear to have any leaks, it does apply boost, but it takes more pressure than any other car I've dealt with (not the over-boosted mopar brakes, I keep hearing about)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on April 01, 2008, 05:45:29 AM
Dan, when you put on the dual master cylinder you didn't change the booster did you?
I wonder if that is why. My car stops with very little foot pressure.
ardog2008-04-01 10:46:02
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 02, 2008, 09:42:41 PM
I replaced the booster at some point (don't remember if it was before or after the MC switch) but from what I can tell all the drum brake cars 65-68 used the same one.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Mark on April 10, 2008, 05:26:49 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
How can you test a brake booster in the field with minimum tools?
 
 
I would ask it simple yes/no or true/false questions, they're not too bright ya know....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Bill Mounteer on April 10, 2008, 06:56:09 PM

Quote from: CBarge
If it is the 5TH thats having trouble--I am not surprised.
I had to replace my booster in the Dippy.
Boosters are a common problem on M bodies.
My symptoms were rough idle-almost stalling when applying the brake.
When applying light pressure you can hear a hiss,and releasing the pedal it may pppfft.
Apply some liquid soap/water to the shaft/bellows under the dash and see if it bubbles with the engine running and applying/releasing the pedal.This is where it will most likely leak.

After reading this a couple of times, I'm confused, considering any leak will be a vacuum leak, why would liquid soap/water application bubble? Wouldn't it just suck up the soap?

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 05, 2008, 04:04:30 AM
Well I'm glad this thread was started.   
 
As you may have seen in my other post when I had the car running the other day I pressed on the break pedal and pretty sure I heard a pop and then the pedal went right to the floor.   I pumped it a few times with no resistance and right to the floor each time.
 
It has been suggested I may have blown the booster membrane.  If so how much of a project is this going to be and is the mebrane an item I can get from the auto store.  Also I have tools but no specality ones.
 
My other reason for thinking this is I have no break fluid leaking under the car or around any of the wheels.
 
I figure this thread will also help in the event I'm wandering in a field too.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 05, 2008, 04:57:38 AM
I dunno who told you a bad booster causes that. . .
 
That's a ruptured hydraulic line, or a bad master itself.  Look to see if the master is still full.  If it is, the master is bad.  If it's empty, look for the puddles under the car.  That's a single master so it's not too difficult to diagnose.
 
How far are you from Clearwater?  I have a Mopar guy down there who can fixer up for ya.  If you go to his place, you can see my 62 300H
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 05, 2008, 05:35:41 AM
I'll check they cylinder tonight.  Looks pretty simple.  Take off a screw remove cap and look.
Clearwater is about 2 to 2 1/2 hours from Ft. Myers. 
I'd love to see the 300H.  I'm hoping once I get her road ready to find shows and start going. 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 05, 2008, 09:08:41 AM
Now I'm able to get pics on here watch out.  Here's the master and booster for your review.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Chrysler004.jpg)
 
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Chrysler005.jpg)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on May 05, 2008, 02:09:53 PM
Again I ask you, How does one check a power brake booster in the field with minimum tools??????
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 05, 2008, 02:44:13 PM
see now this thread is interesting. cuz i've got soem problems with mine. now should i be able to place my foot to the floor??? and my brakes are VERY touchy. and i've got quite the vacume leak i can't find.

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 05, 2008, 02:55:09 PM
POLAR-ARCO, that was me, thinking Chrysler300 has more than 1 problem in his brakesystem.

Chrysler300,
fyi, that looks like a KelseyHayes booster-unit.


Foamy,
Normally, a brakebooster-membrane failure will not cause your pedal to go down to the floor. It will only cause a hard to operate brakepedal, kinda like any other car with non-power assisted brakes.
This is only the case when you have a mastercylinder-failure, or brake-cylinder or brakeline fitting failure somewhere, where you loose pressure.

'Touchy brakes' can caused by drumbrake-lining with sharp leading edges, which immediatly want to grab the drum when they are applied.
Try grinding a 45 degree angle on the brakelining and see if the problem is solved.


Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 05, 2008, 04:04:45 PM
All True Herman

I see now.

I was going with the "Pop" he heard when he applied the brake.  That would be the most logical first.  That's why I told him to look for the puddles of fluid first.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on May 06, 2008, 03:38:38 AM
Hey JB do your brakes go to the  floor then get better as you pump the pedal? If so then it is the master cylinder.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 06, 2008, 05:27:32 AM
I climbed under the car last night and found all the lines and saw no leaks.  I then went to the master and took the top screw in the middle of the gold plate out.  The cap would not come off easily so I stopped and felt around it.   If feels like it's on the same way a beer bottle cap is on.  I left it till I got word from ya'll.  I'm thinking if I pop it off she's a not gonna go back on.   

So my question is should it come off easy and has just corroded together?
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 06, 2008, 05:47:07 AM
It 'should' come off easy once the bolt is loosened.
The gasket in between is most likely just sticky.



Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2008, 06:31:13 AM
Give the edges a tap with a screw driver handle.  It should come off.
 
AT LAST!  A NOVICE WHO FOLLOWS INSTRUCTIONS! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)  Good Job
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 06, 2008, 07:18:23 AM
I figure it's better to go nice and slow to avoid making more out of a problem.
 
Now figuring the gasket's seen it's last days is this a part I can pick up at the auto store or will I need to start hunting one down here?  
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 06, 2008, 07:51:26 AM
These gaskets are pretty durable usually, but should be hard to find or make yourself in case it tears.



Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 06, 2008, 10:20:34 AM
well they dio get better as i pump the pedal. and the rear drums are almost new(i think the calipers are sticking in the front
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
That usually means the rear brakes need adjustment or there is a dot of air in the lines.
 
Jack up the front wheels and spin the tires by hand.  They shoud spin pretty free with just a bit of resistance.  You should only need one hand.  2 handed means you need to look into the calipers.  Those calipers don't get stuck in the guides as a rule.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 06, 2008, 01:15:43 PM
Well they mystery is solved gang.  In order to have leaks you need fluid. 
 
I did as directed.  Took out the bolt.  Gently tapped the cap and she poped up ever so gently and easily.  The gasket was stuck so I used a sharp edge putty knife and was able to get it off with out loss.   Below is what greeted me. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)  So now I got to take this off and recondition.  Is this where I need PB Blaster for the rusted bolts holding it on?    What kind of project am I now looking at in terms of brake lines?  Able to clean or have to be replaced?
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/MasterBrakecylinder004.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/MasterBrakecylinder003.jpg)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 06, 2008, 01:43:27 PM
Wow... That's a bad case of rustysludge...!

I think you're looking at a complete brake-system overhaul here.
New mastercylinder and brakecylinders and distribution-block. You might be able to flush the brake lines when the cylinders are removed, but new ones would be better of course.

If I were you, this would be a perfect time to upgrade the brake-system to a dual (front/rear) brakesystem. (Must safer aswell if there's ever a failure in the system)



Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2008, 01:47:30 PM
What the. . .  .
 
Good Gaud. . . That's loaded with water. 
 
Right off the bat, the fluid hole is plugged.  Looking at that, I have to say you definitely have to start with the master.
 
Hard to say what's below the master in the lines.  But looking at that, I may suggest you get it picked up by a good local shop and let him do the whole system over.  Most of the parts are readily available.  This is going to be way over your head I am sorry to say.
 
Look for a shop with a good reputation.  Stay away from the chains.  Sometimes a long time tire dealer is a safe bet too.  See if you can find someone who carries an AARP card (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif).  In your position it's hard to know who is a BSer and who isn't.  I have an expression. . .There are mechanics and then there are MECHANICS.  The only guy I know is 2 1/2 hours from you.  But if you want, I'll ask him. . . . He has a flat bed
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 06, 2008, 02:22:33 PM
Sounds like I'm looking at some serious jack.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)
 
I agree on finding someone I can count on.  Would your friend be able to give a cost to redo this just from what I've posted.  Maybe with some luck he'd know someone here in Ft. Myers?  If push comes to shove I'll use him.   Saddly it won't be something I can do anytime real soon if it a few grand to redo.
 
Like my grandmother use to say if you can fix it with money don't worry it'll get fixed.  It's the things money can't fix like a sick child you worry about.
 
Well now I can concentrate on the carb and getting her running smoothly for when she's got her new shoes.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 06, 2008, 02:27:44 PM
I should have asked in the other post, what would have caused that and how do I prevent it from happening in the future?
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2008, 03:34:18 PM
Quote from: Chrysler300
I should have asked in the other post, what would have caused that and how do I prevent it from happening in the future?
 
That's a good question
 
Looks like someone put water in there for the lack of break fluid. . . Unless the car was submerged
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Matt Aker on May 06, 2008, 05:53:31 PM
OK...  I'm the eternal optimist!
 
Wipe out that master and bleed it with fresh brake fluid and the system line disconnected from the front with the port PLUGGED.  Do it several times before reconnecting the line to the rest of the system.  This is BENCH BLEEDING!  CLEAN is GOOD! 
 
Once clean brake fluid is found here you will need to move to each wheel cylinder individually and crack each bleeder screw loose and bleed them, RR LR RF LF in this order.  If the system was run dry this will take several pints from my experience on a similar Chrysler...
 
It's NOT hard, just time consuming!
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 07, 2008, 03:32:47 AM
Time is no problem.   I decided the other week when I found this site it was time to stop putting off the car as a hobby/project for fun.  Of course I make this decision as we get ready to remodel our house. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
I bought the tech manual and it shows how to take apart the cylinder, and brake's at the wheels.  It dosen't look to tough but again I'm just starting out.  I'm thinking there is no rush so if I take my time and work on one section at a time and with you guys help I could  get er done.
 
My thought is to take off the line to master and see if anything went in it and if so how bad.  As someone suggested spary carb cleaner in all the metal tubes and blow out with compressed air.  I will then use a squeeze bottle to run brake fluid through them for the final prep.   The metal pipes appear to be aluminium so I figure no rust through or holes in them just old fluid if anything.
 
Then look at the rubber hoses.  Thinking I might as well replace them while doing this or is there no need to unless cracked.  None of them appear to be cracked and look to be in good shape.   Take of the wheel cylinders and make sure the seals are still good and put back on.
 
Next have the master cleaned up but how.  Sand blast, soak in brake fluid hand clean and hand sand off rust.  I figure since it's still wet the seals and those parts may be ok but if not I can get them  at an auto parts store.
 
Will this have caused any damage to the booster?
 
Am I just kidding myself and this is way more than I'm thinking?   I did have a dream last night about fixing this and having success.
 
Good gosh I'm a gonner.  Dreaming about fixing a car (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 07, 2008, 04:01:54 AM
If you do want to keep the old single chamber mastercylinder I would just buy a new one.
They don't cost that much I recall and besides, you're handling one the most important parts of the car here.

It looks like the 'pop'-sound way have come from the MC afterall, as it was 'dry' when being applied.
Perhaps the booster is still be alright.



Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 07, 2008, 06:02:00 AM
The more I think about it and with some good advice I'm leaning back towards having someone do this.   This is after all the most important part of the who kit and kaboodle.
 
I may be able to have someone in Clearwater work on it but that's  2 1/2 hours away.  Anyone know anybody in Ft. Myers Florida I could use?
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2008, 07:52:15 AM
Home Plate is your first choice. . . .
 
Chris is an AARP card totin, Geritol drinkin, old Mopar Guy.
 
Man, do we have some war stories.  He'll do you well.  But insist he put his own sorry, lazy ass on it himself.  You can quote me. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
POLARACO2008-05-07 12:53:02
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 07, 2008, 10:22:53 AM
well guys thats a nasty mess if you ask me.
and my brakes rub BAD. If i let it idle at 25MPH i can come to a stop after a 75 or so feet.
maybe Calipers are a next option for me(other that the wiring problems underhood)
 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 08, 2008, 03:56:59 PM
I just can't get the idea of working on these myself out of my mind.  The thing stopping me from doing it myself is replacing the steel tubes along the frame and body.  Is there a trick to this?  I'm not sure I see how these slide in and out.
 
Will a shop redoing them put the steel back in or is it replaced with rubber tubes?   It they are going to just throw in rubber tubes then I'm really leaning towards doing it myself.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Herman on May 08, 2008, 11:29:31 PM
I want to do it yourself, just do it. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
A brake-shop will use steel lines. But using copper will work aswell, just make sure it's installed vibration free.

Doing it yourself with steel or copper-lines can be done, but you'll need a Good brakeline tubingbender and doubleflare-tool for this.

But you can somewhat check if your lines need to be replaced by disconnecting one end, and spraying brakeclean in the other end and see what comes out.

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 09, 2008, 08:23:10 AM
NO copper lines for high pressure brake line.....only double flared seamless steel or stainless steel!!! I can't stress that enough. If you don't want to or can't make your own lines, go to a reputable shop. Midas and similar shops do brakes and have to follow all of the rules or else they could get in legal trouble, so I would trust a name shop.

Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 09:56:03 AM
Sheeesh Herman. . .
 
Never use copper or compression fittings on brake lines.  They are steel only with a double flare.  All it takes is one good shot on the peddle to blow it apart.  Remember, an automotive brakes system can see up to 45,000 PSI.  Copper and compression is rated to 3000 burst.
 
Tom
You'll have to get under the car and trace all the brake lines down the body and inspect them for rust.  If you see a line with allot of caked on rust/kinked, or looks like it has an oil stain, replace it.  Chances are, you won't have too much rust in that climate.  Brake hoses are a definite. 
 
There is more than just brake lines.  There are wheel cylinders.  You may be able to still buy new ones.  I am pretty sure the shoes are still available and the spring and self adjuster kits.
 
The list of tools is short.  Let's start a new thread on that under brakes.  we're getting off topic here
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 12:40:55 PM
Agree on the new post.  I'll start that after we wrap up the engine and distributor stuff.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 21, 2008, 07:17:39 AM
I stopped by a shop yesterday where I see them working on a lot of older cars.   Very nice looking ones I might add.  They just redid a General Lee Charger, are working on a 68 Challenger and have experience with MOPAR.
 
The guys say they can look over the car and let me know a cost to repair.  They said they can inspect  the steel lines and see if they need to be replaced.  More than likely they said they just need to be cleaned out and they can do this.   If they need to be replaced they can put the lines in and pretty confident where they are from the factory. 
 
They also told me since they work on a lot of older cars they also have a supplier where they can get the correct parts for the older cars.
 
So my question is what should I ask to see if these guys know what they are doing?  Also if I have them do the work what should I make sure to ask them to do?  Someone mentioned something about anti vibration mounts.
 
I'm trying to keep the car as stock as I can.
 
Thanks
 
Oh one other thing they didn't make it feel like they were trying to get me in the shop just to make a buck.
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on June 17, 2008, 06:42:08 PM
I am the new guy on the block, and this is my first technical post, I believe.  I am presently working on replacing brake lines on a 1963 Chrysler New Yorker, and I have lots of brake experience, having done this for a living for many years.  Replacement of the brake lines is worth doing even if they look good.  An engine that stops, just leaves you stranded on the side of the road.  If the brake lines fail, then the consequences can be a bad crash that can lead to injury or fatality.  Replace the brake line, and all the rubber hoses.  It is cheap insurance.  Also, have all wheel cylinders rebuilt or replaced, along with the master cylinder.  Then if you are still using a single master cylinder with all drum brakes, have the system filled with DOT-5 Silicone Brake Fluid.  It is on the expensive side, but you will never have to worry about rust, or other problems associated with DOT-3 or DOT-4 glycol based fluids.  Unless you are racing this car, you will not have a problem with the Silicone Based Brake Fluid.  The glycol based fluids have an affinity to absorb water, and for that reason, they must be changed every 2 years to avoid problems.
Junk2008-06-17 23:48:24
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Tom Atkinson on June 19, 2008, 06:19:58 AM
Might be in luck on the brakes.   I had Kaw-Liga running in the garage last Friday when a neighbor I know came up and started talking with me about her.  We got to talking about the car needing brakes and he said he use to work on these for fun and knew all about the brakes.  I asked if after I get the house remodel done would he like to help me with this and he said he would.   
 
So if all goes will with the remodel in 4 months I'll be tackling the job with this guy.  
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2008, 12:55:45 PM
Paul
 
That was a very good response.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
 
Tom
 
POLARACO2008-06-19 17:56:57
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on June 20, 2008, 06:15:59 PM
In the first picture, you can see the middle of the brake cylinder, where the water lay at the bottom of the brake line inlet, causing rust and deep pitting. Surprisingly, the rest of the cylinder had no rust or pitting, and was a candidate for rebuilding. Where the pitting was located, is outside of the area that the brake cylinder cups travel, so it will cause no harm. In the rest of the pictures, you can see the "grime" that covered the brake cylinder internal parts. The spring with its cup expanders are in the middle of the cylinder, and a rubber cup goes at each end. Then the metal pistons go into each end of the cylinder, with the flat surface contacting the face of the rubber cups. Then the end boots (not shown) are installed on the cylinder ends, completing the wheel cylinder assembly.
(http://www.postimage.org/PqkxMpA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqkxMpA)
(http://www.postimage.org/aVKiyJS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVKiyJS)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxQxZBA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxQxZBA)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxQydzr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxQydzr)
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 15, 2008, 04:36:43 PM
Did my last posts kill this thread?  I feel like I was reading a book, and someone stole the last chapter out of it.. What was the final resolve of the brake problem?  Did you repair this yourself, or did you pay someone else to do it.
 
As a caution to everyone else, I purchased replacement wheel cylinders at a National auto parts store to rebuild my braking system.  Much to my disgust, today, I found that one of the new cylinders is already leaking, and the car is still in the garage..  The cylinder was manufactured in China, so I have ordered all new cylinders from another National brand store, that I know carries quality parts.  I just hope that what they will be supplying me with is an American made product.  I am totally fed up with all the crap that is coming from China that is marginal at best.  I have to depend on the brakes to stop the car, and I will not compromise my safety. 
I also have a brake booster question..... is there a spacer that goes between the master cylinder and the brake booster on a Midland Ross 10 screw brake booster.  The problem that I have encountered is that the screw stop in the back of the master cylinder  that keeps the piston from pushing out, hits the plastic breather filter plate on the brake booster.  You can see a small dot on the white plastic in the picture, where this screw is hitting.  If there is a spacer, might someone have a spare that they would be willing to part with?  Thanks Junk.....
Junk2008-07-15 21:37:17
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2008, 05:06:09 PM
That's good stuff Paul.  Thanks!
 
Yeah, we've talked about those chinese wheel cylinders before.  Bummer.  I've had to re-replace a few things on Polaraco because of poor quality too.  In particular Moog bushings.
 
Not to worry about killing the thread.  It's summer time and vacation season.  Most people are out working on their cars or flippen a few.  Can't blame them.  Every site is slow right now.  If you noticed, even your Spam Email is low.
 
Glad to hear from you again
 
Steve
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 15, 2008, 07:26:11 PM
It may be slow because it is summertime, but this car is scheduled to make its debut at the Professional Car Society International Meet that is being held in Joisey the first week of August.  I can take it there without a radio, wheel covers, etc, but it is very hard to drive it there without brakes.  I need to find the answer to the spacer question, and a spacer ASAP.  Without brakes, I can't drive it around town to check out its reliability.  After all, it is a Chrysler!!!!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)  Seems that what ever can go wrong with a car is going wrong with this car.  I have replaced everything in the braking system, except for the backing plates and drums.  They were durable enough to last through the incompetence of the last rebuild. 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2008, 04:27:57 AM
Where in Jersey?  Maybe the Mob can meet up with you.
 
No I was talking about the site attendance being slow. 
 
I can appreciate you want your car done for that.  Kinda annoying when you have to do the same job twice.  Especially when you are working a deadline.
 
I'm going to Bear Mt. Next week for a cruise in and picture shots of Polaraco next to Savvy Savoy.  That will be Wednesday Night.  Are you near there?  It's about an hour 1/2 from me
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 16, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
I ordered replacement wheel cylinders from NAPA, because someone told me that NAPA had the right wheel cylinders.  They arrived today, and they were the same Chineese junk as what I had gotten at Advance Auto.  The only difference was that at NAPA, they were $36 and at Advance, they were  under $20.  So much for NAPA selling quality parts.  I guess that they think that a high price will give the appearance of quality, when in reality, it isn't quality at all, in my opinion.  I am continueing my search tomorrow with some of the Chrysler vendors on line. 
I am not certain where Bear Mountain is, but if it is in upstate New York, I am not close to it.  I will post more details of the NJ meet when I have more time.  thanks Junk...
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2008, 05:55:21 PM
Call my buddy Ray at 973-366-1991 or 1994.  Danons Auto Parts.  He's in Dover, NJ.
His name is Ray Danon (Like Dannon Yogert)  When He identifies himself, tell him he is a "Cocka Roacha"  and Steve H sent you.  (That's the pass word)
 
Tell him what you want, he'll get them for you, usually in a day.  Then tell him to get them to me and I will UPS them to you.
 
Specify you want US Made.  He'll know.  I think those are the only ones he sells.  If I remember, he charged me $30.00 each.
 
When you are done with that, PM me your address so I can get them to you.
 
The man is 74 years old and a dynamo.  Real nice guy, been in the business for over 40 years.  I told him he cant retire until I get my 67 and 65 done. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Steve
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 17, 2008, 06:22:55 AM
I found a pair of NOS brake cylinders on eBay for $65 and $10 shipping.  They were in MA, so I should have them tomorrow by USPS.  Thanks for the information about your friend.  I will keep this in mind if I run into other problems in the future. 
If anyone needs a booster rebuilt, I can tell  you that Booster Dewey ( http://www.boosterdeweyexchange.com/ (http://www.boosterdeweyexchange.com/) ) is a very honest guy.  He told me exactly how to check my booster and to only send it for repair if I can confirm that it is bad.  Suggested making sure that all the rest of the system if working properly before condemning the booster..  Cost for rebuilding is aproximately $125 plus return shipping, depending on conditiion of old booster. 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Steve on July 17, 2008, 01:00:35 PM
NOS as original 1963?  better rebuild them then.  You'll have the same fate.
 
Ray said baout 30 Bucks each, brand new.  Rayobestes  That's all I use.  He has a few of different styles in stock.  I warmed him up for you
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 17, 2008, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
NOS as original 1963?  better rebuild them then.  You'll have the same fate.
 
 
A local auto parts store ordered in a pair of Raybestos, and when I checked the cylinder in the box, they were the same made in China junk as everyone else was selling. 
 
I will disassemble and clean, install new rubber cups, reassemble with brake assembly lube, and install them.  Using DOT 5 silicone brake fluid, and I shouldn't have any issues ever again.  I did find a place that will  resleeve the old cylinders with brass inserts today.  Very imformative website.... http://www.brakecylinder.com/index.htm (http://www.brakecylinder.com/index.htm)  I will be sending them my master cylinder to have it redone. 
Title: How do you test a brake booster???
Post by: Paul on July 20, 2008, 05:50:04 AM
The correct one is on the right, and the one that they installed is on the left...
 
(http://www.postimage.org/gxA9JqA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxA9JqA)