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Techical Discussions => General Tech => Topic started by: Dan Cluley on January 16, 2008, 02:11:07 AM

Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on January 16, 2008, 02:11:07 AM
Looking for suggestions/advice concerning one of the vans at work.  It is a ’97 Dodge 3500 with 5.9 V8
 
The last week or two it has been randomly stalling or nearly stalling when idling.  It is fine 90% of the time, but every once in a while either while stopped or when moving but foot off the accelerator the RPMs will drop noticeably, something in the exhaust rattles and if you don’t give it some gas the oil pressure drops.  It will sometimes pick back up and be fine, or it will just stall.  Touch the gas pedal and RPMs pick right up and everything is fine.
 
For some time it has also been hard to start on occasion.  It will crank fine, but not start until you depress the accelerator part way (not all the way, like it’s flooded, but just giving it a little gas)
 
The owner was asking if I had any idea what was wrong.  Since the check engine light is on, I suggested taking it and getting the codes read, which he had already done.
 
Oxygen sensor #1 in bank #1 is reading too rich
Random cylinder misfires
Misfire in cyl #1
Misfire in cyl #2
Misfire in cyl #3
 
On the surface, it would seem like the O2 sensor is going bad, but why does it only happen at idle?
 
I just don’t know enough about computer control or fuel injection to do more than make guesses. 
 
 
 
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on January 16, 2008, 03:50:23 AM
when the engine speed falls off, do you hear a bunch of air sucking in the air cleaner?  If not, the IAC could be going bad on you.  But that doesn't explain the cylinders being rich
 
Has it been using oil?
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on January 16, 2008, 05:16:09 PM
Actually you can definitely hear air sucking.  Almost sounds like it's gasping.

It uses some oil, but leakage may well account for it.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on January 16, 2008, 05:35:58 PM
Sounds like you have a vacuum leak. 
 
The intake Plenum has a plate on the bottom of it which is bolted in.  They are prone to leakage.  There is an upgrade gasket for it and bolt kit for it.  makes sense because you are loosing the front cylinders.  It will suck some oil in that way too.  If the leak is in the very front of the engine, there isn't a ton of oil splashing around right there.  So you won't see too much oil going away.  Do a vacuum reading.  It should be around 17 something at idle
 
Had the same problem with Polaraco.  I put that Hughs Intake on it and solved a bunch of problems and got better mileage.  But you eliminate the EGR valve.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on January 23, 2008, 10:58:57 AM
I'd go with hte codes and get that O2 sensor changed and then see what you get.
 
There's a reason for the check engine light.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on January 24, 2008, 04:02:24 PM
Any idea where exactly that sensor is located? 
 
At this point, I'm 90% sure it's just stuff built up in the fuel injection system.  Got a can of Throttle body cleaner,  and using that has made a definite improvement. 
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on January 24, 2008, 05:07:24 PM
Oh Snotty. . .You're guessing
 
A bad O2 won't cause it to miss on 3 cylinders.  Especially since they are grouped together. in the front of the motor.
 
Check the vacuum first. 
 
There are 2- O2 sensors on the ODP2 system.  One on each exhaust pipe, or one before and after the Cat.  Polaraco is ODP1 so it only has one sensor.  No, I forgot what ODP meant. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on January 25, 2008, 10:31:36 AM
No, Steve, I'm not guessing.  The man said the Check Engine light is on, and it coded the O2 sensor.  So, change the damn sensor!  If the sensor is bad the injectors are proabby running incorrectly which would cause the motor to run either rich or lean.  The longer it is put off, the worse the damage that can occur - even to the point of failed cylinders.
 
Guessing is to see the light, run the codes, and then ignore them trying to find another cause.  Change what is bad/wrong first, then see what happens.  Auto Mechanics 101.
 
The Check Engine light exists for a purpose.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on January 25, 2008, 10:33:26 AM
Cluley, a special tool is needed to remove and replace the sensor.  It's a fairly cheap repair, but can become expensive if not done correctly.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: shawn payne on February 24, 2008, 02:43:31 PM
o2 sensor codes are comon, but may not be the problem, if you have a brick (scaner) then  clear the codes, if you dont then just unhook the battery touch both terminals together (that will use any power left in ecm and clear the codes) since you said it has a stalling/no idle problem i would remove the iac clean it and the hole it mounts in with carb cleaner and reinstall it. if that doesent work all your out is 1/2 of time and 3 bucks for a can of cleaner. if it does fix it, you saved 40 - 60 bucks on a new o2 sensor and said tool to put it in with.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on February 24, 2008, 03:16:22 PM
Ding!
 
Re-read!
 
MAP Sensor
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on February 25, 2008, 02:33:55 PM
If it is the MAP, follow the hoses and find the leak.  Fix, recheck.
 
This happened on my Dakota.  Cheapest Smog Repair I've ever done.  Cut the hose and reattached.
 
Vio'la!
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on February 26, 2008, 12:32:39 AM
Well, at this point the Saga of Van 28 has pretty much turned into more of a farce, but here's an update.
 
Almost a month ago, (shortly after my last post) I checked the spark plugs.  Color looked ok, but they were seriously worn.  The gaps were too large to measure with my guage!  So, replaced plugs/wires, which didn't seem to make improvement.
 
Before I had a chance to look for the O2 sensors, got a call from the owner, saying it was making funny noises, and not running well, and that he was taking it back to the office.  (I normally drive Sun-Tue, He drives it Wed-Sat)  Follow up call, explained that it was backfiring into the air cleaner, and he was taking it to get fixed.  YAY!!
 
The shop replaced the crank position sensor, and the O2 sensors.
That took care of the backfire, but it was still stalling occasionally.
 
So two weeks ago we both noticed that it ran fine for a couple of days.  The only thing I can see that may have been different was that the outside temps were very cold (I don't think it got above 5 that weekend)
 
The next day however, it simply died on me.  Went to pull out of a parking lot, it stalled without warning (not the gradual stumbling thing it has been doing) and would not start.
I was pretty sure it was not getting any fuel at all, since if I sprayed starting fluid or carb cleaner into the air cleaner it would fire up and run for 1-2 seconds.
 
So back to the shop it went.
I didn't hear anything until today (which was fine by me, as the full size Ford, and the Olds minivan, I drove instead are both newer and nicer.)
 
Tonight it was back from the shop.  Started ok, but still doing the stumbling thing a few times.  That lasted about 7 hours before it completely died again.
 
I left the owner a message, letting him know where I had abandoned it this time.
When he called back, I got the whole story on the latest round of repairs.
 
They replaced the fuel pump, he picked it up and it died a couple of miles down the road.  When they got it back, they determined it was blowing the fuse for the fuel pump, dropped the tank again, found a wire that seemed to be pinched, fixed that and declared it done (again.)
I wish I had known that beforehand, since I might have been able to get it back to the office.
At this point, I'm kind of hoping somebody comes along and sets fire to it, but that's just me. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on February 26, 2008, 02:10:34 PM
MMMMM
 
New problem.  The stumble and the fact you had to engage the throttle to start it, made me remember a few I had that did the same things.
 
I just replaced the MAP on Polaraco, which improved some other running issues, stumble was one.  The dealer told me the MAP on the Magnum is a very common item.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on March 27, 2008, 01:34:42 AM
Give Snotty a gold star.


Turns out the original shop that was supposed to replace the O2 sensors, only replaced one of them, not both.  Once the other was done, it ran great for the last couple of weeks....




 
until it chewed up the RF wheel bearing last night. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
 
 
 
I am SO glad I don't own this thing. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Matt Aker on March 27, 2008, 11:37:28 AM
At least it is still a cone and race setup, about $40 with a new seal. 
 
That van sounds cursed.  Before you become it's next victim, why not try parking it in neutral and slightly uphill next to a set of busy train tracks.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on March 27, 2008, 06:32:39 PM
What, and damage somebody's locomotive? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) D Cluley2008-03-27 22:33:41
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on March 29, 2008, 10:00:03 AM
Quote from: D Cluley
Give Snotty a gold star.


 


Thanks!  I get it right every now and then!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
My CE light came on again a week ago and coded the same message - P0442 = MAP sensor leak.  The same hose cracked on the other side of the T-valve.  Perhaps  should put new hoses on?
 
NNNAAAAHHHHH!!!!
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 08, 2008, 01:38:49 AM
2 minor ones this week.

A. Wouldn't start one night.  Cranking in the dark with the doghouse off quickly showed the problem.  It had been very damp out, and a wet vacuum hose was laying across the coil wire.  A chunk of wire loom took care of that one.
 
B.  The reverse lights are not working.  The bulbs are good, so where is the switch? 
 
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Snotty on April 08, 2008, 09:31:15 AM
Good question.  I know where it is on a manual trans, but an auto??
Hobby, don't you have the same trans on your Polarco?  Where's the switch?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Steve on April 08, 2008, 09:47:50 AM
Sigh  Me again
 
The back up light switch is in the same place as the 727's and 904's.  On the trans.  BUT! it runs through the ECM on that.  Well it does on mine anyway.  And Mine is older.
 
Start at the switch.  The Brown wire is the neutral safety switch.  The two whites (One is striped) is the back ups.  Test for 12 volts first.  I think that is also fed from the ECM as well.  I can look it up in my 92 book.
Title: Trouble with newer van
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 09, 2008, 02:18:13 AM
Thanks.
 
That's the same set up as the Dart, but the '65 has it in the column.  I wasn't sure if it was the year or the trans type that made the difference.