MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: R. Dave Carr on July 31, 2014, 06:00:12 PM

Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on July 31, 2014, 06:00:12 PM
Dave
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on July 31, 2014, 06:18:45 PM
uploads/865/elecignconv.pdf (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/865/elecignconv.pdf)

Well, hope this works, the last page actually has the wiring diagram itself. Follow it and all will be fine.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on July 31, 2014, 06:19:10 PM
Yep, it works.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on July 31, 2014, 06:29:38 PM
But I don't know what terminal on the relay to use, or if I need a different relay.....
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on July 31, 2014, 09:18:02 PM
Not sure what relay you are talking about, so two things. I take it this is not a Magnum computer controlled 318 for starters, and second, you can go online and get a factory wiring diagram for something like a 72 Dart for free, and rewire the car properly. If, everything was working just fine and then all the sudden started having problems, then start looking at wiring, especially going through bulkheads and shorting out. As long as power going through the ballast resistor reduces to 9.3v (I think that's the voltage), the ECU should handle 13.2v without a problem, so check the output at the alternator.
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on July 31, 2014, 10:27:12 PM
I have a feeling the unit ie wired wrong from the start
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 01, 2014, 07:04:49 AM
Agreed. Or there is a short that is frying the ECU.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 01, 2014, 07:41:01 AM
This is all installed in a 1959 Ford F100 with a Mopar drive train.  Aftermarket wiring harness to boot.  The electronic ignition system is stock Mopar, and is wired correctly from what I can tell.  I've looked at many, many diagrams, and the only thing I can find missing is the 12v wire that runs to the coil, and is only energized when the key is in the start position.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 01, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
This thing ran over a year before it decided to just stop starting.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 01, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
If that is the case, I would be concerned with a short somewhere that is shorting the ECU out, especially after a year.
Title: Help
Post by: Brian on August 01, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
I have to agree with the others.  The OEM Mopar Electronic ignition systems are darn near bullet proof.  There has to be some electrical bug causing the ECU to fry.

Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 01, 2014, 02:37:03 PM
What about the lack of a start wire to the coil?
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 01, 2014, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: carrman
This is all installed in a 1959 Ford F100 with a Mopar drive train.  Aftermarket wiring harness to boot.  The electronic ignition system is stock Mopar, and is wired correctly from what I can tell.  I've looked at many, many diagrams, and the only thing I can find missing is the 12v wire that runs to the coil, and is only energized when the key is in the start position.

See if the wiring has a chaff in it somewhere
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 01, 2014, 04:34:38 PM
Dave
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 01, 2014, 05:26:32 PM
Over heating the components
Solder and shrink wrap
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 01, 2014, 07:04:50 PM
Also going to add a ground strap from the ECU to the engine.  But he's got bigger fish to fry, he just crapped out a freeze plug. :(
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 01, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
Ahhh   This wouldn't by chance be a PT Cruiser is it?  LOL
Title: Help
Post by: Brian on August 01, 2014, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Ahhh   This wouldn't by chance be a PT Cruiser is it?  LOL

Hey now....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 02, 2014, 07:20:00 AM
Yeah, hey! PT Cruisers are wonderful cars. I have minimal complaints against them compared to many others out there.
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 02, 2014, 10:00:35 AM
Well that backfired. . . . LOL
I was talking about, what next
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 02, 2014, 01:53:32 PM
Yeah, I kind of noticed that, but had to go with your flow!
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 02, 2014, 07:54:07 PM
What about that start wire??????
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 02, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
Look at the diagram,  I didn't like that one.  There are others.


Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 03, 2014, 07:58:41 AM
Looks like we need a different starter relay then.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 03, 2014, 08:18:27 AM
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/sum-850003.pdf
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 04, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
Yeah, that works.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 07, 2014, 02:16:16 PM
STILL frying boxes after fixing the wiring connections.  I'm heading up Saturday to replace the coil, ballast resistor, and starter relay.  I can't say if that truck has the proper resistance coil and ballast for electronic ignition, but I figure the parts are cheap enough I can make sure everything matches.  Any more tips on what I should look for, send them on.  I have until Sat morning..
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 07, 2014, 08:46:52 PM
Well, what are the two things that will fry electronics? Too much voltage or voltage spike, and sometimes a loss of proper ground. Check the quality of your voltage. The ballast resistor won't harm the ECU, it is power reduced already and can't spike. Coil can't damage it either, power on the out direction. Power spikes can be from an improper ground. The directions I sent say that it is important to have a good ground other than to the body, so a separate wire on the case to the engine (there are several spare bolt holes on the back side of the head for ground straps), which would ensure more stable constant power without spikes due to proper grounding). It's the only thing I can think of, as long as there is a ballast resistor in the setup. 2 wires to the distributor reluctor, one to the coil and one from the ballast resistor. Ground it good and it should not be shorting.
 
Here's something to check, but I don't think it could short a control module. Check the wires in the distributor (going through the housing), and make sure there isn't any metallic metal around the reluctor and hall effect. Any kind of possible shorting going on in there, which I don't think can happen, but the wires going through the housing have been known occasionally to wear through and short things.
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 07, 2014, 08:51:56 PM
That's what I was going to say.  Grounds.
I had that [rpblem with the 62.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 08, 2014, 07:04:20 AM
Yup, part of tomorrows exercise will be to add a ground strap to the ECU from the engine, and add one from the engine to the frame as the current main ground runs from the battery to the frame.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 09, 2014, 08:42:54 PM
We started the truck, it has 14.2v at the alternator and positive terminal of the battery, 14.1v at the starter relay terminal, 13.8v at the high side of the ballast, and 7.5v at the low side running to the coil.  Headlights appear to be brighter, and the turn signals flash faster, and brighter.  Overall, I'd say it was a very successful day, and I feel his ignition modules will live longer now!  I have a feeling it was a combination of bad grounding, and totally inadequate power supply doing in his modules.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 10, 2014, 07:26:30 AM
Sounds great. I don't care what anyone says, all these new 20-24 gauge wires running all over the place just don't do it for me. I don't like going smaller than 18 gauge for anything, especially off the alternator. It does sound like you have things under better control as far as power to and from like it is supposed to, now comes the fun of waiting to see how things go, which I have good confidence will be better than it has been recently.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 10, 2014, 09:08:55 AM
Electrically the truck was happier than it's ever been..;-)  I just wish I had taken voltage readings before we made the changes so I could quantify the improvements, and not just have the results to show.  I like to measure improvements, but I just kept seeing electrical mistakes, and I was driven to fix them....
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2014, 08:13:08 PM
OK!  Now lets see what happens.  That control module can be pretty power hungry.  It may have been double jeopardy. 


BTW, you look at that switch yet?
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 11, 2014, 05:33:15 AM
Yeah, I just need it to not be 100 degrees here and I can put it in.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 11, 2014, 08:32:12 AM
The boy just told me the truck even RUNS BETTER now.....
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 11, 2014, 11:33:32 AM
Yeah, it always seems amazing how a vehicle runs better when things get grounded properly. Bet the mileage goes up, too!
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 11, 2014, 03:55:22 PM
Well, damn thing won't start again.  I'm out of ideas.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 11, 2014, 08:09:13 PM
Can't be a lost ground, what about a short? Have you checked inside the distributor for ferrous/metallic debris around the hall effect/reluctor, or the two wires going to them through the distributor housing?  And/or what about the ballast resistor back shorting out on the body? I saw that once.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 11, 2014, 08:10:07 PM
On second thought, just as a quick test, run a jumper wire from one side of the ballast resistor to the other side and see if it starts. Don't leave it running long, too much juice.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 12, 2014, 05:49:57 AM
Ill have him look under the cap.  We replaced the ballast last Saturday.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 12, 2014, 06:08:50 AM
Oooooohkay, damn thing started right up for him this morning.  Difference being, it's cool this morning, and was 100 degrees up there yesterday afternoon when it wouldn't start.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 12, 2014, 06:21:38 AM
That sounds like the hall effect starting to go out, or weak. They usually die after they warm up, then will restart when cooled down, but I guess it could do it for residual heat this way.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 12, 2014, 06:15:37 PM
Ok, that distributor was a NAPA reman I got him over a year ago.  Hoping that's not it.  Another thing was brought up, maybe the fuel is boiling out of the carb.  Satin black truck, temps of 100 degrees and sat in the sun for 8 hours.
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 12, 2014, 08:44:07 PM
Wait.  I thought he was burning out control boxes?  

The virgin had this problem.  I saw people were poking around all over the place on it.  I just put a pick up in it and it was fine
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 12, 2014, 08:45:04 PM
If it is doing that, should start after a few tries to get fresh fuel up to the carb. Fuel pump or electric pump? Used to have a little old Airtech electric fuel pump that used to do that, never had the issue once I switched to a Holley pump. Did he check for squirting fuel when he has the problem?
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 13, 2014, 06:44:03 AM
Yeah, he was burning boxes.  Truck wouldn't start at all until we did our work after he replaced the box.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 13, 2014, 06:46:09 AM
Unfortunately, he didn't check for spark like I asked him to when it wouldn't start, he just walked home.  So, I wait until the next time it dies.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 13, 2014, 08:24:24 AM
Yes, and if the pick-up dies(hall effect), there won't be any spark because the power doesn't have anywhere to ground out (or it's internally ground and looks like a bad box, either way), so the hall effect needs to be checked out. 
Title: Help
Post by: Steve on August 13, 2014, 08:51:11 AM
Quote from: carrman
Unfortunately, he didn't check for spark like I asked him to when it wouldn't start, he just walked home.  So, I wait until the next time it dies.

Damn Kids (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 13, 2014, 08:56:01 AM
Pretty much, but he's learning.  Know what he REALLY learned last weekend?  Dad's kinda smart about vehicles.
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 13, 2014, 09:45:20 AM
LOL. I always love it when that happens.
Title: Help
Post by: R. Dave Carr on August 13, 2014, 09:58:35 AM
His comment to me when I found the cheesy 14 gauge charge lead "it's been working fine".  Now it's "my lights are a bit brighter, my turn signals never have worked so good, and it just flat runs better".
Title: Help
Post by: dana44 on August 13, 2014, 10:35:36 AM
Yeah, they always get surprised when things go from running to running like they are supposed to.