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General BS and Laughs => General Mopar Discussions => Topic started by: Brian on July 29, 2014, 08:52:42 AM

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2014, 08:52:42 AM
Thought I would post this up here...hope someone can help.

Got a call from my sister in-law this morning, seems her 02 PT cruiser tranny died last night.  The car has 302K km's, and no tranny rebuild to their knowledge.  

She was just driving, slowed down and almost came to a stop, then turned a corner and the tranny would not go into any gear but 1st.  She said if she reved it up to the point where it "should" shift, that it seemed to just go into neutral?  And would stay there, and not down shift when the road speed dropped.

She said she would then have to shut the ignition off.  Put the tranny in park, then start it up and try again.  Tried this numerous times and the same thing happened over and over.

Check engine light came on a few minutes after all this started happening.  My brother is a car guy, so he told her to try a few thing.  So She tried disconnecting the battery for 10+ minutes...to reset the computer, and check engine light.  But the issues never changed.

Eventually they had to get it towed home.  Unfortunately my access to a code reader has been hampered by my friend going on holidays.  So I'm trying to find some advice by the knowledgeable people who frequent these boards.


Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Steve on July 29, 2014, 10:29:35 AM
When was the fluid and filter changed last?
Sounds like it's in limp mode which could be a long list of items.  
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2014, 11:45:16 AM
No idea when the tranny was serviced last.  They just bought the car 10 days ago.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)

I had her pull the quick codes off the dash with the 3x's ignition on/off.  She told me there is P0700 and a P1684.  I have done a little searching and reading and have found that these are,

P0700 - DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) which means that there are more codes stored in the TCM (Tranny Control module) and will require a scan tool to access them.

P1684 - Is a code that comes up if the battery has recently been disconnected.  So not an issue.


Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on July 29, 2014, 12:24:25 PM
Sounds like one of two things. Either the transmission fluid is low or there is something stuck in the selonoid pack, or the selonoid pack went back. Yes, it did go into limp mode to allow you to at least get home if you are close, and it is slow city driving speed only. Start with checking the fluid level to make sure it isn't low, then yes, the scan tool to see if it says something is wrong with the selonoid pack. The transmissions are actually pretty durable, have seen them go well into the 500k ranges with simple fluid changes.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2014, 01:37:05 PM
Thanks Ed....I appreciate the advice.  I just got off the phone with my sister in-law, and I advised her to wait until we can scare up an OBDII scanner.  No sense doing a tranny swap, or repair, if...like you suggest...it's just a solenoid pack.

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on July 29, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
The OBDII tool should be able to tell you whether or not the selonoid pack is bad. Good luck.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Steve on July 29, 2014, 08:41:45 PM
That's what I was driving too.  There are electronic governors too.  
I assume they bought it privately
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2014, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
That's what I was driving too.  There are electronic governors too.  

Yup....so no recourse.

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 30, 2014, 09:27:44 PM
Alright my brother found a cheapy OBDII scanner and hooked it up this evening, he got additional codes.

P0720 - Output Speed Sensor Circuit malfunction
P0732 - 2nd Gear Ratio incorrect
P0733 - 3rd Gear Ratio incorrect

I'm going over tomorrow evening with the Snap-on scanner I can borrow and see if any additional codes come up.  

He did have some additional info though.  He took it for a test drive this evening.  First time he's had a chance since this happened.  Anyway he says when driving normally it will pull to about 1500-2000rpm then just seems to go into neutral.  You have to stop, put it in park, then turn ignition off...wait a couple seconds...then turn everything back on and it will repeat.

But he did discover that if he put it in drive, then put the throttle to the floor the car would pull all the way to 6000rpm and then hit the Rev limiter and just sit there.  He said it pulled hard with no noise, or slipping from the tranny.  But as soon as he let off the throttle, at the high RPM's, it would go into neutral.

I've done a little research on-line and I'm hoping it's just the solenoid pack, and the in/out speed sensors that need replacing?

Thoughts?
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Steve on July 30, 2014, 09:38:24 PM
check the connections and grounds.  Chances are if the circuit is malfunctioning, it's not getting the gear info either.  If you google those codes, they'll tell you what and where the problem is.  Start with the malfunction.  Chances are it will fix the other two
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 31, 2014, 06:50:31 AM
Yeah that was what I was thinking too Steve.  Might try a new set of in/out speed sensors, and see what happens.  They are cheap...under $20 for the pair!

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on July 31, 2014, 07:17:38 AM
Don't waste the money on the sensors just yet. The sensors have the wrong inputs because of the selonoid pack not getting the trans into the proper gear, thus their input is a malfunction. There should be a simple electrical check to verify the sensors themselves are good. There should also be an electrical check that can be done externally for the selonoid pack, but have not done or have any clue how to do, but might be something to look into as far as diagnosis goes. I believe the pack is located on the outside of the transmission and can be serviced without removing the transmission.
 
What does the transmission fluid look like? The selonoid pack does have tiny debris screens in them, that I know, but not sure how many of them are located in the salvage yards at this point, might be able to yank a pack out of another one cheaper than a new one, to which I don't know what the cost of a new one is, either.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on July 31, 2014, 09:07:14 AM
Thanks Ed for the advice.  A reman solenoid pack, I can get for $85.  And the sensors are under $20 for the pair.  So for just over hundred bucks it seems like a cheap fix to me. 

In the research I've done on-line most people shy away from junk yard solenoid packs.  And for the price of a reman unit it hardly seems worth the time and effort to go pull off a used unit.

I'm sure there are checks for the sensors, and Solenoid pack...but would probably have to have a FSM, or access to Ma Mopars diagnostic procedures.  And my brother is not the type of person to spend the time to check Ohm, resistance and voltage pin outs on TCM's and Solenoid packs.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Brother told me the fluid looks great, feels good and smells fine.  So I'm assuming that is all good.  He's been turning wrenches, for fun and a living for almost as long as me....so I trust his diagnosis.  I'm going to get him to drop the pan and check for clutch debris in the pan and filter. 

If that checks out good, then will probably do the sensors first...if problem persists, then do the solenoid pack.


Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Snotty on July 31, 2014, 04:32:45 PM
Quote from: thrashingcows
No idea when the tranny was serviced last.  They just bought the car 10 days ago.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)


From whom or what?  If a dealer, take it back - there's clearly a problem.  If from a Private Party, she should call them and let them know.  Their reaction will signify if they knew this was coming.  Nothing will change except knowing that she bought a problem waiting to happen.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on August 01, 2014, 09:17:31 AM
OK went over to my brother's last night with the code reader.  Same codes as before...except for a P0731 - 1st gear ratio incorrect.  He had gone to the wreckers and picked up a used set of input/output sensors and installed them.  Hoping for a quick, cheap fix...Nope! I cleared all the codes.

The car still had no reverse, and would only go into first.  We had it up in the air and brought the RPM up to 3000rpm and speed about 30 km/h....never shifted.  And we could both feel an "imbalance" in the tranny, through the shifter, and brake/throttle pedals.  Ran the codes again after this...all were back again.

So I suggest we pull the pan and see what was happening.  The magnet in the pan looked like a puffer fish, or a sea urchin!  There were lots of shiny metal debris in the pan too.  We cut open the filter and found aluminum shavings.  So that pretty much seals the deal...tranny is toast!:(

Thank you to everyone who offered advice, and suggestions.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on August 01, 2014, 10:13:50 AM
OK, even though that many miles are on the transmission, I would swap out a selonoid pack, because if there is that much junk in there, since metal bits and fluid are going through the selonoid pack, there may be something jamming things up and not allowing them to simply engage. Might be a cheap fix until you can get a reaplcement transmission, Be sure to get a new torque converter so it isn't contaminated, too, and flush the tranny cooler.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on August 01, 2014, 11:39:17 AM
Hadn't thought of the tranny cooler, great advice...Thanks Ed!!

I Will mention it to my brother when I talk to him next.  Were going to pull the junk tranny and put aside for now, then rebuild it in our spare time.  But He's going to grab a junkyard tranny and try and do a Re/Re this weekend.  It's a long weekend up here in BC...so he's got 3 1/2 days. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

 If I wasn't off work due to a muscle tear in my arm, I'd be giving him a hand. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on August 01, 2014, 01:58:42 PM
At least they are a small transmission. Usually pretty tough, hope it goes well.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Steve on August 01, 2014, 03:19:28 PM
Going on the cheap always bites you in the ars
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on August 01, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Going on the cheap always bites you in the ars

Hey sometimes you get lucky.  He had nothing to loose by tossing $10 worth of used sensors at it....heck it was worth a try.

Turned out it was in vain...but at least we know now that tossing electrical related parts at it would be useless...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on August 02, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Yeah, the gear ratio sync mismatch is because the old valve bodies used shuttle valves to control the fluid path to engage clutch packs, now they (supposedly) simplified it by using selonoids to open and close those passages, to which some are engaging and some aren't (the mismatch between the sensors), stuck open or closed based on the metal you found. Next thing would be to pull the selonoid pack and clean out the little filter screens. I think they even have a service kits to clean and replace the screens and O-rings for such service, someone over on another site had a whole topic and pictures of doing it, which wasn't that difficult. My only concern is the contaminants in the fluid and getting everything cleaned out may be needed, especially the cooler and lines, but the filter itself may have done its job and kept the big stuff out the way it is supposed to.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on August 06, 2014, 08:52:29 AM

My brother picked up a used tranny out of the wreckers for under $100. 
Out of a 06 Neon, with 68K km's.  Thing looked almost new, and the
filter and pan were pristine!!  Swapped it in and works like a charm! 
Then the alternator would not charge.  We worked on that for a couple
days and finally had to run a new wire from the stud on the alternator
to the battery.  Seems there is a fusible link hidden somewhere in that
heavy wiring circuit, and it is toast.  So for now this will do the job.
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on August 06, 2014, 08:56:14 AM
Sounds good. Gonna tear the old one apart and see what happened, just for the mechanic fun of the whole thing?
Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: Brian on August 06, 2014, 02:13:05 PM
He'd like to rebuild it, so if the used one fails...he's got a new one ready to go.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: 2002 PT Cruiser tranny issues....
Post by: dana44 on August 07, 2014, 10:08:06 AM
That's one way to figure out what happened.