MoparFins

Rules and General Info => WELCOME NEW MEMBERS! => Topic started by: Eric Koning on May 28, 2014, 05:20:49 PM

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on May 28, 2014, 05:20:49 PM
Just wanted to introduce myself, Im Eric and Im a moparholic.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) Bought a 57 dodge sierra and got it home on saturday.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/1009/wag.jpg)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/1009/wagon.jpg)

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on May 28, 2014, 06:18:49 PM
Brings back memories.  I had a 58.  Looks solid!  We'll be here.  Lots of experience here
WELCOME!
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 29, 2014, 05:43:52 AM
I love wagons as well.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: firedome on May 30, 2014, 04:14:02 AM
Welcome!! Cool Wagon! Looks real solid. I have a '58 Windsor that's actually a Dodge, built in the Dodge plant.  Keep us posted on your progress!


Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 08, 2014, 05:44:25 AM
Just a bit of an update. I picked up a 5.9l from a 97 magnum (engine, harness, computer, and trans). Think we are going to try the swap. Not sure how the power steering will work or what you do about the fuel pump so if any one has done this swap let me know! Thanks  Eric

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 08, 2014, 10:42:14 AM
Easiest way to do the fuel pump is to do an inline aftermarket pump and mount it near the tank. Isolate it with rubber so it doesn't vibrate.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 08, 2014, 01:03:07 PM
What psi pump do I need to run the fuel injection?


Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 08, 2014, 05:57:27 PM
That you will have to check the book, but it is somewhere in the 45-55psi, check the book according to the year, the different years vary by a few pounds of pressure. I can't locate my book but I know the info is there (or online).
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on June 08, 2014, 06:58:36 PM
Heh  Hey Guys.  Does this sound familiar?  I did this 8 years ago with a Magnum 5.9 in a 72 Polara



I also might suggest some head porting.  Ed and I did a lengthy article on porting a few years ago.  Where did we put that Ed?  Tech Engine?
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 08, 2014, 07:14:14 PM
I think it is. I think that was three years ago.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Snotty on June 08, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
What is a '97 Magnum?  Do you mean a '97 Dodge Truck that had the 5.9 Magnum motor in it?  Just curious....
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 09, 2014, 02:55:34 AM
yes thats what i meant. lol

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 09, 2014, 03:48:45 AM
I really want to have the fuel injection. My gas tank has holes in it so I was going to have some one bend the material up for me to match the orig tank and then we were going to weld it up. So at this point I can modify the tank for a return line with no problem. How about the power steering? I have read that a gm power steering pump will have lower pressure but havent been able to find what the orig system can handle.  I know that the 5.9 is rated at 1600 psi although it doesnt have that all the time.

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 09, 2014, 07:58:20 AM
Not sure why the original 5.9 pump won't work with the original power steering box, fittings would be the only thing I would think would need to be matched up. There is a serpentine belt for the pump so you may not want to go through the problems associated with fitting a different pump and matching a belt to make a GM pump work. The EFI fuel system has no return line, so that shouldn't be an issue, either.  Check around different EFI cars for shapes as far as tanks go, you may find something that has the same outlet location and the pump inside, needed pressure (45-48psi is where the pressure is), otherwise, external pump is the better setup for simplicity and not worrying about the size and shape of the pump or tank, make a tank you want.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Snotty on June 09, 2014, 08:15:58 AM
Quote from: 57 wagon
yes thats what i meant. lol

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 09, 2014, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: dana44
Not sure why the original 5.9 pump won't work with the original power steering box, fittings would be the only thing I would think would need to be matched up. There is a serpentine belt for the pump so you may not want to go through the problems associated with fitting a different pump and matching a belt to make a GM pump work. The EFI fuel system has no return line, so that shouldn't be an issue, either.  Check around different EFI cars for shapes as far as tanks go, you may find something that has the same outlet location and the pump inside, needed pressure (45-48psi is where the pressure is), otherwise, external pump is the better setup for simplicity and not worrying about the size and shape of the pump or tank, make a tank you want.

Pretty sure the 5.9 pump will put to much pressure to the 57 gear box and blow the seals.  I think I will go with the external fuel pump. Just dont know the exact one I need for the efi. So many to choose from lol. Im just going to copy the orig tank because it sits behind the quarter panel and fits around the wheel well.

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 10, 2014, 09:54:30 PM
You could dig into the books a tiny bit and see what the original pressure was. I believe it was in the 1200psi range, but all my books are packed away to verify. And I definitely don't know what the 5.9 pump puts out pressure-wise.  Since stock isn't an issue, possibly you would look into moving up to rack and pinion?
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 11, 2014, 02:32:01 PM
We decided today that we would go with a rack and pinion, I think. lol  Found out the pressure for the 57 is 750-800psi and the 97 5.9 is rated at 1600.

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 11, 2014, 07:56:59 PM
Yeah, quite a difference there and I think the rack and pinion setup will be a wonderful addition, and look a lot cleaner to boot.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on June 18, 2014, 03:12:27 PM
I was able to get some work done on the car this past saturday. Pulled the front clip off and the engine/trans out. Unfortunately I have limited time to work on the car so this will be a slow moving process. We were discussing our options with the gas tank. I can make one to match the original which might be an issue with modern pump because the tank is 22" tall or the other option is to build my own tank and put it where the spare tire goes under the floor. The issue with that will be running the plumbing for filling the tank. decisions decisions  lol

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2014, 04:56:22 PM
Why can't you just put the pump in the bottom of the tank and use the factory sending unit?.  I would think all you need is a flange on the bottom of the tank.  Those tanks rust out in the bottom anyway
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on June 20, 2014, 02:52:41 PM
That, and it would be easy to adapt the newer units in the tank to one that is that deep. Think truck gas tanks, I think the Dakota tanks are that deep, and if you are going to have to make a tank anyway, all it needs is a screw on flange (like a jar lid, just a little larger) to add to the top of the tank and be done with it. If you don't wish to do that, external. Fast and easy, no worries about the depth of the tank at all.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 26, 2014, 10:46:59 AM

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on July 04, 2014, 07:38:09 PM
So I have three of these original tanks and all three are rusted out at the bottom lol. What we thinking about is putting the gas tank under the floor in the back of the wagon. I have alot of room there. I found a few 90s tanks and one in particular is a brand x but I can get if for under $120 then I just need to add the orig fuel pump for that tank for $60. We really considered building our own tank but by the time I buy all the material, fittings, pump, and sending unit I will be over the amount of the brand x. We got some other work done on the car this week, mostly pulling all the door handles off and getting 57 years of dried up grease off and reinstalling them. Its the small things that seem to take the longest. Oh well keeps me out of trouble. lol

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2014, 08:31:35 PM
Why not have one of the rusted tanks modified with a bottom sump flange?  Put the pump in there.  Then it looks original and will give you more fuel capicity
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: R. Dave Carr on July 05, 2014, 02:39:21 PM
Or do a fuel surge tank.....
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on July 06, 2014, 05:09:00 PM
For some reason I dont care for the surge tank idea. Dont know why just dont. As far as modifying the original tank the problem is the way the tank is made it would be hard to match the seem on it so it doesnt leak. I will be putting a 20 gal tank in and if I wanted to could go with a bigger one. We will be filling from the original spot on the left wing of the car too. Room is not an issue where we are putting the new one and in fact I will still have room for a tool box.

Im not too concerned with originality, If I was, I wouldnt be putting a computerized motor and trans in. For the most part the car will look original, just will have more modern, more reliable in todays driving conditions, and easier to find parts for.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on July 07, 2014, 06:05:17 AM
Does anyone have a cross reference book, see if there is another newer model that uses the same tank?
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on July 07, 2014, 01:10:58 PM
Yeah I do.  Nag me to remind me
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: R. Dave Carr on July 07, 2014, 01:40:32 PM
Well I offered a minimal fabrication solution to you and you didn't like it, so good luck you.  I'm out.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on July 07, 2014, 02:03:27 PM
Sorry Carrman, didnt mean to hurt any ones feelings. The fact of the matter is I would have to buy a tank anyways or make one so why not go with one that is already set up for efi where i can buy the parts cheaper? Also if I ever have to service the tank in any way it is easier to get to.

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on August 19, 2014, 05:27:13 PM
Little update. We slobbered some paint on the firewall and frame. Cleaned up, painted, and mounted the 5.9 and trans. Afterwards we found out we had to change the tunnel because the drive shaft would rub on it. Sure did suck cutting up the orig floor for that. lol. Never owned an old car where we didnt have to replace the floor and I finally get one we dont need to but then cut it up. We are putting in 4 bucket seats because thats what I have and orig seat was tore up and uncomfortable. We mounted the drivers seat. Got the new brake booster, mc, and peddle hung. Next step is to run brake lines. Put the disk brake conversion kit in the front. In the rear there is a ford 8.8 rear end(came with it and Im fresh out of 8.75s) Have all new brake stuff for that. Turns out it has a Limited slip 3:73 gear which should work great with the od trans. Shortly the wiring mess will come along. Not looking forward to that. lol

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2014, 09:46:22 PM
MMMM   Sounds strange.  What trans?
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on August 20, 2014, 03:00:55 AM
47re that came with the motor.  What sounds strange?

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on August 31, 2014, 07:29:20 PM
Usually what ends up happening is the rear crossmember for the trans has to be lowered about 2 inches to fix that problem compared to a regular 3spd trans so the tunnel just needs to be expanded at the overdrive portion of the 47RE, but too late now. Wiring isn't that difficult, the engine/computer and trans wiring is minimal, try doing this with a Ford and it is a monster that weights 35lbs vice three pounds for the Dodges. Sounding good so far though, keep up the good work.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on November 04, 2014, 12:46:03 PM
Alright wiring gurus that have put an efi in an old car. Need your help bad. We have the original engine harness from the 97 ram including the trans wiring. My dad was positive we could get this figured out. We are having problems with how to make this wiring work while getting rid of all the wiring that goes inside the car for like the dash and stuff. My dad is at the point of making me spend $1000 on a harness that I dont really have. His issue is that all wires go from one relay to another and we arent sure how to do that with only keeping the correct ones to make the car run. Has anyone made up a diagram from when they did theirs?

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2014, 01:45:03 PM
Do you have the wiring diagram?  You need it for that specific harness
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on November 04, 2014, 03:05:48 PM
yes I have a manual on a cd and we have printed off what we need. Part of issue is these diagrams aren't layed out like they use to be. Before you could follow one wire all the way through. Now one wire will be on multiple pages at least thats how the cd is

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2014, 07:40:35 PM
I did this on Polaraco.  It has a 518 with the computer.  But I used a 92 harness.  You can tune that one, it's ODP2.




Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2014, 07:45:09 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/DSCN1665.JPG)

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: dana44 on November 05, 2014, 07:19:29 AM
Yes, it is an engineering feat to follow those diagrams, so backward engineer the diagrams. Start with a large piece of paper or papers and draw everything out. Compared to the Fords, this is pretty easy, helped a friend that ended up with a Lightning engine and trans and two garbage cans of wires and got it running on a stand (which has to have a dash panel to operate). He had the books (literally 200+ pages each), and yes, taped paper on the wall, started identifying colors and pieces to sensors and figured it out in two days after he spent two weeks going page to page. The easy part for the Dodges is, get the engine sensors plugged in and then go from the bulkhead connector to the inside pieces and gauges to simplify things, Mopars are pretty good about sensors and plugs only go one place, only a couple duplicate on the engine. The engine and computer is one harness, headlights separate, so deal with the engine first, computer and to the bulkhead, use the paper diagrams to identify bulkhead connector wire location and colors to dash gauges.
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on November 05, 2014, 07:56:07 AM
Make copies of the ECM pages.  make notes and keep transposing them as you succeed.  You may need this info later.
It's not as hard as it sounds
Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Eric Koning on November 05, 2014, 03:26:15 PM
Alright, thanks. Maybe I will let my dad forget about it for awhile because he is pretty frustrated with it now. lol. He runs a one man welding shop so he works on it during his free time. Usually by time he gets a chance to work on it he gets interrupted and forgets where he is at.

Title: New guy from freeport, il
Post by: Steve on November 05, 2014, 04:18:26 PM
Masking tape and a marker.  The ecm wiring is on 2 pages.  there should be a list of the wire numbers and a brief description of what it does.  There should also be a chart showing the location on the ECM.  Once you look that over, it should make sense to you.