MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: firedome on May 14, 2014, 09:45:53 AM

Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 14, 2014, 09:45:53 AM
After our engine swap ( BOTH the donor car and recipient are a 318 Poly, '64 Dodge 440 model,) I took the main (crank) dual pulley off the donor car with  A/C engine and put on the non-A/C dual pulley that came with my car originally. Both have PS, 727, everything else the same except for the A/C.  Now the dual pulley is out about 1/4" too far, and when I shimmed the water pump pulley out that much so that the belt aligned for the Alternator, Water pump and dual pulley, the PS pump pulley is now out of alignment with it's corresponding groove on the dual pulley... what's going on? It's enough that the belt won't line up,  is there a crank pulley that's about 1/4" thinner? Parts guy says the water pump for both A/C and non-A/C are same part number...ideas?


firedome2014-05-14 14:57:35
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 14, 2014, 01:13:35 PM
Just brainstorming
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 14, 2014, 03:08:18 PM
check the damper Rog  See if it sits further back  I have a couple of different ones hanging around here that may fix it
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: dana44 on May 14, 2014, 06:38:30 PM
I would swap the harmonic balancer, and change the seal while you are at it, hate when they leak.
 
Verify by measuring the distance from the case to the outer face of the balancer, there has to be a difference there, verify also a flat edge against the harmonic balancer and distance of the face to the water pump to see if there is a difference between the two engines.
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 14, 2014, 07:22:06 PM
Isn't a different pump for A/C?  Or won't that matter?  Just a thought.
come to think of it, the PS bracket may be diff for AC as well.  I assume you used the AC one?
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 15, 2014, 04:26:10 AM
 Both were identical poly 318s out of the identical year and model '64 Dodge, so as close as it gets except for the A/C. Don't have the original engine any more, just the new one that formerly had the A/C so nothing to measure to compare it with. My parts guy says water pump part # is same for both A/C and non A/C. The PS pump seemed to be the same with the same bracket, if I recall right, but don't have one to compare. The harmonic balancer, I can't remember now if I swapped it or not, I only have the one now, I might have, not sure.  I saw this 40k mile engine run it was quiet as new and  there were no leaks so I opted to leave the seals alone, which is usually better for me, as I don't have the mechanical experience most of you guys have, and we never did a swap before.  Josh & I  did this back in Sept/Oct, and my memory of what things were isn't so good now. It got cold and we had to stop. Should have hung on to the old engine and parts, but my space is so small I had to get it gone so we had room to work. Frustrating as heck since we are so close to up and running now.

firedome2014-05-15 09:34:05
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 15, 2014, 10:26:56 AM
I have a few here Rog, but these are 70's and 80's engines
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 15, 2014, 12:00:58 PM
All would be well if on the water pump the distance from the pulley attachment plate face (cross shaped on these)  to the block-side face was about 5/16" different. Not sure what the heck is going on. I'm sure the harmonic balancer and pulley is tight and all.

I remember now that the old crank pulley was triple, for the A/C, I swapped the double one from the old engine on, but that shouldn't have made this problem I'd think.



Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 15, 2014, 01:42:22 PM
Those pullys were all over the place back then.  Can you get a clear shot of the lower?  Let me see if I have something different
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 16, 2014, 04:59:47 AM
Will get a pic of the pulleys this w/e... its the double pulley that came off the engine that came originally in the car, going onto the identical engine, same year/model car. go figure.

Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 16, 2014, 12:08:20 PM
Their used to be a difference in the water pumps.  But these ignen parts companies just shrugged and said why make both.  Not sure if included the pump spacing or not.  It used to be the impeller was different. I've always had cars with AC so I was specific.  Try a few different places.  Check Rock Auto too.  But they're not always correct either.
Todays car people are not car people
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 17, 2014, 12:09:30 PM
Ordered a Cardone pump from local parts place I trust (ie not Auto Zombies)... will see what's what when it comes, from Joisey.

Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: dana44 on May 17, 2014, 01:48:46 PM
Do all the other accessories, alternator and power steering pump, line up otherwise? If so, then water pump or water pump pulley.
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2014, 03:48:21 PM
My Carquest guys are real good.  I could have fixed you up.  Wish you said something.  Could have met you half way
Title: Poly Pulley Problems
Post by: firedome on May 18, 2014, 02:41:03 AM
Thanks for the offer Steve, my guy Dave here is real good too, he mgr. and mostly deals with repair shops, in the biz for like 20 yrs  and really knows his stuff, goes the extra mile to find things... will have it by Tues from their NJ warehouse. It's not a driver car yet so no rush, but will be my summer driver (besides the wife's Mustang 'vert) when done.

I'm thinking I need to go back to the 3 groove A/C pulley and just use the 2 grooves I need. I should have done that in the first place I guess. I may need to find the A/C version alternator bracket too, not sure if it's different. So now I need to find the 3 groove pulley, shouldn't have let it go with the engine.