MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - STEERING WHEELS AND SUSPENSION => Topic started by: Rob Molloy on May 10, 2013, 12:55:49 PM

Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on May 10, 2013, 12:55:49 PM
With the shimmy and shake of the steering wheel, and the front of the car in general, I think it's about time to replace stock bushings and all that jazz. The only problem is, I don't know what all I need. I'm looking at something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-front-end-kit-1959-1961-Chrysler-Windsor-/200516726849?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eafba7041&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-front-end-kit-1959-1961-Chrysler-Windsor-/200516726849?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eafba7041&vxp=mtr)
Would this be something worth looking into? (I know it's ebay, I'm just trying to get an idea of what I would need. Thanks!!!)
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2013, 01:09:14 PM

 
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on May 10, 2013, 07:55:06 PM
http://www.p-s-t.com/s.nl/it.A/id.44/.f?sc=12 (http://www.p-s-t.com/s.nl/it.A/id.44/.f?sc=12)

I have had good luck with these guys, Performance Suspention Technology, almost sounds like the same kit, but you have all the rebound bumpers, then the only thing missing is the two inner tie-rods and idler arm if you want that, bushings for it should suffice (not positive of the design here compared to A and B bodies). I have used these guys a dozen times over the years, never a problem, reasonable prices. Steve, couldn't find a full kit from Just Suspensions.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on May 13, 2013, 08:59:03 AM
JS used to have the full kit.  If they still do I would recommend using them.  I've used PST on 3 cars.  By the time you add in the inner tie-rods, idler arm, and bushings (if you do swap them) the price is equal to or more than JS.  There is also a question of the quality of the parts from PST vs those from JS.  I did have an upper ball joint go bad on one of the kits form PST.


Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2013, 10:59:34 AM

And the JS is not repackaged Moog.  Way back we had an article posted on the difference in the parts.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on May 23, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Thanks for the input guys! I'm patiently waiting for some moneies that the Navy owes me, and I will be getting a kit on order. She's scaring me a little bit when driving. Figure its about due anyway.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on May 23, 2013, 07:25:28 PM
Well, at this point, check the ball joints (grab the top of the wheel and push and pull), check the tie-rod ends, might find something that needs to be changed to save your life now.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on May 23, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
Are you driving on bias-ply tires?  If so they will exaggerate movement, especially if you have bad ball joints.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on June 26, 2013, 03:16:00 PM
Rebuild kit on order, and p-s-t (thus far) is awesome, no shipping, and I ordered the kit last night, and it's already been shipped!
 
Snotty, I'm running cheap radials right now. It's just old and stock still. LOL.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on June 26, 2013, 07:03:13 PM
Good job. Now the fun begins. You familiar with the removal of things?
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on June 27, 2013, 07:48:02 AM
Nope. My coworker does and he will be helping me out. It will be a good learning experience for me.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on June 27, 2013, 09:33:48 AM
If your '59 is like the later Mopes, you/your Buddy will need some special sockets to remove the top ball-joint.  Those suckers are huge!!
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on June 27, 2013, 11:45:59 AM
Good to know!
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on June 27, 2013, 03:00:59 PM
Just suspension has them and you can find them on eBay.  Be careful with eBay though
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on June 28, 2013, 09:42:07 AM
I borrowed one from my Buddy Chris Fredricksen.  Here's a shot from my '70:
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/8/IMG_2735a.JPG)


Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on June 28, 2013, 11:08:08 AM
I can loan you the ones you need.  Just pay the freight.  It could be 1 of 2.  I have 2 sets and no plans.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 04, 2013, 05:19:50 PM
(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/999328_10151459137180841_1157372500_n.jpg)

The guy that was going to help me had to have his appendix removed yesterday, so it won't be this weekend like I wanted it to be. Oh well. Autozone has the ball joint removal tools for rent too. Can't wait to get her done. 
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2013, 05:52:39 PM
Rob
 
I have the bushing tools too
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on July 06, 2013, 09:36:18 AM
Take a good look at your Pitman and idler arms while you have it all off.  It will be the best time to replace those if needed.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 06, 2013, 11:56:57 AM
OK, so getting the front tires off, I remembered, the previous owner converted it to disk brakes. Does that change what I should have bought? I think its kinda cool they are Chrysler brakes. Is the kit I got still good for this?
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 06, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
Very small progress made today....meaning garage cleaned, car moved, front tires off to analyze and plan the way of going about the tear down. PICS!!
(http://https:/sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/484693_10151465577380841_1031550114_n.jpg)

(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/968999_10151465686590841_45594683_n.jpg)

(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001196_10151465686830841_308786804_n.jpg)


Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 07, 2013, 08:50:11 AM

That upper ball joint looks new.  The lower might be too.  Better look at the bushings close now.  You may be able to skip this part.  As far as the proper parts, Probably you're OK.  He could have just bolted a mount to the spindle
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 07, 2013, 02:45:33 PM
Well, got it mostly torn apart today, with the exception of actually getting the ball joints and bushings out. There was some play in the ball joints, I don't know when this was done last time (I can guess when the brake conversion was done, but I don't know when that was). I was kinda ticked that none of the ball joints, and neither of the tie rod ends had the cotter pins in. the drivers side tie rod end just fell out after I got the nut off. Anyway, onto pics:
(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/993601_10151467659300841_1712384175_n.jpg)

(http://https:/sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1004752_10151467659365841_1833923434_n.jpg)

(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1043922_10151467659575841_891747436_n.jpg)

Having fun with this one!

Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Snotty on July 08, 2013, 09:10:06 AM
Please tell me you unloaded the torsion bolts before you removed all of this?  That is step one when working on these cars.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 08, 2013, 10:21:12 AM
Ummmmmm....no....I did not know...shoot....
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 08, 2013, 12:07:25 PM
Funny. Tierod fell out because it probably isn't the right size for the tapered hole of the spindle for the disc brake spindle. Thread size for the adjustment is the important part, large enough for the tapered spindle tierod hole is the other important part.
 
From where you are now, undo the torsion bars, which may be at the rear of the torsion bar or under the lower control arm (3/4 socket). Have to have them loose before the lower control arm comes off, it is basically under tension and would require massive pounding to get it to move forward, so don't do that.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 08, 2013, 06:07:31 PM
Well, went to Autozone to rent their balljoint puller tool deal, and they don't have it to work with this car. They don't even have the socket. Fun part of the stop was the guy didn't believe that I needed bigger than 1 5/8' socket. Proved him wrong. Had the new ball joint with me. 
Onto other parts of the project, I have part numbers for the calipers and disks, I'll take a look at the spindles that I pulled off to find the part number off of that. I'm wondering where the parts came from, and if it's not a stock spindle, I want to make sure the tie rods are the correct ones. Does anybody have any tips besides googling part numbers to find out what they came off of?
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 08, 2013, 07:05:19 PM
Rob
Before you start to loosen those T Bard, clean and oil the threads the best you can first.  You'll see why soon enough.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 09, 2013, 05:29:17 PM
With the t-bars, I'm guessing I loosen them as much as I can at the rear adjustment, and then pull the cotter pin and nuts off the front end? If so, I can knock that out after work tomorrow, then everything will be apart. At least as far as I know. LOL!
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 09, 2013, 06:34:43 PM
Sorry Rob.  Haven't been feeling well the last 2 weeks.

In the mean time, PM your address
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 09, 2013, 08:19:41 PM
Rob, do you have a welder? If so, tack a small bar across the top of the balljoint and use a monkey wrench and cheater bar to break it loose. Once it starts moving, it isn't that bad. I have actually done a tiny tack weld on one side of the mating surface of the upper balljoints to make sure they do not move in the future, and all it takes is a hacksaw or sawsall to make the tiny cut to break them apart. Heck, I have even gotten them loose with a monkey wrench by itself. That, or take them down to the front end store itself (family places have the older tools needed more often than not), and give him $20 to change out the top balljoints and bushings. Did that on the Charger a few years back.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 10, 2013, 08:35:34 AM
I have the tools Ed.
My health has deteriorated dramatically
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 10, 2013, 01:39:30 PM
OK, yeah, that's fine, but you also need to get yourself taken care of, got it? You are in my prayers if that helps any.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 13, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
Ok, so I started playing with the car again, found a local that has the ball joint socket, so hopefully I'll be able to get that part taken care of. Since the torsion bars were pointed out, I've been messing with those, however....I really don't know what I'm doing. LOL! I got the adjustment screw loosened all the way, but from here, I'm at a loss. Any tips from the more experienced? Do I need to remove the crossmember for this? Any advise is welcome! Thanks all!
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2013, 04:47:28 PM
Let me see if I can find a picture in a parts book for reference.

To take the lower arm out, you need to take the T Bar out.  It slides back, but i forget how they held it on place.  The later cars had a snap ring at the end of the shaft mount.  Then the big nut on the cross member 
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 13, 2013, 06:18:35 PM
That's right. Go to the rear of the torsion bar and you will see the ring along with the ends that are sticking out, about half an inch 90 degree bend ends. Just grab one of the two ends with a pair of plyers and they pull out. from there, you will see a strut rod going from the lower control arm to the front radiator support of the frame, remove both nuts, then, undo the nut that goes from the inner side of the lower control arm located at the front end of the torsion bar (bar on back of the control arm, nut on the front end of the control arm). Once this nut is removed, take a prybar and pry the lower control arm backwards, the torsion bar will slide through the rear or the crossmember in the rear, the strut will fall out, and the lower control arm will come off. Once it is loosened, pull the control arm off the torsion bar and the torsion bar will come out for cleaning. Remember, don't attach anything to the torsion bar that will nick or scar it, it damages them. Note the front of the bar and left and right side, get them in the same as they came out.
 
The bushing in the lower control arm is a pain to get out, there is a spindle of sorts that is pressed into it going forward, which is pressed in and out, the bushing then has to be peeled out with a chisel. I usually bend the front lip of it towards the center and pry it until it comes out. The one on the spindle can be laid on a flat metal surface and hit until it stretches the metal, or, gently, score it with a flat chisel until it cracks (or a combo of the two methods). Caution installing so the inside shell doesn't break apart when installing it on the spindle and then into the lower control arm, so press the whole busing into the lower control arm and then supporting the bottom side of the bushing, press the spindle into the inner shell (if the shell inside isn't supported, the pressing will push the shell out of the rubber between the inner and outer of the two shells.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 13, 2013, 06:20:59 PM
In your picture of all the new parts, the double shelled bushing for the lower control arm, it's the two bushings located at the top of the picture, between the two upper balljoints, the upper A arm bushings (4) are right below them.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2013, 01:48:37 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/59front.jpg)

Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 15, 2013, 04:47:24 PM
Good picture. Yeah, the torsion bar is released from the rear of the bar instead of at the front control arm. My bad on that, too many B bodies, forgot this was a C or older design. The nut/washer and shaft 2-15-4 is the oddity, later they simply pressed the shaft into the bushing and then into the lower control arm.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2013, 07:08:07 PM
It's still that way on the lower Ed.  You need a special extraction tool for the shaft so not to damage the A Arm
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 21, 2013, 03:48:47 PM
Welp, the front end is completely apart. Drivers side took a bit, but once I figured everything out, got it done, and then the Passenger side was easy. Also, if I understand correctly, the shafts are pressed into the lower control arms, along with the nuts? I haven't tried taking them out yet. I wanted to be sure on this before I tried. Anyway, on to the pics!!
 
(http://https:/sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1004802_10151491731825841_343010755_n.jpg)
 
(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1012196_10151491730955841_316644838_n.jpg)
 
(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/992818_10151490182330841_1013250384_n.jpg)
 
And as most of the parts sit now:
(http://https:/fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/73354_10151489896185841_707542801_n.jpg)
 
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 21, 2013, 07:23:36 PM
Look inside the end and if there is a nut and washer, remove it before you start doing anything with it. If it taps out with a hammer, great (don't damage the threads pounding on it, put the nut back on the end when pressing it when you get to that point, until it is loosened up. In this case, let us know what is there.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2013, 05:20:55 PM
It requires a special tool to remove the shaft.  There is no nut inside.  It's a press fit.
 
It can be done on a press, but it's a bit dangerous for the parts.
 
Once the shaft is out, then you have the project of getting the old bushing sleeve out.  A hot wrench comes in handy.
 
There's a tool for the uppers too.  You can change them yourself.
 
Look between the shaft and the control arm.  Right where it goes in.  If the bushing is bulging out or torn, change them.  If not and they look nice from the outside, leave them.
 
The biggest thing that kills those bushings is bad shocks.  Very important
 
Those are the bushing tools I was asking you about.
 
Yup Ed.  I'm still alive
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 22, 2013, 07:57:30 PM
Press the rod out of the control arm, then do as I said before to remove the sleeves. IF you don't want to remove the sleeves and do an easier job, get a set of Poly bushings instead of rubber. They use the original metal sleeves and replace the rubber part, so it really helps in the replacement, they push in with your fingers and a little bit of silicone grease, usually supplied with the bushing, and they work really well.
 
Thanks Steve, was looking at 36 hours without a response, getting worried. Couple Navy Rum and Cokes and hearing from you, feeling pretty good.
 
 
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2013, 08:57:24 PM
And my nightly Brandy is tipped to you.
I have a good blast every night to easy the pain for sleeping and it thins my blood.  2 dangerous pills I don't have to take
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2013, 09:01:39 PM
What are you thinking Ed.
The bushings are an assembly.  When removing the shaft, hopefully the bushing stays on the shaft assembled.  You usually end up chissling out the insert in the control arm and grinding the inner sleeve real thin and splitting it off the shaft.  A real PITA
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 23, 2013, 07:13:02 AM
Absolutely, and yes, they are a pain to replace, but a polygraphite bushing retains the factory original metal shells, one that is on the lower control arm and the one on the spindle, so both stay in place and a poly bushing is greased and simply pushed into place. Bashing and cutting not needed. The earlier directions I gave were the best way to remove the bushing shells and replace the whole bushing, and if one does not want to go to all this work, which is about an hour a bushing when you have practice, spend the money on poly bushings and be done with it.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on July 28, 2013, 08:45:32 AM
Welp, I broke down and had a shop swap the bushings for me. I didn't want to brake anything. The drivers side is back together, going to be working on the passengers side today, then just need to bleed the brakes, and take it to get the alignment done. I'm getting antsy to drive her again. It's been a couple of months due to the heat. LOL!! Will post pics later on today.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: dana44 on July 28, 2013, 09:23:42 AM
Yeah, sure saves a lot of time, and they usually know what they are doing, so time and money is worth the effort.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on August 03, 2013, 01:17:41 PM
So update, work is finished....or so I thought...the threading on the new tie rod end is too long to get the car aligned. I need to get shorter ones. The drivers side is off by 1.66° and passenger side is off 3°…fun.
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Rob Molloy on August 13, 2013, 08:50:22 AM
Ok, so I'm trying to work with PST to get different tie rod ends, and they have a few different ones for that year of Chrysler. Does anybody know where I can find the measurements for the Saratoga outter ends?  Thanks!





 
rob_molloy2013-08-13 14:15:03
Title: Front end rebuild kit
Post by: Steve on August 13, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
measure the old ones