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Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Robert Rottman on December 19, 2012, 01:13:46 PM

Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on December 19, 2012, 01:13:46 PM
I've had a vibration problem in my 57 Belvedere ever since I bought the car in 2010. (during acceleration only @ ~ 30mph). Removed driveshaft this past summer and took it to two machine shops/driveshaft specialists. They both said it was ok and were reluctant to look into it deeper at all...They both just felt the front ball & trunnion joint and rear X-u-joint. They could not spin it to check the balance because they had no way to mount it in their lathe. So I reluctantly put it back in car and of course...still had the vibration during acceleration ~ 30 mph. Fast forward to right now. I removed the driveshaft again and dug a little deeper this time myself. Found one needle roller missing on one of the balls in the ball & trunnion joint up front.  I think this could be the source of the vibration. Now...I can get a rebuild kit but they're $220. Where can I find just one needle roller? It's .062" in dia...and .655" long. Would anyone here have any of these laying around?
 
Thanks, Bob
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 19, 2012, 01:35:45 PM
Bob  Rotate the drive shaft 180* in the year yoke and see what happens
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on December 19, 2012, 05:04:09 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Bob  Rotate the drive shaft 180* in the year yoke and see what happens
 
 

Steve, I don't plan to put the driveshaft back in until I find a needle roller so that one ball housing will be full. I'm hoping this will fix the vibration. I did mark it with chalk before removing so with all the needles in place I do want to put it back in exactly same way it was in before. If this doesn't fix it, I certainly can try rotating it 180*...
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 19, 2012, 08:17:19 PM
somewhere around here I have a ball and trunion repair kit.  The last time I went up in the shop attic I got 5 staples in my head and 42 stitches in my elbow
 
But I'll be glad to go up and look for ya
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Brian on December 19, 2012, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
somewhere around here I have a ball and trunion repair kit.  The last time I went up in the shop attic I got 5 staples in my head and 42 stitches in my elbow
 

 
Put on your Helmet, and your Hockey gear before you do that....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Brian on December 19, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
If your driveshaft a solid one piece unit?  Or is it a cardan style?  Or a two piece shaft held together with rubber?
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on December 20, 2012, 05:14:27 AM
Hopefully this will answer your question Bryan...Chrysler used the ball and trunnion type driveshaft in the 50's - mid 60's (on the front) with (sort of a) traditional X-type u-joint in the rear.
 
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/57plymouthdriveshaftande-brakephotos006.jpg)
 
Steve, If you have a kit...keep it as a kit. They're going for $220 now!! I was hoping someone had an old ball and trunnion type driveshaft sitting around and could spare one little old needle roller out of it for me....or they had some sitting in a hardware drawer on their bench. Plus I don't want you getting hurt again...What the heck happened to you...to get all those staples in your head and elbow? 


Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Brian on December 25, 2012, 12:00:15 PM
So are you looking for a needle roller out of one of the cups of the rear U-joint?   Or are there rollers, and needle bearings on the front ball sections?  I'm unfamiliar with the bare bones mechanics of that front trunnion style set-up.



Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Guests on December 25, 2012, 05:55:05 PM
I too never realized there were needle bearings in the balls, thought they were just greased case hardened balls with a hole in them for the cross shaft and lots of grease.
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on December 26, 2012, 08:26:34 AM
[/QUOTE]
 

I'm looking for just one little old needle roller that goes in one of the front balls. I've inspected both sides; one is chuck full and the other is missing one. That may be my source of vibration. I'll try to post a photo later.
 
Thanks guys...for looking/caring...
 
Bob
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 26, 2012, 11:42:14 AM
Quote from: dana44
I too never realized there were needle bearings in the balls, thought they were just greased case hardened balls with a hole in them for the cross shaft and lots of grease.


 
I was starting to wonder where you were coming from.
 
Bob, I have 2 of those shafts.  I was hoping to get this straightened out before the snow fell.  Too late.
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Brian on December 26, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
Maybe you can use a small needle bearing from another U-joint.  Something newer, and more readily available?
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 26, 2012, 12:57:11 PM
The only problem with that is the needles are shorter than the ones in the cup.  He'd have to gring them down.  I can't see missing one causing that much of a vibration.
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Snotty on December 27, 2012, 09:48:10 AM
Bob, when the B&T wet out in the New Yorker (over twelve years ago) I had to get the entire kit for just one small piece.  If you have found one for $220, buy it!!  I paid over $400.  

There are 2 sizes of those, by the way.  Be sure you are getting the correct one.

Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 27, 2012, 10:53:37 AM
I still have that Scott.
 
Soemday, I'll get back on that darned car
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on December 27, 2012, 04:58:33 PM
If I decided to get the front b&t rebuild kit for $220...I think it would wise to put a new X u-joint on the back too ($100). Now we're up to $320 + shipping...I think it would be a no-brainer to pay a little more and get a modern new driveshaft. I can get a whole new driveshaft made with modern style u-joints for $395 + shipping.  
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Snotty on December 29, 2012, 09:49:08 AM
You will need one with a slip-joint on the front.  One of the pictures on this thread has one on it.
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on December 29, 2012, 10:08:33 AM
How long is that shaft in total length.  Maybe this one is the answer for you.  It's already done
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on January 06, 2013, 05:45:06 PM
Just about 57" Steve...again, it came out of a 57 Belvedere.
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Steve on January 06, 2013, 07:32:34 PM
57 from where to where?
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on January 07, 2013, 06:46:09 AM
Well, I did a quick measurement of the driveshaft on the bench last night...didn't feel like crawling under car. Obviously the b&t end is spring loaded so with that end of the driveshaft relaxed on bench, I measured from the end of the b&t yoke to the X u-joint rear mounting ears. I was going to go out there right now to measure under the car from e-brake drum mounting surface to yoke mounting surface at rear end...but I have the e-brake drum out right now. I'm going to take it in to machine shop today. Let me get back to you after I get it back in car with a more precise measurement Steve...
Thanks! Bob
Title: 1957 Belvedere driveshaft
Post by: Robert Rottman on January 08, 2013, 02:56:16 AM
Update: I managed to get a local machine shop to turn/resurface my e-brake drum yesterday. I have one little needle roller for the b&t end cap coming from Big M auto/John Fowlie out in Williams, California.  Nicest guy you ever want to meet.
 
 http://www.bigmauto.com/ (http://www.bigmauto.com/)