MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Rob Roche on August 28, 2011, 06:05:18 PM

Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 28, 2011, 06:05:18 PM
Hey Gang
 
Found a "'64 413 from a New Yorker" nearby (Bakersfield, Ca.) on CL. But it's red.....the same year 413 in my NYker parts car is Turquoise.....the one in the ad is grimey and dirty enough it could be original paint....suposedly a runner. Any 413's come painted red? or am I looking at a motorhome or farm implement engine.
 
Is it even a 413 or might something else be lurking under the dirt and the seller is clueless.
 
Considering where it is and it's a Mopar, the price is certainly reasonable (anything Mopar 'round these parts tends to be plated in Gold).
 
TIA
 
Ridgecrest Rob
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on August 28, 2011, 07:59:58 PM


No they were only Tourqoise.  The only Bib Blocks in red were Orange TNT motors.  If it's a real orange motor. . .Gold Mine
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 28, 2011, 08:51:03 PM
Thanks Polarco
 
I'll give the guy a holler. It's definatly a reddish/orange color and the casting number listed is for a 413.....
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on August 28, 2011, 09:58:47 PM
Weren't the Max Wedge 413s red, along with the 426 Max Wedge, along with chrome valve covers and the super intake and exhaust manifolds? Heads were larger port on the 426MW, not sure about the ports on the 413.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on August 29, 2011, 11:01:15 AM
OK  MAX Wedge. . .  I refered to it as TNT
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 29, 2011, 11:21:27 AM
I called the seller. He said it came out of a '63 New Yorker he bought at one of those charity auctions. pulled the engine then tossed the car. im wondering if it's a really old respray or it came from something else. going to look at it Thursday. he said it ran like a scalded ape but with no brakes on the car, he didn't push his luck.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on August 29, 2011, 01:32:05 PM
OK, so, the best thing to do to double check the color I think would be to say you want to scrape the paint at the engine date code boss to check the year, June 1963 was the 426 Max Wedge. I think another indicator of it being a MW would be the head connection at the intake manifold, the ports were larger on the MW, giving the stock manifold a close fit to close off the ports. Now, if the boss says 42 or 426 instead of the 41 or 413, GRAB IT in a heartbeat, and if it hasn't been changed out, would have a dual points distributor. Look on the side of the block for the date stamp, too, located on the left hand side of the engine (xx-xx-xx).


Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, the Max Performance and truck engine casting number is 1852029, regular is 2120529, and 2205697 is passenger car. Good luck.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 29, 2011, 02:40:27 PM
Thanks Dana 44
 
According to the seller, the casting number is 1852029 and the date is 17 Nov '63. I'll know for sure Thursday (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on August 29, 2011, 02:49:33 PM


I'm betting it's a 383 or a 440 TNT motor.  Look at the pads on the front of the motor.  If it's a 383 offer him less.  If the engine size is followed by an HP, steal it and run.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 29, 2011, 03:15:03 PM
The 413 & 426 Max Wedge Dodges & Plymouths were Orange....I'm wondering if it got transplanted into a Chrysler at some point. Or somebody went nuts with a rattle bomb at some point.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on August 29, 2011, 03:29:32 PM
The Max Wedge engine pictures are all red. They were offered in the Dodge and Plymouth, and in a couple trucks as a special truck, about 1400 or so made. A paint scraping and the cast numbers should tell whether it was a repainted, or, how many Max Wedge 413/426 engines were put in the Chryslers? I imagine it was a special engine option, but since that car is gone, go to the two sources, the stamp pad and the engine casting and date in the block, just that simple. There were/are those dozen or less special things that were done by dealers for "those with the money" and "need for the speed", like doctors and businessmen, and the occasional moonshiner(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif).
 
You are right, it may actually be some other engine dropped in there, and since it was a charity auction car, who knows what someone did under the hood. Things like that can be a crap shoot.
 
How about a Mercury story my dad used to tell. He had a 49 Mercury coupe and a smoking flathead under the hood. His neighbor was a doctor and liked his Lincolns. Well, his latest one had a 430 in it, and it had a lot of money put into it, he was a doctor and a doctor had to get places fast. Anyway, he hit some black ice up in the Black Diamond mountains one night and he survived, but the car went over an embankment and landed about 200 feet down a cliff. Dad asked the neighbor what he was going to do to the car, neighbor said ask the insurance company, the car was totalled. Dad went down, asked if he could have the engine and transmission, guy said he would never get that engine up the cliff, but if he could, a dollar would be a reasonable cost for the time and effort to do such a feat. Dad went to grandpa's cafe, stole a case of beer out of the reefer, got six of his buddies and they drank the beer then drug this engine and transmission up the cliff, next morning put a dollar bill on the insurance guy's desk, got a bill of sale for the engine.
 
There is a real good retread story that goes with this, but for now, an engine coming out of a car does not mean it was the original engine in the car to begin with, especially as far back as the 60s.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on August 29, 2011, 07:29:56 PM


What I'm saying is the 413 was never a max wedge.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on August 29, 2011, 08:21:18 PM
Yeah, it was for a couple years. Max Wedge 413, NOT stage III,
 
http://www.moparcarsforsale.net/mopar-413-max-wedge-engine-on-test-stand.php (http://www.moparcarsforsale.net/mopar-413-max-wedge-engine-on-test-stand.php)
 
and this:
 
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=FL0109-77061&entryRow=435 (http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=FL0109-77061&entryRow=435)
 
dana442011-08-30 01:26:27
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on August 29, 2011, 08:47:09 PM
Oh I know it's no dog....my Uncle had a 426W in his '64 Polara 500 4spd. Back in his Air Force days. I remember getting my eyeballs smashed against the back of my skull a few times riding in it....it loved 3rd gear :) That car is lurking in a garage somewhere in Boise Idaho now.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on August 29, 2011, 09:04:31 PM
Time to look at the block boss and verify its size.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on September 01, 2011, 02:39:31 PM
Just got a big greasy lump home and unloaded. cleaned the boss off and....

okay, so it's a 413. Whats the 5    15 mean? Is this a truck engine? It's also orange all the way to bare metal. So either it's original or got rebuil and repainted the wrong color at some point. A few of the freeze plugs look newish.
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on September 01, 2011, 03:37:11 PM
Found my wife's camera...:)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316299.jpg)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316300.jpg)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316301.jpg)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316302.jpg)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316304.jpg)
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316305.jpg)

What it's going in!
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1789/7783792/19288237/398316306.jpg)



Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on September 01, 2011, 04:06:12 PM


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/413red.jpg)
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Guests on September 01, 2011, 06:59:20 PM
Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, the Max Performance and truck engine casting number is 1852029, meaning it was the stronger casting of the 413,  and the -2 means it was the second of eight casting sets used, so little to no cast shifting has occurred, cast November 1963, but not too sure how many motor homes these were dropped into back in 1963/64 timeframe, but know it is a tough enough block. So the next thing to do is check the head casting number according to this list. And the hits just keep on rolling.....





 Casting #
 Chamber Vol.
 Intake Valve
 Exhaust Valve
 Comments

 2406158
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.6
  1967 440

 2463200
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1963 361/383/413/426

 2406209
 81cc
 2.08
 1.88
  1963 Max zWedge

 3751213
  
 2.08
 1.74
  1973 400/440 motorhome     

 2402286
 81cc
 2.08
 1.88
  1962 413 Max Wedge

 2206324
  
 2.08
 1.74
  1961-67 361/383/413

 2268341
  
  
  
  1965 426

 3462346
 79.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1971-up 383/440

 3462346
 81.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1972-73 400/440

 4006452
 81.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1976-78 400/440

 3614476
 86+cc
 2.08
 1.74
  Stage 4

 1851509
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.6
  1959 361/383/413 HP

 2406516
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.6
  1964-67 361/383/413/425 300L

 2406518
 86cc
 2.08
 1.88
  1964 Max Wedge

 2408520
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.6
  1964 late 300K with ram intake

 2128521
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.6
  1960 361/383/413 300F

 2128522
 73.5cc
 1.94
 1.6
  1960-61 361/383

 1851524
  
  
  
  1958-71 350-413 Truck

 2264547
  
  
  
  1960-71 413, 361 Truck

 2402557
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1963 300J & early 300K

 2202594
  
  
  
  1958-71 Truck

 1737622
 73.5cc
 1.94
 1.6
  1958-60 350/361/383

 1737635
 73.5cc
 1.94
 1.6
  1958 350/361

 2466676
  
  
  
  1971-77 413, 361 Truck and Maring

 1844705
 73.5cc
 1.94
 1.6
  1958-59 350/361/383

 1944705
  
  
  
  1958 350, 1961 361

 1406740
  
 1.94
 1.6
  1958-59 HD 361 Truck

 2406740
  
  
  
  1963-68 361, 413 Truck & Marine

 2406780
  
  
  
  1965-67 383 Truck

 2806887
  
  
  
  426 Marine & Industrial

 2843906
 79.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1968-71 383/440

 2899913
  
  
  
  1960-71 413 Truck

 2708915
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1967 440 HP

 2206924
 73.5cc
 2.08
 1.74
  1961-62 361/383/413, 1961 300G, 1962 413 300-H

 2899943
  
  
  
  1971-77 413, 361 Truck

 3769975
 83.1cc
 2.08
 1.74

Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Steve on September 01, 2011, 07:36:47 PM


Dodge Mo Homes started in 61.  As I recall, they used either the Poly or the 413.  The 413 was the preference.   But yeah, that particular engine is of the tougher alloy.  That's the alloy they used in the Magnums and maybe currently.  Suckers could go 100K with .003 ridges
Title: 413 Colors
Post by: Rob Roche on September 01, 2011, 09:47:27 PM
Okay, pulled a valve cover. The casting number on the head looks like 2406516. Although the 6's look almost exactly like 8"s but as there doesn't appear to be a 2408518, I'm pretty sure they are 6's. So I have a nice shiny clean set of 516 heads on what looks like a very clean engine (inside). I think this thing was recently gone through. Tomorrow, I'll pull the plugs and squirt a little oil in each cylinder, then see if it's completely loose, I know the crank moves, but I only turned it a tiny bit.