Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Bob Schaefer on July 14, 2011, 08:11:59 AM

Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 14, 2011, 08:11:59 AM
So, here I was going to take the wife on a test drive around the block in the wagon. So I had already warmed it up, but I had shut it off to tighten the fan belt a bit. We got in, and I started it up, and gave it just a little rev, and it floored itself... My wife was scared not quite to death.. I jumped out, popped the hood, and unstuck the throttle, and it calmed down.
Here's the thing... In the process, it obliterated the fan belt, and one of the alternator belts popped off. I also noticed it was running kinda rough before I shut it off.
I know I need to replace the belts. Probably should have done that anyway. I just hope that the high RPM's didn't do any other damage. I will change the oil, too, and see if anything comes out.
Anyway, so much for my test drive.
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Steve on July 14, 2011, 09:18:05 AM

On the dual belts, try to get 2 belts from the same batch so they are exactly the same.  Years ago you used to be able to buy them as a matched set.  Now you'll have to look at the lot numbers printed on the belt.  Water pump is obviously the most important.
POLARACO2011-07-14 14:18:39
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 14, 2011, 06:27:18 PM

I'm gonna do an oil change before I go anywhere, and see if anything comes out. I did read the posts about oil, and will make sure it has the additives, like ZDDP. 
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Guests on July 14, 2011, 06:46:59 PM
The running rough can be the high rpm and the lifters pumping up, keeping the valves slightly open from being too tight when the lifters pump up too much, so kind of a built-in rev limiter and kind of prevents the valves from bouncing, kind of a good thing in this situation. The sputtering is kind of a diesel effect when more than ample air is allowed, which is still pulling ample fuel because the pump is still pumping and besides, the carb itself will run another 5 seconds at full throttle with fuel shut off, so it will sputter and stuff, still not a big deal. Return springs are usually the culprit, followed by the throttle cable itself catching on itself or one of the wire weaves coming undone and catching.  Belts stretching and breaking is high torque, the faster something spins the more it wants to move outward. Think of the kids playground merry go round and the faster you spin it the faster the kids fly off it( Belts are only so strong, which is why they moved up to the six and seven ribbed serpentine belt with shorter distances between pulleys to reduce the expance, along with the fact they now use kevlar to keep them from destroying things when they come apart. Kevlar is great. No, no, no kenetic energy when it breaks.
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 15, 2011, 04:07:14 AM
This was very encouraging, and downright educational. Thank you, Ed. I will get the good belts today... the ones on it were old anyway, and that was my next thing to do. Had the throttle not gotten stuck, and I just did the trip around the block, things would have been fine.
I presume that it's worth getting the Gates belts for $14-$18 each, instead of the House Brand belts for $5 each....
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Guests on July 15, 2011, 09:02:32 AM
Here's a little story to help you understand the beauty of kevlar itself.
In the Navy, ships are tied up with three inch diameter ropes called hausers. They were made from nylon for several decades and would stretch and, if the hausers stretched too much, would smoke, turn hot, then snap at the end of the stretching point. When they came apart, like a rubber band, they would cut off arms, legs, leave dents in half inch steel plates, about half a dozen men would be killed each year from the nylon hausers breaking.
In 1993, there were said to be ten ships, five on each coast, that got the new three inch hauser lines made of kevlar. The guys liked the way they handled, liked the way they felt, and it was pretty cool that when the ship moved in and out from the pier, the difference was that nylon would stretch and squeak, the kevlar kind of gently clunked and stopped. So, after using the lines for a couple years, we had one break. A Korean tug boat was pulling and pushing the ship at the pier, and for some reason he decided to pull much harder than he was ordered to, to which the line was overstressed. As soon as the guys heard and saw what was going on, a clear the deck was ordered, the kevlar hauser clunked, then a couple seconds later, kind of a loud thunk sounded, and the kevlar houser was laying on the deck, flat, the other end in the water, kind of like what would happen if you had two guys holding a straight line with maybe 10 pounds of pressure on each end and someone cut it. The thump was the line dropping to the deck (it was about 350 pounds of hauser), so at that point, when this happened, within a month the kevlar hausers were on every ship on both coasts and all ships. Anything that can reduce death and destruction with these results, yeah, worth the cost. Breaking hauser accident reports went to zero as far as death and dismemberments go, and hey, that's real savings.
As far as the Gates belts go, if you are restoring something to factory original, then get the OEM belts, but for durability and reliability, get the better Gates belts.
As far as your belt breaking episode went, double check the alignment of the belts once they are back on, make sure they are running true. Then make sure the alternator itself has a brace/bracket at the rear side of the alternator, the high torque/rpm likes to, as the belt starts spinning outward and pull on the alternator, bend the outer side of the alternator towards the water pump, thus breaking/ pulling off. Used to do it with the 361 in my 68 Charger until I finally thought about why it was doing it.
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 15, 2011, 09:33:58 AM
Another good point... There's only what I believe is the stock mounting hardware. Just the one bold holding it on, and the ajduster.
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Guests on July 15, 2011, 09:54:13 AM
There should be a location on the back of the alternator where a bolt can go, and there are some alternator brackets that are like a cage that supports the alternator on both sides to stop the twisting.
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2011, 11:33:47 AM

My .02.  Hope some of that was useful.  I am not trying to insult intelgences
Title: I hope I didn't break it...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 15, 2011, 02:14:06 PM

I don't feel insulted at all... I appreciate any and all advice. I agree on the cheaper belts.. I only got them because nobody had 2 of the Gates AC belts, and I want to get the car going, and test driven. Later on, I'll order the set from Rock Auto, and it'll be cheaper than buying them locally, even with shipping.