MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - STEERING WHEELS AND SUSPENSION => Topic started by: attkrlufy on June 20, 2011, 08:18:12 AM

Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: attkrlufy on June 20, 2011, 08:18:12 AM
So....minor setback....

The company I asked to make four new swaybar links for me so I could switch to universal bushings apparently can't do quality work.  2 of the 4 links (one in the front, one in the back) have snapped where the link meets the bushing "perch".  They lasted about a month.

I don't want to use them again since I said from the get-go that this was for an HD application as the car is heavy.  Since they're the only game in town, I have to go back - what should I tell them to do?  Is there a proven way to really beef-up the contact point where the link meets the perch?  Is there, like, a collar, or something, that will increase the diameter of that joint to make the weld stronger?


Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 20, 2011, 09:55:12 AM
Can you show a picture of the break? I am not sure exactly what you are talking about, but it should mean thicker metal overall, just want to make sure. If it is the weld itself that broke, that's just bad welding.
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Jason Goldsack on June 20, 2011, 04:34:22 PM
I would like to see it too...


Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: attkrlufy on June 20, 2011, 07:04:13 PM
Okay.  I'm going to take them off tomorrow.  I'll get pics for you guys.

Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 20, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
OK.
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Steve on June 21, 2011, 07:43:54 AM


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ  I was asleep Dom.  What I miss?
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: attkrlufy on June 21, 2011, 04:44:59 PM

Quote from: POLARACO

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ  I was asleep Dom.  What I miss?
Where have I heard that before....oh, right.  From my wife.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  Anyway, here are the pics.

Broken front link still in the car:

(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/attkrlufy/Online%20posting/Brokenswaybarfront1.jpg)

A bit more detail for the same link:

(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/attkrlufy/Online%20posting/Brokenswaybarfront2.jpg)

Broken rear link still in the car:



(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/attkrlufy/Online%20posting/Brokenswaybarrear1.jpg)



A bit more detail for the same link:

(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/attkrlufy/Online%20posting/Brokenswaybarrear2.jpg)

As you can see - they snapped clean off at the weld point.  That shouldn't have happened.  The weld SHOULD'VE been the strongest point, not the weakest.  Someone was asleep at the welder.

Here's something interesting - a pic of the plate from the front link that wasn't broken.  It's CLEARLY bent and twisted:

(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/attkrlufy/Online%20posting/Brokenwarpedswaybarfront1.jpg)

An engineer friend of mine calculated the force acting against these links at 1583.3 ft/lbs on each link.  What can I say - a New Yorker is a heavy car.

I think it's too much torque for the 3/8" shafts and 1/8" plate.  I'm going to try going up to a 1/4 plate and a thicker shaft.

So here's the dilemma: do I go with a "known" expensive product - $250 for 4 links, ouch! - from Firm Feel Industries (scroll to the bottom of the page to see their HD links)......:

http://www.firmfeel.com/swaybars_b.htm (http://www.firmfeel.com/swaybars_b.htm)

......or do I go back to the guys that didn't exactly weld this properly in the first place and see if they can't fabricate something more HD at half the price?  They said they would make 4 HD links for me for about $150 since they feel bad about screwing up the first batch.






Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 21, 2011, 05:59:35 PM
There is nothing really wrong, it was just done shotty. The rod was not welded onto the metal, there was a pin centering to hold it in place and was probably welded on the back and ground smooth then painted or something, IT WAS NOT WELDED PROPERLY ON THE OUTSIDE RIM OF THE ROD. Now, you can also tell this by the rust ring. A weld will not leave a rust ring, it will be burned in and not smooth the way it looks.
 
The plates could use a little more thickness, a little harder metal would be a good idea, too, or, after the links are rewelded on the outside where the rod has the lip, heat them and cool them quickly, and then heat them and let them air cool. This will treat the softer metal to a brittle hardness, then the second one will remove the brittle (History channel, how to treat metals for knives). Quarter inch metal for the flat piece would be good, or, here is the ultimate way to keep them from bending. You need a three sided square box channel. It needs to be wide enough that it will fit inside the channel, and if you need to use a little notch around the sway bar itself, that would be OK, also. The ends of the sides could be rounded by the bolts to look nice and closer to factory. width needs to be as wide as the outer edge of the bushing and about 3/8ths inch tall to really stiffen them up.
 
Picture to follow (hopefully).
 
 uploads/300/swaybarrod.xps.1.jpg (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/300/swaybarrod.xps.1.jpg)
 
dana442011-06-21 23:24:23
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Steve on June 21, 2011, 07:24:09 PM


I would take that to a welder and have him redo them.  Or in my case, crank up the Mig
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: firedome on June 22, 2011, 06:04:10 AM
Me, I'd bite the bullet and go with the proven product.. it's your and
your families life riding on the suspension, no place to cut corners:
brakes, steering, suspension, tires.  Just mo. 

Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 22, 2011, 06:57:25 AM
If the welder does the rod properly and welds the outside edge, the extra support I talked about and took the time to draw pictures and scan, convert and download will more than fix the problem of the bending.
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: firedome on June 22, 2011, 12:36:46 PM
But they probably don't run instrumented stress tests with strain
gauges, which is the right way to design and prove a suspension part,
not to mention proper metallugical specification testing.  Time to
move past the blacksmith era, at least on my cars :-)


firedome2011-06-22 17:39:40
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 22, 2011, 02:08:22 PM
My picture engineering will not bend, which is what the issue really is, the welding is just a bad weld job which could happen to anyone with little to no experience.
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Steve on June 22, 2011, 03:04:18 PM


The ones on my sway bar have 5/16 grade 8 bolts going up.  I have a 1" after market
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: attkrlufy on June 23, 2011, 06:10:26 PM
I decided to give the machine shop in Ithaca another shot.  The owner felt bad about the crappy job his guy did, so he said he'd cut me a good deal on fabricating four new links from scratch.

Dana44 - I used your design but the guy modified it a bit.  He said the wings were overkill.  :)  He admitted it WOULD NEVER BEND if it was built that way, but he said there was a cheaper and more time-efficient way of going about it.  So we'll see.  We're going to use 1/4" plate and the link will have a much thicker bar (I want to say either 5/8" or 3/4").  It's also going to be a bit shorter - about 1/4".

Now if THAT bends - well, he said he'd weld the wings on for free.

They'll be ready Monday - just in time to make it to my first car show of the year on Wednesday at 5:30PM in Dundee, NY.

You going Roger?  It's not too far from Bingo.  :)  I know for a fact there will be at least one other '79 NYer there and it's a beauty.


Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Guests on June 24, 2011, 08:49:14 AM
Overkill, sure, but guaranteed not to bend, specially with the amount of force these things have on them, with all that weight, I do redesigns of things so they don't have the possibility of coming a part until physical metal fatigue whenever possible.
Title: How to reinforce swaybar links?
Post by: Brian on June 25, 2011, 10:40:59 AM
I'm a big fan of overkill.  I can picture the design Dana mentioned din my head and I too have thought of designs similar to it.

But the heavy bar and rod will be a quick and easy solution, and you should get years of care free driving out of it.