MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Jason Goldsack on April 16, 2011, 06:52:19 AM

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 16, 2011, 06:52:19 AM
OK.. I have reinstalled the intake cause it leaked and fouled the plugs... but it still has an intermittent pop as I drive...

It has new plugs, new points, new cap and rotor...   WTF could be making this pop..

You can hear it in the muffler as you drive.. like a little misfire.. Under acceleration there is no pop..




Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on April 16, 2011, 07:59:56 AM
How is the play on the distributor itself? And how old are the spark plug wires? Did you do a check to ensure the intake isn't still leaking? From there, compression check for a leaking valve.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 16, 2011, 08:33:51 AM
Oh geeze.. I hope a valve isn't leaking the head were remanned by chrysler only 15 000 miles ago and have hardened seats..

I'm going to recheck the intake... the plug wire are 6 years old..

I'm going to check the dizzy..


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on April 16, 2011, 09:40:48 AM


This all started when you pulled the intake originally right?
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 16, 2011, 09:52:28 AM
No .. I pulled the intake because I fouled two plugs with oil and it turned out to be loose intake bolts..

Then I pulled the intake and resealed everything.. now the pop is here and there..

BTW.. I run a Mallory HYfire 1 ignition and a Crane PS91 coil..


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Leaburn Patey on April 16, 2011, 12:28:43 PM
Double check the point gap.
Intermittent misfire can be caused by a bad plug wire.
6 years on the wires?? Change em.
The wires sold through Crappy Tire are actually made by Niehoff-same company who makes factory wires for Mopars.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 16, 2011, 12:53:21 PM
Really? Good to know.. I was going to order some new wires from Mopar for my truck but I will get the crappy tire ones then...

I think I might get a make-your-own set for the windsor.. the bought sets are always ten times too long..

Maybe put on some 8mm wires?

Anyone have an electronic dizzy I could use in the 361.. I think it's time to swap out the points dizzy



Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on April 16, 2011, 06:51:17 PM
Electronic ignition for a 361 is the same for the 383, 400 and 440, the rest of the engines never had it stock (too old), but they all fit inside the stock distributor, and then you have the aftermarket list that is almost endless.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on April 16, 2011, 06:52:09 PM
Quote from: dana44
Electronic ignition for a 361 is the same for the 383, 400 and 440, the rest of the engines never had it stock (too old), but they all fit inside the stock distributor, and then you have the aftermarket list that is almost endless. And yes, replace those wires, six years is really pushing it since they have been broken from the sparkplugs more than once.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Leaburn Patey on April 16, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
The distributor will have to be from a 400--or a modern conversion kit for the b engines.
the 440 dizzy will be too long.
 
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on April 16, 2011, 08:21:29 PM


Popping from the carb is usually lean condition.  Muffler farts is usually a rich condition.  Really rich.  Or I have seen carbon tracking or a cracked Disty cap cause that too
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 17, 2011, 04:51:08 AM

I guess I should have been more specific to a dizzy from a B-engine.. I know they are the same.. just didn't write it..

I'm starting to think about spark scatter... I might have another cap I can cut a hole in and see if I am out of phase... This could have started with the new cap last year when I changed the points/cap and rotor...   it was just made worse by the leaky intake..



1965Windsor3612011-04-17 09:52:08
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 25, 2011, 04:18:32 AM
I pulled the plugs and they look great. The 600 Holley is spot on what the engine seems to like based on the plug colours..

I'm thinking wires like you guys said.. visually they look good and only have 10 000 miles on them but who know how they look on the inside..

 

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 01, 2011, 07:00:29 AM
So.. as an experiment I unplugged the vacuum advance.. the revs dropped down... I had it attached to a timed port on the holley.. but for some reason it seemed to have a little vacuum at idle ( i think)causing the revs to jump up..

I took the car for a drive with the port plugged and the vacuum advance unhooked. The miss seemed to go away..

Can someone explain to me what might have happened/

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on May 01, 2011, 08:51:31 AM
The vacuum advance has a plate inside the distributor that pulls the point forward and backward with the change in vacuum. The distributor may have worn bushings, which may be closing the points more on some of the crowns than other, causuing a miss. Even if you have electronic ignition, if the bushing is worn and can move, the vacuum advance plate may pull against the plate a certain amount to cause the point/EI be more or less than the rest and cause a miss. This advance differs from the mechanical advance, which advances the rotor shaft itself vice the points/EI plate itself. It's a possibility.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 01, 2011, 09:06:56 AM
Ya.. I notice the mileage goes down without the vacuum advance..

I'm almost ready to put in a MP dizzy and ditch the factory points dizzy...


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 01, 2011, 09:16:02 AM


How is the point lead from the points to the disty?  I have seen them cause this problem.  Many moons ago.  Many moons. . . . .. .
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 01, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
I will check all of that...




Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on May 02, 2011, 06:15:52 AM
Change out the distributor first. The mileage may have gone down because the distributor springs themselves may not allow enough advance for economy, a little stiffer than needed at higher rpm.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 02, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
when the engine was reringed in 1997 they recurved the dizzy..

I'm thinking maybe I should put a points eliminator kit in the dizzy...


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2011, 12:39:46 PM


If the bushings are bad, that won't help much.  Those distributors required oiling which I bet was never done.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 02, 2011, 02:00:34 PM
Starting to think I might make a trip to Mancini's for a MP dizzy soon..

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2011, 02:52:09 PM


Summit has a clone for about 30 bucks less
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 02, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
Is it just as good? Would I need to recurve it?

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 03:51:09 AM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-3690431/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-3690431/)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66993/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66993/)


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 03:53:03 AM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850004-1/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850004-1/)


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2011, 08:14:19 AM



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850004/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850004/)
POLARACO2011-05-03 13:15:23
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 12:13:13 PM
Anyone know how they determine the curve to put in the MP dizzy... is it stock type springs or something for an engine with a cam..?

I would think selling a dizzy that would fit all application would be difficult because of the different combinations out there..

When you buy a new one do you buy a spring kit with it? ( I usually get a dizzy off a friend or swap meet.. never bought new before)

What does the adjustable vacuum advance work?



Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2011, 12:20:08 PM
Leanburn knows how to curve dizzys.  Contact him
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 12:22:28 PM
don't tell me he has an old Sun Machine in that garage too.. LOL

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2011, 12:39:33 PM
ahhhhhh   I'm trying to remember, but I know someone who does have one
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 12:44:29 PM
Now that would be a cool old machine to own!!!

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on May 03, 2011, 02:01:38 PM
Have you checked the condition of the distributor or are you just guessing? Not to rank on you or anything like that, but you have to check a few things before we can truly try to identify the problem and fix it. The distributor is in a nice location to work on, and you can get to the screws to remove the points plate, but check the play to see if you can alter the points opening by moving the rotor side to side and front to back first. If so, and if you wnat the original distributor, replace the bushing top and bottom in the case. They are about a buck each and they tap out and tap in, problem fixed. If not, pull the cap, remove the rotor, and the end of the shaft has a felt oil pad. Remove it and there is a wire spring. Remove it (needle nose pliers, long and thin), undo the wire to the points at the coil, undo the two screws for the vacuum advance canister on the side of the dizzy, then the two screws holding the points plate to the housing. All the screws are on the outside of the distributor housing, I think you can get all of them without pulling the distributor. PUll the points plate up, undo the vacuum advance rod (it's kind of fun), and after this is done, look to see if you have two little springs inside the housing. The two springs that work best for the 361 with almost all builds, stock to heavy street performance, 2 and 4 bbl, is one spring that has like 8-10 tight windings, spring about .015 thick wire, all  the windings touching themselves. This is the fast increase in advance spring which gives good advance curve from idle to around 2500rpm. It isn't so fast as to ping, but fast enough so as not to bog. The other one is best as a heavy spring, about .028 thick spring wire, about four or five turns and a space between them. The loop end will actually have a little bit of play in it, this is the higer speed advance which kicks in around 2500rpm and should max out around 3200-3400rpm. Big blocks, no matter which ones they are for Mopar, do not like too quick advance like a small block, total advance in the 35-37degrees is all they like, more than that and they lose mileage. Vacuum advance too quickly is also bad.  twist to see how easily they can spring out and in.
 
Now, if you remove these two springs with a screwdriver underneath the end and snap the spring off the knobs, lift the collar off the shaft and if it is sticky and dirty it will not function properly. Pulll it off and clean it out good, you can use engine oil (a swipe) to lube it up, or white lithium grease, or even graphite bearing grease, just a little smudge where you have a pivot point, the two boomerangs (counterweights for the mechanical advance) have pins they hold onto and can be cleaned and greased. Now, you don't want grease to fly all over the place, you don't need a lot of it, less is more. Last thing you can do is look for a stamp number somewhere on the T collar you pulled off, it gives the mechanical advance you have. It most likely is a 14 through 17, which equates to 28-34 degrees of mechanical advance. Take this number and subtract it from 38 (the max mechanical advance) and this number is how much you can put at the harmonic balancer for initial advance, for best results that is.
 
 
After everything is cleaned, checked and reassembled, put two drops of engine oil on the felt pad that goes on the end of the distributor shaft and you are good to go.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2011, 03:14:41 PM


He was looking at replacing the whole ignition
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 03, 2011, 03:21:48 PM
Jason,Mike66chryslers has the recurving machine.He pops up here once in a blue moon but he is mainly on the Dock.
he is in the Toronto Area so you can ship it to him.PM him.
I got a guy here locally that is also awesome on Mopar dizzy recureves,but he has been busy lately.
 
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 03:29:56 PM
I have a local Mopar wizard too.. he recurved this one back in 1997... I might take it back to him to give it a one over..

I looked at the instructions for my Mallory Hyfire 1A and I can only use it on a points dizzy.. :(

Instead of a MP box I would probably put in an MSD box.. Had good luck in the past..


Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2011, 03:47:25 PM



Electronic ignition eliminates alot of problems.  Especially performance issues.  The quality of todays points just isn't there anymore
POLARACO2011-05-03 21:19:59
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 03, 2011, 03:56:26 PM
I agree... 

Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Guests on May 03, 2011, 04:34:24 PM
OK, sure, fine, complaining about this and that and not knowing what to do, now he does, so yes, I agree, electronic ignition does make it all better, and if the distributor itself isn't warn out too badly, a Mallory Unilite system fits in the distributor and has three wires that come out of it. No special caps, rotors or anything, all inside and in the place of the points and condenser. Whole distributors are good, too.
Title: F-ing Engine
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 06, 2011, 04:24:46 AM

Hopefully picking up an Ignitor I for the dizzy next week... looks simple enough to install.. $89.00 is a heck of a lot cheaper than a whole new Dizzy...

It says you can hook it to the White MSD point wire on an MSD so it should trigger my Mallory Hyfire I.

1965Windsor3612011-05-06 09:25:17