MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: attkrlufy on March 22, 2011, 10:48:19 AM

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: attkrlufy on March 22, 2011, 10:48:19 AM
Down to the final two items (I hope).  I'm swapping out the lean burn for orange box electronic ignition soon.  Since "I'm already there" noodling with wires and such, I figured this is a good time to upgrade the other engine electrics, so I bought an MSD Blaster 2 ignition coil.  My question is about spark plugs and wires:

What type should I get and how much do different "builds" affect performance?

I wanted the MSD to give me more volts for the spark - so I'd like some wires/plugs that will capitalize upon this.  I don't mind spending a couple extra bucks on something that will work - frankly, I'd rather spend $100 on something that gives a noticeable change, than $30 on something that doesn't seem to do a lick of difference, you know?  But I also realize there's a point of "diminishing returns" when it comes to cost.

Wires:

Jegs and Summit seem to have a good selection.  It looks like all the high-end wires have these characteristics and cost around $70-$100:
* Silicon jacket, 8mm+ spiral core
* RFI shielded / suppressed
* 50 ohms/ft resistance

So is it worth it?  Like, if I go 7mm vs 8mm does it matter?  Bigger?  8.5mm+?  Does a spiral core matter?
I imagine the lower the impedance of the wire the more efficient it is at transmitting the spark - is THAT what I should focus on?
I'm also guessing the RFI shielding affects my car's other electrics (like the radio), not the engine, itself.  But since I plan on putting in a "nice" stereo - that's probably a key attribute, right?  Or does it even matter?

Spark plugs:

I'm looking for efficiency/longevity, here.  What will work best wih my new electronic ignition system?  To me, spark plugs are spark plugs....but looking around online there are people who SWEAR it makes a difference once you upgrade the coil.

Thanks.


Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Corey on March 22, 2011, 12:32:12 PM
8mm is a better choice here's why think about the gauge of wires withing the electric system the lower the number in the gauge the thicker the wire which means more strands it also means less resistance for the electrical charge to try to overcome plug wires have a single filament depending on the material it is made of will determine how much resistance is in them less resistance = more fire. plugs is more or less a personal opinion i like running bosch plus 2's in some of my vehicles but there are also mopar guys out there that feel one brand works better than another. the hotter the spark the more complete the fuel burns. with a coil upgrade i would definitely go with a platinum plug
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2011, 01:20:52 PM
I agree with Corey  8MM
 
I suggest you get some of that black split wrap like the stuff they use on wire harness's and wrap them with that as well.  Not that it made much of a difference that I can tell, but it does prevent any possible cross arching from leakage.
 
Summit Racing has the exact same ignition system as the orange box in their own lable for about $35 less.
 
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Corey on March 22, 2011, 06:06:59 PM
that stuff steve is talking about is called wire loom you can get it at any parts store
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Guests on March 22, 2011, 06:58:09 PM
I like solid core wires myself, 8mm is just that much more insulation to help protect it and the radio/arching/sparking, but the best thing about it is, the carbon core wires are designed to make a contact and continue to run electricity through them, and when they are pulled off and the connection broken, break down the resistance thus break contact, thus the second time they are taken off the spark plug you have a fifty percent chance one will missfire. I had this problem with my first Dakota, every second time I changed the plugs I replaced the wires, even Accel wires did this and it was just the way it was (smog required me not to be able to use solid wires). On the other hand, I have solid wires that have lasted as long as a decade without a problem, a little dielectric grease keeps the ends from corroding and lasting this long. Your electronics (MSD) is a good choice, removing the wiring from the wiring harness is a pain, there are sensors and junk all over the place, and hopefully you have a single field wire alternator, but if you have a double field, I will tell how to make it work. Recommend a wiring diagram so you can see all the stuff you can take off and bypass all the unnecessary wiring/sensors, I did it to an 83 Ramcharger and it was fun to say the least.
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2011, 07:05:18 PM
That's old school Ed.  And years ago, you were right.  Now they use a carbon empregnated string in the core so they can make a positive connection with the end terminals 
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Guests on March 22, 2011, 09:28:03 PM
Might be, last time I changed them was in 2004 when I sold the truck, still don't trust them. Only reason I understood why they work this way was from an article somewhere a few years back, so take it for what it's worth, I still like old school solid core wires.
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: firedome on March 23, 2011, 05:38:52 AM
I too use solid core on all old V8s, but I don't care about using the
radio.   Ed is right if you take the carbon wires off and on
they're very sensitive.  For me plugs = NGK only, from my years of
experience every summer working on 2 stroke outboards which are way
harder on plugs than any car. NGK was the ONLY brand that consistently
lasted in them.

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 23, 2011, 09:05:19 AM
I'm not disputing the solid core at all.  I prefer them too.  I just happen to have carbon in Polaraco.  I had one break on me and discovered they changed them to be more reliable
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: attkrlufy on March 23, 2011, 09:36:27 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
Summit Racing has the exact same ignition system as the orange box in their own lable for about $35 less.
I did not know that.  However, I got my sealed mopar orange box kit on ebay, after some careful hunting, for about $20 less than the Summit price.  Sometimes the internet really can come through.  Like [someone] once said, "I'd rather be lucky than good."

Quote from: dana44
... removing the wiring from the wiring harness is a pain, there are sensors and junk all over the place, and hopefully you have a single field wire alternator, but if you have a double field, I will tell how to make it work. Recommend a wiring diagram so you can see all the stuff you can take off and bypass all the unnecessary wiring/sensors.....
Jeebus, Ed, you're scaring the you-know-what out of me.  I understood, literally, none of what you just wrote.  Was that even English?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)

Isn't the leanburn-to-electronic ignition swap supposed to be EASY?  I'm not a "wires" guy - I've never even soldered before - so I'm a bit nervy about doing this, as is.

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 23, 2011, 10:00:59 AM
I think what Ed is trying to say is to remove the wiring for the leanburn.
 
The transformation is easy.  Just the ignition and the carb.  You can out the ignition in the any time and just disconnect the Lean Burn.  It will run on your carb just fine.  Probably better.
 
I saw one guy stuff the control box for the elec ignition inside the leanburn box
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Snotty on March 23, 2011, 10:05:32 AM
I just tried to find where you live.  If you're in a State that requires a Smog Check where factory equipment is the Law (like California) you will need to reinstall that Lean Burn for every inspection.  If so, do not throw it away!
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Jason Goldsack on March 23, 2011, 10:07:58 AM
I bet it would be cleaner without the leanburn...

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Snotty on March 23, 2011, 10:14:14 AM
Maybe, I know it will run better without it.  My '79 360 4bbl Cordoba ran VERY clean, but with the LB it pinged under different circumstances.  When I dumped that for a MP unit, the car ran like a champ!!  I even went 105 pulling my trailer!  But, I had to swap it all out when it came time to smog it.

I also installed a dual-snorkle air cleaner while running the MP set-up.  I kept the original cleaner and other stuff in my shop for the tiems I needed to swap it.
Which reminds me...



 
Don't cut any of the factory wires if you do need to reinstall the LB for inspection purposes.  Bypass the factory wires instead.
 
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 23, 2011, 11:16:00 AM
All he does is gut the pooter housing, put the Orange box in there and tape the wires into the harness.  He has everything he needs for power and grounds for the box in the Leanburn Harness.  Just pull back the wires to the distributor.  Attach the plugs to the housing so they can still be removed when servicing.  Fools the best of them.  I saw it at the inspection station on a Diplomat.
 
Dom. . .Just pull a ground back to the block and a separate one back to the body for grounding the orange box case itself.
 
POLARACO2011-03-23 15:16:37
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: attkrlufy on March 23, 2011, 10:57:12 PM
Well, I gotta get the wires first before I can start worrying about the big bad man telling me my ignition system isn't stock.  :P
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Which reminds me.....I found this spark plug wire "manifesto" the other day.  Apparently, it's seen as "gospel" by commenters around the web, even though it was written by a parts manufacturer.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?  Because, apparently, low wire resistance is not only meaningless, too little of it is BAD (be warned, it's a long read):

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm (http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm)


Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: attkrlufy on March 23, 2011, 11:00:31 PM

Quote from: firedome
For me plugs = NGK only, from my years of
experience every summer working on 2 stroke outboards which are way
harder on plugs than any car. NGK was the ONLY brand that consistently
lasted in them.
Okay, Roger, I'm sold.  So which NGK type?  Any, or only the high-end lines? ("Iridium"?  Really?)

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: firedome on March 24, 2011, 01:06:06 PM
I just use std NGKs and they work just fine... I've read that Magnecor
piece before and from a science viewpoint, I agree with it.  Low
resistance has nothing to do with ignition performance.

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 24, 2011, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: firedome
I just use std NGKs and they work just fine... I've read that Magnecor piece before and from a science viewpoint, I agree with it.  Low resistance has nothing to do with ignition performance.


 
Well it does sort of.  Resistance will lower the voltage.
 
But at 50,000 volts, are you really going to know the difference between 50K and 49,999999?
 
I've used V powers, but always used champs.  Not sold on the V Powers yet.  Right now, Polaraco has AC Platnums and is running really well.  Best this motor has run so far.  But fixing the vacuum leaks helped
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Corey on March 24, 2011, 08:35:52 PM


Someone once told me that the older mopars run really well on champion plugs
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Snotty on March 25, 2011, 05:51:54 PM
That's all I use Corey; they run great.

Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Steve on March 25, 2011, 10:21:33 PM
Quote from: stinger1170
Someone once told me that the older mopars run really well on champion plugs

Yessir That is correct.  I found that out years ago.  Champ made the mopar plugs back then,  They may still be.
 
People say Champs are terrible.  They've always done well for me.
 
Shoving a GM Plug in a Magnum, seemed to work out OK.  But I have to say the V Powers I got, may have not been the long reach required as an upgrade (TSB) in the Magnums.  The AC's are the long reach and have a tiny electrode.  They have about 20K on them and show no wear.  The Platnums are what they say they are, but you need to get the solid platnum.  Not the plated electrodes.
 
Stock ignition in the Magnum will give me a 1"+ arch.  Some of you remember what I went through with the upgraded coil. . .   Ran good, but. . .   Well it blew out 2 mufflers.
Title: Last parts question: Wires and plugs?
Post by: Corey on March 28, 2011, 07:17:00 AM


Well muffler are blowing out are better than something a bit more important lol