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Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: John Wood on February 08, 2011, 02:50:48 PM

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 08, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Hi everyone. haven't been on in a while due to some health problems. I'm trying to find out what engine I have in my 62 Saratoga. the casting number on the side of the block is 2128854. the pad near the distributor has SC2 with a dash after it and below it is the number 20704C with the 2 being smaller than the rest of the numbers. any help would be appreciated
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 08, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
Oh, the car is Canadian.  I was about to say there was no '62 saratoga....

It is my thought that a Sara would have a 383, but when you say it has a pad next to the distributor that would make it a 413.



 
I don't have a book on the numbers.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 08, 2011, 04:17:59 PM
Back up...
 
If the ident "pad" is next to the distributor it would be a "B" - 361 or a 383.  If it's a flat pad or boss opposite the distributor on the right by the intake it is an "RB" - 413 or 426.  (It will certainly not be the latter unless it was swapped in.)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 08, 2011, 04:39:42 PM
Chances are it's a 361.  The 361 was still in use in 65 up there snotty.  Ask Jason. . . . 
 
A Saratoga in Canada was the Newport here in the states.  It was still a 361.  The 300 had the 383 and the New Yorker, well we both know that was a 413.
 
Snotty and I both happen to own 62's.  I bought his and I have had several more.  I also have a 300H.
 
[color=#ccff00 size=7]WELCOME![/color]
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 08, 2011, 05:26:14 PM
2128854, going through several sites with listings, shows it to be a 361 with a casting of 1964, one site said possible 383 with that casting number, but still 1964 date only.
 

The last 3 digits are the date and month: 222= February 22

Looking at the 440source site, they list 1964 with your number as 383 only, so, clean the casting pad off a little better and see if you can see somehting like a letter and two numbers instead of the SC2, and according to everything I have seen, there is no difference in the Canadian block numbering, or at least I found no reference to Canadian owned vehicles have a different casting/stamping numbers system.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 08, 2011, 06:29:09 PM
Plus the Canuck cars had the Prestolite distributor instead of the Chrysler dizzy in some models.
Canuck built engines were painted red--not turquiose.
 
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 08, 2011, 07:05:44 PM
According to the numbers I reported, the question one has to ask, is it for sure the original engine, replace that you know of, or possibly the engine was changed (even a dealership replacement engine) somewhere along the line thus the reason the casting number does not match what it should be?
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 09, 2011, 01:38:07 AM
Yep.. 1965 was a dump year for the 361 in Canada... we got the 361 in the Newport (Windsor in Canada) to empty out the stock of the discontinued engine for the cars.. Since mine has a June build build I imagine mine was one of the last 361's to be put in a Newport body in Canada..

I'm not sure if the 361 was continued in the Trucks past '65.. someone else would have to chime in on that..




Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 09, 2011, 01:57:15 AM
From the Allpar website;

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 09, 2011, 02:11:14 AM
I stand corrected...

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 09, 2011, 04:25:17 AM
Thanks guys, I guess I'm going to have to do some more detective work and look for more numbers. 
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 09, 2011, 05:17:33 AM
Do you have an engine in the car?  There's a flat spot next to the distributor with the engine size stamped into it.  Scrape the crud off.  It's on the drivers side behind the water pump and near the left valve covor it's about 2" by 3".  You can't miss it
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 09, 2011, 07:45:59 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)I do have the engine in the car but the pad is on the passenger side below the distributor. There is nothing on the drivers side.Im putting a couple of pics of the numbers i found. . I'm not sure if I'm doing the pics right, I'm not much good on the computer but here goes.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/339/PICT0067.JPG)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/339/ID._NUMBER.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 09, 2011, 08:01:55 AM
You're looking in the wrong place for the pad.  Let me shoot you a couple of shots to show you where it is.  Steve
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 09, 2011, 08:12:58 AM
Can you give a full picture of the engine to look at the full layout?  And as a stupid question in the picture, what is that to the left of the 20704C? It may be part of the head, it is just backwards to the way everything is set up on a 361 or 383,  it's on the wrong side of the stamping and the water pump should be right below it.  And you did great with the pictures, can definitely see the numbers.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 09, 2011, 10:24:12 AM
Quote from: CBarge
From the Allpar website;
 
That last comment is certainly true - there were a ton of Motorhomes with 413s in them.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 09, 2011, 11:17:30 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/DSCN0061.JPG)




 
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/DSCN0059.JPG)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 09, 2011, 12:03:57 PM
That would be great. if you want to e-mail them my e-mail address is pat.vincentwood@xplornet.ca. 
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 09, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
Casting number from multiple sites indicate it is a 1964 361 or 383. Ten different sites can't all be wrong, but dundee seems to have found stamped numbers elsewhere, which do NOT match up with any other stamping numbers. That's why I was asking for a full engine shot, there is just no way it could be a coincidence that another brand V8 could have the same casting number as a Mopar, and it isn't a Hemi, small block, or A block, I checked all those for the same number without success. In Polaraco's picture of a 413, the RB block has the stamping on the top edge of the intake valley of the block, the B blocks are to the right at the same angle as the head (on the driver's side, of course).
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 10, 2011, 05:19:28 AM
I have a shot with more of the engine in it. Having a hard time keeping the pics small enouth to upload. The yellow line on the pic points to where the dizzy goes and the pad just below it is where those numbers are stamped. I'm stripping most of the engine to get the old paint off to repaint it. I can't see any numbers on the other side at all . maybe once I get it all stripped and cleaned I will find something. Someone said the Canadian engines were all painted red as this one is. Do you know if it was a certain color of red(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/339/PICT0020.JPG)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 10, 2011, 05:34:20 AM
Seems to me the 361's were silver on both sides.  The canucks know better than I do.  I never recall seeing those wire looms on the 62 domestic ones.
 
Look through these. http://www.moparfins.com/Chrysler/62/1962_Chrysler_Model_Menu.htm (http://www.moparfins.com/Chrysler/62/1962_Chrysler_Model_Menu.htm)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 10, 2011, 08:15:05 AM
If you look in your pictures, yes, it is a 361 or 383, the numbers are under the paint and it is on the opposite side of the block on the flat pad on the same angle as the driver's side head is on. If you look at the intake manifold gasket mark on the right side of the head that looks like a triangle and the water pump thermostat inlet, right between that spot is the pad.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 10, 2011, 09:01:08 AM
Here's another pic from the top. It  doesn't seem to have the triangle piece on it and there are no numbers there. It is definitely a mystery and doin my head in.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/339/00011.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 10, 2011, 09:29:51 AM
OK, this is either a 361 or a 383.  Steve posted pictrues of an "RB" motor; they have the flat pad as shown in his pictures.  You will notice that your motor does not have that - therefore it's a "B" motor.
 


My problem is I don't remember where the ident pad is on those, and I even went outside to look at my 400 - another B - to look!
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 10, 2011, 10:02:09 AM
Thermostat housing, sensor location to the right for the water temperature,  between it and the head is another machined flat spot where the stamped numbers will be, there is the top right water pump housing bolt boss at the top of it, also. Now, if there aren't any numbers stamped there like the ones you showed before, the block surface has been deck machined and they got removed, which does happen. You may be able to get some shadow marks with some 600grit sandpaper on the surface, but if more than about .020 was removed from the block it won't work. Only other way to tell for sure which engine it is, since the361 and 383 share the same casting numbers would be to remove a head and measure the bore, 4.125 for 361 and 4.250 for 383.

The "triangle" I was talking about was the forward most intake manifold bolt hole, the orange line of paint and the front head to block point of the valley pan and a triangle point for location.dana442011-02-10 15:04:43
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 10, 2011, 03:39:25 PM
This is an original unrestored 10,000 mile Canuck built Chrysler Windsor.
Note wire loom,and red painted alternator bracket,etc.
The red engine paint is the same as  the 273,early 340's and 318 Poly engines
Mopar part # 4349218
Ask your local Dodge Dealer parts dept.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_3961.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 10, 2011, 03:48:58 PM
More red canuck engines...
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_1871-1.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_4002.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 10, 2011, 04:07:15 PM
More red Canuck engines.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_2252.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_2268.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 11, 2011, 01:26:53 AM
Man. I wish my 361 was that clean.. LOL

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: firedome on February 11, 2011, 04:32:30 AM
I like the red engines... some people say the 361 was about the most durable Mopar V8 ever made. I guess it was way under-stressed for all that beef. 

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 11, 2011, 04:34:05 AM
The first picture you posted of the unrestored windsor is identical to my engine. I have been able to get the paint from a Chrysler dealer. As you said the alternator brackets seem to be painted red. Is the power steering pump red as well. I notice on mine the radiator support panel is painted black, I was going to paint it white to match the body colour would that be correct. I may have asked a lot of these questions when I was on earlier in the year but I had a slight stroke and lost a lot of memory, so I'm slowly getting it back, and since I only came to Canada five years ago from England I don't know the Canadian cars very well but I love the old classics so thanks everyone for all the help. The engine in the first picture, is it a 361 or a 383 do you know?
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 11, 2011, 06:34:31 AM
The first picture with the distributor in the front does look like a 361 or 383, you cannot see a spot where there is a flat boss behind the thermostat housing, the one with the distributor in the back is a small block A engine, most likely a 318 (but there are like 9 different engine sizes for this configuration). You can tell the A engine, called a poly, by the waves at the bottom outside edge near the gasket of the valve cover. Yours is definitely a 361 or a 383, explained where the numbers are located, but unless the numbers are there (it would be a letter and a 36 or a 38, only the first two numbers are stamped for the engine size as noted, otherwise, as said, heads come off and bore measured.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 11, 2011, 08:42:41 AM
Quote from: dundee
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/339/PICT0020.JPG)

John, I just took a look at the 400 in my back yard.  There are identifying marks on the pad on it, the pad that is in this picture just below that yellow mark, right in front of that head.  What appears there on your motor?
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 11, 2011, 09:44:08 AM
That pad is the one that has the SC2- on it, with the numbers 20704C underneath. That yellow mark is pointing to where the dizzy goes, I took it off to get a better look.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2011, 10:16:56 AM
My Bad John. . .I forgot about the BB's being marked elsewhere.  It's been a while since I had one disected.  I prefer small blocks, but can't seem to get away from all this heavy iron
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 11, 2011, 11:30:50 AM
No problem. I guess if I can't find out if it is a 361 or 383 it won't matter too much if all the Canuk ones are painted red. I'm not doing a numbers matching car or anything just want it to look right. thanks
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2011, 11:50:36 AM
It would look right if you had a 350, 361, 383 or 400 in it then.  The 350 and 361 were considered the two most durable engines, followed by the 383.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2011, 11:51:45 AM
Hey. . .Since I own 2 62's, I'd be interested in seeing the rest your car.  Projects welcome! 
 
They have to be the neatest car chrysler ever made
 
POLARACO2011-02-11 17:10:18
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 11, 2011, 03:18:43 PM
The power steering was also painted red.
The pic of the low mile Windsor is a 361.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_3951.jpg)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2011, 03:48:44 PM
Ahhhh  Leaburn. . .He has a 62
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 11, 2011, 04:08:10 PM
I guess an easy way to put it is, the engine size should be on the pad opposite side of the engine with the one you are looking at with the CS2 on it.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 11, 2011, 05:57:08 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Ahhhh  Leaburn. . .He has a 62
I know..But the unrestored  engine references are still  a little help.
I suspect the wierd wire looms may have been intended for truck application,but  jammed them on his motor anyways.
The motors were probably assembled/built in Windsor until the Auto-Pac agreement in 1965.
IIRC,Windsor also had a truck plant at that time.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2011, 05:59:27 PM
The RB's of that era only had one loom on the sides like my 65 has
 
Boy, that's a looooonnnnnng time ago man
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: glen cyr on February 11, 2011, 06:32:49 PM
I'm figuring the heads are at least pre-64 as the 62's and 63's had 4 bolt valve covers vs. the 64 6 bolt covers. Also the 440 source  http://www.440source.com/blocks.htm (http://www.440source.com/blocks.htm) table suggests this is a 63-64 383 block from the 2128854 casting number suggests. Could it be a 62' block? Those early 383 blocks could have been cast in late 62' with that casting number.
 
owatajrkiam2011-02-11 23:42:36
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 11, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
My '64 361 has 4 bolt valve covers......
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Dan Cluley on February 11, 2011, 11:56:38 PM
Quote from: dundee
... I notice on mine the radiator support panel is painted black, I was going to paint it white to match the body colour would that be correct...
 
Not sure about '62, but what I've seen on the later cars is body colored rad supports, but if it is a light color, then they sprayed black on the parts of the front that would show behind the grill.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 12, 2011, 08:46:40 AM
Quote from: CBarge
The power steering was also painted red.
The pic of the low mile Windsor is a 361.

I've never cared for this body style but I've always loved that dash!!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)  Car looks good.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Steve on February 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
The Dash's are nice, but tell me they are cooler than the 62, 65 and 66 dash.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 12, 2011, 08:43:04 PM
Oh, no comparison.  I think the '60-'62 dash is the BEST EVER, of any car made!  I've liked the '65-6 dash ever since my parents bought their '65 Newport new.  But the '63-4 dash is much sportier than either of those two.  They really look great with a 4-speed!  Oh yeah! Snotty2011-02-13 01:43:24
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: firedome on February 13, 2011, 08:01:15 AM
Ya that 60-62 AstroDome dash with Electro-Luminescent lighting has to be the coolest most  far out dash ever put in a car! The 65/6 was sort of a pale imitation of it. The 63-4 was the most functional though.

Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 13, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
the car is not much to look at right now it's in pieces all over the shop. Been working on the front fenders so they are off as well as the hood, bumpers lights etc. I will be sure to post a pic once I get it back together
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 13, 2011, 08:49:09 AM
Did you find the engine stampings on that pad yet?
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: John Wood on February 13, 2011, 09:40:04 AM
I've stripped all the paint off the engine and can't find any markings but the ones I mentioned before.
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Guests on February 13, 2011, 10:40:50 AM
Well, if there are any parts you need to work on her, 383 parts are going to work as a reference, pistons are the absolute only thing that is different between the 361 and 383, everything else interchanges, and even the 400 is in there for B block parts. On top of that, there are a lot of 413/426 wedge/440 that swap, too, ask and we can tell you what does or doesn't. There just isn't any external way to tell the difference between 361 and 383 without pulling the heads.



I wonder, if the original carb numbers would be the same for the 383/361 or if there is that possibility to figure it out, 22cubes can mean the difference in a carb jetting, factory would use a different number, especially back then.
Since you are going to all the trouble to clean and repaint, are you going to regasket the engine to stop leaks by chance? That would be a time to change the head gaskets and seal the intake bolts so they don't leak oil onto the top of the engine. Took me a few years of dealing with them to figure out how to keep them from seeping oil.dana442011-02-13 15:45:35
Title: what engine is in my 1962 Chrysler Saratoga
Post by: Snotty on February 13, 2011, 04:08:00 PM
Quote from: firedome
The 65/6 was sort of a pale imitation of it. The 63-4 was the most functional though.


 
I agree on both counts.