MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Brian on January 05, 2011, 11:57:22 AM

Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Brian on January 05, 2011, 11:57:22 AM
I'm trying to figure out what bolt pattern the cummins motors run on
their 727/518 trannies.  Some say the V10 and cummins share the same
pattern, but does not the V10 run a small block bellhousing pattern
since it's loosely based on the 360 maggy motor?


Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Guests on January 05, 2011, 12:27:32 PM
Yes, it is the small block 727/904/etc. bolt pattern. Whether the Cummins and V10 are the same I don't know for sure.
Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Steve on January 05, 2011, 12:49:20 PM
Quote from: thrashingcows
I'm trying to figure out what bolt pattern the cummins motors run on their 727/518 trannies. Some say the V10 and cummins share the same pattern, but does not the V10 run a small block bellhousing pattern since it's loosely based on the 360 maggy motor?


 
What did I do start you thinking?
 
I'll ask the question over on the Cummins Forum.  Last I knew, the Cummins was stand alone
Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Steve on January 05, 2011, 01:41:28 PM
As they say at staples. . . "That was easy"
 
It uses a small block trans, 727, 518.  But there is an adaptor on the engine to bolt up too.   That's the stand alone part I guess.  It needs an adaptor
Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Brian on January 05, 2011, 02:08:13 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
As they say at staples. . . "That was easy"
 

Yeah I knew that you have to have the adapter to bolt to the cummins.  What I wanted to know was if they changed the belhousing on the tranny, or just kept it the same and made the adapter to fit.  Seems like this would be the easiest way to go.

Couple guys over on the DTR say the tranny is cummins only...well to a point they are right.  The torque converter and build up of the tranny is cummins/V10 specific, but I was pretty sure the bolt pattern was the same.

Some people just don't like to think outside the box.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Jason Goldsack on January 05, 2011, 02:16:54 PM
The nice thing about the Gen 1 Cummins 727 Auto Trannies is they are a great source for a deep pan and the adapter to drop the pick-up. 

Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Steve on January 05, 2011, 04:12:06 PM
Hell  A 48RH is nothing more than a beefed up 518.  Mostly in the over drive and uses higher pressure internally.  Polaraco's trans is built to the 48 Specs.  Piece of cake.  The only diff I am aware mechanically is the OD has more clutches.  Makes sense.  It still uses the 11" converter. . . .  You're more right than they are.
 
DTR  another Cummins Forum.
Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Brian on January 05, 2011, 04:48:01 PM
Found another source that says the trannies used on teh cummins/V10 is a SAE-spec bellhousing pattern that is also shared with the ford diesels.

Now I'm really confused.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)

Wish I had a cummins 727/518 handy to compare to my SBD 727 I have in the garage.


Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Steve on January 05, 2011, 06:37:50 PM
I went right to the guy that rebuilt all them at my dealer.  Remember my secret weapon?  TJ?  He knows these inside and out.  Hell he showed me how to make that 518 to a 48RH and work it into Polaraco.
Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Brian on January 06, 2011, 07:03:03 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
I went right to the guy that rebuilt all them at my dealer.  Remember my secret weapon?  TJ?  He knows these inside and out.  Hell he showed me how to make that 518 to a 48RH and work it into Polaraco.

I'm know your right about the bodies and internals, I'm concerned about the bellhousing bolt pattern.

I mentioned the SAE bolt pattern on the DTR site and someone came
back and said that it is not an SAE pattern.  Since a SAE pattern is
equally spaced and distanced bolts measured from crank center.

But it does appear that the diesel/V10 (truck) motors use a different
bolt pattern.  One fellow mentioned this was due to the 13" clutch used
on the diesel manual tranny, and then the much bigger torque converted
needed for the auto version. 











Title: Bellhousing bolt patterns...
Post by: Steve on January 06, 2011, 09:01:40 PM
Thick bunch
 
That engine was originally used in tractor Trailers. You remember the old 318, Right?  That was the original.  Then it was bored and stroked to a 5.9, 360.  It was used in busses, tractor trailers, all sorts of applications.  Of course  the manual used a larger bell.  So does the Allison!  Chrysler downsized the transmission for several reasons.  1, it was what they had and it was thought it would hold up, (You remember the 727 Reputation).  2, they needed a transmission that would fit under the existing cab.  An Allison would not without making a different floor.  I think that was the main reason.  And i am sure cost was a factor too.
 
Damned Kids aren't old enough to even know that Dodge sold the first Diesel Pick Ups in the country, back in 1970.  A 60 HP Mitsuibishi, self asperated , 4 banger.  Try driving a D250 4 X 4 with one of those!  Adding a turbo doubled the power and added 3 times the torque.  The Turbos looked like a large coffee cup.  LOL  I had one.  Wish I never sold it.
 
So there you have it.  Let them chew on that info for a while.  I am sure they will dispute it.  Too many egos will be hurt.  That's why I don't go there anymore.