MoparFins

Techical Discussions => General Tech => Topic started by: Jason Goldsack on December 23, 2010, 12:40:43 PM

Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 23, 2010, 12:40:43 PM
I'm getting some HP manifold for helping my friend find NOS tips for his 6 pack fury..

I thought since I'm modifying my exhaust to fit the HP manifolds.. I might throw in an X pipe.

Where is the best place to put it?

Don't tell me to buy the TTI exhaust cause it's over a grand up here to get that exhaust..and that is not in my budget..


Title: X pipe
Post by: Snotty on December 23, 2010, 12:43:51 PM
The answer to this one will change from person to person, and shop to shop.  The only car I ever had a cross-over on it was right after the tail-shaft pof the transmission.  I know this much, it did balance the exhause well and made the car quieter.
 
I do have one question first?  Have you ever changed the spark plugs on a car with HP manifolds?  After doing so on Fogel's Hurst, I sold the HPs I had and want to go with headers.  But, that's just me....
Title: X pipe
Post by: Guests on December 23, 2010, 12:43:56 PM
Then why not look for a picture of the X exhaust installed that is from TTI and match it up that way. I believe, from what I recall, the X pipes are usually about six inches rearward of the front U joint, but verify it.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on December 23, 2010, 12:45:29 PM
I had my exhaust done on Polaraco for 600 Bucks installed so you are right
 
Mine is X'd right past the forward U Joint.  Perfect place as the drive shaft pivot drop there is minimal
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 23, 2010, 12:52:39 PM
I know it will suck to change the plugs.. but so was the plugs on the Big Block Aspen I had with header.s Had to change one side from underneath and through the inner fender.. big job..

The HP manifolds are going to be next to free and that is much cheaper than new headers..

I will be piecing the exhaust together myself.. so the cost is minimal.. just time..and a few bends


Title: X pipe
Post by: Guests on December 23, 2010, 02:53:02 PM
With the hipo manifolds, I find it easiest to go from the front of the block and work backward under the manifold instead of crawling underneath. The hipo manifolds will do just fine for the street, they breathe better than most manifolds and are easily free breathing enough through 6000rpm.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 23, 2010, 02:54:47 PM
Anything is better than these log manifolds!!!!

Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on December 23, 2010, 04:25:14 PM
Probably better off with the logs for all the trouble those headers can be
Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on December 23, 2010, 04:29:55 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Dual_3.jpg)
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 24, 2010, 02:16:55 AM
I'm not gonna run header.. running HP manifolds

Title: X pipe
Post by: Rich on December 25, 2010, 08:42:57 PM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/171/2Vvo_9.jpg)

krautmaster2010-12-26 01:43:22
Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on December 25, 2010, 08:49:18 PM
Yeah Rich. . .   I agree.  Mines in a pretty good spot.  With the axle dropped, there is still about 2 inches to the pipe.  But my trans may sit higher and is longer than a 727 by 2".  It's a 518 I'm showing there in Polaraco
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jon Doersch on December 30, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
For the best scavenging effects and power, you want to keep the crossover as close to the engine as possible so that the exhast gasses are as hot as possible when they merge, but as everyone has already alluded too, packaging constrainsts will dictate...just try and keep it as far forward as possible.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Bill on December 30, 2010, 12:23:14 PM
If all you're trying to do is balance exhaust pressure why not just go old school H pipe?
Title: X pipe
Post by: firedome on December 30, 2010, 03:21:28 PM
That is a very good point... from the standpoint of Physics it will
work just as well. It increases torque at minor expense to top end
horsepower.

Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 30, 2010, 03:28:10 PM
The the standpoint of cheap.. if that would help I will put one in...

Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on December 30, 2010, 04:12:53 PM
Not done right, H pipes can unbalance the flow.  They also only balance.  They don't enhance the flow.  The X Pipe creates a double venturi which increases the flow.  That's partly why the heat is needed in the X design.
 
Either one is more benificial than just straight duals.
 
Look at a Y Pipe.  They don't jusy butt the odd bank into the pipe, they enter the main pipe on an angle.  This helps reduce the back pressure on the main side.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 31, 2010, 04:33:25 AM
True... If you saw what is under the car at the front you would wonder how it runs as well as it does.. ( I didn't make it.. some exhaust shop hack made it)

Title: X pipe
Post by: attkrlufy on January 13, 2011, 07:14:46 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
Not done right, H pipes can unbalance the flow.
How do you unbalance exhaust flow by positioning an H-pipe "incorrectly?"  I thought that so long as you kept it somewhere upstream of the mufflers (closer to engine is better) it didn't really matter where it went.

Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on January 13, 2011, 10:09:25 AM
Physics  Us old people need them often
 
There is more of a buffer before the muffler.  That's a guess
Title: X pipe
Post by: Bill on January 14, 2011, 06:30:41 AM
Even better than the H or X pipe the O pipe.  It's the answer to the H/X debate.
 
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2 (http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2)
 
 
Title: X pipe
Post by: attkrlufy on January 14, 2011, 08:08:19 AM
Quote from: czervika
Even better than the H or X pipe the O pipe.  It's the answer to the H/X debate.
 


http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2 (http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

I must be slipping - took me about a min to realize what this was.  "The Onion" for parts catalogs.  Brilliant.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on January 14, 2011, 12:21:05 PM
What the?   Another gimmick????
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 22, 2011, 03:16:47 AM
Curious here... I see Polaraco has the pipes crossing.. while the other one uses two bend cut in the middle and welded together.. does the exhaust cross sides, stay on the same side or splits with half going on each side...




Title: X pipe
Post by: Bill on February 22, 2011, 08:44:09 AM
it's just to equalize the pressure.  On my magnum the pipes run within a few inches of each other then they X but ts really more of just a bend and a welld where both pipes touch. 
 
Like this;
 
(http://www.300cforums.com/forums/attachments/parts-buy-sell-forum/33976d1254353900-f-s-corsa-stainless-exhaust-system-srt8-front-x-pipe-assembly.jpg)
 
 
 
 
After seeing the new Mustang exhaust from magnaflow I'm back to questioning if it's really needed at all, they're omitting any x over.
 
 
Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on February 22, 2011, 11:13:29 AM
yes, that's all it is.  It just equalizes the pressure so the engine will run more even.  That's the idea of single exhaust
Title: X pipe
Post by: Bill on February 23, 2011, 03:05:14 AM
Now now no need to get touchy... With all the different setups out there, it's hard to answer Winsors quetion as to weather the x pipe needs to be an actual X and let the exhaust flow from side to side or if it merely needs to blend.  czervika2011-02-23 08:06:07
Title: X pipe
Post by: Guests on February 23, 2011, 06:29:21 AM
X pipes work really good at the top end, the old H pipes work well at the bottom and all the way up to where the X pipes without any problem. The idea is that yes, the two sides are able to equalize the back pressure through the X and H pipes side to side. When an engine is balanced to within a couple grams from the factory, that imbalance of parts increases in weight exponentially. For example, 2 grams out of balance at 1000rpm is 4 grams, 2000rpm becomes 16 grams, 3000rpm becomes 32 grams and it continues. One way to help balance this is through the exhaust pulses to reduce the imbalance by causing the exhaust pulses to equalize pressure when the valves open, thus a different weights pulse opposite and counter each other. It isn't a perfect world, but it works better than having two two cylinder engines on each side of a V8 engine (look at the H pattern, dual plane intakes, it is 2 two cylinder engines split, which is why they work better at the bottom end). The more equal everything is pressure-wise on the back side, the better.  The one advantage of the X pipe over the H pipe is, as the rpm increases it helps pull the exhaust out the tailpipe because of the direction the main flow is, again, it helps balance the internals because it is trying to equally pull from the cycling pistons and valve opening vice pulse to push the exhaust pressure backwards or side to side, as with the H pipe. Which is better? Depends on how big your wallet is and whether your intention is to race from light to light, or have an overall balance over a greater driving style.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 23, 2011, 03:29:57 PM
If you saw the exhaust I got with the car you would say anything is an improvement..

The stock single exhaust is still on the passenger side and the Y was cut and another pipe run along the drivers side.. I think the pipes are too small but I'm not sure what the factory single size was..

If you saw it you would wonder how the heck with logs and this exhaust I actually went low 16's with 2.76 gears...


Title: X pipe
Post by: Guests on February 23, 2011, 03:50:46 PM
Sounds like the standard way exhaust was split in the old days, saved a few bucks. Remember, also, that the smallest cross section  of the exhaust pipe, no matter where it is or how overall large it is, is your exhaust system size. There have been tons of documented exhaust pipes that are simply crimp bent and double walled pipe, where cutting them into pieces to improve the flow results in finding the inner pipe bent to the point that the smallest cross section on a 2.25inch stock exhaust is down to 1.70inch in a corner. You could have five inch exhaust throughout the whole system, but with a crimp like this, you have a 1.70 inch exhaust system, period.
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 24, 2011, 01:35:55 AM
Very true... I assume a 2.5 mandrel to the back would be the best..

Title: X pipe
Post by: Guests on February 24, 2011, 06:14:55 AM
Yes, 2.5 is enough for the 361, 3 inch gets a little loud (ask me how I know that).
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on February 24, 2011, 03:32:36 PM
I had 3 inch behind my Big Block Aspen with Super Turbos.. ya it was loud..

Title: X pipe
Post by: Herman on February 28, 2011, 04:10:20 AM
Soon I can join the discussion and add some experienced advice to all this ;)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/BigBlockMopar/1965Chrysler300Convertible/IMG_1232.jpg)



Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 07, 2011, 08:26:20 AM
I hope to work on the Exhaust today... since i have 2.5 inch exhaust would it hurt to put in a 3 inch crossover? ( I have a few pieces kicking Around)


Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2011, 11:44:20 AM


Won't matter
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 07, 2011, 04:59:26 PM
I got the crossover in but can't weld the top parts of the crossover pipe... the car isn't high enough on the ramps... grrrrrr.... it is a good close fit so I hope muffler cement might seal it up..




Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2011, 06:50:18 PM


(http://fyimusic.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Duct-Tape.jpg)
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 08, 2011, 03:52:48 AM
Thanks for the help.. LOL

Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 08, 2011, 02:25:08 PM
Well.. got it done.. it dramatically quieted the car down in town...

There still is a drone but at a very small Rpm range versus before the pipe was put in.. it used to be loud anytime I was in town with the revs down..

It was worth the time and effort I think




Title: X pipe
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on May 14, 2011, 04:55:38 PM
I'm late to the party as always but I was going to say that an H pipe is what I have on the Newport (Ruby)  But it doesn't matter now you have it done.

Title: X pipe
Post by: Steve on May 14, 2011, 06:47:14 PM


As long as you don't bottom out and the drive shaft can go up and down, you are right R
Title: X pipe
Post by: Jason Goldsack on May 15, 2011, 05:13:46 AM
I used a bend from a tailpipe that goes over the rear end. It gives me lots of clearance. I'll post a pick.

The kids are much happier that the drone is reduced.. in town it got quite loud before the H-pipe was put in.

There was no difference in performance but i didn't expect it would.