MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - FUEL => Topic started by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 02:32:23 PM

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 02:32:23 PM
I got this link from Rich Eherenberg.  Thought I would share it with you
 
[the site was replaced by a malware perpetrator]
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 28, 2010, 02:34:26 PM
Let me add this which I host on my web site:
 [dead link]
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 03:29:51 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Let me add this which I host on my web site:



 
MINE WORKS

 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/StanslINK.jpg)
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Ken on November 28, 2010, 06:27:41 PM


http://members.shaw.ca/crussel/thermoquad/tqguide.html (http://members.shaw.ca/crussel/thermoquad/tqguide.html) From back in the day, 1998 'natch

Then the Imperial club has this on their site http://www.imperialclub.com/Articles/ThermoQuad/index.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Articles/ThermoQuad/index.htm)



Moesy2010-11-28 23:29:21
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Ken on November 28, 2010, 06:33:19 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
I got this link from Rich Eherenberg.  Thought I would share it with you
 
I bought a TQ from David that I hope to use in the future.  He also fabbed up a hard line to go from the pump to the carb and added a pressure gauge, too

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/13/TQ-4-19-08_001.jpg)

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Brian on November 28, 2010, 08:25:18 PM
Ahhh Demon Sizzler....I've been on that site many times.  I would not hesitate to send a TQ to him to have it gone over and set-up....if you don't want to take the time to set-up your own.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 28, 2010, 09:15:33 PM
The Imperial site also has these:
how to rebuild a TQ :  http://www.offroadexchange.com/tquad.htm (http://www.offroadexchange.com/tquad.htm)

original factory manual: http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/290/index.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/290/index.htm)


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 29, 2010, 01:27:13 AM
I am not a fan of the Carter Carbs... there never seems to be enough shot to stop a stumble off idle if you stand on it. If you have lots of converter there is no problem as you would be off the idle circuit when you hammer it.

That is the bonus of the Holley is the ability to overcome the stumble off idle with extra shot.. hence the name everyone seems to call the Carter " Thermobog"


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on November 29, 2010, 01:54:30 AM
Do not blame the carb if you chose yourself to use a slow torque converter (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
But seriously, the TQ was originally a race carb that has been further developped for street use. It is a very complex carb to adjust though, and not everyone seems able to tune them properly (I have to admit cant myself...).
 
I am no specific fan of anything related to gasoline, so not of Carter stuff either. But the TQ at least looks big (and big is good), and I really like the huge secondaries.
 
The thing I really dislike on holleys is that you have to remove the aircleaner even for adjusting idle speed. Also hate that holleys are susceptible to leaks, potentially resulting in gasoline on a hot engine.
 
Sjak Brak2010-11-29 07:28:55
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 29, 2010, 02:12:27 PM
Interesting.. my old boss used thermoquad bases for Propane conversion...

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Brian on November 29, 2010, 02:53:30 PM

But seriously, the TQ was originally a race carb that has been further developed for street use. It is a very complex carb to adjust though, and not everyone seems able to tune them properly (I have to admit cant myself...).
 [/QUOTE]

Exactly...if you know how to set one up you should not have any stumble off the idle circuit.  Heck the one I had on the 360 in my 87 ram ran like it had TBI...pump several times and fire...you could go almost immediately and it would never stumble during warm up.  But it does take a lot of tweaking and set-up to get things right....with TQ's the devil is in the details.

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 04:15:15 PM
Quote from: Moesy
Quote from: POLARACO
I got this link from Rich Eherenberg.  Thought I would share it with you
 



Ken
 
Eherenberg says to use a 74 to 77 intake.  It has an EGR, but you can cover that.  It has something to do with the way the throttle base is ported and the way it flows.  I picked one up for 75 bucks
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 29, 2010, 04:24:17 PM

or use this

(http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/images/2191.jpg)


http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler/performer-bb.shtml (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler/performer-bb.shtml)


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 04:29:51 PM
Bob. . .Rich said NOT to use that with a TQ.  The factory unit is better
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on November 29, 2010, 06:00:00 PM
I ran a TQ on my fury with a 400 and had no probs with it. I also do a good job at rebuilding them (at least Stan said the guy he gave the TQ I did for him liked the job) I am also going to call a possible connection that will put me in posesion of several that i will rebuild and offer to everyone here will keep y'all posted on that.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on November 29, 2010, 06:03:17 PM
[/QUOTE]

I have an Edelbrock that looks like that and its not being used lol
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: glen cyr on November 29, 2010, 07:16:33 PM
I've got a Demonsizzler modified carb from David also and it runs like a scalled cat. Here is a great discussion on the TQ's and David gives away a few secrets and what to look for. http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61792 (http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61792) Lot's of great info there. Here is my latest build of a 72' TQ for a 340 A/T #6139SA. I can't post a picture as my download of the pics are too much,but maybe they will come up in the add i've got for it on Kijjiji.  You can see how i modified the lever to accept a manual choke cable so if anyone is looking on how to set up a linkage for manual,this is a good reference. Click on Enlarge to get a good view. http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-Mopar-1972-Thermoquad-carb-6139SA-W0QQAdIdZ240901744 (http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-Mopar-1972-Thermoquad-carb-6139SA-W0QQAdIdZ240901744) 
 
Glen
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Ken on November 29, 2010, 08:24:45 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Bob. . .Rich said NOT to use that with a TQ.  The factory unit is better

I've got a Holley Street Dominator I'm planning on using.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 09:19:23 PM
[/QUOTE]



 
You've been working for the Gov. too long.  You have me confused.   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 



You said you you had a TQ and showed a pic with the fuel line.  Now you're going to use a Holly?  That's a mistake. . .   Holly is a POS.  They're over priced nightmares.
 
I was never a big fan of the TQ either!  They  have been plagued with problems over the years.  I've had my best results and reliability with an AFB and the Eddys.  'm still thinking  of using an Eddy over the TQ, no matter what Rich E says.
 
POLARACO2010-11-30 02:19:57
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on November 29, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
Steve, wake up, the street dominator is an intake (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) as for their carbs, they also have carbs that are doing fine on the street, my buddy's 71 Cutlass 'vert is ran on one before converting to propane and did a very good mileage with it.
 
 
Sjak Brak2010-11-30 03:29:18
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 30, 2010, 03:39:17 AM
I disagree that Holley are race carbs and not street carbs. Many mopes came from the factory with Holley carb ( six pak, 1970 440's.. and so on). I get the same mileage with my 600 that i did with my AFB.. or my Thermobog..

As for the Propane, he used spreadbore intakes and never needed an adapter..


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on November 30, 2010, 04:07:34 AM
[/QUOTE]Not sure what propane parts your boss used to work with. I meant the adapter for the Impco 425 (or the sadly discontinued OHG X-450) on the baseplate. On a squarebore Holley, its a direct fit, but on the TQ its not (because the TQ-secondaries are wider than the mixer body so a spacer is needed). The intake itself is usually not the issue :)Sjak Brak2010-11-30 09:10:26
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Riyad on November 30, 2010, 12:13:38 PM

Quote from: Sjak Brak

 


this scares me, I want a 3310 Holley for my E85 application and there aren't a lot of options
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 30, 2010, 01:05:49 PM
I loved my 3310.. easy to work on.. easy to tune.. go for it.. I ran one for 11 years and loved it..

BUT... make sure it has the backfire checkball and spring installed.. you will thank me when you never have to change a power valve again. ( the kit is SUPER easy to install)..

I would also buy the quick change secondary spring kit if your carb doesn't already have it.. You just pop the top and change the spring... simple and fast.


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Ken on November 30, 2010, 02:13:12 PM

Quote from: Sjak Brak
Quote from: 1965Windsor361
I disagree that Holley are race carbs and not street carbs. Many mopes came from the factory with Holley carb ( six pak, 1970 440's.. and so on). I get the same mileage with my 600 that i did with my AFB.. or my Thermobog..
In 67 or 68 Holley was also used as the standard carb on Chryslers and Imperials but droppend due to quality issues IIRC...

Sjak, that was for cars that didn't have the CAP package (Cleaner Air Package, aka California emission set-up).  Cars sold in California were equipped with Carter AFB carbs, like mine.

Steve, sorry, I forgot to clarify that the Holley SD is an aluminum intake manifold (I  can hear him saying "Damned kid!") (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 30, 2010, 02:53:55 PM

Quote from: 1965Windsor361

BUT... make sure it has the backfire checkball and spring installed.. you will thank me when you never have to change a power valve again. ( the kit is SUPER easy to install)..




I made my own years ago....find the port on the bottom of the Holley carb for the power valve, split the baseplate from the body, drill the orifice from the topside of the baseplate, down halfway and slightly larger for a check ball, take a small phillips screwdriver that will fit in your drilled hole and lightly tap with a hammer to make 4 bypass passages to let vacuum go under the check ball. This eliminates the spring.

When you have an engine backfire, the pressure blows the check ball up against the carb body gasket and seals off the destructive pressure. The check ball was smaller than a BB.....

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 30, 2010, 02:55:41 PM
.....but even after all of this discussion, nobody said WHY the TQ is best on a smoggy OEM manifold.....seems kinda hard to believe

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: glen cyr on November 30, 2010, 03:03:57 PM
The Street Dominator manifold is a great street manifold as it has short runners and if you add a divider down the center of the carb base it helps with the bottom end. This single plane thinks it's a dual plane. The ports are a bit smaller than my M-1 manifold. NO adapter required when using a TQ as the SD is a speadbore manifold. The warped body on the TQ's is a misconception. Sure there has been,but it's usually from an overheated engine. I've seen plenty of warped afb's,holleys etc. when you throw excess heat to em'. The most common failures are the bowel wells that are epoxied in place. I remove it all and JB weld them in place as the factory stuff gets brittle after a lot of years and cycling hot and cold. I ran an 850 TQ for years with a SD manifold and it is one great package and will clear ANY hood.

Glen
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: stitcherbob
.....but even after all of this discussion, nobody said WHY the TQ is best on a smoggy OEM manifold.....seems kinda hard to believe


 
He didn't tell me either when I asked Bob.  Other than mentioning it flows correctly and doesn't bog with the TQ's.  Looking at the one I got, I ahve to guess his reasoning is they are made for one another.
 
Don't twist what I am saying now. . .   He told me to get an 800 TQ AND this manifold.  The closest thing to it is the Eddy Thunder.  Which is a better deal because you don't need the tune up kit.
 
Cory?  You know TQ's really well?
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on November 30, 2010, 10:25:38 PM
Quote from: Imperiyad
Quote from: Sjak Brak
 

Quote from: [b
POLARACO[/b]]
Hollys are racing carbs and poor for street use

Its not a race carb ;)
 
But dissassemble and check the carb before installation, you may need to get rid of some casting barbs, adjust throttle blades so they actually close, and stuff like that. And have a rebuild kit ready, just in case you ruin a gasket during disassembly :)
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Riyad on November 30, 2010, 11:06:52 PM
yeah I know its street carb but quality is important since its not for gasoline, The Carb will get will be already rebuilt for the E85, ofcourse is this not enough for us so we will disassemble, I guess the rebuild kit will be better quality since made for E85
Quote from: 1965Windsor361
I loved my 3310.. easy to work on.. easy to tune.. go for it.. I ran one for 11 years and loved it..






Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jason Goldsack on December 01, 2010, 01:31:33 AM

From what I hear Ethanol is hard on gaskets.. also I'm sure you need to jet up quite a bit since ethanol has less energy in Ethanol meaning you need t burn more...
1965Windsor3612010-12-01 06:33:22
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Riyad on December 01, 2010, 02:07:02 AM
Yes its true about the jets it will need more 20% 30% fuel but does not mean that much consumption , my friend converted his VW Golf to 100% E85 by making new jets for carb
as for gaskets this is  not really true, they are confusing with Methanol, or gaskets are already old or bad



Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Bill on December 01, 2010, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Imperiyad


 
 
czervika2010-12-01 15:04:44
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on December 01, 2010, 10:14:23 AM
Quote from: czervika
 

Amen Brother
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Riyad on December 01, 2010, 01:41:38 PM


In the 85% alcohol and 15% gas, I'm indeed 20-30% saving but its not only about money, the car is running faster and engine is quieter smoother, Octane is 105, no extra consumption on highway driving!






Imperiyad2010-12-01 18:58:54
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Rich on December 01, 2010, 02:01:00 PM
pkrautmaster2010-12-01 19:01:36
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Rich on December 01, 2010, 02:04:36 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Bob. . .Rich said NOT to use that with a TQ.  The factory unit is better

 You mean some of those boat anchors are good for something besides handing out hernias?
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2010, 07:01:02 AM
Quote from: krautmaster
Quote from: POLARACO
Bob. . .Rich said NOT to use that with a TQ.  The factory unit is better


That's what I am told.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2010, 12:12:50 PM
I finally got a clear answer from Eherenberg.  He suggested that manifold over the pre 74 because it is made to accomodate the the TQ.   The aftermarket manifolds mentioned earlier are slightly better.  But for the buck, this is the clossest thing to the performer.
 
He suggested it because he was appealing to the Hobbystien side of me. 
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on December 02, 2010, 12:37:56 PM
Steve dont know them real well but i can take em apart and rebuild em pretty good. i do have a tuning kit for them. i know the one i had ran great i hit the gas and was off no bog and when i did a test to check my kickdown i went from 60 to about 95 in a matter of seconds with no trans kickdown
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on December 02, 2010, 12:43:16 PM
Quote from: Imperiyad




 
 
stinger11702010-12-02 17:46:40
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2010, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: stinger1170
Quote from: Imperiyad




 
 

We own Mopars, not Chevys.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Corey, I was thinking of sending out to you to rebuild.  Going on the 62 413.  I have an edelbrock I have to identify for CFM.  If it will work in the 65 413, I'll do that.  I have an AFB I need done for the 68 Fury.  And I have 2 Holley's. . .   Do I get a quantity discount? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on December 02, 2010, 02:19:11 PM
Steve Is that 4 or 5 carbies?
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 02, 2010, 03:30:37 PM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/a_chump_at_oxford.jpg)


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on December 02, 2010, 03:36:48 PM
well he lists 3 cars plus 2 holley's plus an eddy and an afb I know one of those cars is dual quads so im jusst checkin for an accurate count lolstinger11702010-12-02 20:47:16
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 02, 2010, 06:28:54 PM

Stevie had an empty post after you asked, so it looked like some calcoolatin wuz goin on (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
stitcherbob2010-12-02 23:29:17
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2010, 07:22:06 PM
I was having technical difficulties with the IPad
 
Corey. .  A total of 5.
 
In order that I'll want them. . .
 
TQ and the AFB  I'll need them in the spring
Then the Eddie for the 68
And then the 2 for the H. 
 
I have a kit for the Eddie, I need a kit for the AFB.s and the TQ.  It's a 76 440 TQ.  That's going on the 62.  The AFB came from the 62, but will stay with the 65.  The Eddie, I have no clue.  I bought it from a docker years ago.
 
I can do them, but I figured you could use the money
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Corey on December 03, 2010, 07:21:58 PM
Send em to me and i will be more than happy to do them for ya you did get my pm on the pricing right
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on December 06, 2010, 05:16:01 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I finally got a clear answer from Eherenberg.  He suggested that manifold over the pre 74 because it is made to accomodate the the TQ.   The aftermarket manifolds mentioned earlier are slightly better.  But for the buck, this is the clossest thing to the performer.
 
My 73 Imp came standard with the TQ + spreadbore intake. The performer intake, although advertised as "stock replacement" is quite a bit higher. Depending on what you want to put on top of the intake, it can give clearance issues on some cars (dont ask how I know (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif))
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 06, 2010, 03:07:42 PM
Hmmmm....maybe possible to mill down the top of the aluminum manifold  in a Bridgeport? How much higher Sjak?

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Jacques on December 14, 2010, 02:02:40 AM
I cant tell for sure as the car is gone, but as i remember it  was about an inch higher.It gave me clearance issues with a propane-carb I built with a TQ-throttlebody+adapter+Impco 425. I had to replace it with a Holley baseplate + Impco 425.

For the sale of the car, I converted the car to gasoline, and the Edelbrock 1411 carb fit without any problems on top of a thermal gasket.


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Riyad on December 14, 2010, 02:15:02 AM
not gone so far as I have both manifolds, can check if anyone cares


Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 29, 2013, 05:20:07 PM
Bob
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: dana44 on July 29, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
The AFB is pretty much the same as far as adjustments go, stepped needles and jets-wise, the videos will help with the tuning of the needles. The Thermoquad is what would equate to the spreadbore carbs, small primaries, large secondaries, and a vacuum butterfly on the secondaries adjustable for vacuum operating of the secondaries.
 
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/pdf/carb_owners_manual.pdf (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/pdf/carb_owners_manual.pdf)
 
It is a 600cfm (1406), the other number, a part number/production number and not needed.
 
This link will give you way more information than you will ever need, but very informative.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Bob Schaefer on July 29, 2013, 06:50:13 PM
Thanks for the info.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: dana44 on July 29, 2013, 06:52:26 PM
No problem. I like the AFBs and Edelbrocks for more stock applications, Holleys are easier to rebuild, blueprint, and tune as far as I am concerned, too.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Snotty on July 31, 2013, 08:32:05 AM
The Eddy is not a copy of the AFB, but the AVS.

Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: dana44 on July 31, 2013, 08:58:14 AM
OOOPS. Too many different letters, but you are right, talking late 50s through early 60s on the AVS, had one on a 62 Cadillac, stock.
Title: ThermoQuad Info
Post by: Snotty on August 03, 2013, 09:05:18 AM
I prefer the AFB but the only way to have one is to buy an old one and hope it's good enough to rebuild.