MoparFins

Techical Discussions => General Tech => Topic started by: Anthony Prescott on November 24, 2010, 11:37:22 AM

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 24, 2010, 11:37:22 AM
I got to do an oil change in my 331 hemi. What is the best thing for the oldies? I also have to change the oil in a 67 dodge truck... the 413 industrial. Should I use the same in both?
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 24, 2010, 11:37:46 AM
some tell me to use high sodium oil, i think... cant remembermoparmanof852010-11-24 16:39:00
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2010, 11:52:50 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Jacques on November 24, 2010, 12:36:40 PM
ZDDP is also important.

Gulf has a good range of 15W40 and 20W50 specifically for old US-V8s. I will soon be distributing this over here as well.


Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 24, 2010, 02:07:33 PM
the awesome  thing was that i wrote that when i was eating tater chips. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) Do the auto supply places on the wast coast sell an oil for me thats worth a spit? moparmanof852010-11-24 19:08:32
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 24, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
I used Valvolene 40W Racing oil in my 440 Imperial....it has plenty of ZDDP in it to protect the camshaft and lifters. It started fine on a couple of really cold mornings we had last month too.

When I change it (and eliminate a few small leaks )  I'm going to switch to Mobil1 full synthetic. I've used it for years in my other cars . The 15w50 is the only weight they sell with the full amount of ZDDP needed for performance and turbocharged engines. The other weights are formulated differently.


Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Snotty on November 24, 2010, 08:18:06 PM
I like Castrol GTX 30 HD.  In the newer cars it's 10-30 or 10-40 depending on what the book calls for, but it's still Castrol GTX.
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on November 25, 2010, 04:46:09 AM
I use Valvoline Blue Diesel 15w40 (dino, not synthetic, though it is
available in full synth too) in all my older collector cars. Has one of
the highest ZDDP levels available.

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 25, 2010, 05:34:59 AM
I use the oil from my neighbor across the street when he changes it on his motor home.
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 25, 2010, 07:24:08 AM

Quote from: Commando1
I use the oil from my neighbor across the street when he changes it on his motor home.

we are not talking about what you use on your hair Stan!

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 25, 2010, 02:36:51 PM

Quote from: firedome
I use Valvoline Blue Diesel 15w40 (dino, not synthetic, though it is
available in full synth too) in all my older collector cars. Has one of
the highest ZDDP levels available.


 Sulfur is the last thing you want in a motor oil - high sulfur oils turn to sludge very quickly
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 25, 2010, 02:46:03 PM

Quote from: Snotty
I like Castrol GTX 30 HD.  In the newer cars it's 10-30 or 10-40 depending on what the book calls for, but it's still Castrol GTX.


 All regular (non-diesel/non race oils) have almost no ZDDP in them anymore--apparently it clogs catalytic converters, and Uncle Sugar mandates that converters last for 150,000 miles, so the ZDDP had to go. The upside is that all cars made since the 90's all have had roller cams that can survive without the high pressure additives. 
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Steve on November 25, 2010, 04:12:05 PM
Yeah but Rich
 
We worry about our old cars.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  LOL
 
Use synthetic Diesel oils in everything
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 26, 2010, 02:32:53 AM

Quote from: POLARACO

 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Snotty on November 26, 2010, 08:08:16 AM
Quote from: krautmaster
Quote from: Snotty
I like Castrol GTX 30 HD.  In the newer cars it's 10-30 or 10-40 depending on what the book calls for, but it's still Castrol GTX.

 Don't use that stuff in a flat tappet cam engine unless you like changing cams!
 
That condition does not exist for me in any of my cars - all hydraulic.
 
However, I've used GTX for years with no problems in any car I've owned or own, including my '61 VW Type 1 whose motor was anything but stock.  I've had no problems.
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 27, 2010, 08:38:44 AM
I believe you are are mixing up mechanical with flat - either way, mechanical or hydraulic, if the lifter doesn't have a roller it's a flat tappet and will wear out very quickly without the ZDDP in the oil.
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Snotty on November 27, 2010, 10:47:10 AM
Yes I am, but, my misunderstanding of your point does not change the fact that I've had no problems.  NO problems.  None.
 
You said you had problems with one cam and that oil.  Perhaps the problem was in your car and not the oil.
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 27, 2010, 12:33:44 PM



Metallurgy of the cam & lifters, oil pump pressure vs volume, oil gallery routing, engine design, proper break-in, driving style and engine cleanliness all factor into the equation, so what works for Snotty may not work for the next guy.....

Using diesel oil is a recent idea.....my jury isn't in yet on that. Diesel engines need a whole different detergent package to handle soot and parrafin by-products of burning that fuel. It can actually cause a gas engine to lose compression due to cleaning the cylinders too well. Racing oil needing to be changed after short use is ridiculous....the 24 hours of Lemans or other endurance races are where that oil is tested, not one 1/4 mile trip!

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html (http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html)




stitcherbob2010-11-27 17:45:45
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Steve on November 27, 2010, 01:02:41 PM
Quote from: Snotty
Yes I am, but, my misunderstanding of your point does not change the fact that I've had no problems.  NO problems.  None.
 

 
 
Not yet. . .
 
Take the intake off and look at the Cam lobes
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 27, 2010, 02:06:27 PM


 Racing oil is supposed be be changed after a 500 mile or so race, not the typical 3,000-5,000 miles you run regular oil. No one changes it after a 1/4 mile, unless they have way more money than brains or their own refinery! Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs make some really nice oil that is fine to leave in you motor for a long  time (a year or more if the mileage is kept low) but it costs $8-10 a quart, while Valvoline Premuim Blue is about $10 a gallon. It will be interesting to see if there is premature bore/ring wear caused by using diesel oil in a gasoline engine, but since most of us don't drive our cars that many miles, it will literally take years to find out. A cam can wipe a lobe in no time....



krautmaster2010-11-27 19:20:39
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on November 28, 2010, 06:03:09 AM
The reason Castrol GTX may have worked for years with no problems is
that the mandated reduction and now virtual removal of ZDDP only
started a couple of years ago, so only fairly recently has the problem
become really acute... one of the cam mfr's, Isky or Crane or 
someone, started noticing increasingly frequent failures as did engine
rebuilders... it's all over antique car and racing bulletin
boards.  The supposed issues of using diesel formulated oil in gas
engines is essentailly a red herring acccording to oil experts that I
have read. One of the best:

www.bobistheoilguy.com



Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 28, 2010, 06:46:08 AM
Valvoline Racing Oil had detergents and is ok for street use...

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf (http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf)


Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 28, 2010, 10:04:30 AM



 Good to know Valvoline put detergents back in their racing oil--I had read on another site that they did so when they started removing the ZZDp from their regular oil. 
http://www.bradpennracing.com/Default.aspx (http://www.bradpennracing.com/Default.aspx)

http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/products/hotrod/index.html (http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/products/hotrod/index.html)




krautmaster2010-11-28 15:18:07
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Bob Schaefer on November 28, 2010, 10:16:13 AM
So, pardon my being dense... the last time I changed the oil on a '69 Dodge was in 1985 or '86.. back then, I used just a standard 10w40... that car, I changed it every 2500 miles, and used motor flush every second change... When I pulled the intake to put on the Edlebrock Torker, it had a nice coating of oil, and nothing that even looked like sludge. I miss that motor.
 
Anyway, the current Dodge has about the same mileage that the previous one had when I had to get rid of it. I am looking to change the oil after having run Seafoam through it.
 
So, what you're talking about is just Synthetic oil that is used in diesel engines, right? Does that go for a '69 383, with about 87K, as well? I know the initial question was for an older engine, but I've been out of the Classic Car loop for too long, so I am re-learning everything.
 
Thanks, as always,
 
schaefman2010-11-28 15:18:58
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on November 28, 2010, 10:31:21 AM







http://www.valvoline.com/products/commercial-industrial-products/oem-endorsed-products/10 (http://www.valvoline.com/products/commercial-industrial-products/oem-endorsed-products/10)




krautmaster2010-11-28 15:57:37
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Bob Schaefer on November 28, 2010, 11:48:08 AM
Excellent...that is what I just looked up, and you're right... not expensive at all.

Thanks... I'm glad I didn't just go buy a jug of oil to dump in there. I hope the guy I got if from knew something about this...
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on November 29, 2010, 03:51:08 AM
Yep, that's the oil I've been using for several years now,
excellent  stuff... and cheap. You don't need the synthetic
version of it unless you have a Turbo Porsche or Saab Aero or the like.

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Snotty on November 30, 2010, 08:08:55 AM
[/QUOTE]


 
Amen Bobby. 
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on November 30, 2010, 12:52:41 PM
What worked in the past won't work any longer if the zinc isn't there... Physics and Chemistry.

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 30, 2010, 02:58:08 PM

just toss in this bottle Snotty and use your oil to your hearts desire....

http://www.zddplus.com/ (http://www.zddplus.com/)

(http://www.zddplus.com/imgs/zddplus_4oz.gif)


Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Snotty on December 01, 2010, 01:40:34 PM
Let me see, lisenced driver for 36 years, 14 cars in that time, GTX always, no problems, but now - Hell no my cars are all going to fail!!!
Gentlemen, the question of this thread is/was - what oil do you use?  It was not, "Tell what oil you use and why some other guy is a dumb-ass for using the one he chooses."
There are times when simply answering the question is a lot more helpful than offering advice.
 
Moving on....
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on December 01, 2010, 01:57:37 PM
 This is a well known problem with the 2.4 engine - it was designed way back in the 90's  when we still had good oil, and the thrust bearing is simply too small to take the load without a high pressure additive in the oil. 
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on December 02, 2010, 04:50:20 AM
If the zinc is not there, non-roller cams will fail, and that is a
fact, plain and simple... ignore it at your peril. Don't be so
thin-skinned, no one is saying anyone is a "dumb-ass", but not everyone
is aware of this problem, which has been scientifically investigated
and is the evidence is well documented. GTX was a fine oil, and still
is... for roller engines. However zinc is no longer added, thus it
lacks the protection old engines need, just add the stuff Bob said if
you want to use it.

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on December 02, 2010, 05:35:07 AM

Quote from: firedome
.... Don't be so
thin-skinned, no one is saying anyone is a "dumb-ass", but not everyone
is aware of this problem ....
Snotty doesn't particularly care for much I have to say, he knows what he knows and doesn't like to be told any different.....
Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: firedome on December 02, 2010, 12:37:48 PM
If years driving (44) and cars owned (150+) are a criteria for knowledge then I'm a frickin' genius!

Title: ¿¿¿What about oil???
Post by: Rich on December 02, 2010, 03:30:22 PM
 I started driving when I was 12, so that's about 44 years too! I learned in our '54 Chevy farm truck on the dirt and two lane roads out in the country. I think I've only owned about 40 cars though...