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Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Anthony Prescott on November 14, 2010, 11:03:52 AM

Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 14, 2010, 11:03:52 AM
ok... the intake has a side mounted water line coming from the water pump. i want to change the intake to accomidate fuel injection. where do i rout this line to? i was told not to cap it off, so can i just run it into the heater hose???? thanks in advance. -a(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Guests on November 14, 2010, 12:41:14 PM
Leave it alone. You should be running the fuel line rails with a crossover at the front and fuel in from the rear of the block instead of in from the front. There is plenty of room between the distributor and the intake manifold, rails should end well before these hoses come into play.  Not sure how these heater hoses are anywhere in the way of the fuel rails or fuel lines.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 14, 2010, 01:10:27 PM
i dont think i get it... the water line from the water pump threads into the intake... i want to change the intake, therefore, no place for the water line to go... where can i rout it, or is it necessary for the industrial heads to have the water running from the intake?
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Brian on November 14, 2010, 04:31:24 PM
I'm not familiar with the industrial 413 set-up.  Can you post a pic so we know what we are working with.




Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Guests on November 14, 2010, 05:14:12 PM
Yes, please post a picture of the engine, the 413, industrial or not, is a completely water-free intake, and if it isn't, well, it isn't a  big block. As a backup, I know there are some industrial engines that do have water outlets on the front of the heads, but not part of the intake manifold, and if it is (I do find stuff that doesn't fit in the known pegs at times, and if it is a wet intake on an RB 413 then I will apologize and admit an error), I really would like a picture.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 14, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
pics are too big to load.  Snotty posted this for me earlier...:
Water pump by-pass.  Your water pump never stops turning when the motor runs, so it constantly moves the coolant.  The coolant has to move somewhere, even when the thermostat is closed, so the bypass allows for a constant movement.  Without it something would go POP real quick.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 15, 2010, 02:44:12 AM
WTF is all this water pump bypass stuff?  I'm finding this all very confusing....
Commando12010-11-15 08:29:15
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 15, 2010, 03:07:27 AM
Another forum on the 413 (http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-28914.html)

Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Guests on November 15, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think I know what is going on, as an industrial engine, it has a manifold heater for cold climate running, I think I found a picture of it. Does it also have the water hose going to the exhaust manifolds, too? Here is what you can do. Take this cast iron part that connects the heads together, make a plate for each one and block them off, put a stock water pump on her, and when you pull the water pump off, pull the timing cover off and make sure it isn't a reverse engine with a gear drive (food for thought).
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Brian on November 15, 2010, 03:39:34 PM

Quote from: Commando1
WTF is all this water pump bypass stuff?  I'm finding this all very confusing....

I'm with Stan......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)

Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Guests on November 15, 2010, 08:15:21 PM
 



http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dodge+413+industrial+engine&FORM=BIFD#focal=f02e912feb93947cd57d4ef90ef6e295&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fi198.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa271%2Fepitomy_2007%2Framcharger073.jpg (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dodge+413+industrial+engine&FORM=BIFD#focal=f02e912feb93947cd57d4ef90ef6e295&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fi198.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa271%2Fepitomy_2007%2Framcharger073.jpg)
This might be a close picture of it. Not sure if this is what he really has, but there is a cast iron water connector between the two heads on the front in order to cycle warm water around the engine intake and sometimes exhaust manifolds (marine setup I think), thus, if this thing is real industrial, my suggestion is to put a stock water pump on her, along with the water pump housing, scrap the intake and use the heater hose outlets on the WPH like a normal engine. One thing I have a concern with is engine rotation direction, some industrial engines, especially if it has this heating setup, may be reverse rotation.
 
dana442010-11-16 01:16:54
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 15, 2010, 09:24:18 PM
ok... thats the engine. Doesnt have anything going into the exhaust though. i dont want to change the water pump or cap off the heads because they are supposed to be water cooled. i just want to replace the damn intake. is this water line necessary? i dont know if its reverse rotation or not. never took it appart. CAN I RE-ROUT THIS STUPID WATER LINE? THATS ALL I WANT TO DO WITH IT. i dont want to change the water pump or the heads. this is in my truck. NOT FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE. where do i rout the damn line to?
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Brian on November 15, 2010, 10:23:09 PM
I don't see any water lines running to the intake, just the crossover from head to head. 

We're trying to help you, but without pics, and some knowledge of what your system is doing it's hard to get an idea of what to do.  Did you get my PM?


Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 16, 2010, 08:09:32 AM
yeah, but i dont have a pic that shows it and i am on vacation right now and cant look at it. this is all i have.(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/epitomy_2007/ramcharger073.jpg) moparmanof852010-11-16 13:10:17
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 16, 2010, 08:12:38 AM
this is the one you sent for me, but its useless. where´s DOC FIBERGLASS when you need him?
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2010, 11:52:25 AM


Quote from: moparmanof85
yeah, but i dont have a pic that shows it and i am on vacation
 right now and cant look at it. this is all i have.


(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/epitomy_2007/ramcharger065.jpg)



Where he always hangs out.  I just talked to him.  Moparts.  
Commando12010-11-16 16:53:55
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Snotty on November 16, 2010, 01:31:13 PM
Those twe waterlines should be for heater core - in and out.  On a standard water-pump they are on the top as well, only much lower on the front of the motor.  You can cap both of them with no problems.  As said earlier, there is no water/coolant in a Mopar Big-block intake.
 
Well, if there is you have a problem.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 16, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
THAT SHOWS IT!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT NEXT TO THE THERMOSTAT RISER.  ITS BLUE IN COLOR. if you look closely, you see where it goes toward. its routes under the plug wires on top of the intake manifold going toward the carb. its blue there too, but the paint´s all chipped. moparmanof852010-11-16 18:47:38
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2010, 05:51:24 PM
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jux1ue.jpg)

On 413s with that weirdo water pump housing, the 413 is a reverse rotating engine.  This is because of the direct gear driven cam.  Your only choice is to dump those heads and put on normal heads.







Commando12010-11-16 23:06:33
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: 300rag on November 16, 2010, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: Commando1
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jux1ue.jpg)





 
 
 
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)      I'm not that mechanically wise, but why would you want a chain if this set-up is available??  Looks like it could be a lot  more trouble free.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 17, 2010, 02:54:50 AM
If it is reverse then you would need a standard cam.. and like I said earlier you will need to check for the knurled crank at the rear main seal that is made to seal in the reverse direction. Just like in the marine engines.

Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 17, 2010, 03:15:51 AM

Quote from: 300Rag
Quote from: Commando1
 why would you want a chain if this set-up is available??  Looks like it could be a lot  more trouble free.
Big and clunky and heavy.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Corey on November 17, 2010, 07:03:33 AM
Quote from: Commando1
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jux1ue.jpg)

If im looking at this right it appears to me that the crank runs counter clockwise which turns the cam clockwise so the only thing you would have to do is get the sprockets and a chain and change the rear seal but i could be wrong on that i dont know much about reverse running engines.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Anthony Prescott on November 17, 2010, 09:52:31 AM
makes sense, all or nothing when it comes to the odd ball parts.
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 17, 2010, 12:31:10 PM
$%#@  I don't remember the original question....
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Guests on November 17, 2010, 07:22:33 PM
Need to change out the crankshaft because the oil holes in the journals are also reverse and won't work on the street very long (maybe an hour from what I recall, rod bearings spinnng the opposite direction to boot. This is why I said pull the timing cover off to ensure the engine was not a reverse direction engine. 
 
Wouldn't it be funnier than a rubber crutch if you had four reverse speeds and one forward gear?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif)
Title: 413 industrial intake again
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 18, 2010, 02:47:38 AM


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Commando12010-11-18 07:48:15