MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - STEERING WHEELS AND SUSPENSION => Topic started by: attkrlufy on October 24, 2010, 05:45:08 AM

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 24, 2010, 05:45:08 AM
What the title says. *wink*

For whatever reason the rear leaf springs in Wanda are arced such that the poop-deck of my car is about 1 1/2-2" lower than it should be.  I cannot afford to re-arc them, nor can I afford new ones.  So....

How does one get lift in the rear, cheaply and easily?

Shimming sounds complicated.  I was thinking the easiest way might be to get longer spring hangers.  Aren't there adjustable-length hangers for rear springs?  Or, at least, fixed-length hangers that provide some lift?


Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Steve on October 24, 2010, 06:22:24 AM
Load Leveler shocks, Air Shocks are about the only way
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 24, 2010, 08:42:35 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
Load Leveler shocks, Air Shocks are about the only way
I used Monroe air shocks in The Nyb.  Not an ideal situation because no matter what you do to make sure all the fittings are completely air tight, the shocks still leak down.  Plus, to raise the azz significantly, the shocks become increasingly rock hard.  But like you say....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif)
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 24, 2010, 09:56:27 AM
"needs some lift in the rear" ... So does my wife!



I used Monroe Air Shocks for when I pulled our horse trailer with our
'77 Gran Fury, and they DIDN'T leak down, no matter how long, even
after using them for almost 10 years...but they DID ride as hard as
hell when they were pumped all the way up. You can vary the air
pressure though.







Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 24, 2010, 10:14:33 AM
Seriously?  You can pump them up to, let's say, 60 psi and a month later it will still be 60 psi ?
(http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/shocked.gif)



Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 24, 2010, 10:23:25 AM
I don't know about a month, but I would leave air in it sometimes after
trailering and  not use the car for a couple weeks and it would
still be rock hard... I didn't measure the air pressure, but I never
noticed any reduction in rear ride height no matter how long I left
it.  Sometimes I jacked it up for fun, just for a little of that
redneck look, that Fury looked mean with it's butt up in the air an
extra 5"! 

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 24, 2010, 10:44:22 AM
I can't go 2 weeks w/o a refill. 
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 24, 2010, 12:37:41 PM
That's the thing - when I bought Wanda she already had air shocks on her.  They were shot to heck and useless.  I replaced them - and removed all the tubing - with regular KYBs.  I really don't want to go the "air shock" route again.  I just don't trust 'em to be a dependable, viable option.

So longer hangers won't work?


Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 24, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
I used coil over spring with a Muffler clamp on the top and bottom over the shock. Been like that for 13 years..

I'm gonna change it next year to some new springs.


Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Dan Cluley on October 25, 2010, 01:27:28 AM
Longer spring shackles should be available at your local parts store.  Check the bolt size that you need.  There's a limit to how much they will help, but probably will get you that 1 or 2" you need.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 25, 2010, 03:47:09 AM


Quote from: attkrlufy
So longer hangers won't work?

Do NOT do it.
Commando12010-10-25 08:47:26
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Guests on October 25, 2010, 07:42:55 AM
Change one leaf to a heavier truck leaf. They are thicker, have better lift, does the job. Mopars have always been known for leaf springs going weak, I have done about a dozen upgrades like this on the cheap.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 26, 2010, 08:11:21 PM


Quote from: dana44
Change one leaf to a heavier truck leaf. They are thicker, have better lift, does the job. Mopars have always been known for leaf springs going weak, I have done about a dozen upgrades like this on the cheap.
Which leaf works best to get that proper "arc" back if they have gone flat?  The top-most or bottom-most leaf?  Oh, and what's something like that usually run you in $$?
attkrlufy2010-10-27 01:11:53
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Guests on October 27, 2010, 07:08:46 PM
Go out to the salvage yard and find a half ton truck, find leaves that are the same width as your leaves (somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0inches wide).  You want to keep the leaf with the bushings in it for your vehicle, and two or three of the longer leaves will be sufficient, kind of match up the length of yours to the ones on the truck set so they look more stock. I


To do the actual transplant, a large C clamp is needed and the old jack and jack stands. Remove the rear tires after she is jacked up and standed, undo the U bolts ( you can actually do one side at a time), jack the rear end up enough that the leaves are hanging free with about 4-5 inches of rear end clearance (need work space), C clamp where the center bolt is, undo the bolt, undo the C clamp gently, replace leaves, use a very long bolt to help line them all up when reclamping with the C clamp for ease, remove the long bolt, replace with the actual guide bolt, reinstall. There are some leaf clamps that may need removed and reinstalled, but that is peripherals, takes about 9 minutes each side plus any cleaning/greasing you may need to do.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 28, 2010, 04:05:18 AM
Dom, there's a yard between you and me that has a ton of older 1/2 and
3/4 ton Mopar pickups, PM me or better yet call for more info. Yard
weather here is running out fast!

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 28, 2010, 10:08:18 AM

Quote from: dana44
Go out to the salvage yard and find a half ton truck, find leaves that are the same width as your leaves (somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0inches wide). [rest snipped]
Ooof - I'm sure it's simple, but reading that makes it sound complicated in parts.

Quote from: dana44
"You want to keep the leaf with the bushings in it for your vehicle, and two or three of the longer leaves will be sufficient..."
You kinda lost me there.  I get why I have to keep my leaf w/ the bushings...but do you mean keep two or three of MY car's longer leaves, or to take 2-3 of the truck leaves as replacements for my leaves?

P.S. Didn't cop R-body springs come with an extra leaf?  5 instead of 4?  Would this be an opportunity to add the extra leaf to get a bit more lift that way?

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 28, 2010, 03:34:41 PM
Where do you find a cop R body these days? - just wonderin...from a former R body owner x 3.





Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Guests on October 28, 2010, 10:40:12 PM
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, got a little rushed with the kid, so let me clarify.  Historically, Mopar truck springs were of different quality than the cars, so they are good donors.
 
The idea is to replace two or three old leaves in the car with a couple of similar length truck leaves. You are right, keep the leaf with the bushings on your car, and as a matter of fact you don't even have to unbolt them from the car doing it this way, so the rear geometry remains stock.
 
Once the leaf is broken apart as described with the C clamp, yes, you can add an additional leaf (remove two or three of your car leafs and replace them with two or three or four leafs from the truck leafs). A note of caution is, if you are going to add an additional leaf to the car, you will need to get or make a new center bolt because it will be guaranteed, too short, but not a big deal. The center bolt has a round head on it, so you can get a proper length bolt after you get the leafs clamped together (NAPA carries them, or make your own by grinding the head round or taking a lathe to it, or possibly the truck bolt will be long enough and actually be cut to length).
 
Get the bolt in the correct direction, always embarrassing when you have to clamp the spring, pull the bolt out and flip if over(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) 
 
For the R body police springs, measure center bolt to outer bushing (both directions) and bushing to bushing, (verifies overall length and whether the rear end is centered the same on the leafs), you have a fifty-fifty chance they will bolt in direct (they will or they won't), so, if they won't, again, keep your bushing spring and change out all the leafs no matter how many there are (as long as the springs aren't sagging, too).
 
Hope this clarifies a bit.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 29, 2010, 04:02:53 AM
What about just adding another regular R body spring? There is a
standard 79 Newport in the same yard I mentioned earlier. I've never
seen a cop car R body in a yard, ever.

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 29, 2010, 06:29:48 AM

Quote from: firedome
I've never
seen a cop car R body in a yard, ever.
I know a boneyard in a town called "West Alexander" - it's in extreme W. PA just off I80 - that has THREE R-bodies, TWO of which are cop cars and the other is a 5th Ave NYer.  They're pretty well thrashed and rusted; the NYer doesn't even have an interior (I should know, 'cause I'm the one that stripped it) - but, hey, parts is parts.

'79 Cop St. Regis
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2534033116_bd4713e615_m.jpg)

'80 Cop Gran Fury
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/2534032276_6fca591028_m.jpg)

'79 NYer
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2297/2144257028_db7b9ba083_m.jpg)

It's called Martin's Auto.  Problem is, it's not really a U-pull, so he's not thrilled to have people over, and the guy - JD Martin - is a nice guy but waaaaaay too scatterbrained to pull requested parts.  I've given up trying to get parts off those cop cars from him via the phone.  You've got to be there in person - and will probably have to stay a few nights - and that's just too far for me.

But the rear springs on the Regis look like they're holding the car up nice and high:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2407/2533218935_293194604d_m.jpg)

I know the area well 'cause I used to live there.  Anyone up for a road trip?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)







Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Guests on October 29, 2010, 06:36:25 AM
Like I said, if they are confirmed to be the same measurement at center connection point, and distance forward and back, yeah, swap the whole spring. It also is a good time to replace those front and rear rubber bushings while they are out, when they start wearing out, they do get a bit mushy. I would figure $100-125 would be a fair price for a pair. If the front bracket is the same as the B bodies, its four nuts to take off and the rear shackle bolts or nuts on the rear, and the U bolts at the rear end, pretty easy.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on October 29, 2010, 06:39:50 AM

Quote from: dana44
Sorry, got a little rushed with the kid, so let me clarify.  Historically, Mopar truck springs were of different quality than the cars, so they are good donors.
Thanks Dana44, that did help.  But since the leaves swap out individually - lemmie ask you this - do the springs themselves swap?  I mean, as a unit.  Can I just take the springs off a 1/2 ton pickup and bolt it to the back of Wanda to get the lift I'm looking for?

I realized last night this might be harder than I thought because along with the springs, I have a rear stabilizer I got off a '79 Cordoba that I want to add.  I THINK - if I read my parts catalog correctly, I have to get a different spring plate than the one I currently have.  There seem to be two listed - one that accepts a rear stabilizer and one that doesn't.  They both have different part #s as well.



Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on October 29, 2010, 07:46:37 AM
2 cop cars... Wow!!  I'd love an 80 Gran Fury...

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Guests on October 29, 2010, 07:25:30 PM
[/QUOTE]

I can just about guarantee the distances of the three points (front bushing to center pin, rear bushing to center pin, and overall length) between a truck and a car are different, thus the swap method to beef up the springs while retaining the stock location of the rear end. Trucks tend to be more evenly spaced front to rear, cars are longer in rear/shorter in front, in relation to the rear end. And I can imagine there is a difference in shock/U-bolt plate for the rear sway bar, but check the ends, it may be a bracket of quarter inch plate that simply comes off the U bolts for the rear end portion of the swaybar. Maybe an internet picture, or even one of the suspension companies that do swaybars migh have a picture for reference.
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: attkrlufy on November 01, 2010, 07:30:30 AM
Dana44 - that makes sense.  I guess I'll have to do what you mentioned before and remove individual leaves from the truck springs and put them in my own unit.

...but I'll wait 'till the spring (no pun intended) to do it.  It's getting too cold up here to crawl around on the ground in a U-pull-it.  Why couldn't I live in Florida instead of upstate NY? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)


Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: firedome on November 01, 2010, 08:27:39 AM
What, with all those blue hairs and old coots that eat at 4 PM?

Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 01, 2010, 10:55:37 AM


Quote from: attkrlufy
  Why couldn't I live in Florida instead of upstate NY? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)


(http://www.mecps.org/konkoth/palm%20trees.jpg)

Commando12010-11-01 14:56:33
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Steve on November 01, 2010, 11:32:16 AM
He forgot to tell you he lives in the Ghetto
Title: Need some lift in the rear
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 01, 2010, 04:00:01 PM
As the snow flies
On a cold and gray chicago mornin
A poor little
baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
cause if
theres one thing that she dont need
Its another hungry mouth to feed
In
 the ghetto

Great now I have an Elvis song in my head.. LOL