MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - FUEL => Topic started by: Anthony Prescott on September 29, 2010, 07:50:49 PM

Title: propane
Post by: Anthony Prescott on September 29, 2010, 07:50:49 PM
if i run a big block on propane, do i have to smog it? 
Title: propane
Post by: Jason Goldsack on September 30, 2010, 03:11:51 AM
I would think you will need to check with your local DMV. The nice thing about propane is the 116 octane rating. You can run 12.5 to 1 pistons on that stuff.

Title: propane
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 30, 2010, 04:25:07 AM

Quote from: moparmanof85
if i run a big block on propane, do i have to smog it? 
C.A.R.B. is so absolute in their distorted thinking, they make the rules as they go along, so who knows.
Title: propane
Post by: firedome on September 30, 2010, 04:34:58 AM
It'd probably pass regardless, they run so clean... Sjak is the real
expert on propane here.  My guess is that if oldsters like me 'n
Stan n' Steve live long enough, we may eventually have to run our
antiques on propane in order to keep them on the road, for emissions,
if not fuel availability, reasons.  A guy has offered me a propane
rig off a Pontiac V8, but I have no idea what to do with it.

Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 05:47:31 AM
It's actually cleaner than the smog.  You don't have the Hydrocarbons like liquid does.
 
Propane is a by-product of distilling petrolium.  There wouldn't be enough of it for everyone to run on it, that's part of the reason we don't.  LNG is another source, but the oil companies are blocking that.
Title: propane
Post by: Snotty on September 30, 2010, 09:07:02 AM
Smog checks are required for all California cars 1976 and newer.  Diesels are exempt. 
 
If you have a car that is in these years it must be "factory correct" as to the mechanicals of the car, not the fuel. 
 
For instance, you can run propane in a '81 Cordoba with a slant 6 motor - that's nbot a problem.  What you cannot do is pass Smog if you replaced the /6 witha  318 or any other motor.  The motor MUST be the same as indicated by the VIN. 
 
You can take that /6 and upgrade it to FI, but you canot take an FI motr and swap it to a carburator.   
 
If your car/truck/motorhome is older than 1975 there's no need to worry...
 
...unless it blows smoke and you get pulled over by a CHP for smog violation.  There's no exemption in that case for a car dating to 1966.  Most people in this State do not know that.
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 09:37:53 AM
I keep forgetting California is a foreign country.  They beat to a different drum
Title: propane
Post by: firedome on September 30, 2010, 10:53:26 AM


Propane is by definition a Hydrocarbon, being a 3 Carbon chain with
Hydrogen atoms attached, and ALL petroleum base fuels, liquid or
gaseous, are Hydrocarbons, kerosene, gasoline and diesel being complex
mixtures
of all kinds of medium-short and long chain non-aromatic and aromatic
(a structural, not smell, designation meaning ringed like benzene or straight like butane)
carbon compounds, columnar fractionation
being used to separate them in the refinery, and LNG being a mix of
propane, butane, methane etc short chain hydrocarbons compressed to a
liquid state... virtually all hydrocarbon fuels contain some sulfur
compounds, as well, and  O2 and nitrogen in the air produces
combustion products in the case of propane that, while very clean,
still contain some oxides of nitrogen and hydrocarbons as well as water
vapor... sorry just the Organic Chem teacher in me coming out...
firedome2010-09-30 16:04:59
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
What he say?
Title: propane
Post by: Anthony Prescott on September 30, 2010, 03:23:10 PM
this question is primarily for Mr Firedome............i have a background in molecular chemistry as well as physics. my initial plan was to build a hydrogen hybrid. its already in the works. would 2 fuels, used at the same time, classify my vehicle ( in california) as a hybrid?
Title: propane
Post by: Guests on September 30, 2010, 03:42:09 PM
You mean like running regular and premium at the same time?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
By definition it has to be powered by different power sources, not two different fuel sources, so gas and natural gas wouldn't qualify, but gas and electricity does. This is by definition, not what will be allowed.
 
California law is 1974 and earlier is exempt. It was supposed to be anything older than 30 years, but when 2004 came around, California got this bright idea to regulate and be the leader in the global warming initiatives, including regulating and controlling vehicles on the streets, so between the environmentalist wackos and the save the whales in Palm Springs folks have gone overboard and we were stupid enough to believe these people were going to govern us for our safety, not to control us to death.
Title: propane
Post by: firedome on September 30, 2010, 03:55:40 PM
Molecular Chemistry studies chemical bonding. My background (degrees)
are in Biochemistry, wherein, as in all chemistry, reactions are
determined by forces such chemical bonds, electron orbital states, and
energy levels.   My middle son is a Nuclear (Particle) Physicist,
which deals mostly with sub-atomic and elemental forces, muons, quarks,
leptons, etc,  that are also expresed at the atomic and molecular
level.  He worked on the Relativistic Heavy Ion Super Collider
(RHISC) at Brookhaven National Labs in NY.  As far a a Hydrogen
hybrid is concerned, that seems redundant, since Hydrogen, in a fuel
cell, would be its own energy generator, not needing any batteries or
hybrid regenerative braking systems to produce or store energy for
propulsion. Unlike a fuel cell, hybrids rely on gas or diesel to run an
electric motor with battery backup for storage. Not sure of your
concept. 

Title: propane
Post by: Anthony Prescott on September 30, 2010, 05:11:36 PM
so much for that. guess ill do it anyway and register it in oregon. its a big block going in a newer truck. i guess thats what i'll do.
Title: propane
Post by: Brian on September 30, 2010, 05:34:32 PM

Quote from: dana44
You mean like running regular and premium at the same time?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)................(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)



Title: propane
Post by: Guests on September 30, 2010, 05:58:15 PM
Quote from: thrashingcows
Quote from: dana44
You mean like running regular and premium at the same time?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

You like that, huh?
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 06:15:40 PM
Quote from: moparmanof85
this question is primarily for Mr Firedome............i have a background in molecular chemistry as well as physics. my initial plan was to build a hydrogen hybrid. its already in the works. would 2 fuels, used at the same time, classify my vehicle ( in california) as a hybrid?
 
I'm messing with that on my Diesel.  My problem is, there is so much vacuum on the intake, pre-turbo, it sucks the tank dry.  But when it is running and I have 5 Gallons of water in reserve, it runs like a bat out of hell and gets around 27 MPG.  Not bad for 8000 #.  I have to come up with a different tank for the plates now.
 
What do you call that Ed? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) 
Title: propane
Post by: Guests on September 30, 2010, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Quote from: moparmanof85
this question is primarily for Mr Firedome............i have a background in molecular chemistry as well as physics. my initial plan was to build a hydrogen hybrid. its already in the works. would 2 fuels, used at the same time, classify my vehicle ( in california) as a hybrid?
 
I'm messing with that on my Diesel.  My problem is, there is so much vacuum on the intake, pre-turbo, it sucks the tank dry.  But when it is running and I have 5 Gallons of water in reserve, it runs like a bat out of hell and gets around 27 MPG.  Not bad for 8000 #.  I have to come up with a different tank for the plates now.
 

Good gas mileage?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Let me get this straight. You basically have water injection for your turbo diesel and it really likes to suck the water. Are you converting it to steam so as to atomize it better so it will break down to hydrogen and oxygen more efficiently or just a mist of water into the intake side of the turbo?
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 06:47:03 PM
No Duh (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  I have a Hydrogen Generator.  It runs on water and baking soda.  I wasn't planning on it being water injection.  The vacuum is too great in the intake box.  I can't put it on the down side of the turbo. . . The pressure is way too high
 
POLARACO2010-09-30 23:50:52
Title: propane
Post by: Snotty on September 30, 2010, 06:55:04 PM
Quote from: dana44
 


 
I'm not going to keep arguing, so here it is from the CA.gov site:
 




Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles manufactured prior to 1998 or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, hybrids, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older.

Title: propane
Post by: Guests on September 30, 2010, 06:55:28 PM
A different tank for the plates. Are the plates themselves wearing down faster or does the tank just go dry faster than you thought it should?

Title: propane
Post by: Snotty on September 30, 2010, 06:57:09 PM
Quote from: moparmanof85
its a big block going in a newer truck.
Quote
 
Ah, mystery solved.  Nope, can't be done.
 
There was a guy who stuffed a 392 into a '79 Pickup in the Bay Area and tried to sell it for two years in Hemmings.
 
It's probably still available.
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 07:07:50 PM
Plates aren't wearing down.  They'll go a while, stainless.  The tank is being sucked dry by the intake.  Once the electrolyte is gone, it does nothing.
 
2 conversations goin on here.
Title: propane
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 01, 2010, 01:25:53 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
No Duh (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  I have a Hydrogen Generator.
 

I tried to get my Windsor to run on Potatoes and Mars bars.

Now I can't fill up the car with fuel since I pushed potatoes in the filler neck trying to get them in the tank and the Mars bars messed up my piston return springs..

(http://kalecoauto.com/images/pistonspring.jpg)

Also I was wondering.. I have an 8 cylinder engine.. which cylinder is the Master Cylinder? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)

1965Windsor3612010-10-01 06:30:39
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 07:46:56 AM
Drinking again Jason?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: propane
Post by: Guests on October 01, 2010, 09:16:21 AM
Kerry and Joe make responses about the American people being too stupid to vote, and this just gives them that much more ammunition(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif).
Title: propane
Post by: firedome on October 01, 2010, 11:06:14 AM
and that has what to do with propane?
firedome2010-10-01 16:06:37
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 11:31:46 AM
Quote from: dana44
Kerry and Joe make responses about the American people being too stupid to vote, and this just gives them that much more ammunition(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif).



 
Drinking again Ed?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 11:33:32 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)

I would run porpane as a supplement if it weren't so expensive and hard to find while travelling.  At least with the generator, I could have a unlimited supply.
Title: propane
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 01, 2010, 02:52:07 PM

Just add some adjustable power bands

(http://kalecoauto.com/images/powerband.jpg)

Then strap on a boost bar and you will make some hug power

(http://kalecoauto.com/images/barofboost.jpg)

1965Windsor3612010-10-01 19:52:38
Title: propane
Post by: Anthony Prescott on October 01, 2010, 03:14:51 PM
glad to see theres someone with half a brain out there. the hydrogen generator, or electrolisys unit, is a great idea. i started building one in my spart time. its finished now and running in my 91 ram. gets around 49 mpg with it. and yes, it sucks up a lot of water. i put a 2nd gas tank in it and used it for the reserve water tank. its ideal because its got the electric pump and i can hook a regulsr gas guage to it. its working well. i didnt go the baking soda rout though. i use regular tap water because it has all of the minerals in it that act as electrolytes. no need for baking soda. thats why yours is gumming up. use some CLR to clean it out every 500 miles or so.
Title: propane
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 04:06:09 PM
Mine's not gumming up at all.  It just sucks all the water out of it.  I can see all the water stains in the air cleaner
Title: propane
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 02, 2010, 03:17:40 AM

Quote from: 1965Windsor361
 
Also I was wondering.. I have an 8 cylinder engine.. which cylinder is the Master Cylinder?

The one with the seven slaves around it.
Title: propane
Post by: Jacques on October 02, 2010, 04:14:17 AM

Quote from: firedome
It'd probably pass regardless, they run so clean...
True.

Op Propane or LPG, combustion is much cleaner than on any liquid fuel in a carburetted engine.

This is partially due to a much better mixture, as a result you get a more complete combustion, and therefore lower carbonmonoxide readings, and virtually no carbon deposits (actually the engine would flood before you get deposits in the combustion chamber).

There's a lot to tell about cars running on propane / LPG / .... and I would be happy to answer specific questions :)

Title: propane
Post by: Anthony Prescott on October 02, 2010, 08:42:22 AM
do they make you smoog it???
Title: propane
Post by: Jacques on October 02, 2010, 12:33:52 PM
Over here (Netherlands),cars also have to meet certain emission requirements, depending on year and type of vehicle. On LPG / Propane, its really extremely easy (unless its an oil boat)


Title: propane
Post by: firedome on October 03, 2010, 03:04:32 PM
As I said before.