MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: Scott on July 11, 2010, 05:46:35 PM

Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 11, 2010, 05:46:35 PM

The Blower Motor will not blow above Low when the Heater or Defroster is selected. Max Cool and Fr Cool both blow at all speeds. I know it is not the Blower Motor Switch because if it was faulty the speeds wouldn't vary regardless of what was selected. I swapped out the Blower Motor Resistor today with a known working unit and the problem still exists. I installed a new A/C and Heater Switch before I restored the car and it worked fine. Does anybody have an idea what it could be? 


rexus312010-07-11 22:48:57
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 12, 2010, 05:35:18 AM
Could be the sequence of the siring on the vacuum switch.  I have the manual out for the 65 now, so I can look it up later.  In the mean time, check the wiring on the switch for it being in the proper place.  The other place to check is the resistor.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 12, 2010, 05:52:11 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
Could be the sequence of the siring on the vacuum switch.  I have the manual out for the 65 now, so I can look it up later.  In the mean time, check the wiring on the switch for it being in the proper place.  The other place to check is the resistor.

Cool, thanks.  I'm hoping it is as simple as having a wire plugged in in the wrong place.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 12, 2010, 05:54:28 AM
That would have been the first place to look in a case likr that. . .  It's probably at the resistor, but there are 2 wires you could have messed up on the switch too.
 
Hey!  It happens.  I do that all the time.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 12, 2010, 06:06:10 AM
The weird thing is it will blow on High for about 2 seconds then it backs off to Low.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 12, 2010, 08:13:41 AM
You didn't say that. . .  Now I don't know.  It works OK in A/C Mode, but not heater or def???? 
Interesting
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 12, 2010, 01:14:34 PM
Exactly.  All speeds work in A/C mode but not in Heater or Defrost mode.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 12, 2010, 01:49:15 PM
I need to study the wiring.  PM me your cell phone #
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 13, 2010, 01:30:05 AM
I've been looking at the FSM, and my head hurts!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
In the electrical section there is the main dash wiring diagram.  This has the setup for Non-A/C cars (like mine)  Then there is an inset in the corner with the controls & wiring for an A/C car.
Finally back in the A/C section there is another small diagram with the controls & wiring.
 
As far as I can tell there is an error in the Non-A/C diagram.  The wires are all correct, but one of the internal connections on the resistor block is swapped. 
 
The two different diagrams for A/C cars do not quite match each other, and I'm suspicious thatl neither one matches what actually exists in a '65 Chrysler!!!!
 
---------------------------
2 questions Scott:
 
How many speeds does your fan have?
 
Can you easily get a picture or description of the wires that plug into the resistor block?  I'm pretty sure its in the same general area as mine.  Which is on the front of the heater box, just up under the dash a little right of center.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 04:19:40 AM

Quote from: D Cluley
2 questions Scott:
 
How many speeds does your fan have?
 

I have a three speed motor; Low, Medium, High.  I will try to get a photo of the resistor and wires later today.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 05:21:22 AM
The area under the dash is too tight to get a good pic.  Below is a diagram I made of the connections and wiring of the Blower Motor Resistor.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c206/rexus31/Reference%20Pics/ResistorWiring.jpg)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2010, 06:12:38 AM
Sorry Scott, I didn't get a chance to look.  By the time I got inside I went right to bed.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 06:53:05 AM

Sorry Scott, I didn't get a chance to look.  By the time I got inside I went right to bed.[/QUOTE]

No worries.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2010, 05:20:36 PM
Scott
 
The only thing I see is
 
I show C7 as C8 in the drawing.
 
Based on what I am seeing, it has to work either way.  It can't be a bad resistor.
 
However, now that I have looked at the drawing, I am suspicious of the vacuum switch.  It could be it is making a poor connection when it's in the heater defrost mode.  The contacts are at the opposite end of the switch in relation to the buttons.
 
You said you put in a new vacuum switch.  Is that the only thing new in the circuit?  The other question is, are you sure the dampers are not closing and fooling you?
 
I suggest you take voltage readings at all points on the resistor in the AC mode and then again in Heat/Def.  Lets see what is changing
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 06:06:40 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Scott
 
The only thing I see is
 
I show C7 as C8 in the drawing.
 
Based on what I am seeing, it has to work either way.  It can't be a bad resistor.
 
However, now that I have looked at the drawing, I am suspicious of the vacuum switch.  It could be it is making a poor connection when it's in the heater defrost mode.  The contacts are at the opposite end of the switch in relation to the buttons.
 
You said you put in a new vacuum switch.  Is that the only thing new in the circuit?  The other question is, are you sure the dampers are not closing and fooling you?
 


The vacuum switch, speed switch and resistor are all verified as working used units.  I will also check the connections at the back of the vacuum switch.  Maybe one of them came loose.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2010, 06:08:51 PM
Multimeter Scott
 
check all the terminals.  I want to try to narrow it down to a particular circuit.  I sure hope it's not the harness.  I am assuming you had a new dash harness made too. ?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 06:14:41 PM
No, my existing harness was refurbished by my buddy who is a tech at M&H.  He said he checked all the harnesses and they all looked good.  He just cleaned them up, checked all the splices and connectors and re-taped them.  FWIW, here's the wiring diagram out the 1965 A/C FSM.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c206/rexus31/Reference%20Pics/CandHeaterWiring.jpg)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2010, 07:19:56 PM
MMMMM   I see where you got C7 from.  That's a different page than I was looking at.  My book is an original from 65.  I'll shoot a shot of the page in the morning.  In the mean time, I'll look in the AC section and compare.  My info came from the general electrical section.  Shows all the wiring at once.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2010, 07:26:09 PM


Quote from: POLARACO
MMMMM   I see where you got C7 from.  That's a different page than I was looking at.  My book is an original from 65.  I'll shoot a shot of the page in the morning.  In the mean time, I'll look in the AC section and compare.  My info came from the general electrical section.  Shows all the wiring at once.

My wiring matches the diagram I posted which came from the supplemental 1965 Chrysler Air Conditioning Service Manual.  The A/C section in the complete FSM is not very good which is probably why they came out with the supplemental manual specific to A/C.  
rexus312010-07-14 00:26:58
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 13, 2010, 10:58:19 PM
I'm guessing that the electrical diagram in the AC section of the FSM is actual for the Imperials.  The main dash wiring diagram for Imps doesn't show any AC option, and the wire number/color charts match up. 

The supplimental diagram that Scott has is different than what they show in the main Chrysler dash wiring diagram and makes more sense.






 
I actually think they screwed up the resistor wiring for both AC and Non AC cars in the FSM.  That'll give you a warm fuzzy feeling won't it!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 14, 2010, 03:58:53 AM
Scott, on your drawn diagram you show C4a connected in two places, and no C8.  I'm guessing this is just a typo, but wanted to veryify that.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ResistorWiring.jpg)
 
 
 
After a little more review of the supliment diagram, I at least now understand how it is supposed to work, mostly.
 
I'm curious about the bypass switch.  Do we have any idea where that is located, or activated?  On both of my cars that function is part of the vacuum switch itself.  Possibly it is the case on yours as well, and they simply drew it separately on the schematic?  or is it a separate component somewhere?
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring2.JPG)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2010, 05:11:01 AM
I think the Bypass Switch is located somewhere on the A/C plenum but I could be wrong.  If it was that, wouldn't it also affect the speed of the blower under A/C mode?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2010, 05:19:26 AM

Quote from: D Cluley
Scott, on your drawn diagram you show C4a connected in two places, and no C8.  I'm guessing this is just a typo, but wanted to veryify that.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ResistorWiring.jpg)
 
 
 
After a little more review of the supliment diagram, I at least now understand how it is supposed to work, mostly.
 
I'm curious about the bypass switch.  Do we have any idea where that is located, or activated?  On both of my cars that function is part of the vacuum switch itself.  Possibly it is the case on yours as well, and they simply drew it separately on the schematic?  or is it a separate component somewhere?
 

I have verified the C4A you have circled in my diagram is actually C8 on my car so it matches up with the digram.  I am curious about this area in the diagram where they show a C4A also going to that side of the right angle connector where the C8 is.  My harness only has the C8 wire.  Am I reading the diagram wrong?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 14, 2010, 07:14:23 AM
Quote from: rexus31
I think the Bypass Switch is located somewhere on the A/C plenum but I could be wrong.  If it was that, wouldn't it also affect the speed of the blower under A/C mode?


 
I would think so also.  Based on what we are looking at. . .So that's where the C8 is!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
This is a mess now.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 14, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: rexus31
 
 
 
The straight line connection between the C4A plug and the C8 plug is inside the resistor block, so you won't see it unless you are looking at the backside of that piece.  (the part that's inside the heater box.)
---------------------------------
It finally occurred to me to check the parts book, and yes the bypass switch is a separate piece that seems to be somewhere over by the blower itself.
 
 
My Dart has AC and on that car the fan runs faster in the AC or Vent settings than it does in Heat or Defrost.  (It's still low, med, high, but each of them is a little faster with the AC on)
 
My '65 (Non AC) runs the fan faster on Defrost and Max Heat than it does on Heat.
 
In order to have two speed ranges like that, there is an extra resistor for the slower one, that is bypassed in the faster one.  In both of my cars this is accomplished by extra switches that are part of the vacuum switch, but the '65 with AC uses that separate bypass switch.
 
---------------------------------
 
My assumption based on this is that the fan is supposed to run faster on the AC settings than Heat or Defrost. and that the bypass switch is controled either by vacuum from the vacuum switch, or mechanically by one of the dampers that is controlled by the vacuum switch.
 
----------------------------------
 
Scott, when you've experienced the blower problem has the engine been running or shut off?
 
With the blower set to low, does it sound like it changes speeds at all if you switch from Max AC, to AC, to Heat, to Defrost?  (both with the engine on and off)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2010, 06:52:31 PM

Quote from: D Cluley

Scott, when you've experienced the blower problem has the engine been running or shut off?
 

I have tried it with both the car running and off; same result.  I really believe this is an electrical issue.  Some time ago while trying to tackle this very issue, I tore the dash apart and swapped out the blower switch.  All speeds in all modes worked for about 4-5 cycles of the switch.  Then the heater stopped working.  I plugged in the old switch and the same thing happened.  It worked for a brief time then stopped.  I know for a fact it isn't the blower switch.  When I removed my original Blower Resistor, the coils on the back were discolored and I do recall smelling an "electrical" smell the first time I ran the heater after I installed it and had everything connected.  I thought it was just the newness of the restored unit burning off.  Obviously I was wrong.  I'm fairly certain I connected the electrical leads on the vacuum switch properly but you never know.  I suppose I could check that.  I'm pretty sure the vacuum hoses are connected properly as well.  When I turn the Heater Off I can hear the fresh air door close.  I guess I really don't need a Heater. After all, I live in Southern California.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 14, 2010, 09:20:44 PM
I agree that it sounds electrical.
 
My current thoughts:
 
1. Something that works briefly then stops, sounds like a connection that loosens up when it gets hot.
 
2. It is somewhere that dissables the higher speeds but leaves low working.
 
3. It is some part of the circuit that is used by Heat/Defrost, but not AC.
 
4.  The only thing that I can see that could change the circuit between the modes is the "bypass switch", so presumably that is only activated in one of the modes (probably AC)
 
--------------------
 
I'm still curious what controls the bypass switch, do you see anything in the AC supplement that discusses that?
 
--------------------
 
I'm working on a clearer version of the wiring diagram, and will post that later, that may help us all see what it's supposed to be doing.
 
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 15, 2010, 05:11:14 AM


Quote from: D Cluley
I agree that it sounds electrical.
 
My current thoughts:
 
1. Something that works briefly then stops, sounds like a connection that loosens up when it gets hot.
 
2. It is somewhere that dissables the higher speeds but leaves low working.
 
3. It is some part of the circuit that is used by Heat/Defrost, but not AC.
 
4.  The only thing that I can see that could change the circuit between the modes is the "bypass switch", so presumably that is only activated in one of the modes (probably AC)
 
--------------------
 
I'm still curious what controls the bypass switch, do you see anything in the AC supplement that discusses that?
 
--------------------
 
I'm working on a clearer version of the wiring diagram, and will post that later, that may help us all see what it's supposed to be doing.




(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c206/rexus31/Reference%20Pics/BlowerBypassSwitch.jpg)
rexus312010-07-15 10:18:57
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 05:57:02 AM
I just completely dismantled that 65 a  month ago.  I even pulled that actuator out.  and saved it.  I didn't have that bypass in there.  I know where you are talking about.  It's all the way to the right when the fresh air duct is. (???)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 15, 2010, 07:53:55 AM
I think there may have been a running change in the model year.  A friend of mine has 3 '65 300L's.  I asked him to bring me one of his blower motor resistors so I could swap mine out to see if that was my issue.  The first one he brought me was a different design resistor and a different part number.  The second one he brought me was the same as my resistor, same part number too.  Maybe they changed the design mid way through the model year.  Do you have access to your resistor?  Mine is p/n 2521153.  The first one my friend brought me was a 248 part number.  We thought that one would have been an earlier p/n but my car was built very early in the model year (Sept. '64) so you would think my car would have an earlier p/n.  Weird.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 10:47:01 AM
I have to go look at the car.  It's back in storage, 15 miles from here.  This one may have the switch.  I know the white one didn't as shown in the illustration.  I'll be screwed then.  That means the dash harness is different.  Ugh
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 15, 2010, 03:16:58 PM
PN 252 1241 - resistor bypass switch
 
From the picture there, it looks like when you select AC, the AC actuator moves the actuator rod with the kink in it, and that pushes the operating arm on the bypass switch.
 
(I'm starting to think that Rube Goldberg was on the payroll at Chrysler ;)  )
 
--------------------------------------------------
 
Ok, lets take a look at how it is all supposed to work.
 
Cleaned up version of the "official" wiring diagram
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_color_1.JPG)
 
Here is my "Unscrambled" version
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_a.JPG)
 
With the resistor bypass switch off (I'm still assuming that is AC modes, but haven't verifiyed it) and the blower switch on low.  Power goes through the vacuum switch, and through all 3 resistors to the blower.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_low_1.JPG)
 
Bypass off, Blower switch on Medium:  Power goes through resistor 1, through the blower switch (around resistor 2) through resistor 3 and to the blower
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_med_1.JPG)
 
Bypass off, Blower swtich on High:  Power goes through resistor 1, through the blower switch (around resistors 2 & 3) to the blower.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_hi_1.JPG)
 
Now, with the bypass switch ON, each of the 3 speed settings work the same, except that the power goes through the bypass switch avoiding resistor #1
 
Here is Bypass ON, Blower switch low:
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/ac_wiring_low_2.JPG)
 
 
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 15, 2010, 07:35:38 PM
So do you think the switch isn't turning "On" when the heater is selected?  Do you think it is a matter of adjusting the arm that toggles it?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 07:58:13 PM
That could be scott.  Should be easy enough to see
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 15, 2010, 09:04:59 PM
I don't think it's the switch itself.  On or off either way, you still should have 3 blower speeds. 
 
---------------------
 
I had a completely off the wall thought, but at least it's easy to check.
 
1. I still think the problem is something heating up, and loosing contact.
2. The reason the resistors are located there is for the airflow in the box to keep them cool.
3. Maybe the reason it works on the AC setting is because the airflow is cooler?
 
What happens if you put the AC on, put the blower on high or med and push the temp lever over to hot?
 
-------------------------
 
Ok, time to break out the multimeter:
 
Let's check the bypass switch first.
 
Pull the L shaped connecter loose (should be Dk Green C8 & Brown C9) and check the resistance between the two wires (check the plug, not the male prongs on the resistor block)
 
With the motor running (pretty sure we need vacuum for this test) check the resistance  at that plug trying each of the positions of the push button vacuum switch (off, AC, heat, etc)
 
My guess is that it will be pretty close to 0 ohms in the AC postions and no connection at all in the others, but I could be wrong.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2010, 05:23:48 AM

Quote from: D Cluley
I don't think it's the switch itself.  On or off either way, you still should have 3 blower speeds. 
 
---------------------
 
I had a completely off the wall thought, but at least it's easy to check.
 
1. I still think the problem is something heating up, and loosing contact.
2. The reason the resistors are located there is for the airflow in the box to keep them cool.
3. Maybe the reason it works on the AC setting is because the airflow is cooler?
 
What happens if you put the AC on, put the blower on high or med and push the temp lever over to hot?
 
-------------------------
 
Ok, time to break out the multimeter:
 
Let's check the bypass switch first.
 
Pull the L shaped connecter loose (should be Dk Green C8 & Brown C9) and check the resistance between the two wires (check the plug, not the male prongs on the resistor block)
 
With the motor running (pretty sure we need vacuum for this test) check the resistance  at that plug trying each of the positions of the push button vacuum switch (off, AC, heat, etc)
 






Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 10:15:24 AM
I agree Scott. . .   Looking at the drawing, the Bypass just seems to work on full speed, not three speeds as Dan thinks.
 
This is a flippen mess.  The only guy I knew that would know recently died.  Maybe that's why they took it out of the cars.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2010, 11:50:23 AM
I found this in the A Body section of my A/C FSM.  It's the same switch as the C Bodies.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c206/rexus31/Reference%20Pics/BlowerBypassSwitch-1.jpg)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 03:44:59 PM
But I thought you already had hig speed in AC.  Maybe I better go back and read the first post.
 
If the switch wasn't in there, you'd have 3 speeds on AC.  If I recall, it was reversed.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2010, 04:14:02 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
But I thought you already had hig speed in AC.  Maybe I better go back and read the first post.
 

I have all 3 speeds in A/C mode and only Low in Heat mode.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 16, 2010, 04:48:11 PM
Steve, take another look at the drawings I made.
 
The blower switch gives you 3 speeds by using resistors 2 & 3  (low uses both, med uses only 3, high bypasses both of them)
 
The bypass switch controls whether or not resistor 1 is included.
 
Think of it like a 4x4 with a 3 speed transmission and hi and low in the transfer case.
 
I'm guessing because of the extra duct work, they wanted more air flow in the AC mode.  It's accomplished differently, but my '74 Dart does exactly the same thing.
 
 
-------------------------------------
 
Scott,  I took some pictures to show how to test stuff, and will be doing another post later tonight.
 
 
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2010, 04:55:25 PM

Quote from: D Cluley
 

Thanks Dan.  I look forward to it.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: rexus31
[color=#ffffff Apple-style-span="Apple-style-span"]The Blower Motor will not blow above Low when the Heater or Defroster is selected. Max Cool and Fr Cool both blow at all speeds. I know it is not the Blower Motor Switch because if it was faulty the speeds wouldn't vary regardless of what was selected. I swapped out the Blower Motor Resistor today with a known working unit and the problem still exists. I installed a new A/C and Heater Switch before I restored the car and it worked fine. Does anybody have an idea what it could be? [/color]
 
I don't think that switch is the issue Scott
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 05:07:12 PM
I'me very Analog Dan.  I have to see one, then I am sure I can figure it out.  But I've only had time to glance the drawings.   I have 6 weeks worth of work to do in 2 1/2.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2010, 06:13:36 PM
The resistor bypass switch or the blower motor switch?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 08:29:28 PM
The Bypass.  It doesn't add up.  Based on what I was reading in my manual, which is a original 65 Chrysler FSM, the blower should work in all speeds without the bypass.  Try over riding it.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 16, 2010, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
I'me very Analog Dan.  I have to see one, then I am sure I can figure it out.  But I've only had time to glance the drawings.   I have 6 weeks worth of work to do in 2 1/2.
 
I understand that.  My thing is drawing,  If I can figure it out enough to redraw it my way, then I've got it.
 
and I'll see your "6 weeks of work", and raise you a "we just found out Jen has to move out of her apartment into the other building in the next 2 weeks."(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 17, 2010, 01:01:53 AM
Scott, here is the  specific instructions for checking to see if & how the bypass switch is operating.  


 
Set your meter to "Ohms" it will probably have several resistance ranges, but it shouldn't matter which one you use for this.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/res_no_load_1.JPG)
 
With the probes not touching, take note of what kind of reading you get.  It may indicate 0.L  (no load) like mine, or something else, but if you see that again when checking, it will mean the switch is open, so there's no continuity between the two wires.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/res_no_load_2.JPG)
 
With the probes touching, it should read zero.  When the switch closes, this should be the reading you get.  (depending on the age/condition of the switch, wires, and plugs there may be a tiny bit of resisitance, so you may see a number a little bigger than zero.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/res_no_res.JPG)
 
Pull the plastic L shaped plug off the resistor block, and insert one of the probes into each of the two female connectors.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/22/L_plug_res.JPG)
 
Once that is hooked up, with the engine running, try each of the push buttons (including OFF) and let us know what meter readings you see.  In each case, you'll want to wait a few seconds, to make sure the vacuum actuators have completely operated.
 
------------------------------------
 
When you have time, take a look at this thread I put together on wiring in general and meters, it might help to sort some of this out.
http://www.moparfins.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3601 (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3601)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 17, 2010, 05:02:50 AM
I will perform the test as outlined.  Thanks for the step by step Dan, it really helps.  Electrical isn't my strong suit but I'm getting a crash course with this car!  I agree with you guys.  I don't think the culprit is the by pass switch.  The A/C FSM states:

Then again, if the by-pass switch is still thinking it is in A/C mode and it is sending current telling the system to increase the speed of the blower but it is actually in Heater mode, it could overload the resistor.  Is this correct or am I making stuff up?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 17, 2010, 09:14:50 AM
I performed the tests in all speeds, in all modes with the car running and here are the results:












I'm not sure if this is normal or not.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 17, 2010, 06:32:05 PM
You should only see about an inch or two drop on the vacuum.  So those readings are pretty good.  However, 17 is on the low side of the scale.  At idle it should be more like 18 or 19.  It may be the new engine or the timing is off a tad.
 
I noticed that switch is on the fresh air door.  Might I suggest you try that resistor from the L and see what happens.  The wiring is the same buy no bypass.   Bypassing the bypass was a good call.  We narrowed it down.
 
Just out of curiosity, what is the production date on your car?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 17, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
The build date of my car is Sept. '64.  What exactly did we narrow down?  I'm confused.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 17, 2010, 09:10:54 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
You should only see about an inch or two drop on the vacuum.  So those readings are pretty good.  However, 17 is on the low side of the scale.  At idle it should be more like 18 or 19.  It may be the new engine or the timing is off a tad.

I've got a little bigger cam in it so maybe that's it.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 18, 2010, 02:07:42 AM
Sorry, not a lot of time this morning, and I need to think some more on this.
 
1.  We have determined that the bypass switch is working correctly.
 
2.  Did you plug the L shaped connector back on, and if so, did the problem return?
 
3.  On mine, when the wiring is plugged into the resistor block, there is a small gap where you can see the base of the male connectors.  Is yours like that as well?  (this allows the meter probes to make contact while everything is still hooked up)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 18, 2010, 05:42:00 AM
I'm sure glad you guys know what you are talking about because I am lost.  How hard should the heater blow?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 18, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
Well guys, it's working now.  I plugged the leads from the by-pass switch back into the resistor and it works.  My cousin was here today charging the A/C and he pointed something out I was completely missing.  THE HEATER DOESN'T BLOW OUT OF THE DASH VENTS!!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  This whole time it was probably working and I just assumed it should blow out the dash vents like a new car.  I really feel like a retard.  Sorry to have put you guys through the ringer on this one.  The heat is blowing...out of the floor where it should.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 18, 2010, 05:48:05 PM
Not the first time we've been through this.  But you know what?  We all learned somethig and that's what this place is all about.  Even if we did have educated guesses.  While there was some guessing, they were educated.  Unlike some other forums who just guess.
 
Good Job to all
 
Now.  Did you get the ducts working?
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Scott on July 18, 2010, 07:05:49 PM
I believe everything is working as it should.  Again, sorry for wasting everyone's time.  Thanks for helping out.  Next time I'll be sure to know what I'm talking about.
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Dan Cluley on July 18, 2010, 10:59:17 PM
What waste?
 
You learned something
I learned something
Heck, even Steve probably learned something.  ;)
 
 
 
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 19, 2010, 06:24:27 AM
Quote from: rexus31
I believe everything is working as it should.  Again, sorry for wasting everyone's time.  Thanks for helping out.  Next time I'll be sure to know what I'm talking about.


 
POST JUMPER!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Heater / Defroster Issue - 1965 300 w/ Factory Air
Post by: Steve on July 19, 2010, 06:26:21 AM
Quote from: D Cluley
What waste?
 
You learned something
I learned something
Heck, even Steve probably learned something.  ;)
 


 
Yes I did Dan.  I have all this to look forward too.  It may be the 62 has this set up in it.  I don't know until I get into the car