Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Bob Schaefer on June 16, 2010, 06:25:01 AM

Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on June 16, 2010, 06:25:01 AM
Way back when I had my first '69 Dodge Wagon, I had the fun experience of stripping my timing gear while the car was running (parked, fortunately). That's when I learned that the stock gears had some nylon coating on them, which is what came out in my oil...
So, I purchaced a timing set, with gears and a chain at the local parts store. I got this decent looking set of gears that were solid, with a single row of thck teeth. What I see on most of on the Summit Racing site look like the larger gear has 2 sets of narrow teeth, instead of 1 set of thick, heavy duty teeth.
What I am doing now, is getting together some items, so that I can do some work on the wagon, which I would rather do proactively, instead of how I had to do it the first time. These include, but may not be limited to, timing set, water pump, and all the necessary gaskets and seals, and so on...
The main question is... What is the best timing set to use for normal driving, but with the occasional lack of ability to keep my foot out of it?
 It will remain primarily stock, so I don't know if I need a Double Roller set, or what I should get. I have the repair manual for the car, so I have access to all the torque specs, and I do have help available if needed. Again, I have done this successfully before, but I don't have the formal education to know why to select one product over another, and it was over 25 years ago.... Man, am I getting old.
Also, based on all that I need to pull to get this done, is there any use to replacing lifters, push rods, etc? Other items in the general vicinity, top end wise?
Thank you,
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 16, 2010, 07:33:44 AM
All you need as far as just the timing set is concerened: 
Commando12010-06-16 12:34:50
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Bob Schaefer on June 16, 2010, 09:14:13 AM
That looks very much like the one I got for the previous car, and exactly like what I was hoping to get. In fact, I did look that  up on Rock Auto, but I wanted to make sure I was getting the right thing.
So thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Steve on June 16, 2010, 10:11:55 AM
Double roller is always the best.  It goes in the same way, nothing special.  And it will fit with no problems.  The double roller lowers the risk of chain stretching.  The roller chain reduces friction which also causes stretching.  When they say roller, they aren't refering to the cam.  Thye are just talking about the chain.
I reccommend the double roller chain and gear set. 
The rumor was the plastic gear was to reduce noise.  This is incorrect.  It was to reduce friction.
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Rich on June 16, 2010, 12:14:53 PM
Cloyes True Roller, part number 91104 :  takes a long time before it stretches, unlike the regular chain-gear set, much quieter, and they don't cost an arm and a leg (about $60).


Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 16, 2010, 12:22:56 PM
Bottom line: buy the best Cloyes in your budget
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Steve on June 16, 2010, 02:20:02 PM
For a street machine, even the Slummit Racing one is OK
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Guests on June 16, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
ANY double roller timing chain is better than a stock one, and most of the time they are even less expensive than a stock one, so yeah, a well spent $30 or so, sometimes even less.
Are you going to do a backyard rebuild or just the front end of the engine? I would suggest, drop the oil pan and clean out that oil pick-up screen, new oil pump. Being a 383, it is outside the engine so you can change it at any time, the high volume (which is a stock Hemi pump volumetrically and physically) is always a good thing, never enough oil pumped through an engine, and if you do a high volume pump, remember, the pump is taller so all the bolts need to be that much longer when replacing.
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Rich on June 16, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
If you go with the high volume pump, be sure to add an extra quart of oil (six quarts when you change oil/filter) don't worry about it foaming- too much oil stays up in the top of these engines anyway.

Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Guests on June 17, 2010, 09:16:06 PM
That's a new one. Too much oil can be a problem with the crankshaft spinning on it. Change the pump and filter, start the engine, top it off. Once the initial extra volume of the pump itself is taken care of, it will move a larger volume, sure, but it is only a couple ounces more oil she will displace. Only time I had cold weather and oil have the pressure drop from over-revving was when I ran 50W way back in 1979 for a trip, but that was when 50W racing oil was a cool thing to use. 30W never had that problem.
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Rich on June 17, 2010, 09:59:26 PM
The little 4 quart factory pan is just not enough oil to run a high volume pump -- myself and lots of others have been using 6 quarts in the big blocks for years with no problems (I started doing it in 1970 in police pursuit engines). If you have an oil pressure gauge in your car watch what happens when you go around a sharp corner or start/stop quickly, the pressure drops to dangerous levels as the oil pickup becomes uncovered. The added quart is just enough to keep the pickup in oil all the time and the pressure up where it belongs -- many a big block Mopar has spun a bearing and died due to this lack of sufficient oil.

Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2010, 03:15:47 AM
Actually Ed. the BB's all tend to be oil starved.  think about it.  that extra quart, 1/2 is up in the top of the motor.  There's allot of slurping going on in there.
Been adding a quart for years.
Mind you it is more prevelent on old motors.  Ones that have been rebuilt take a long time to start needing that extra.  Must be the buildups holding more oil
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Rich on June 18, 2010, 06:28:46 AM
 A windage tray will keep that extra quart off the crank and help keep it from sloshing around too. Every C body owner should put adding a baffled oil pan (or adding baffles to your existing pan) and windage tray on their "to do" list.  Almost all of the C bodies came without either, and adding these two items will go a long way in improving your engines longevity.

Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Guests on June 18, 2010, 09:10:17 PM
OK, I digress a little bit, my Charger pans have six quarts to begin with, so yes, it probably is a good idea overall. A windage tray is cheap, easy to install, and two oil pan gaskets isn't that big a deal, either (kind of funny for the big blocks, but still worth the effort, I agree).
Title: Timing Set...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on June 19, 2010, 10:10:41 AM
I run Cloyes in the Barge's 440 and the Boab's 383 has Cloyes as well.