MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Stan Paralikis on May 29, 2010, 02:38:28 AM

Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 29, 2010, 02:38:28 AM
I have a chance to pick up for chump change a Borg Warner T10 4 speed (aka a Muncie M-20, 21).  We know tt is absolutely without a doubt that. 
Here's the problem:
10 spline input, 26 spline out, Mopar  mount!!!!
AS they say in Peoria: WTF is up with that?????
I know Ma used a Borg Warner as a 1963 only 4 speed but the input spline and lack of a tranny mount has got me very confused. Also, the 63 mopar B/W used a Ball & trunion.   Every ID chart I can find does not show this combo.
 
(http://i.ebayimg.com/13/!BuL0OCw!2k~$%28KGrHqIOKnEEvyFr%29OUwBL+T!J!J8!~~_12.JPG)
Commando12010-05-29 08:12:20
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Steve on May 29, 2010, 07:01:09 AM
Fleet maybe with a spec?
 
It would have to be a ball and trunion if it were a car, but not sure on the trucks.  Maybe that's a truck trans.  They did some different mounting on the bell housings and let the trans hang as I recall.  See if you can fine information on a 300 series truck of that era.  I forget what my 58 had.  That was a three speed.
 
POLARACO2010-05-29 12:04:43
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 29, 2010, 08:11:30 AM
What about the splines on the main shaft?

Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Steve on May 29, 2010, 02:30:57 PM
What about them?
 
CBarge2010-05-29 23:18:40
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 30, 2010, 02:21:22 AM
This B/W is a 10 spline input.  Can I swap the mainshaft with a Chrysler one?
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Steve on May 30, 2010, 06:31:38 AM
Why not just match a disc to it
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 30, 2010, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Why not just match a disc to it
Once again, as I have said to you over the years:
 
WTH are you talking about?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
What ^&%$ "disc" to "what" ?
 
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Steve on May 30, 2010, 04:26:14 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)



The clutch disk is a different spline.  You said 10 and the slip yoke is 26.




 
 
Hellooooo   Anybody in there?

Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Guests on May 30, 2010, 08:00:39 PM
Quote from: Commando1
This B/W is a 10 spline input.  Can I swap the mainshaft with a Chrysler one?

To do this you would be best to check the specs of both shafts and compare, length, spline lengths, bearing size, all these specs can be found if you look around, mostly because there were changes over the years and they do list the different dimensions quite often. Otherwise, yeah, the clutch disc itself, but you still need to verify the length of the shaft sticking out to make sure the bellhousing is or is not as deep as something like Ford, GM BOP, etc. Would really hate sticking it in there and find out you only have a quarter of an inch sticking into the pilot bearing at the end of the crank or something like that, right?
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 31, 2010, 02:51:22 AM
Quote from: dana44
To do this you would be best to ...
To you, sir: Thank you.
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 31, 2010, 02:53:33 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: dana44
To do this you would be best to ...


To you, sir: Thank you.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
Quote from: POLARACO




Hellooooo   Anybody in there?
And to you: (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Commando12010-05-31 07:54:19
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Steve on May 31, 2010, 06:31:27 AM
Smart Ass (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Snotty on June 01, 2010, 09:20:01 AM
By looking at the linkage mount, that trans has been altered to fit another car.  That's probably why you can't find any references to it.
 
Trucks in the early to mid-60's used B&T units, but they never used BW T-10s, so this is not from a truck.
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 01, 2010, 12:06:06 PM
Yup.  I knew the Mack intercity cabovers had 413's.  A lot of other manufacturerrs, too. 
Although, not T10's, there's got to be  a gazillion "Mopar BB " to  "gawd knows how many super heavy duty transmissions" bellhousings floating around. 
Jeeeze, if I could corner the market in that!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)
Commando12010-06-01 17:18:13
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on June 02, 2010, 05:51:11 AM
I think it's for an AMC. I had one that came out of a 71 Hornet S/C 360 that I believe had a 10 spline input shaft.

Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 02, 2010, 08:04:18 AM
Sonds very reasonable.
http://www.theamcforum.com/forum/amc-4-speed_topic13810.html (http://www.theamcforum.com/forum/amc-4-speed_topic13810.html)
Commando12010-06-03 06:49:30
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Snotty on June 02, 2010, 10:11:36 AM
Sorry, but you're both wrong.  The linkage mount on an AMC T-10 is close to the transmission body, not on the rear of the tail shaft.  I just spent 4 years putting an AMC together.  Don't make me send pictures to prove it.
 
T-10s were used by Ford, AMC, Chevy, and other GM products.  You can't use a GM specific T-10 in an AMC because of where the linkage mount is - on the end of the tail shaft.  To do so you would need to cut a new hole in your trans tunnel.  That is why I could not use the aluminum Super T-10 I originally purchased - not to mention the wrong bolt pattern on the trans body itself. 
 
Also, the mounts do not have aluminum plates on them (or whatever that crap is on the end of that trans).  They have three mounting holes and a "triangle" support.
 
Finally, AMC-specific T-10s have AM stamped on the body.  Do you have pictures showing that?
 
I did not realize this was to be some sort of test: I thought you were asking serious queries as to what this transmission fits?
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 02, 2010, 12:10:51 PM
Snotty, I was serious.  I could have pick that up for chump change.  But, I wasn't buying it without knowing it's application  w/o reaearching further. 
So asked the Best & the Brightest.  Where?  HERE!  Not at Moparts.  Not at "we_know_more_than_anybody_concerning_Mopars.com.
I came here.
Commando12010-06-03 06:47:58
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on June 02, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
Snotty, I believe the shifter pad location depended on the body style kinda like a Mopar. I'm sure the T-10 I had out of the Hornet had the shifter pad on the rear like that. I definitely remember the coarse 10 spline input too. 

Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Snotty on June 03, 2010, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Snotty, I was serious.  I could have pick that up for chump change.  But, I wasn't buying it without knowing it's application  w/o reaearching further. 
So asked the Best & the Brightest.  Where?  HERE!  Not at Moparts.  Not at "we_know_more_than_anybody_concerning_Mopars.com.
I came here.






 
Fair enough.  With the obvious fabricating on the end of the tailshaft, I would recommend avoiding this particular trans.
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Snotty on June 03, 2010, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: 2C1J
Snotty, I believe the shifter pad location depended on the body style kinda like a Mopar. I'm sure the T-10 I had out of the Hornet had the shifter pad on the rear like that. I definitely remember the coarse 10 spline input too. 



 
I know Mopar had two different mounting locations on some if the A833s, but that was not the case with AMC.  All T-10s used for AMC were identical except for the input shaft bearing housing.  That was changed in 1970.  The body and tail shaft remained the same.
 
I learned this when we tried to use a '71-later bellhousing on our '68 AMC T-10. 
 
I am including a picture of our T-10 from when it was out last month.  Notice the differences in this transmission and the one in Stan's picture.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/8/fins_1.JPG)
See the linkage mounting point, as well as the speedo-cable housing.  The latter is not on that other transmission at all.  It is in the same location on all BW Transmissions used by AMC.  This was why we did not need to change the cable when we switched from a T-14 to the T-10.
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Guests on June 03, 2010, 10:04:52 PM
Stan, you may not be able to use it in your car, but for an AMC, if the price is right, the T-10 is better than a M-21 or M-22 any day of the week for an AMC resale part (sometimes identification is the key to a good sale, right?).
Title: Weirdo transmission I.D.
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 04, 2010, 01:55:27 AM
There are guys out there that can make anything work with anything.
I'm not one of those guys.