Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Guests on May 01, 2010, 03:58:53 PM

Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 01, 2010, 03:58:53 PM
Well, moving the daughter in Phoenix, driving the PT from San Diego, turned off at Gila Bend, came to a stop, let out the clutch and she died. Only code was 0340, cam position sensor not identified by the computer, so today I changed it, and nothing, still the same thing. Dead in the water. Any ideas, even though most are into the older models, what else may be causing this problem? I think other codes would have shown if there was something else assocated with the problem, but this is literally the first problem other than a clutch slave cylinder that started leaking from day one. Heck, I just replaced the original battery Wednesday, not because it wasn't starting the car but because I wanted the security of the new battery for the trip.(
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 02, 2010, 03:55:50 AM
I am assuming that "I changed it", it refers to the sensor pickup. 
That being done, get out the BFH and beat on that 'puter and show it who's boss.
After that: 
Commando12010-05-02 08:58:41
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 02, 2010, 08:10:04 PM
Yeah, saw that, pretty straight forward, but it didn't do didly. Replaced the crank sensor, too, checked all the voltage and the wiring harness for possible damage, no good. There is a small hole in the end of the timing belt cover on top so you can see the cam sprockets, and they did not turn. Will be pulling the front of the engine off to replace the timing belt tomorrow, the cogs stripped on the bottom evidently, so when I loosened the top cover and checked the belt to see if it was actually broken, it is still tight, so that means the cams didn't go out of sync, but either way, valves do not touch and the engine is a non-interference engine, so the valves and pistons cannot touch (verified several years ago) so I should be OK after the belt is changed.
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2010, 07:25:34 AM
You didn't say it was turning over odd
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 03, 2010, 08:02:37 AM
Sorry, I figured you would have understood it would turn over, otherwise I would not have been able to get a code like this. Anyway, we had checked the cam sprockets for movement when it happened, but it was a short movement, which was kind of a sticking belt but still a spin. I won't do a belt in one of these cars unless it is out of the vehicle, and I am not pulling the engine, so I have a friend from Allpar that recommended a guy that could do it for me. Since I don't have any tools, good answer on my part, these belts in the cars are a real pain, did it once when I ported the head five years ago, but what upsets me more than anything else is the fact I only have 92,500miles on the Cruiser, belt is supposed to be good for at least 100,000miles. No, she spun and spun, cleared the codes by battery disconnect, same thing. The timing cover has a little access hole you can see the two cam sprockets and I said, look at them to see if they are moving. A small jerk and then nothing, so the belt remained in place, cogs evidently stripped at the crank. Guy should be here within the hour, a Mopar mobile mechanic, will go from there.
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2010, 08:52:09 AM
You're squabbling over 8,000 miles? 
Last I knew, they were good for 60,000 miles.  But I haven't had a car with a timing belt in 20  years.  They've all been chains or traded in before the mileage was up.  Momma is the one who drives such things.  She gets a new car every 3 years, but given the warranty we have on the Charger, she's got her last car.  We have a bumper to bumper lifetime warranty.  Drivetrain was standard and we added the supper dupper deluxe warranty.  All I need to buy is wiper blades, brakes and tires.  Even the struts are covered.  And the contract says, if it can't be repaired, they will replace the car.
I'm finished with new cars and trucks.  I keep the 08 Diesel and then not trapped into all those diesel emmissions
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 03, 2010, 11:30:37 AM
It' been proven that the cheapest  way over the longhaul is to buy an ultra low mileage, one year old car from a fleet.  The fleet took the 50% deprciation on the chin.  Now you buy it at a firesale priceand you keep it forever and a day just doing what's needed to keep it safe & reliable.  At the end of it's life where there's no fixing it any more, yank the plate and walk away.  And wave to the 24 year old flying by in his 84 month payment, $45,000, new Challenger.
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: firedome on May 03, 2010, 03:50:43 PM

Ya, agree, but I never saw a 1 yr old fleet car selling for 50% or ACV,
it's more like 20% at best. 50% is more like 3- 4 or more yrs old. You can go
to rental car fleet auction sales, Mannheim is the biggie here in the
NE, but you have to be a dealer. I've been to a few... real eye
openers. IMO the cheapest way to drive  is a 5 yr old lo mile car
at 50-60% off, or a 10+ yr old car from some granny with 40k mi for
$1200-1500,  drive it for 3-5 yrs. ... I've gone that route many a
time. Choice of car is the key there. Used to be C-body Mopars in the
70/80s, Gran Fury with 40k etc,  but since they got too old and hard to find,  Volvo
240s have done well for us, but now they also are getting too old.
So  last week the wife goes to the Nissan dealer and buys an 05
XTerra with 40k, sold there new with records. It was
almost 60% off new retail , good warranty, and looks like new. Hope it
lasts. My prior experience with Japanese vehicles says it likely will.

firedome2010-05-03 21:10:13
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 03, 2010, 05:17:12 PM
Guy's still working on it, the usual water pump, tensioner and belt. The belt stripped the cogs at the crank, and after checking the belt, the rest of them were ready to pull loose. If I had all my tools, would have done it myself, but being 350 miles from home, it is actually cheaper to have someone else fiddle with it, go from there. Yeah, I will quibble about the 8,000miles because I was keeping an eye on it, so it was not an expected expense at this point, let alone the inconvenience of it happening it of all places Gila Bend, which is in the middle of nowhere. I knew it was time to call a friend in Phoenix when asking a guy if he had a computer so I could verify a computer code and the guy says his computers wouldn't work because they were for eighteen wheelers, I knew it was time to leave.
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Tom Dawson on May 03, 2010, 06:14:42 PM
If the timing belt went, I hope you did not bend any valves, these are interference motors and the only way is to put a belt on and pray for the best.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 04, 2010, 08:30:49 PM
I can both attest and have personally verified the 2.4 is NOT an interference engine. The 2.0 is, 2.4 is not.
Got her back together and she is just fine. Turned out the belt had actually stripped all the cogs at the crank and all the other cogs were being held on about half. I did, after about an hour of driving, come up with a lean code of sorts, definitely not a single cylinder, she just runs and idles way too smoothly and definitely has enough power to hold her own all along and through the hills, so it isn't a dead cylinder. I may have gotten a shift of junk in the fuel line from jacking her aournd and all that, or a vacuum line I couldn't find is loose, something like that.
Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Tom Dawson on May 05, 2010, 12:27:19 PM
You got lucky not bending any valves, when I was a Chrysler Service advisor, had a PT come in and the water pump let loose from a stop and it did bend all the valves.

Title: Dead in the water
Post by: Guests on May 05, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
When I ported the head on her five years ago, I had been told the head was a non-interference engine, so I did some checks, like rotating the cams and opening both valves at the same time to check overlap clearance and stuff, then on the enigne itself, to see what would happen rotating a cam with number one at TDC and had absolutely no issues.
I would imagine the valves bending was an oddity, not sure how it could happen unless the cams were larger than stock.
I did get this last code for the intermittent misfire to clear itself. After hindsight took place to try to determine the reason why it would pop in the first place, I figure the computer went a little haywire after cranking several attempts to get her started, and even though I had actually cleared all the codes, there were three or four times after that which I cranked the engine after checking something, so possibly a rich condition had set itself into the computer, then, after getting her running and the hour drive, a stop, and five mintues after the twenty minute stop, it popped, the computer probably going through changes to get her right, but not working since I was cruising at around 3200-3400rpm. She calmed down today, after driving an extra distance through town, low rpm, several stop light stops, so the check engine light went off, will see how she does the next couple days. In hindsight, yeah, the battery should have been disconnected to allow the computer time to reset to default and adjust from there. She simply runs too smooth, much smoother than lately, and the power is still there, maybe even a little better than before on the hills and such, to indicate the miss was very intermittent at speed, so it had to be the settings and corrections, or, an injector got a piece of something in it and she was sputtering occasionally, but not at idle, but she is good to go now.