MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Stan Paralikis on April 04, 2010, 04:41:36 AM

Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 04, 2010, 04:41:36 AM
Ok.  440-WOB II is running like a raped aped.  Pulls strong from idle to redline.  No stumble, bogging, or farting.  Mid range torque is super.  Right where I wanted it.  I'm super-duper happy with the engine.
 
One last issue I want to address:  Low idle is rough.  I suspect is mostly due to the my choice of cam because I don't have much vacuum at idle.  Cam manufacturer said as much.
 
I am wondering about one last option to tackle.  Crankcase pressurization.  There is zero smog stuff on the motor.  Not even a PCV valve.  Each valve cover has a breather cap.  What do you think?  Run a tube from one bank back to the air cleaner?
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Butch Houghton on April 04, 2010, 05:04:52 AM

You need a PCV also.   Breather in one side & PCV in the other.   You get correct flow that way for drawing the crankcase fumes out.

PCV to carb base & the breather to the aircleaner is fiine,

I forget, what were your cam specs?   Probably is just the cam.

Butch

HemiFury2010-04-04 10:06:24
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 04, 2010, 06:20:46 AM
OK.  That's why I asked.  Why would not using them cause a rough idle? 
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2010, 07:44:09 AM
Cause
 
It's taking the pressure out of the crankcase and burning the unburned gasses which enhance the idle combustion.
 
Sound good to me anyway (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 04, 2010, 09:07:46 AM
Hmmmmm...  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/thinking.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Ken on April 04, 2010, 06:53:16 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif)What der Benevolent Dictator sez.  Hook up a PCV system.

Title: Rough idle
Post by: Guests on April 04, 2010, 07:24:31 PM
Quite truthfully, surprised she idles good without the PCV setup, unless the carb butterflies themselves are opened greater to compensate for it, to which the carb usually ends up drinking gas because the butterflies are opened above the idle circuit and starts running on primary fuel circuit. This is where the little weight plug inside the PCV valve comes into play, so if idle drops the vavuum plugs the extra air coming in from the PCV and sucks a little more gas, and when it gets too high, it sucks the weight up and slows down the air coming in, so it does a balancing act of sucking internal vapors safely.
Breather in one valve cover up to either the side or bottom of the air cleaner with an elbow to allow fumes to float up and liquified oil to drain down the hose, and PCV in the other, but for both of them, if not stock, make sure there is a splash shield across the insides of the holes so regular splash doesn't transfer into the intake manifold or air cleaner in volume.
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 05, 2010, 06:12:13 AM
Where is the best place to run the PCV tube from the cover?
The carb or the intake mani?
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2010, 06:21:06 AM
There should be a nipple on the carb that will accept 3/8 hose.  Unless you have one of those. . .
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 05, 2010, 06:23:22 AM
a PCV is not supposed to hook up to the driver.......

Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 05, 2010, 07:31:37 AM
Done.  BIG difference!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/breather.JPG)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/pcv.JPG)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2010, 07:33:51 AM
You doubted us?  Shame (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 05, 2010, 08:23:40 AM
Not for a second.  That's why I asked The Best & the Brightest.
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2010, 08:31:38 AM
I won't take any credit for either of those catagories.  Not with Ed around.  Damned swabbie make me look like a mental midget (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 05, 2010, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
  Damned swabbie make me look like a mental midget
He usually loses me after the first sentence... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2010, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
  Damned swabbie make me look like a mental midget
He usually loses me after the first sentence... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


 
That long huh?
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 05, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
Shaddup you....
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 05, 2010, 04:21:40 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Not with Ed around.  Damned swabbie make me look like a mental midget (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Funny, Stan told me HE did that, not Ed  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)

Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2010, 05:12:56 PM
[/QUOTE]

You got this part right (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)


To quote another member. .
 
 
Shadapp you!
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 06, 2010, 03:04:25 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)

 
 Looky, looky at what I found.  Now it makes sense!
 
Filtered air travels from the air filter to the breather cap.  I thought it was the other way around. 
 
(http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/8/B/41921072.gif)
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 06, 2010, 04:34:28 AM


on an unsilenced air cleaner like my 69 RR, the air going to the breather wasn't filtered....there is a large gap where air rushes in to go to the breather pipe(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)

The breather itself was a filter of sorts....if ya call a brillo pad a good filter medium(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)
The 73 Imperial had a better idea....a real filter pad inside a disposable breather

(http://partimages2.genpt.com/PartImages/724229.jpg)

stitcherbob2010-04-06 09:38:22
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Guests on April 06, 2010, 08:53:48 PM
[/QUOTE]

The "brillo pad" is more like a scrubber to catch vapors and turn it into a liquid and then drip back down into the engine, otherwise the air filter would look like a soggy K&N filter. It is similar to a donkey boiler, where sea water is boiled and a vacuum is used to reduce the atmospheric pressure to make the salt water boil at temps around 155-170degrees, causing high evaporation, which then rises and collects on these brillo pads, drip into rails, and making distilled water quickly.
 
Even though the picture does show the arrow going from the air cleaner to the valve cover, it actually pulsates because of the pistons going up and down, and pressure from the rings doing slight leaking, and past the valve guides the same way.
Title: Rough idle
Post by: attkrlufy on April 10, 2010, 06:09:35 AM

 
Filtered air travels from the air filter to the breather cap.  I thought it was the other way around. 
 
[/QUOTE]

Makes sense - except for the "filtered" part.  The port for the tube to the oil breather is outside the air intake's filter.  Some of the air getting drawn into the breather might go through the filter (maybe half), but I reckon just as much will go around it and be unfiltered.

...so 50% = 100% ??  Is that Chrysler's take on "new math"?

Title: Rough idle
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 10, 2010, 07:16:14 AM
My take on the whole thing is it is to provide a balanced closed system rather than to filter air.
Title: Rough idle
Post by: Steve on April 10, 2010, 03:01:00 PM
I agree with Dom. . .
 
For severe atmospheres it should be filtered.  You's be sucking all that abrasive crap into the engine