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Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Rob Molloy on March 23, 2010, 07:45:17 AM

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 23, 2010, 07:45:17 AM
Ok, so I'm starting to get stuff back. The cylinders were tapered, so they have been bored 20 over. Now my question, I'm looking for new pistons. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which pistons I should get? The new bore is 4.050, and all I can find are Ford, but nothing close to the 3.75 stroke. HELP!!! LOL!
 
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 23, 2010, 08:05:49 AM
Not many companies out there that supplies 383 pistons.
Keith Black (owned by Silvolite) and Sealed Power/Speed Pro (owned by Federal Mogul)are the only two.
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/automotive_catalog.pdf (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/automotive_catalog.pdf)
 
http://www.federalmogul.com/en/AftermarketSolutions/EMEA/EngineSolutions/Products/Pistons/SealedPowerPistons/Powerforged/ (http://www.federalmogul.com/en/AftermarketSolutions/EMEA/EngineSolutions/Products/Pistons/SealedPowerPistons/Powerforged/)
 
 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 23, 2010, 09:37:23 AM
And if they don't have anything, then Egge is pretty good at having things like this.
 
http://www.egge.com/contact.shtml (http://www.egge.com/contact.shtml)
 
To figure out if you can get any other "off the shelf" piston from another engine, there are a couple items which need to be the same or measured, or a way to fix them. The bore size is of course important, but you also need the piston wristpin diameter, and the correct piston wristpin to deck height. The deck height should be 10.725, stroke of 3.75, and rod of 6.768. The piston to deck height is then the height of the block deck, minus half the stroke and length of the rod. The remaining distance is the piston to deck height of 2.082, a height of 2.06 would more than work, so you now need to find a piston with a deck height of 2.06-2.08, assuming the wrist pins are the same size as the Mopar rod. The good thing is, if the wrist pin is smaller, the rods can be bushed to fix this easy enough, but, if (a real rare possibility) the piston pin is larger than the Mopar rod, the piston end is beefy enough to be resized. Basically it isn't a major issue, and not that expensive either way.
 
Hope this helps 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on March 23, 2010, 11:28:37 AM
I know Steve does not like them but Kanter has them as well.
 
http://www.kanter.com/ (http://www.kanter.com/)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 23, 2010, 12:16:06 PM
Are you messin with my head when you said  383 RB block?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 23, 2010, 01:12:32 PM
Tis true, 383 RB engine
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: firedome on March 23, 2010, 01:20:04 PM
RB 383 was one or 2 yr only IIRC

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 23, 2010, 01:23:06 PM
Just checkin...
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 23, 2010, 02:03:51 PM
I get the same reaction from the shops that I deal with.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 23, 2010, 03:20:20 PM

Quote from: Snotty
I know Steve does not like them but Kanter has them as well.
 


I can gare-un-tee you that Fred buys them from Egge......we've had issues with Egge pistons in the past. Try Jahns for the weird sizes....our Egge ones grew .010" when hot and hit the head on a Pierce Arrow we did years ago....Jahns fixed that problem

I use Speed Pro Forged but not sure if they have RB 383's.......are the dimensions (bore size and wrist pin height the same for 361 maybe?

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on March 24, 2010, 12:29:33 PM
I did not notice the RB.  If I were home I could tell you the diameter of the 383 RB.
 
Yes, Stan, the first 2 years of the 383 it was an RB.  In '61 it was detroked to a B, but was given larger pistins.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 24, 2010, 01:14:47 PM
Quote from: Snotty
I did not notice the RB.  If I were home I could tell you the diameter of the 383 RB.
 
Oh. I KNEW there was  a 383 RB.  Just never heard of anyone actually having one, let alone rebuild one.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 24, 2010, 04:01:43 PM
The RB 383 has nothing to do with the B block engines, it was the forerunner to the 440, using the 3.75 stroke and 10.725 deck height, so no, 4.125 pistons out of the 361, which only has a deck height ot 9.98, and although some parts with some machining can swap the crank to the shorter deck, the 3.375 stroke (350/361/383/400 stroke)doesn't work well in the RB block.
 
I simply guessed correctly based on the 4.050 bore size, vice the 4.270 (we are talking .020 overbore here), of the two 383 piston sizes. Any of the larger companies can make a custom piston for a price........
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: firedome on March 24, 2010, 04:32:40 PM
Whadda ya mean it's nothing to do with B blocks, it's a B block wedge head engine, and was introduced in 1959 to increase torque
from the 350/361 of 1958. The block casting was raised, and it was only
available in Chrysler and DeSoto in 2 bbl form for '59 and '60. 
It had the 361 bore of 4.12, with the  3.75 stroke of the
413.  2 years only. See pages 50-51 of Don Taylors "Big Block Mopar Engines".


firedome2010-03-24 20:35:26
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on March 24, 2010, 05:00:16 PM
According to my '63 Chilton's book, the '59-'60 383 had a bore of 4 1/32 and a stroke of 3 3/4 (3.75 as Firedome said).  From what I cna see no other motor had that bore.
 
350: 4 1/16
361: 4 1/8
383 B: 4 1/4
413: 4 3/16
 
I know the 400, 426, and 440 had larger pistons - 400 being the largest of course!  So, given these measurements, you are going to need to get 383 RB specific pistons or bore the motor to take larger ones.
 
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: firedome on March 24, 2010, 05:04:59 PM
You can get pistons from Egge.

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 28, 2010, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Snotty
According to my '63 Chilton's book, the '59-'60 383 had a bore of 4 1/32 and a stroke of 3 3/4 (3.75 as Firedome said).  From what I cna see no other motor had that bore.
 
350: 4 1/16
361: 4 1/8
383 B: 4 1/4
413: 4 3/16
 
I know the 400, 426, and 440 had larger pistons - 400 being the largest of course!  So, given these measurements, you are going to need to get 383 RB specific pistons or bore the motor to take larger ones.
 

340 pistons have a deck height of 1.85inch and a bore of 4.040 stock, deck height for a 383 RB block is 2.08ish, so here is the major question with the RB. What is the deck to piston top at top dead center to determine how close this would be for starters and go from there.
 
http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html (http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html)
 
Now calculate it out. 4.050 pistons (340 .010 overbore) flat top, no dimples, deck height of the piston is 1.85 vice 2.08 as stated (for zero deck height), CC of the heads is the 65-67cc variant closed chamber EXCELLENT head (even with 4 bolt vavle covers), stroke of 3.750, and a .040 head gasket thickness. Get floating piston pins and have the rods bushed to handle the 340 pistons and you have a 9:1 engine no problem (I thought it was going to be something closer to 8.5:1).
 
It ain't hard, just gotta get the pistons and bush the stock rods to have the floating piston pins (for better performance). 2.08 intakes and 1.65 exhaust are stock in the closed chamber heads, and if you want to talk to me with a pm, I will port the heads reasonably priced (I'm retired, I don't need the money, but love the thanks), so punch the numbers into the calculator link and check it out.
 
dana442010-03-29 00:42:18
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on March 29, 2010, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: dana44
340 pistons have a deck height of 1.85inch and a bore of 4.040 stock,
 
I didn't look at small block sizes; did not even occur to me. 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: firedome on March 29, 2010, 03:17:11 PM

If not staying with original, you'd be better off with a 340!
firedome2010-03-29 20:18:10
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 29, 2010, 08:59:07 PM
It is very doable, only minor surgery that isn't seen from the outside and would never be known, just bush the rods to fit the pins, simple surgery and flat top highest deck you can get on the piston and you are good to go. If the engine is apart or the heads are off, measure your deck to top of piston distance, the rest of the calculations work out just fine otherwise.
Ed
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 30, 2010, 03:55:17 AM
It just came to me that I once read that Diamond had pistons for the 383 RB.
http://www.diamondracing.net/ (http://www.diamondracing.net/)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2010, 05:40:31 AM
It was the prerunner to the 413, introduced in 1961 I believe.  Only in a 4 barrell, except in trucks
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 30, 2010, 02:34:41 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
It was the prerunner to the 413, introduced in 1961 I believe.  Only in a 4 barrell, except in trucks

361 is a B block, 413 is an RB block, keep up with the conversations Steve.
 
Yeah, a custom set of pistons can be made by several companies out there, just have to find them and deal with the cost involved, some are more expensive than others.
 
Still waiting to compare the piston top to deck top distance just to verify the 340 pistons .010 overbore (according to the 4.050 bore right now) to make a final determination of the distance down in the bore the 340 piston would be, see if it would be acceptable for compression (even though it looks good in the computer model I attached). I know some of the 318 engines had pistons that could be .080-.120 down in the holes without a problem, just want to verify this. Only other thing, as stated is the rod bushings for smaller wristpins.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2010, 02:58:29 PM
I was refering to the 383 RB, not the 361.  Yep!  I do know the diff.
 
B Block
350, 361, 383 (After 1960) , 400
 
RB
383 (2 Years) 413, 440 
I don't recall any other sizes in the RB's.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 30, 2010, 03:02:58 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
I was refering to the 383 RB, not the 361.  Yep!  I do know the diff.
 
B Block
350, 361, 383 (After 1960) , 400
 
RB
383 (2 Years) 413, 440 
RB 426 Wedge/Max Wedge.

I think it is a viable swap, it is actually the tallest piston pin to deckheight piston I could find in the simple piston search. Wish there was something off the shelf with a little higher deck height, but hey, gotta work with what you have sometimes.dana442010-03-30 20:04:47
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on April 01, 2010, 06:27:37 PM
Well, I got the pistons from egge. I hope there are no issues with them. They will be in tomorrow, and reassembly possibly starts on Sunday. I can't wait to get this thing running again!!!

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on April 12, 2010, 08:34:09 PM
Quote from: rob_molloy
Well, I got the pistons from egge. I hope there are no issues with them. They will be in tomorrow, and reassembly possibly starts on Sunday. I can't wait to get this thing running again!!!

Have you gotten a piston in so you can measure your piston top to deck height clearance to see what the new compression is going to be?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 03, 2010, 01:52:11 PM
Wow. I hadn't realized how long it's been since I've been on here. The engine it fully together, and actually in the car. Stupid me (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(or guy at shop for forgetting) but we forgot to put the oil pump shaft in, so I get to have fun doing that this weekend. Along with bolting on the generator, water pump, PS pump, and Monday I should get the carb adapter plate, and can finally button this up and maybe get it started. Here's a pic of the way it's sitting right now:
 
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs985.snc4/75813_452209115840_716290840_5728409_7633827_n.jpg) 
 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on November 03, 2010, 07:25:06 PM
Pretttyyyyyyyyy.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on November 03, 2010, 08:46:46 PM
Nice Job (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
You've been around to have your seeds broken, so I'll ask this question.
 
 
But does it run!?! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
I do that to everyone
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 04, 2010, 03:09:55 AM
We don't need no stinkin oil pump rod.



Do we?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2010, 04:08:21 PM
Not unless you want a rerun of the last 440
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 08, 2010, 06:44:39 AM
Wow...it seems like 5 steps forward, 3 steps back. Got the engine in, pretty much everything bolted on, just needs belts and the electrical hooked up. WELL, I start putting coolant in, and at about the 2 1/2 gallon point, coolant starts dumping out under the passenger side head. I checked, it's not a freeze plug, unless there is on the head. I thought it was coming out one of the spark plugs at first. ARGH! I'm calling the shop when they open today to discuss this with them, because they were the ones who mounted the heads and torqued them down.
 
On a side note, could someone with the RB 383 please post a picture of where the PS pump is SUPPOSED to mount? I have it on right now, but it's where the A/C compressor was, so I know it's not the correct spot, but I can't for the life of me remember where it came off from. Thanks!!!!
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on November 08, 2010, 08:51:34 AM
Do you have exhaust manifolds on the motor?  If not, that could be where the coolant flowed out if a stud is missing.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 08, 2010, 09:51:03 AM
See, that's why I sign up for these forums!!! LOL. I'm pretty sure that's where I'm missing the stud! I didn't even think about that.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on November 08, 2010, 01:48:34 PM
Don't feel bad - I discovered that little 'trick" merely by accident.  "Where is the coolant coming from?" while holding on to the stud that I just removed. 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 09, 2010, 07:47:29 AM
Success!!! I put a bolt in there, and another gallon of coolant went in fine. Thats 2.5 gallons thus far, need about another half gallon to a gallon I think to top that off, hook up the wiring and choke, and I should be able to turn it over this weekend. Will post video when that happens.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on November 09, 2010, 08:19:00 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif)

Ha!  Glad you found the problem!
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on November 09, 2010, 09:22:59 AM
FYI, those heads have freeze plugs in them too.  I have seen them leak from time to time. . .
 
I would put never sieze on the bolts entering the head.  Or even just some grease.  They will come out allot easier later if needed without breaking them.  Always use Grade 5 on the exhaust manifolds.  They will stand up to the heat better than a grade 8 and are less apt to break when removing them
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 09, 2010, 06:41:51 PM
I'll be sure to keep the freeze plug in the head thing in mind.

Here are a couple of pictures as the engine sits now, full of fluids, all sealed up, just need to hook up the wiring, and it SHOULD be ready to start. That's my plan for Thursday :D

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs949.snc4/74262_456577045840_716290840_5815316_4882639_n.jpg)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs894.snc4/72747_456577175840_716290840_5815317_5274177_n.jpg)

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on November 09, 2010, 06:43:22 PM
Brass or bronze nuts. Dissimilar metals won't seize to each other over time, as another means to prevent the studs from breaking. Only bad one is the special deep socket nut, which the stud doesn't go into the water jacket, never seize those so the stud comes out of the head.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 14, 2010, 12:09:12 PM
well, going another step backwards. It wanted to fire yesterday, but the starter was going SO SLOW. So went last night, got a new battery, a new starter relay, and a new starter. Got all 3 just to be safe. Got the new starter relay in, got the stock starter out, and learned that the one I had gotten was the wrong one. Went back to the store for a load test (it passed the electrical test but failed the visual. The gear was turning so slowly you could follow the teeth. to find out that I either need to special order a new starter ($300) or have the stock one rebuilt. I'm calling tomorrow about having it rebuilt. And the waiting comtinues. I guess in the meantime I can get the horn in, fix the handle on the drivers side door, and maybe get the new radio in. Fun stuff!!

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 14, 2010, 12:16:37 PM
OH!!! Could someone with this engine please take a shot of where the oil pressure line taps into the engine? That would be awesome!! Thanks

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 14, 2010, 12:47:08 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Clipboard0222.jpg)


Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 14, 2010, 02:58:51 PM
Hmm..interesting. Thank you for the picture, but that does bring up the age old question....THEN WHERE THE HELL AM I LEAKING OIL FROM???? Hmmm...some investigation will need to get underway this week.

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on November 14, 2010, 05:44:12 PM
There are two plugs back there, one for the oil pressure sending unit and another backup location where the bolt is showing in the picture, I believe they are 1/8th inch pipe plug threads. The next location is the valley pan, which needs to have a dab of goop at the corners where the heads meet the block, and then the bolts themselves that attach the little rail to  clamp the front and rear of the valley pan, the bolts on the intake manifold, and the valve covers. For the valley pan and intake manifold bolts, remember these bolts are open tapped threads into oil splashing around. The only way I have found to prevent them from leaking oil over time (took me a couple years to figure this out properly), is to take the bolt and wipe blue Permatex into the threads, but not all the threads. It should start about half an inch down from the bolt head and cover maybe three threads. Also, remember these are precision male and female threads joining together and all the amount of Permatex you need is to wipe it to fit in the grooves of the thread, any more just plugs up the oil pump screen over time if it breaks loose, so it doesn't take much. The valve cover leaking at the back can be the last place the oil can come from, if the valve covers are metal originals, chances are good the bolt holes have been crushed downward towards the head and the gasket can't seal any more. I like to actually dimple them to the head of the bolt side a little bit so when I tighten them down, being as the bolt holes are higher than the area around the lip, they tend to squeeze the gasket over a larger area than just the bolt hole location. If aluminum valve covers, quite often the casting marks will interfere with the gasket itself and a little aluminum alterning may be needed, a straight edge can find the high and low spots easily. There are several oil plugs and a cam freeze plug at the back of the block, but if they haven't been leaking before, they usually don't just start leaking.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Ken on November 14, 2010, 07:38:31 PM
It could be leaking from the oil pressure sending unit, which has the arrow pointing to it in Stan's pic.  It is Bakelite and can allow leakage over time.

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Snotty on November 15, 2010, 09:05:47 AM
Could also be the rear main seal.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on November 15, 2010, 10:18:43 AM
I'm going to do some looking tonight, I think it may be coming from the valve cover. I dropped the starter off for a quote to get rebuilt. Waiting to hear back on that one. Man...this is going to be like a brand new running car by the time this is done LOL. Thanks for the help guys!
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on February 19, 2011, 08:37:35 AM
Ok, so...I got the starter back a while ago, but the issue I've been dealing with the past month or so (still hasn't started for more than 3 seconds) is that the starter doesn't seem strong enough to crank the car. Brand new solenoid on the starter, the brushes and everything in the starter are new, I have a new starter relay, new battery cables...I know that there is power going through the starter, but it seems to be struggling. Any suggestions?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on February 19, 2011, 10:12:19 AM
That's a direct drive starter.  That's probably why you think that.  Or the engine is too tight.  Does it sound like it's struggling?  Or does it sound like the batterry is low? 
 
You can put a standard Chrysler starter with the reduction gear in if you want.  But use the High Torque.
 
What's the deal with this 3 seconds?
 
 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on February 19, 2011, 11:02:52 AM
Yeah, what's up with that three seconds. It may be a condenser of all things. To verify it is not fuel, fill the fuel bowl and see if she runs for less than a minute but more than three seconds then stops, which could be fuel pump or fuel line/filter related.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on February 19, 2011, 06:19:25 PM
I guess it's sounding like the starter struggling to turn the engine. It engages, and will crank (slowly) one or two times, then just stop. I try again, and it engages, but doesn't turn the engine. 

My concern right now is the starter. Even if the fuel pump and everything are working fine, won't do anything without a crank. Polarco, what kind of starter would you recommend getting? I picked one up before, but it didn't come anywhere near bolting up to the trans...
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on February 19, 2011, 07:17:56 PM
Put an 1 1/4" socket on the front damper bolt and see if the engine turns free.  If it doesn't, shoot some oil into the cylinders and see if it turns easier.  You know where I'm going with this.  Could be the cylinders are too dry.  You could take the plugs all out and see what happens too.  Try to shoot the oil into the back of the cylinder.  This way the oil will flow all the way around the rings.  A flex neck oil can or a piece of hose on an oil can works best on a BB.
 
  Was the oil pump primed?
 
If the engine turns easily, you have a starter problem.  I would get a high torque reduction gear starter.   They run between $45 and $65.  I think you want like 1980.    They are all the same, big or small block.  
They spin faster and will start the car easier.  Also draw less from the battery. 
 

 
Put a piece of hose from the fuel pump to a gas can.  Sometimes they can be a old woman to get fuel up from the tank until you can run it longer. 
 
That's not a new pump?  Shame. . . LOL (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
We'll keep a light on for you
POLARACO2011-02-20 00:22:08
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on February 19, 2011, 07:38:22 PM
Looking back at the beginning of the post, which was quite some time ago, when you reassembled the engine, did you oil the wristpins on the pistons? From there, did you prime the oil pump with a drill and the hex rod, or an old distributor and the intermediate shaft with the cam gears ground down a whole lot so as not to damage the gear, and then ensure the fuel pump rod is in place to engage the fuel pump? The other thing, like I said before, is fill the carb itself with fuel, don't dump it down the throat, and limit your starter fluid, that stuff kills engines, especially fresh engines, too hot burning on a fresh engine. 
Now, if the wristpins weren't oiled, that't the fun one, they will seize and waste all eight pistons in about a minute. Very serious about this, had a friend do it to a BBC several years back, not a pretty site. Did you oil the cylinders when installing the pistons, along with the wristpins?
Speaking of starters, any starter, including the small high torque ones will work if not mistaken, small and big block are the same, the old big block high torque can be identified by an aluminum end piece where the two long 3/8X4inch bolts go in, regular ones have a stamped steel plate.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on February 20, 2011, 07:32:58 AM
Gee Ed. . . I don't remember.  Are the wrist pins pressure lubed?  I thought they were and that helped cools the piston

I guess my point is, he could run the pump and turn the motor over at the same time slowly to get oil up there.POLARACO2011-02-20 12:35:30
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on February 20, 2011, 07:44:33 AM
Quote from: dana44
Looking back at the beginning of the post, which was quite some time ago, when you reassembled the engine, did you oil the wristpins on the pistons? From there, did you prime the oil pump with a drill and the hex rod, or an old distributor and the intermediate shaft with the cam gears ground down a whole lot so as not to damage the gear, and then ensure the fuel pump rod is in place to engage the fuel pump? The other thing, like I said before, is fill the carb itself with fuel, don't dump it down the throat, and limit your starter fluid, that stuff kills engines, especially fresh engines, too hot burning on a fresh engine. 
Now, if the wristpins weren't oiled, that't the fun one, they will seize and waste all eight pistons in about a minute. Very serious about this, had a friend do it to a BBC several years back, not a pretty site. Did you oil the cylinders when installing the pistons, along with the wristpins?


 
Now my 2 cents  LOL
 
I don't think that would cause the motor to drag like he's describing.  I just reminded myself a bit ago when working on that 413 for the 65.  after washing out the engine with solvents, I forgot to oil the cylinders and it wouldn't turn for crap.  But after flushing the sludge out of the galleries, priming was definitely in order.  By the way, for lazy asses like myself, PB Blaster is a very poor lube for that.  LOL  Motor oil.
 
But like I said before, if the motor is turning free, then just put a Mopar Screamer in there and get it over with.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on February 20, 2011, 05:55:05 PM
I will definately check the oil situation, and will get a new starter. It's gonna have to go on the back burner right now. My truck was broken into last night, so for right now money has to go into one of my other mopars. I will definately try and run some tests that don't cost anything though!
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 11, 2011, 06:43:17 AM
Alright, back on track...kinda. new high torque starter and fuel pump will be in this afternoon. Don't know if I will put them on tonight, or wait until tomorrow morning...probably tonight because I want to get this thing started LOL!!! Wish me luck!
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 11, 2011, 12:09:14 PM
I was just wondering about you yesterday
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 11, 2011, 01:32:41 PM
Well, good news bad news. Starter didn't come close to bolting  up....no more online ordering for me. This is insane. Fuel pump bolted up fine. Off to my local parts store WITH the stock starter to find something high torque that will bolt up.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 11, 2011, 02:04:39 PM
Even the little starters from the pick ups will work
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 11, 2011, 02:26:33 PM
It's not that, the starter I got would work, if the bracket didn't have extras to it. The bottom hole on the starter has more metal next to it than my stock starter does, so it throws off the top hole to where it's about an inch off. This starter: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Starter/1966-Chrysler-New-Yorker/_/N-ixwm3Z93xl9?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=starter&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=336834_171246_0_ will be at autozone in the morning for me to pick up. It looks like it should work, and it's high torque for a 66 new yorker :D
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 11, 2011, 02:27:30 PM
Gah!!! The link didn't work. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Starter/1966-Chrysler-New-Yorker/_/N-ixwm3Z93xl9?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=starter&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=336834_171246_0_ (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Starter/1966-Chrysler-New-Yorker/_/N-ixwm3Z93xl9?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=starter&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=336834_171246_0_)
That should do it.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 12, 2011, 09:18:07 AM
Sooooo....that starter didn't work either. There is not enough clearance on the block side for any of these starters. I called the shop that rebuilt the starter, and they're going to see if anybody makes a high torque winding kit for the stock starter...if not...I'm at a loss....
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 12, 2011, 01:31:54 PM
You're KIDDING!  I did it on my 59
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 12, 2011, 04:43:24 PM


http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/starters.html (http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/starters.html)

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/delihist.html (http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/delihist.html)




http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Electrical/starter.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Electrical/starter.htm)

stitcherbob2011-03-12 22:00:33
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 12, 2011, 04:49:30 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
You're KIDDING!  I did it on my 59

wasn't your 59 equipped with a later model 413?

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 12, 2011, 05:49:33 PM
2 years, but it was the same motor as the 59 413, 383 ect.
 
A BB is a BB is a BB is a BB.  same for an RB.  It's like that starter was assembled wrong or something.  But shame on Rob.   Auto Zone???  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 13, 2011, 08:37:06 AM
nah, they have to be different starters, cuz when I look it up for 59-62, it says only the bushings and brushes are available....we would send our starters out to be rebuilt when a complete unit wasn't in an auto parts store stock....




Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2011, 09:01:58 AM
That's because it's stock parts.  This is modified
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Herman on March 13, 2011, 10:21:13 AM
Guys, guys...!
I thought it was fairly common sense to know that a Mopar starter bolts on/into the 'transmission'. The engine in front of it has nothing to do with the type of starter.

I don't know what's been done to the car earlier, but a castiron transmission will not accept a later style gearreduction or even an '80s ministarter starter. You're stuck with using the directdrive starter until you swap a '62-or newer 727 tranny in the car.

Did you also install a ground-cable from the motor to the firewall?
Also try out a modern gell-type battery from Exide or Optima for instance. These things usually have a bit more 'push' then the regular batteries.



Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2011, 01:33:02 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

I forgot about that
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 14, 2011, 05:59:35 PM
Well, I'm almost at a loss. The guys haven't heard anything about a high torque wind kit for my starter. Can't afford a trans right now, so I don't know what I'm going to do.
The battery is pretty much brand new 800 CCA, pretty much the the highest cranking amps they sold. Brand new cables, good ground from batt to block, block to firewall. I could try a larger cable from block to firewall, but I don't know how much that will help.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 14, 2011, 07:37:22 PM
You don't need a heavy from the blocl to the body
 
There is no such thing as a high torque direct drive, but they could wind it to give it more snot.
 
My mistake.  Slap me.  It's my fault, I lead you down a wrong path.  The reduction gear starter will not fit on the cast iron trans.  Mine had the aluminum trans.   I completely forgot about that.  My fault and I apologize Rob
 
You are stuck with the direct drive.
 
Le's go back to the drag.  Does the engine turn freely?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 15, 2011, 09:09:21 AM
I'm hoping they can wind it. It just needs that extra little bit. The car is almost there, I just don't want to get stranded somewhere because the starter decides it doesn't want to work like it needs to.

No worries on the starter thing. It happens. I'm glad places have decent return policies.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2011, 11:13:01 AM
[/QUOTE]

 
 
Good ol Hermie straightened my ass out.  I thought I was mistaken, but I was mistaken (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Herman on March 16, 2011, 01:45:16 PM
It was a dirty job but someone had to do it... lol

The starter on the 354 poly in my '57 Chrysler also cranks as slow as molasses. And because the fuel drains back and also evaporates out of the carb within a day or 2, it usually takes a good 30-40 seconds of cranking before it finally jumps to life again.
Then after pushing the Drive-button, it takes another 40 seconds before the transmission engages... lol
I've got a 392 Hemi in the works, and an A518 overdrive awaiting patiently for this car.

I would try different starters if you can get your hands on them, to see if one of them cranks faster.
Perhaps even open one up and check it's condition. Maybe slap some fresh grease on the bearings aswell.



Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on March 16, 2011, 07:46:20 PM
I'm wondering, does anybody know if getting this adapter kit would work? http://www.drivewire.com/includes/secure/popup.php?type=more&image=L2ltYWdlcy9zaG9wL3Byb2RpbWFnZS9pbWFnZXMvbGFrZXdvb2QvMTU5MDUuanBn&title=TGFrZXdvb2QgU3RhcnRlcg==&text=TEFLRVdPT0QgU1RBUlRFUiBBREFQVEVSIEtJVCAtLSBEZXNpZ25lZCBGb3IgVXNlIEluIENvbmp1bmN0aW9uIFdpdGggTGFrZXdvb2QgQmVsbGhvdXNpbmdzIFdpdGggUGFydCBOdW1iZXIgMTUzMzAsIFJlcXVpcmVkIFRvIFJlbG9jYXRlIFRoZSBTdGFydGVyIFdoZW4gQSAxMzAgVG9vdGggRmx5d2hlZWwgSXMgVXRpbGl6ZWQsIEluY2x1ZGVzIEEgRmFicmljYXRlZCBQbGF0ZSBXaXRoIFN0dWQsIFN0YXJ0ZXIgTm9zZSBBZGFwdGVyIEFuZCBBbGwgTmVjZXNzYXJ5IEhhcmR3YXJlLCBXaXRoIE1hbnVmYWN0dXJlcidzIExpbWl0ZWQgOTAtRGF5IFdhcnJhbnR5 (http://www.drivewire.com/includes/secure/popup.php?type=more&image=L2ltYWdlcy9zaG9wL3Byb2RpbWFnZS9pbWFnZXMvbGFrZXdvb2QvMTU5MDUuanBn&title=TGFrZXdvb2QgU3RhcnRlcg==&text=TEFLRVdPT0QgU1RBUlRFUiBBREFQVEVSIEtJVCAtLSBEZXNpZ25lZCBGb3IgVXNlIEluIENvbmp1bmN0aW9uIFdpdGggTGFrZXdvb2QgQmVsbGhvdXNpbmdzIFdpdGggUGFydCBOdW1iZXIgMTUzMzAsIFJlcXVpcmVkIFRvIFJlbG9jYXRlIFRoZSBTdGFydGVyIFdoZW4gQSAxMzAgVG9vdGggRmx5d2hlZWwgSXMgVXRpbGl6ZWQsIEluY2x1ZGVzIEEgRmFicmljYXRlZCBQbGF0ZSBXaXRoIFN0dWQsIFN0YXJ0ZXIgTm9zZSBBZGFwdGVyIEFuZCBBbGwgTmVjZXNzYXJ5IEhhcmR3YXJlLCBXaXRoIE1hbnVmYWN0dXJlcidzIExpbWl0ZWQgOTAtRGF5IFdhcnJhbnR5)
Wow, that link turned out long. But I've been looking, and a lot of sites that suggest the starter that I bought, also suggest this. I don't want to spend the $50 buying this if there is zero shot it will work. What do you guys think?
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2011, 08:52:41 PM
But that has to be used with their bell housing
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on March 16, 2011, 09:24:55 PM
Is this a rebuilt starter or the original? There is a nose bushing that can appear good when no torque or engagement is done to it, and then slightly bind when in the transmission and engaged, making her drag. New brushes and cleaned up armature can help, along with a little grease  in the end bushings can help. Rewinding the whole thing may be almost as much as the $191 for a new one (I found online) and not really accomplish much. I say start with new brushes and bushings, pull her apart, polish the copper contact area on the armature where the brushes contact, blow the cobwebs out of her, replace the end bushings, grease them up a bit and try again. IN reading a little about them, the rear bushing (should be the same bushing as the nose bushing) tends to wear out more from the heat of the exhaust pipe in close proximity, so change both. Rockauto lists both bushings and brushes in their database. Run a scribe through the copper armature grooves before polishing, then clean it out afterwards again for better contact.dana442011-03-17 01:33:45
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on April 03, 2011, 08:43:13 AM

So, I was feeling froggy this morning and wanted to tweak, and this is what became of it.
[TUBE]SCYe_put0DI[/TUBE]

My big concern is the smoke coming out the passenger side header. I think it did that before though. Cant remember, it's been so long. Next weekend will be exhaust. :D

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Leaburn Patey on April 03, 2011, 09:23:06 AM
It is not uncommon for a fresh rebuild to puff a little until everything seats itself and settle down after some driving time.
Once you get the exhaust on and drive it,it should be OK.
Not to worry.
 
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Jason Goldsack on April 03, 2011, 09:37:09 AM
What did you do to fix the starter issue?

Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 03, 2011, 04:28:14 PM
I couldn't tell from the vid, but is it exhaust leaking out somewhere, or oil burning off?  Mine leaks a little bit from the valve cover back in that corner, and if it sits for an extended period of time will accumulate enough oil on top of the exhaust to smoke like that for a few minutes the next start up.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Guests on April 03, 2011, 04:36:08 PM
I would also say the same thing, a little oil from a fresh build, a little oil on the exhaust. Drive her for a bit and it should stop, or, the valve cover leaks from that location.
Title: Getting the RB 383 back
Post by: Rob Molloy on April 03, 2011, 05:33:47 PM
As far as the starter issue went, I didn't really do anything to it. I waited for the weather to warm up a little bit (it seemed to want to crank a little better when it was warm outside) and poured a little gas down the carb. I put in a new fuel pump a little while ago. It fired and burned what I poured down, and died. I messed with the carb and heard the hissing of fuel coming through the carb. That's when I realized the fuel made it from the tank. Cranked a little more and it roared to life. It starts a lot easier now. There are a few leaks I have to track down (coolant, tranny fluid) and the exhaust needs to be done, but I was able to drive it around the block. I'm so jazzed to have it running again!