MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Jason Medhurst on August 18, 2009, 06:40:37 PM

Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on August 18, 2009, 06:40:37 PM
I just had my transmission rebuilt (albeit by a company that went under 1 month after it was done!  I have all the luck(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)).
 
The transmission is shifting really well now, but I am fighting what appears to be a pan leak.  It looks to me like the leak is coming from both the edge, but most of the fluid is on the bolts.  I know this can be a tough one to cure.  Any ideas?
 
Also, I notice that if I leave the car and don't drive it for several days, when I start it up, and put it in gear, it takes a little while for the fluid to get moving.  The car gets moving slowly.  If I gas it, it gets going faster.  Almost like it has lost its prime.  After this, its fine for a while.  It did this before the rebuild also. 
 
My personal opinion of the guys that rebuilt it was they were reputable.  They were just caught up by a tough economy.
 
Vick Ferrari2009-08-18 23:42:51
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Rich on August 18, 2009, 09:23:22 PM
Get one of the new rubber/steel gaskets for a modern Chrysler auto trans (The 518 model I think) it should stop the leaks. 

Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stitcherbob on August 18, 2009, 10:46:07 PM
They probably overtightened the bolts....you may have to hammer and dolly the pan flange to straighten out all of the holes.

BTW I always glue the pan & gasket on with high tack sealant....it's gonna stay on there a long time anyway....


Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 19, 2009, 02:53:19 AM
Quote from: krautmaster
Get one of the new rubber/steel gaskets for a modern Chrysler auto trans (The 518 model I think) it should stop the leaks. 

Absotively 110% in agreement.
They're around 25 bucks and well worth the super-premium price.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2009, 12:49:34 PM
And who taught you that lesson?
 
As Bob said, they were probably over tightened.  Flatted out the bolt ho;es with a ball pien hammer as Bob described and ise a 1/4" drive ratchet to put the pan back on.  Or, get that gasket Stan mentioned.  It's the sa,e one for a 518 if it's a 727 trans and a 500 if it's a 904
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 19, 2009, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
And who taught you that lesson?

    (http://www.kitchenroundtable.com/i/smiley/bow.gif)yes, it was you oh great and wise master.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Tom Dawson on August 20, 2009, 06:04:23 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
And who taught you that lesson?


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
easy on the old but kissing  Stan
Tom
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 20, 2009, 06:35:47 AM
He needs to kiss my Butt.  He needs a favor
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 20, 2009, 09:33:03 AM
I had this happen to me once on my Van. 
 
When I drained and pulled the pan I saw that I had "rolled" one end of the gasket.  Ever since then, when I install the pan I put silicone sealer on the pan and both sides of the gasket and then thread each bolt through the pan into the gasket.  The gasket will hold the bolts in place while you line up the pan to tighten.  I have not had a leak since.
 
I buy the basic, cheap gaskets.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on August 20, 2009, 08:19:24 PM
Thanks guys, so replace the gasket, should I get the aftermarket aluminum pan? 
 
Also, any ideas on the slow reaction of the tranny when I start the car after many days?  Is it the tc draining??
 
J
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Robert Rottman on August 21, 2009, 05:15:47 AM
Quote from: Vick Ferrari
Thanks guys, so replace the gasket, should I get the aftermarket aluminum pan? 
 
Also, any ideas on the slow reaction of the tranny when I start the car after many days?  Is it the tc draining??
 
 
This "slow reaction" happens to my 70 Fury when I'm low on transmission fluid....especially when it's cold outside. I'm thinking its not very cold in AZ right now though....Check your fluid level especially since it's been leaking. Also...may certainly be a no brainer to you...but I've seen many times before....guys just pull the dipstick and look at it and say it's ok...Car must be level, up to temperature and in neutral...read dipstick for exact way to check level...some say to check level in Park if I remember rightly.
 
Also....I had leak problems right after my 69 Fury transmission was rebuilt. The o-ring on the fill tube was not sealing properly...The guy claimed he put the correct o-ring in there...I wound up taking some of the trans. fluid out via a big syringe with long clear tubing on it right down the fill tube...then cleaning both surfaces up real good with rubbing alcohol and then I used high temp RTV on the end of the fill tube right over/around the o-ring...waited for it to set up 24 hours and refilled the trans....never had a problem again.
 
Wipe your entire pan, bolt heads and up around the top of the perimeter of pan too with an old rag...clean it up real good...then watch where it's actually seeping from...When my fill tube was leaking, it was very apparent that the leak was starting from the fill tube/transmission fill tube hole but it wound up dripping from the pan/bolts and everywhere from the perimeter of the pan...This sure looked like the pan gasket was the culprit...but it wasn't. Especially after driving the car...It blows all over the place from the air currents. Wipe it down real good and you'll find the source of the leak.
 
Best wishes to you
Bob 
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Rich on August 21, 2009, 01:18:30 PM
You HAVE to check the fluid hot with the trans in neutral. It helps a lot if you put the car in neutral right after you start it, so that the pump will fill the converter back up. It only takes 20-30 seconds. Many TF's have this situation after sitting for awhile.

Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on August 21, 2009, 06:38:13 PM
Thanks Bob, yes, I always check fluid warm or hot and level with car running.
 
The level looks good to me.  I wonder if these torque converters lose their prime while sitting.  That would explain its behavior.  Again, it only happens when I drive it after sitting for some time.  Otherwise, it gets in gear normally.
 
I hate doing something more than once.  I think I am going to cover my bases, get new bolts and gaskets for the bolts, and a new stiffer and flatter pan.
 
I had read elswhere to buy the gaskets from a later model vehicle.  I read that there was a chnage in the gasket that went to more of a plastic material than rubber.  Maybe to reduce the chance of cold flowing the gasket.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 22, 2009, 03:06:46 AM
The pump is draining out.  Common.  You can put a check valve in the cooling line or just start it in neutral.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Brian on August 22, 2009, 07:52:22 PM
When you have the pan off to replace the filter and gasket throw one of these on the pan as well....makes changing the fluid WAY easier and very little mess.
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/B-M-Automatic-Transmission-Drain-Plug-Kit-80250-New_W0QQitemZ330353377001QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4cea987ee9&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/B-M-Automatic-Transmission-Drain-Plug-Kit-80250-New_W0QQitemZ330353377001QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4cea987ee9&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245)
 
I've installed these on all my 727 for some time now and they work great...no leaks.  I install it near where the dipstick comes down into the pan.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 23, 2009, 04:22:34 AM
Quote from: thrashingcows
...throw one of these on the pan as well....makes changing the fluid WAY easier and very little mess.

I like! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on August 24, 2009, 08:11:46 AM
I am going to order this.  Looks like a good deal for cast aluminum.
 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-1009/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-1009/)
 
comeds with a draing plug too!
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 24, 2009, 10:34:25 AM
Quote from: krautmaster
You HAVE to check the fluid hot with the trans in neutral. It helps a lot if you put the car in neutral right after you start it, so that the pump will fill the converter back up. It only takes 20-30 seconds. Many TF's have this situation after sitting for awhile.
 
I fully agree.  Start the car, put it in neutral, fasten your seat belts and put on your sunglasses.  By that time you car should shift just fine.  There have been many articles written as to why this is the case; I've just learned to live with it.
 
I agree with Bob too, that a low transmission will give similar results, but this is so common with old Mopars that I douut you would have a leak - unless you see fluid every time you back up.
 
 
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 24, 2009, 10:39:34 AM
The reason why transmission pans do not have drain plugs is to force the person doing the job to take the pan off.  That way there is no excuse for not changing the filter - a very easy job once the pan is off!  It would be very tempting to open the plug, drain, close, and re-fill.
 
I don't recommend them at all.   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif) in my opinion.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on August 24, 2009, 01:59:32 PM
I like a drain plug to help with the fluid change.  I still take the pan off and replace the filter, just without the huge mess.
 
Thanks for the heads up about it losing prime.  I wanted to make sure something wasn't wrong with my tranny.  I have no problems putting it in neutral for a little while.  I like to warm the car up anyway before driving.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Brian on August 24, 2009, 02:39:50 PM
Quote from: Snotty
The reason why transmission pans do not have drain plugs is to force the person doing the job to take the pan off.  That way there is no excuse for not changing the filter - a very easy job once the pan is off!  It would be very tempting to open the plug, drain, close, and re-fill.
 


 
Well that was then...this is now, and most of use would never consider draining the fluid without changing the filter as well.  I like it because it helps keep the mess to a minimum.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 24, 2009, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: Snotty
The reason why transmission pans do not have drain plugs is to force the person doing the job to take the pan off.  That way there is no excuse for not changing the filter - a very easy job once the pan is off!  It would be very tempting to open the plug, drain, close, and re-fill.
 
 
I agree with Vick.  How many of use real enthusiasts would NOT change the filter?  I'm lazy, but if I'm dropping the fluid, I'm dropping the fan.
 
For that matter, what would stop someone from just draining the engine oil and not the filter???
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: glen cyr on August 24, 2009, 04:27:29 PM
Apperantly.........the person who owned Leaburns engine before him!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Glen
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 24, 2009, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: owatajrkiam
Apperantly.........the person who owned Leaburns engine before him!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Glen
 
Good point Glen
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 25, 2009, 04:03:58 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Quote from: owatajrkiam
Apperantly.........the person who owned Leaburns engine before him!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Glen
 
[/QUOTE
The guy who owned that engine wouldn't have changed the oil regardless of drain plug or no. 
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: glen cyr on August 25, 2009, 07:24:30 AM
I would hate to see his shorts!!!!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 25, 2009, 08:10:23 AM
From the looks of it, he could have taken the blug out and nothing would come out!
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 25, 2009, 09:32:04 AM
Blug?  Did you say 'blug'?
 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/walker66/MyCousinVinny3UTE.jpg)
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 25, 2009, 11:13:37 AM
What's a Ute?
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 25, 2009, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
For that matter, what would stop someone from just draining the engine oil and not the filter???
 
Do you think that doesn't happen?
 
Are we all under the assumption that the only people working on our cars as we as the owners?  I don't make that assumption at all.  It is only recently that I started doing my own oil changes again, and most people I know take their cars to transmission shops to get their auto-transmissions serviced.  Perhaps those of you responding to my comment do all of your own service work.  I think that's great, but I also think you are in a minorioty of car owners.  Therefore I do not trust people enough to give them a way to make a short-cut.
 
No transmission drain plug for me, thank you!
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Leaburn Patey on August 25, 2009, 01:24:38 PM
Just buy a trans oil catcher--a giant oversize funnel used for transmission services.
It goes over your existing oil drain pan.
Works well catching all the trans fluid.Doubles as a fluid catcher should you have an oil leak,coolant leak,etc,etc.
CBarge2009-08-25 18:26:29
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 25, 2009, 01:51:39 PM
Yeah they are nice, but really hard to work with on your back
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stitcherbob on August 25, 2009, 06:01:03 PM
I had been dreading doing my trans on the Imperial because everyone talks about this.....but it went very clean without a drain plug.
I used a set of ramps and a big drain pan. I removed all of the bolts on the pan except  2 across from each other at the rear and 2 across from each other on the front corners. I rolled under the engine and reached back and loosened each bolt a little ( the rear ones more than the front) until I could break the seal and the fluid drained out the back into the pan. I took the rear 2 bolts out and the pan pivoted more so the rest of the fluid drained. It was a simple matter to take the front bolts out and drop the empty pan. It went so well, I decided not to weld a nut to the pan for a plug after all.

I checked the pan for straightness, cleaned it and glued a regular pan gasket onto it with high tack from Permatex. More high tack on the top and I bolted it on without overtightening it. No leaks!


Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 26, 2009, 09:01:59 AM
Quote from: CBarge
Just buy a trans oil catcher--a giant oversize funnel used for transmission services.
It goes over your existing oil drain pan.
Works well catching all the trans fluid.Doubles as a fluid catcher should you have an oil leak,coolant leak,etc,etc.
 
Every time I service a transmission I wished I had one of these!!!
 
I also wish I had a lift!!!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 26, 2009, 09:05:17 AM
Glad to hear it Bob. 
 
The mess always happens to me when I take off the final two bolts after draining.  Either I fumble and tip it spilling the last remants, or I drop it into the catcher and [color=#ff0000 size=7]SPLASH!!![/color]
 
Yuck!
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: glen cyr on August 26, 2009, 06:29:31 PM
And that's why i use one of these!!!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/26/transmission_service_3.jpg)
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jacques on August 26, 2009, 10:34:23 PM
I also installed a deeper pan with drainplug, makes life much easier.
 
As for the gaskets, I tried a Cometic gasket, with the correct sealer, I drove the Imperial to Hungary without leaking 1 drop of ATF. Highly recommended, best tranny pan gasket I ever used, and it wasnt much more expensive than a standard gasket.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Snotty on August 27, 2009, 02:03:07 PM
Quote from: owatajrkiam
And that's why i use one of these!!!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/26/transmission_service_3.jpg)
 
Good.  Just be sure that you're the one who always changes your transmission fluid.
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Steve on August 27, 2009, 03:07:14 PM
I have one in the Polaraco. . .It will probably be years before I change that fluid. . .
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Jason Medhurst on September 16, 2009, 07:09:10 PM
I am glad that the people who prepared that picture pointed out the drain plug and the transmission fluid.  I was really confused until I saw that!
Title: 727 Pan Leaking
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 17, 2009, 03:49:12 AM
What they didn't point out was that it was a proctologist changing the fluid right before seeing a patient.