MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 05:06:36 AM

Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 05:06:36 AM

Hi everyone,

Last night My friend Jon and I were working on my 1968 Sport Fury. The good news is that she now has 4 new shock absorbers. The bad news is that there is something wrong in the brake electrical circuit. We took the car around the block and every time I touched the brake pedal the headlights would flick off for a second and the dash lights would dim. The problem got worse as I headed home. It got to the point where if I put the turn signal on and hit the brakes, I'd lose the headlights completely and the blinker wouldn't even blink!!!!

Got it back to the barn and started to investigate. When I would step on the brake pedal, the dash lights would dim significantly and the ammeter needle drops from straight up to halfway to the first line on the Discharge side. I could actually hear a brief change in the motor when the pedal is pressed.

Jon disconnected all the bulkhead connectors, cleaned all the contacts as best he could and reconnected everything. Went to start the engine, it turned over a couple times and then lost everything electrical. Total absence of voltage in the car. ARRGH!

Got out the FSM (without a doubt the best money I've spent for this car) and started tracing out the electrical circuit. Working backwards from the battery, we checked the fusible link and that was OK. From there it goes to the Ammeter thru the bulkhead connector. We removed the appropriate connector and noticed that the contact for the fusible link/ammeter looked a little charred. Not a good sign.

Jon got under the dash to see what was going on there. He doesn't know what he did, but after moving some unidentified wires all of a sudden we had voltage again. We started the car and to no surprise, we had the same problems as before, except that the headlights no longer flicker when the pedal is applied. Jon started to measure voltages under the hood. The Battery remains rock steady at about 14.3V regardless of the brake pedal. However the feed side of the ballast resistor (to the battery), drops from 12.3V to about 8V when the pedal is pressed!

IMPORTANT NOTE: As I mentioned in an old post from last year, we had to modify the ignition circuit because after converting to electronic ignition, the engine wanted to die when the brake pedal was pressed. We provide +VBAT to the ECM directly from the battery using a switched relay. That solved the engine symptom, but obviously did not address the cause of the problem:Low Voltage.

Anyone have any ideas? Can the ammeter become a high-current draw itself? I'm out of ideas and I'm confident that when this problem is solved, I can return the ignition circuit to it's normal circuitry. I think the problem is going to found behind the dashboard. I'm not looking forward to removing the instrument panel, but if I have to.....

As always, any help or suggestion is sincerely appreciated.

Thank you,
Uncle Hulka
Uncle Hulka2009-05-02 10:08:22
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 02, 2009, 09:14:12 AM
Plain & simple UncaHulk... SHORT!  And a big one.
I'm waaaay better at tracking down shorts than in trying to explain how to but.....
 
You activate brake light circuit, headlight circuit go screwey.
In's in those two circuits.  Don't go blaming anything else or you'll lose track.
I'd start by y running a new temporary brake light circuit completely independant.
If everything's hunky-dory, then that's the problem.
 
And so on...
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 09:52:13 AM
Copy that, Commando. And thanks for the reply!!! I figured it was a short of some kind. I just wasn't sure if this wasn't a symptom of a familiar mopar-related issue.

In trying to figure this out by reading other posts, I came across CBarge's "MAd Wiring" article about bypassing the Ammeter and bulkhead connection. Do you or anyone else have thoughts on this.

As soon as time allows, I'll try your suggestion, Commando. Thanks again!

Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 01:47:09 PM
*****   UPDATE   *****

Had to move the Fury a bit today and noticed that the ammeter needle now moves up to the first line towards the Charge side when the engine revs are increased (1,500 RPM approx). This is a new condition.

Could this be because we cleaned the bulkhead connections?


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 02, 2009, 03:25:04 PM
I would suspect the headlamp switch.
Why?
Power going to the brake light switch is fed by the headlamp switch. 
Another trouble spot can be the turn signal switch.
And last spot to check is the dash light dimmer switch.Which is more common to fail and it is also fed by the headlamp switch.
Between the three of them,if there is a bad ground,juice will find a source to feed from causing a draw and short.
Double check the ground wire for the headlights.It is usually bolted to the rad core support.If it is rusty,clean 'er up.
Check ground strap at steering column.
 
Now,as for the ammeter guage,yes,after cleaning the bulkhead it now works like it should-based on your description.
Yes,the ammeter guage itself does draw a lot of power and is famous for turning drivers into pedestrians.
Do the MAd conversion or just add a wire with a fusible link between the BATT stud of the alternator to the BATT stud of the starter relay.Done in 10 minutes,cheap and no more dash meltdowns.  
Why?
CBarge2009-05-02 21:00:48
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 04:14:55 PM
CBarge,
You ROCK!!!!

BTW, I loved the video clips! I'm still not clear on the entire procedure, but I'll get it.

Thank you!
Your ol' Uncle Hulka


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2009, 05:15:30 PM
Woah you bunch of rocket scientists (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
You guys missed some points.
 
Step on brake, lights go out  (Stop Lights are fused)
Headlights have a circuit breaker
Release the brake they come back on.
Jon moved wires under the dash and things changed. . .
 
It's simple.  The brake pedel is rubbing against the harness under the dash.  It's probably hitting the return wire to the battery from the ammeter.
 
Hulk. . You have a potential fire on your hands.  Disconnect the battery and get under there again and look.
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 02:55:42 AM

Great advice, Polaraco, and I appreciate it! Makes perfect sense.

But......

That was actually my first thought that night. A mechanical cause to the problem. Jon looked around under there and didn't see any areas of contact. Additionally (again, if memory serves) I thought he disconnected the brake switch and the problem stopped. I could be wrong about this. We tried so many different things that night it's tough to remember.

I'll talk to Jon today (if not tomorrow at work) and rehash everything we tried and their results.

Regardless, I will disconnect the battery this morning.

Thank you all for your help and advice. CBarge, I think I am going to perform your improvements as well, but not today. The Honey-Do list is getting pretty fearsome! ;)



Uncle Hulka2009-05-03 10:53:47
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 05:57:52 AM
*****   UPDATE   *****

Just got off the phone with Jon and he confirmed that when we unplugged the brake switch, the drain stopped.


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 03, 2009, 06:41:14 AM
So,in theory the brake light switch is feeding off something else.
Look at the FSM,it shows the brake light switch is hot from the headlight switch.
BTW,just remembered..Check all the bulb sockets in the taillights.They provide ground to BOTH the brake and turn signal light bulbs. 
I do not mean to send you all over the car but I am tyring to rule out all possiblities.
 
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 06:49:19 AM
Then there has to be a serious short in the brake lights and it's being fed after the fuse.
 
The brake lights don't get fed through the head light system.  The fuse should be blowing unless you have a monster in  there.  The fact that things improved when he moved wireing around is a clue.
 
Tell you what. . . Take the tail light bulbs out., all of them and see what happens.
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 08:43:24 AM
Great insight, guys. I would've thought a drain this severe would've popped a fuse.

I will remove the bulbs one at a time and note any changes. Sadly, can't do it today.

This is a puzzler. Also why I dread electrical problems like this. You can get dragged into any place in the car to track down the cause. For me it's worse, because I don't fit under my dash too well.

I know I'll be pulling the instrument panel out soon. Hope that's not too big of a job. The FSM documents it pretty thoroughly, but you never know. A good time to replace the AM radio with a correct AM/FM I picked up last year. I have an AM/8-track, but it needs a belt and I haven't found one yet.


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 03, 2009, 08:52:43 AM
[/QUOTE]
Large O-ring from a plumbing supply house
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 09:07:54 AM

Great idea, but it's supposed to be a flat belt (there's no groove on the flywheel to keep it in place). Do you think this might still work?
Uncle Hulka2009-05-03 14:28:31
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 10:09:29 AM
Quote from: CBarge
So,in theory the brake light switch is feeding off something else.
Look at the FSM,it shows the brake light switch is hot from the headlight switch.
BTW,just remembered..Check all the bulb sockets in the taillights.They provide ground to BOTH the brake and turn signal light bulbs. 
I do not mean to send you all over the car but I am tyring to rule out all possiblities.
 
True, but that's external of the switch.  The only other place it can be is in the turn signal switch.  But that would pop fuses.  Remember the brakes lights go through the signal switch.  But that doesn't make any sense either.  The turn signals work.  The ignition doesn't run up there and the column isn't lit by the head light switch.  It sounds like a dead short from wires rubbing more than anything.  Remember, the headlights have a cirsuit breaker so they would recover where a brakes lights would just blow a fuse.  Something is tugging on something somewhere.  It's the heavy discharge that is the kicker.  Even bad grounds won't do that.
 
 
POLARACO2009-05-03 15:10:35
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 10:11:43 AM
Hulka
 
Does the engine die when that happens?  Or just load up from the alternator working?
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 02:42:03 PM
No, it doesn't die, but there is a definite change in the engine when it happens. When we returned to the barn after the test run (see 1st post) it got so bad that when I put on the turn signal and hit the brakes to turn into the driveway, the headlights cut out and the blinker stopped until I took my foot of the pedal.

What do these clues point to?

Also want you to know that since cleaning the bulkhead connectors, not only does the ammeter show a healthy charge, but the blinkers blink faster. Didn't realize how lazy they were blinking before. Amazing what the proper voltage level can do to a car, eh?

BTW, the battery is now disconnected.

Thanks for the advice guys!

Uncle Hulka




Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2009, 04:46:37 PM
Obviously has to be a fault in the wiring somewhere. 
You said you disconnected the brake light switch?
 
What happens with the headlights off?  Parking lights?
 
2 + 2 isn't equaling 5 yet
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2009, 10:42:43 AM
Steve
 
Where are you in Conn?  Maybe you are close enough I can take a ride up there easily.  Connecticut is only about 45 minutes from me.  But from there. . . ..
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2009, 09:03:33 AM
*****   UPDATE   *****

Jon and I have been going over the wiring diagram for the SF and we believe we have identified the best place to investigate the cause of the problem.

There is one location that has commonality between all the various symptoms. I won't go into too much detail, but it goes something like this:

1) There is a wire (R6-12-BK) from the BAT output of the alternator to Bulkhead connector P.

2) Under the dash, There is a wire (R6-12-BK) from Bulkhead connector P that goes to a 5-wire splice.

3) From that splice the remaining 4 wire are as follows:
One wire (R6A-12BK) goes to the input side of the Ammeter.
One wire (J1-12R) goes to the Ignition switch.
One wire (L1-16BK) goes to the Headlamp switch.
One wire (Q3-12R) provides voltage for the Stop Light Switch (via fused output D3-18P).

4) A wire (A1-12R) runs from the Output side of the Ammeter to Bulkhead connector J (NOTE: J is the connector that I mentioned looked a little "Charred" earlier in this thread).

Given this layout, it would appear that a good starting point would be to look at the 5-wire splice and the wire to Bulkhead connector P. Where exactly is this link located?

As I said before, I also plan to run an appropriately sized wire from the alternator BAT to the starter relay Lug B. Is there a typical sized alternator used on these cars. I don't have any high-current options (Power windows, Power seat, A/C, etc.) so any idea max amp output? I just want to size this wire and the fusible link appropriately. I'm thinking 10 gage wire with a 14 gage fusible link would be in the ballpark, but I want it to be right.

I also plan to investigate the connections at the back of the Ammeter. I might bypass it, but I shouldn't have to if I run the wire from the Alternator to the Starter Relay stud as mentioned earlier.

If anyone has any thoughts, I would welcome other opinions.

Thanks,
Hulka

Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2009, 12:07:21 PM
The fact it's NOT blowing the brake light fuse is a clue for me.
 
That splice you are talking about is in the vicinity of the brake pedal arm, which is what I am suspecting is causing this. 
 
When you were poking around the harness, moving things around, you said things changed.  It may be rubbing against a lighting wire.  I assume nothing happens when the lights are off?  Look all the way up to the pivot bolt up high.  I don't think the rear harness goes that way.  I think it goes straight down and left.  Could be the part of the front heqad light harness going towards the bulkhead connector.  Been a long time since I have been under one of those. . .   Although, the 65 is very soon
 
POLARACO2009-05-07 17:13:11
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2009, 01:25:46 PM
Hi Polaraco,

No, the problem exists regardless of whether the headlights are on or off. I think when we solve this problem, some of the other problems I've had that I thought were unrelated will be resolved as well. For example. Going all the way back to my earliest posts, remember the issue I had when I would come to a stop? The car would run rough and sometimes stall. The low voltage condition you folks suggested is possibly related. I solved that problem by solving the symptom, not the CAUSE of the problem. I just rewired the ignition circuit. Symptom solved, problem remains!

Friday, I hope to have another gearhead friend over to get under the dash. I'd like to pull the instrument bezel and instrument cluster and really investigate the under dash wiring ESPECIALLY the ammeter!

How's that sound to you guys?


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2009, 04:23:22 AM
*****   UPDATE   *****

Last night I started my investigations. Following the FSM procedure fro instrument removal, I:

1) Removed the instrument lighting panel and placed it on top of the dash.

2) Removed the instrument bezel.

3) Removed the 4 screws holding the panel where the two vent controls are located under the steering column. This allows access to the shift indicator linkage.

Unfortunately, this is as far as I was able to get. The next step requires the disconnection of the speedometer cable. I just couldn't get to it. I could locate the cable, and could just barely touch the connector with the tip of my finger, but I was unable to disconnect it.

This is not a show-stopper. I just have to wait until I can get someone with smaller hands up there.

While I have the dash disassembled, I thought this might be a good time to install an original AM/FM radio I've been holding onto for about a year.

One other thing I've decided has to be addressed is the dash bezel itself. It in pretty poor shape. I want to repair the cracks and repaint it, but I've never restored anything like this before. Anyone have any advice, especially on reverse painting all the words, proper color shades, etc.?

OR does anyone have a good 67-68 fury bezel they want to sell? ;)

Thanks everyone!
Uncle Hulka


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2009, 05:59:49 AM
There is usually enoug slack in the cable you can pull through the fire wall.  Then you can reach it from the top
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2009, 08:14:11 AM
Thanks, Polaraco! I'll try that and let you know how that works.



Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 11, 2009, 04:04:18 PM
*****   UPDATE   *****

OK, at lunch today, Jon and I split from work and headed to the barn (a fringe benefit to living 3 miles from work).

We got the the instrument panel off and quickly found a definite problem and the possible cause. The output side of the Ammeter, as well as the multiple wires connected to this stud, is charred. The stud itself is loose and undoubtedly the cause of high-current arc-ing.

I brought the ammeter back to work and when time allowed, we inspected it more thoroughly. We decided to silver solder both of the lugs onto their respective contact pads (for lack of a better name). This will prevent the studs from loosening again and thus eliminate that as a potential cause of future high-resistance.

I was happy to find this problem (and commensurate fire risk), but I'm not convinced that it is the sole problem. I am still going to perform the wiring modifications I outlined previously.

So that's where I am right now;

Bezel in desperate need of restoration.
Ammeter in need of repair.
Ring terminals in need of repair (from charring).
Clock in need of a knob and repair (probably won't get to that this time around).

I still have the AM/FM radio to install also.

(whew)


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 11, 2009, 04:28:29 PM
MMMMM   Maybe. . .
 
Was the harness close to the brake pedal?
 
That must be the distribution point for the battery accessories, like the lights.  It could have just been a simple thing of the head lights loosing their connection with the power when you applied the pedal. . . .  Can't rule it out. . .
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2009, 02:16:20 AM

Good point and worth investigating. I'll check for any loose connections at all the switches. Thanks for that suggestion.

ALSO, the Ammeter studs have been silver soldered and are now extremely stable. These puppies aren't coming loose, that's for sure. I'm not sure I'm going to re-connect it, but I know if I do, it is better now than it was when it was new.

Uncle Hulka2009-05-12 17:21:55
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 16, 2009, 06:33:37 PM
*****   UPDATE   *****

Great day today! Jon and I identified and resolved several wiring issues. they all are a result of a previous "tech" who didn't have the slightest clue as to proper electrical wiring techniques. I mean, it's no small miracle that 1) the car operated as well as it did, and 2) that it didn't burn up!

Also was able to test the AM/FM radio and YES, it works great! I bought the radio untested so I was a little concerned  about whether it worked or not.

Also removed the dashlight dimmer switch. It never worked properly and after seeing its condition, I'm not surprised. I cleaned it up with some battery terminal cleaner foaming spray I had and it worked like a charm. Flushed it with water per instructions, carefully blew it dry with compressed air, oiled it in all the right places and it works like new.

Also replaced all the dash lamps. I also installed a new high beam dimmer switch. I thought the original switch had failed because all of a sudden switching to high beam would pin the ammeter to Discharge. Condition continued after new switch was installed. This led us to discover that the true cause was caused by the afore mentioned electronic wizard. Oh well, now I have a spare dimmer switch.

It amazing how much the car like its new 12V diet. Everything seems to function so much better than before (no surprise, eh?).

It's not all buttoned up yet since the radio still has to be installed (the wires on the AM/FM radio are hacked pretty badly) and I want to make sure we didn't miss any of Mr.Wizard's electronic booby traps.

Well, that's all I have for right now. It's late, it was a long day and I'm tired.....

......but I'm one day closer to done.

Hulka


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 17, 2009, 03:32:35 AM
And that's what this hobby's all about.
Good job. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2009, 10:44:01 AM
People throw those dimmers out thinking they are bad all the time.  Not much to go wrong there.
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
I believe it. A pretty simple switch......but a 41 year old simple switch nevertheless.

Oh well, spare's are good things to have.

The overall progress made that day has more than made up for anything as small as this particular misdiagnosis.

The weather here may have been cloudy and drizzly today, but all I saw were blue skies and sunshine!


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2009, 01:48:03 PM
Glad someone did compared to what I went through last night. . . .
 
Do you have any idea what was causing the headlight problem?
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 17, 2009, 03:15:36 PM
So,you did not go into detail what ws wrong --or what the previous "electrical wizard" tried to repair.
What was the culprit of the problem??????
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 02:59:25 AM
Sorry about being skimpy on details. Evidently Mr.Wizard wanted to add something (I'm guessing a CB radio) to the car. In his search for a power source, Prof.Tesla had a brilliant idea. Instead of running a dedicated, switched and properly fused wire for power, he decided it would be so much better to splice into an existing power wire. Ahh, but Dr.Faraday not only lacked common sense but he also lacked a wiring diagram for his car. So he just started removing insulation (exposing bare wire) from several different candidates. Some were rejected while others were deemed worthy. By the way, his idea of 'splicing' into a circuit consisted of exposing bare wire, wrapping the additional device's power wire around it and then a quick loop of electrical tape. The rejected candidates were left with their bare wire exposed.

When he eventually removed the CB and some other added device, he was nice enough to leave the 'hot' wires dangling free under the dash. I'm lucky that Reddi Kilowatt's electrical technique didn't cause a serious fire!!!! Oh, did I mention the piece of threaded rod used to hold a 3rd wire into a fuse clip?

I am happy to report that where as the input side of the ballast resistor was previously only showing 8V, it is now showing 12V (8V output). The car's electrical system sent me a case of beer in appreciation. The card read "Thanks for everything! I've been on an 8V diet for so long I forgot what 12V tasted like!"

I thought that was a nice gesture.

Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 18, 2009, 04:16:28 AM
You are getting waaaay to intimate with your car. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 08:26:26 AM
GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
 
Comeon Steve. . . .  What was the problem with the brake lights? 
 
I'm too old for suspense. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 01:04:36 PM

The low voltage condition throughout the car was essentially the cause. The brakes were the straw that broke the camels back. right now the dash lights just flicker a teensy bit when the brakes lights come on. They don't dim, just the single flicker. I assume the voltage regulator then kicks in and all is right with the world.

*****   UPDATE   *****

ARRGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

At lunch, Jon and I hit the barn intending to install the AM/FM radio. While removing a connector from the (original) sash speaker, the contact tab came right off the speaker. We removed the speaker  and after seeing the condition of the paper, I didn't feel so bad.

Now I'm off to order a new 4 x 10 speaker. I found a guy on ebay selling an exact replacement for my speaker. Here is the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-Dodge-Plymouth-4-x-10-Speaker-A-B-C-E-Body-Cuda_W0QQitemZ230334395088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a0fff2d0&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1205|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Hope posting a link doesn't violate the rules here. I'll let everyone know how it works. I actually called and spoke with a man named Tom who was very helpful. Even though I called 3:30 PM their time (Olympia, WA), he said he would make sure it got shipped today so I could get it before the weekend. Nice guy.

So another aged component gets replaced. Oh well, the old speaker sounded like crap before.
Uncle Hulka2009-05-18 18:49:27
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 02:05:41 PM
*****  UPDATE   *****

I just received email confirmation (with tracking number) that my speaker had been shipped! they also had a link to their website (I thought they were just ebay'ers). Well color me surprised because they are actually a restoration business specializing in MOPARS!!!

Here is their link:
www.rocketresto.com

I guess it's safe to assume they know if this speaker will fit and work with my stock radio. The speaker is 4 and 8 ohm and was a whole lot less expensive than some other 4 x 10 I found.

Will, of course, keep the group posted.



Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 02:36:31 PM
I hope they gave you an upgraded cone with a foam flex ring in it.  It will sound allot better especially with those older FM radios.
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2009, 02:44:34 PM

I don't know, Polaraco. But Tom told me they install these speakers in their customers cars as well as his on '67 Fury III. I also see that Galen recommends their services on his site. I was impressed with the restoration pictures on their web page.
Uncle Hulka2009-05-18 20:32:41
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on May 20, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
*****   UPDATE  *****

The speaker from Rocket Restorations arrived today! WOW, talk about fast!!! I ordered it Monday and it's here 2-days later.......from the other side of the country!

The speaker sounds so much better than my crappy old original. Of course the old speaker was torn 7 ways from Tuesday.

Ran out of time tonight, but all I have to do is finish buttoning up the dash and I should be ready for a bit of cruising, thanks in large part to you guys!

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 10, 2009, 03:43:12 PM
Just a quick update. I've had a chance to drive the SF for a few miles over the last few weeks and I've got to share my experiences with those of you who have helped me so much.

This car is just a pleasure to drive! I rides so smoothly over even the rough country roads in my town. I can't tell you what a great feeling it is to drive down the road on a beautiful, sunny day with the top down, classic oldies playing over the stock AM/FM radio through a new speaker. All this combined with the sound of the 440HP mill purring quietly in the background patiently waiting for me to exercise my right foot. Sadly, until I am done setting up the mechanical and vacuum advance characteristics, I am not able to realize her full potential, but soon, my friends, very soon........

No issues to report regarding the electrical system. Everything seems to be working perfectly. The charging system is doing its thing perfectly. The ignition system works great. After replacing the 160° thermostat with the correct 180° thermostat, the cooling system is working as designed for the first time since I bought the car. The brakes work fine (for 4-wheel manual drum brakes) and the car doesn't pull to one side or the other.

The transmission is still causing me grief. Under any acceleration, I experience runaway with both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Once it's in gear it feels better and pulls hard, but I have to let off the accelerator pedal at the shift points or else the trans slips badly, causing the engine to rev up. Until I figure it out, I'll just have to exercise some self-discipline and keep my foot out of it.

I've said it before, but I want to express my deepest appreciation to all of those who have given me such fantastic advice, guidance and support in my efforts to get this car to a state of reliability. I am not blind to the fact that without you guys, my Sport Fury would not be in the condition it is right now.

On that note, I want to close by saying "Thank You" to my friend Jon. He has been an incredible friend throughout this process. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know about cars and he is not only willing to share his knowledge and experience, but also his valuable time. He has been right there, turning wrenches and diving in and solving whatever issue we were facing. I can not say enough about the friendship he has demonstrated in helping me make this car drivable. I will never be able to repay him for his generosity, but he will never have to look for a garage in which to work on his cars. My tools and equipment are his to use at will.

My thanks to you all, gang. You rock!


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 10, 2009, 03:48:07 PM
Yes  Thank you Jon
 
Have you done a trans service on it yet?  If not, plan on adjusting the bands and see if that is the problem.  Could be the bands are way too loose.  It also could be the trans filter is plugged up.
 
Tell us what the trans fluid looks and smells like.
 
I'm not the greatest trans diagnoser. . . but I do know that's a good start.
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 10, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
Hey Polaraco!

Yes, Jon and I did a trans service a couple months ago. We drained the fluid from the trans and torque converter, installed a new filter and adjusted the bands using a process involving tightening the bands to the point where I could not turn the drive shaft by hand. This method was purported to be more accurate, but this time we'll do it as outlined in the FSM. We also adjusted the throttle linkage.

Did I screw something up?


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 10, 2009, 05:40:05 PM
I dunno!  Was it worse after or before?
 
Was there allot of crap in the filter?
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 11, 2009, 07:50:32 AM
The filter looked pretty good and the fluid had a normal color and smell. I didn't really drive it that much before so I can't accurately compare before and after. I performed the fluid/filter change to 'reset the clock' for future scheduled maintenance. There was an issue with the shift points occurring later than were supposed to happen. That turned out to be related to the mangled throttle linkage. Jon and I straightened the bent linkage rods and followed the FSM adjustment procedure.

Just thinking out loud here, but I remember wondering how that rod got bent so out of shape in the first place. But soon the repair and adjustment procedure required my attention and I hadn't thought about it since. Now I am wondering if the rod was deliberately in an effort to address the 'runaway' shift behavior.......

Anyone have a thought about this? BTW, the vertical rod between the engine and trans was the one that had been bent.

Thanks!
Hulka

Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 11, 2009, 09:13:00 AM
One of the things that can cause shifting like you speak of is it's not completely in Drive.  Wiggle the column selector up and down slightly and see if it changes.
 
Such a simple thing can be so criticle
Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Steve on June 11, 2009, 10:39:51 AM
Hmmnnnnnn....... There does seem to be quite a bit of play in the shifter (column shift). I'll have to look into this, although it seem too consistent to be caused by this....but I've been wrong before!

Thanks, Polaraco!

Hulka


Title: Serious Brake Circuit Problem
Post by: Rich on June 14, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Make sure that the kick down linkage is adjusted properly: it also controls the line pressure in the valve body and therefore shift quality. With the carb at WOT the horizontal kick down rod should go far enough back to push the vertical rod down far enough to push the bell crank at the trans all the way back.  If your rods were bent then this is probably what the problem is.  This may require lots of adjusting on both the horizontal and vertical rods to get them back in the proper alignment.