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Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Robert Rottman on March 12, 2009, 04:51:39 PM

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 12, 2009, 04:51:39 PM
I took my 69 Fury out tonight and about 5 miles down the road I looked down at the temp. gauge and it was all the way up to H! I immediately pulled the car over and shut her down. After letting her cool down about 15 minutes, I slowly unscrewed the radiator cap...no hissing, no steam no nothing...I couldn't understand where the antifreeze went?...I've seen nothing on the garage floor...so I checked the oil....there's where it went. The oil was quite a ways up on the dipstick and milky looking. Obviosly the antifreeze is getting into the crankcase. After I drain the oil, should I check the torque on the head bolts and intake manifold bolts or is that a lost cause by now? How do I know where the internal leak is? Some history on the car/motor. It's a 318 with 85,000 miles...The motor was removed, valve covers, heads, intake, oil pan, water pump, timing cover were all removed, cleaned, repainted and reassembled with new seals /gaskets in 2005. She's run very well ever since though.....I've heard antifreeze in the crankcase rusts/ruins bearings....Should the motor be rebuilt now? Any ideas, please reply. Thanks, Bob 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Ken on March 12, 2009, 05:06:09 PM
The  engine should be yanked out and torn down if you can afford it, 'cause there bearings ARE toast. That's my thought.  Sorry to hear the bad news.

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 12, 2009, 05:11:28 PM
Oh Mannn  Bill
 
OK  My money is on a head gasket.  The heads were off the car.  It's possible it was either a bad gasket or was not torqued properly in the first place.  Retorquing isn't going to do amything for you now.
 
You may have  done some damage to the bearings, so it's premature to call that.  I would pull the heads off and look for the leak in the gaskets.  Change the oil twice afterwards after about 100 miles.  That will suck out all the condensation.  In the mean time, take the filler cap off and pull the PVC.  Put a small heater under the engine to heat it up and get the water out as much as you can.  You need to drain the crankcase and leave the plug out as well.
 
that vintage 318 is not known for cracking
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Ken on March 12, 2009, 05:25:16 PM
Steve, he MIGHT get lucky, but I doubt it. The coolant getting into the oil pan means the oil was contaminated, and it changed the lubricant so that it was no longer able to be the protective layer between the crank and the bearings.

By the time the temp gauge shot up, the bearings were already hit by the coolant, and now they are contaminated.

Granted, I ain't no en-jin-eer, but I have been through auto tech, and I am somewhat familiar with engines.  I wouldn't screw around with draining an engine, use a heater to try and make coolant evaporate, and hope that 2 oil changes would make things OK.  I mean, what if the pump sucked some of that stuff and sent it to the valvetrain?  And what acids were created when the hot coolant mixed with the hot oil?

Just my 2 cents.


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 12, 2009, 05:44:01 PM
Ain't no point discussing anything until the heads are pulled....

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 12, 2009, 05:51:53 PM
Ditto on the head gasket.
Permanent engine damage? 318?
Probably not without seeing it for myself.
C'mon we are not dealing with late model high tolerance soft multi-type alloy junk here.
I had seen worse things happen to 318's personally and through my shop and all survived the torture.
M body 318's were famous for head gaskets or cracked heads.None in our shop had to be rebuilt or replaced.
318's are more forgiving.
My Dad had a 72 D200 we used for firewood.After years of hard hauling and occasional overheat, the crank would move a total of 1/4" side to side.
It still ran and hauled a cord and a half of wood.True story. 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 12, 2009, 07:06:33 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
He didn't drive it that far. . so my guess is it'll be OK. . .Not perfect, but OK.  It depends on what he wants to do.  I went a long way on a blown head gasket and rant he car another 4 years after that.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 12, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
My 318 in the Cordoba seized solid with a bang due to a clogged oil pickup, so that's got to come out....oil pan off, oil pump cleaned out, dump kerosene down through the valve covers to wash everything down. Once everything is clean, you can pull a couple of bearing caps and see what's what.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 02:15:49 AM
Hey guys,
 
I was thinking....before I remove each head I should check and see if each bolt is torqued to the proper spec....I should have checked the torque on each bolt myself after 100 miles or so back in 2006 after this engine was put back together!  Right?
 
Now...if I pull the heads and find no leak...then the only other place to look is the intake manifold. There's absolutely no other possible source for a leak. Is this correct?
 
Thank you all for your fast attention and advice. I'm really bummed about this. Bad car to happen to...this one is mint...engine compartment clean enough to eat off of...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif) I'm thinking too...with my bad back...I'll have to take this somewhere to get it fixed especially if it's real bad....I can just imagine the carelessness...The leaning over the fenders..scratches...dings...Oh I can't take it (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) Must think of something else(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
 
furyfever2009-03-13 06:43:54
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 13, 2009, 03:58:26 AM

Quote from: furyfever
Must think of something else....
Sell it to me for 1000 bucks...  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/PlumGrin.gif)

Load'er up, Steve.

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 04:03:01 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
furyfever2009-03-13 09:34:34
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 13, 2009, 08:14:25 AM
"Testing an automobile engine for a blown head gasket is pretty
straightforward.  The first check is to see if there are combustion gasses
getting into the cooling system.  Take a sample of the coolant and go to the
local radiator shop and request that they analyze the coolant for the presence
of hydrocarbons.  If they are present then it is most likely that you have a
blown head gasket.
Another check is to look at the oil of a warmed up engine.  The
antifreeze in the oil will whip it up into a frothy brown mixture that looks
like a milk shake.  If it looks like chocolate mousse then you probably have a
blown head gasket.
Another check is to fill the cooling system to the brim and remove
the radiator cap.  Do this when the engine is cool.  Start the engine and race
it.  If there is a compression leak and the gasses are going into the cooling
jacket then the gasses will displace the coolant.  Since the cap is off the
coolant will be pushed out of the radiator.  You probably have a blown head
gasket.
OK, so we are pretty sure there is a blown head gasket and if we
have a straight cylinder engine then there is only one head to remove, but what
if it is a V-8 or V-6?  How can you isolate the cylinder that is leaking?
Remove all the spark plugs.  Get a cooling system pressure tester and pressurize
the cooling system to specification, normally about 20 PSI.  Leave the system
pressurized for a few hours.  Now lay down some clean paper towel along the
cylinder heads where the spark plugs were.  Crank the engine over for a few
seconds.  Since the spark plugs are not in place any antifreeze that leaked into
the cylinder will be blown out onto the clean paper towel.  Examine the paper
towel for the telltale signs of antifreeze and you will be able to tell which is
the guilty cylinder.
You can also look at the condition of the spark plugs.  Any spark
plug that looks different from the rest should be suspect.  Of course if you can
see antifreeze on a plug then you know that is the bad guy.  If the plug looks
cleaner than the rest or has a white powder on it then suspect that one.
Most blown head gaskets will require a new gasket be installed.
There are very few which will be fixed by addition of a cooling system sealer -
you can try it, but be prepared to spring for the big bucks and have the gasket
replaced."

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 10:33:54 AM
Thanks Stitch....That will help me diagnose where the leak is. Maybe I'll get to check the plugs this weekend too. I don't have a pressure tester but maybe there will be a plug that "stands out". I hope to drain out all the oil/antifreeze "milkshake" too. I didn't say this earlier but the milkshake level on the dipstick was disturbingly high up! Where the normal full oil level is about 1" from the bottom....the milkshake level was about 4-5" up! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)Many I've talked to here at work today say "rebuild it" You'll only have a worse problem down the road..like a spun bearing which will be way more problems than I even have now....so...I just don't know. I'm just a big bummer today.
 
Thanks for the reply...I appreciate it.
 
Bob 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: firedome on March 13, 2009, 12:05:14 PM
I'd say head gasket too, BUT... shouldnt he have seen major white smoke
out the tailpipe, burning coolant in the combustion chamber? Happened
to me once on a '65 Olds 350 and it made enough white smoke to
camouflage a battleship squadron... and that was with a blown gasket on
just one of the heads... eh?

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: firedome on March 13, 2009, 12:06:44 PM
hmmm.... maybe "tonight" is a clue to why any smoke may not have been seen...

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2009, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: firedome
I'd say head gasket too, BUT... shouldnt he have seen major white smoke out the tailpipe, burning coolant in the combustion chamber? Happened to me once on a '65 Olds 350 and it made enough white smoke to camouflage a battleship squadron... and that was with a blown gasket on just one of the heads... eh?
 
Not necessarily
 
The head gasket can easily push antifreeze into the oil too.  It all depends on where the leak is in the gasket
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: firedome on March 13, 2009, 01:35:20 PM
That makes sense. Unfortunately I had the smokescreen AND had the milky oil going on too. 

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 02:30:43 PM
Hey guys...I'm draining the crankcase right now...before I did....I measured 7"...The brown milkshake on the dipstick....normal full is about 1"...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)I unscrewed the oil plug just a little....pure antifreeze came out...filled up the whole oil pan...now I'm going to take the plug right out and get the milkshake out....I took all 8 plugs out...They all look the same..brown reddish color.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2009, 03:56:42 PM
The plugs are the same because it wasn't burning off the antifreeze.  pressure was pushing it into the crankcase.  Or you have, shutter the thought, a crack
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 13, 2009, 04:12:45 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Bob's car has to be seen to be appreciated.
The red on red combo (with black vinyl top) is stunning and retina searing.
His engine bay is soo clean that if you ate from the pie tin you would only make it dirty.LOL!!
A classy car that does not need a 500HP big block to stand out from the rest.
 
Bob,get some mover's blankets to protect them thar red hot fenders!
It might be easier to pull the motor and work on it on an engine stand to save your back compared to hunching over under the hood.
 
His car shown first one on the left at Liverpool 2007 Mopar Madness:
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/IMG_2739.jpg)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 04:32:22 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5001973.jpg)
For what it's worth...Here's some photos...I estimate about a gallon of antifreeze came out of the crankcase and then 7 quarts of brown milkshake. I checked the head torque...4 out of 5 were 95 or more ft. lbs. (spec) on driver side and 3 out of 5 were 95 or more ft.lbs. on passeneger side. The 3 that weren't 95 were close because torque wrench "clicked" shortly after bolts turned...so apparently it's not because of a loose head(s). One of the shops I called to day said don't remove the heads or the intake...because I'll ruin the evidence. If I hire the rebuild out...it sounds like the shop that does it ,will want to find out what failed themselves...Does this make sense? I really would like to find out...Why can't I figure out what failed and tell them? What would you guys do?
 
Bob 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 13, 2009, 04:56:18 PM
If a shop only relies on visual to tell what happened, then they are idiots if they warrantee it!
As a shop, I would send the block out for pressure testing and magnafluxing before the rebuild.  I say go ahead and do an exploratory....maybe it will tell you an obvious tale of what happened and you may get away with a good clean-out and bearing replacement...
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 13, 2009, 04:59:00 PM

Exactly what I've already done myself.  Build or buy your dream engine and THEN  swap it out. No leaning over fenders.  No suffering sacroliiacs.
The thought of rebuilding an engine still in the car scares the hell out of me.
Commando12009-03-13 21:01:41
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2009, 06:51:36 PM
As I have been saying, I have gone further on a bad internal leak on a 318 and the engine survived a long time afterwards.  The bearings finally gave up around 100 K later.
 
So. . . I agree with Bob.  You can't tell what's wrong by looking at it.
 
There is another posibility I forgot about and nobody else has mentioned. .  .
 
A bad intake gasket.  Unlike the Big blocks, the LA intake is wet.  It could be an intake gasket dumping water into the oil.  Since the intake had to come off anyway. . . .  It's a good start.  If you see a gap in the gasket or a place where there are traces of antifreeze  under a gasket, then BINGO!
 
I would get a shop wet/dry vac and suck all that water out of the head valleys..  Change the intake gasket and try it out.  If it fai;ls, it cost you a gasket set.
 
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 13, 2009, 07:30:16 PM
Thankyou Steve...very good thought. I've done an intake manifold before...last summer on my 70. I know what to expect. I'll keep you posted as to what I find out...
 
Bob
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 13, 2009, 07:32:17 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif)
Pull  the intake first.Go from there.
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 13, 2009, 07:37:53 PM
Bob,if it is more than the intake,the Dippy is gassed up on standby.
She is no stranger to the 'North Country",LOL

CBarge2009-03-13 23:40:36
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Butch Houghton on March 14, 2009, 06:13:13 AM
I say it's cracked somewhere.   That much antifreeze I say the bearings are wiped.   I had a fresh motor fill the crankcase up like that in 30 minutes of running time & pulled it down....bearings were toast.  And that was idling.

Hate to say it,  I think you got major problems. I hope it's a gasket but I've got a feeling it is'nt  .   We just had a motor here that had 20K miles on it & pulled for a bigger engine 6 years ago.    Motor was perfectly fine then & we pulled it apart to inspect & put new gaskets in.    Driver-side head developed a crack.  All we can figure is that pulling the head & re-torqueing  one last time put the stress on an already weak spot.

I have seen 2 318's with cracked blocks too,  both still ran fine.

I know it's not what you want but be prepared just in case.

Butch


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Bill Mounteer on March 14, 2009, 11:11:24 AM
Wow Bob, I feel your pain!

I'm afraid I agree with Butch, that much raw antifreeze in the bottom of the pan is not coming from a little gasket blow out, there's a major hole some place.

A blown head gasket will suck antifreeze into the cylinder on the down stroke and you'll see a white exhaust. On the up stroke fuel and possibly some oil will get forced back into the water jacket and you'll see signs of oil in the rad. I doubt its a head gasket.

The intake manifold could be cracked on the underside or one of the manifold to head gaskets could have failed, this type of failure could pour lots of coolant into the valley and straight down to the pan.  If when your engine was last rebuilt,  they shaved the block or the heads and didn't also fit the intake manifold, the manifold may have simply split open.

I'd pull the intake first. If the leak isn't obvious then you need to decide whether to continue pulling parts and risk body damage, or just bite the bullet and pull the engine.

If the block is cracked then you can pick up another 318 or maybe sneak in a 383 or 440. <Grin>



Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 14, 2009, 03:18:13 PM
Bob and I were bouncing back and fourth and based on the pics he sent me, the intake gasket is no good.
So,he will try another set,clean 'er up and go from there.
As Steve mentioned,all that he will be out of pocket is a set of gaskets should he have to tear down the heads.
Let's hope for the best.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
 
CBarge2009-03-14 19:19:45
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 14, 2009, 04:51:54 PM
That's great news!

The oil galleries to the cam and mains need to be blown out with compressed air....hopefully he is set up to do that...


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 14, 2009, 04:53:20 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5001991.jpg)
Here's some of the photos Lea and I were discussing. Since the motor was running well right up until I discovered this problem, I think a $10.00 set of gaskets and a few hours of clean up is a reasonable route to take to see if this ol' 318 can be saved. The more I think about it...I'd rather not sink the $$$ into getting it rebuilt right now. I'd rather put it towards a big block should the need arise.  
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 14, 2009, 05:10:15 PM
This is why I glue all of my gaskets....whether it may have to come apart someday or not....that's what gasket scrapers are for!
Best Holley carb I ever had ran great because I sprayed ALL of it's gaskets with High Tack.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 14, 2009, 05:58:31 PM
Bob
 
The first picture was the one I was talking about
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 15, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
Stitchr...That's what I used on these gaskets "High Tack Spray a Gasket Sealant" by Permatex back in early 2006!! (later my transmission guy found a soft plug leak in the rear of the motor under the trans. that I thought earlier was coming from the rear of the intake...that was the reason for me redoing the intake). Anyway...I used the same stuff on my 70's 318 last summer. It still seems to be ok. I am scratching my head on why this happened. By the way, there is absolutely no evidence of that bright red spray permatex anywhere on either side of the gasket?? Is it antifreeze/oil soluable????? I wouldn't think so! Maybe I didn't spray enough on? I remember the guy at the parts counter telling me "just a light coat on both sides"  Also, I can't remember if I went back after a few times running it and re-torqued all the bolts to 35 ft lbs...Maybe that was it(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)...Before I pulled the intake yesterday, I did find a few bolts on both sides that did take more tightening to get to 35 ft lbs...(just a little)
 
Sheesh, I didn't know this was a science!
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)Bob(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: azblackhemi on March 15, 2009, 06:34:53 AM
One possibility no one mentioned is a hole in the timing chain cover. My 69 Polara with a 318 had a dime size hole corroded in the aluminum timing chain cover right behind the water pump that filled the crankcase with coolant almost instantly. That would also explain why it still ran good. I'll post a pic later
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 06:44:35 AM
Wow
 
I never saw that Chris.  Must have been a bad casting.
 
Bob and I spoke last even.  He went on to explain he had some oil mix, "Brown Goo" drip to the floor from the intake area.
 
That is a good point and something to look for
 
By the way Bob, I was thinking about that inner tube.  It will take forever to pump that up with a rad tester.  Better go to plan B
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: azblackhemi on March 15, 2009, 07:46:11 AM
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/azblackhemi/reesesb-day020.jpg)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: azblackhemi on March 15, 2009, 07:49:16 AM
From what I was told when I found this problem is it does happen from time to time. My guess is a negleted cooling system is probably to blame on mine.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 15, 2009, 07:52:21 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)

I've never seen that before Chris!! The coolant must have been almost like battery acid to eat the aluminum like that.
 
Bob,Just for giggles-- and since the engine is sorta apart--it will only take a few minutes to pop the water pump off to have a peek.
 
Need to rule out any possibilities,IMO.
CBarge2009-03-15 11:53:13
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: azblackhemi on March 15, 2009, 07:55:35 AM
The guy I bought the used timing chain cover from said he's sold a few of them for the same reason. Even the one I bought is pitted but no holes.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 07:58:49 AM
really.
 
Of all the 318's and 360's I have owned, I have never seen that.  Maybe it's an invironmental thing.  Thanks for straighteneing me out. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
Well then.  Bob, looks like we have another possibility for the list.  Learn something new every day
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Butch Houghton on March 15, 2009, 08:02:55 AM
Timing cover,    I'll buy that one too.   Might have a look for sure.   It would certainly dump the antifreee in there.

I've seen a lot of seriously corroded cover's but never a hole,  but I sure have seen a bunch of the aluminum thermostat housing's corroded all the way through.

Butch


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 15, 2009, 09:08:48 AM
Well this would make sense since there was a gallon or so of antifreeze in the oil pan! Would a small trickle from a bad intake gasket do that? I mean...I performed the EXACT same intake manifold removal/cleanup/reinstall procedure on my 70 Ply. last summer and that's ok?...I run the car very little too. You need running pressure for an intake manifold gasket to leak...A hole somewhere like the timing chain cover...no pressure needed. Also...I've had three soft plugs replaced in the last 3 years because they were rusted through. I did one of them myself and I couldn't believe the brown gooey sludge that was behind it! I have a feeling the little old lady that owned her in Pa. for all those years didn't do too much with the cooling system. Oh boy...I think I'm rethinking what to do here. I probably should have her dismantled, hot tanked and rebuilt....Its only money right? (My favorite saying when I'm trying to justify spending on toys) or should I look for a 383 to rebuild....
 
This sure is a (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
A positive note...It sure will take my mind off waiting for MLC to build my 58 Plymouth !
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 10:10:56 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
Phew!  I thought I lived a charmed life.  I was thinking with all the small blocks I've had I have never seen a bad cover.  Maybe it's the water.  Anti-freeze is supposed to prevent that from happening.
 
Bob, it is possible, but based on you finding that "Brown goo" on the floor and seeing the drainage trail on the back of the engine, it very well could be a bad intake gasket too.  For all we know, it could be both.  The only way to be sure is put it back together and pressure test it.
 
 
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Bill Mounteer on March 15, 2009, 10:13:37 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif)


Never seen that sort of hole before, but it sure looks to be the right size to dump lots of raw antifreeze into the pan. Bummer! 

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: glen cyr on March 15, 2009, 12:33:56 PM
I've seen plenty of small block "LA" covers with porosity problems,and awhile back i got one from E-bay,that i threw out because it was so bad!. Old anti-freeze will change to an acid and start eating aluminum quickly if not changed regularly! The newer style anti-freeze has a different formula so you don't have to change it as often,..but it still will happen! I've never seen one corroded that badly,but as you can see....one side was worse of than the other,thus,i'm thinking,...there was a lot of casting sand left in that block,and it was really getting sandblasted from the inside out!. I suspect those intake gaskets myself! Flush the engine a couple of times,new fluids,..some good Fel-Pro paper style gaskets and you don't have much to loose!. If it cooks the bearings,.....I can give you some hint's on how to build a 418" stroker small block to put in there!!
 
Glen
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 15, 2009, 01:19:41 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002011.jpg)
What do you guys think about this? After enjoying a picture perfect afternoon out hiking with my wife, I thought about it, came home and pulled the water pump....Hmmm...I'd say Chris is a genius...thank you...Now what guys...getting deeper and deeeeper now. Lower pulley, harmonic balancer and timing chain cover now? I bet you those bearings aren't much farther in now...
furyfever2009-03-15 18:08:06
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: owatajrkiam
I've seen plenty of small block "LA" covers with porosity problems,and awhile back i got one from E-bay,that i threw out because it was so bad!. Old anti-freeze will change to an acid and start eating aluminum quickly if not changed regularly! The newer style anti-freeze has a different formula so you don't have to change it as often,..but it still will happen! I've never seen one corroded that badly,but as you can see....one side was worse of than the other,thus,i'm thinking,...there was a lot of casting sand left in that block,and it was really getting sandblasted from the inside out!. I suspect those intake gaskets myself! Flush the engine a couple of times,new fluids,..some good Fel-Pro paper style gaskets and you don't have much to loose!. If it cooks the bearings,.....I can give you some hint's on how to build a 418" stroker small block to put in there!!
 
 
Very Very True.  I keep assuming the cooling systems are maintained.  Maybe that's why I never saw one.  The cars I get have been taken care of.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 02:55:06 PM
Guess you need a cover Bob
 
I'm glad Chris brought that up now.  Like I said, you live and learn.
 
Those covers should be pretty easy to find.
 
I was wrong.  (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/banging.gif)
 
POLARACO2009-03-15 18:58:30
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 15, 2009, 02:55:07 PM
Yep,while yer at it new timing chain and gears.
It will end up being a  rebuild,IMO.
I am glad to found that and thanks to Chris for pointing that out.
If you need a used timing cover--and looks like you do-
Call Jack Forkey 315-783-0540 in Clayton,NY.
He has piles of Mopar only parts. 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Ken on March 15, 2009, 03:56:08 PM

Good job with the detective work, guys, even though the bad news is the engine is gonna hafta be torn down (not to say "I told ya so"...but I did)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: glen cyr on March 15, 2009, 05:16:29 PM
The pre-70 cover has the timing numbers on the pass side (http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/pict/2203780670768080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/340-318-MOPAR-STOCK-FRONT-ENGINE-TIMING-COVER_W0QQitemZ220378067076QQihZ012QQcategoryZ46098QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and the 1970 and up has them on the drivers side (http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/2703574924938080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/318-360-DODGE-CHRYSLER-NEW-TIMING-COVER_W0QQitemZ270357492493QQihZ017QQcategoryZ33625QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and there is one Michael Jackson (oddball) one where there is no hump (http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/1203903666798080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-SMALL-BLOCK-TIMING-COVER-1968-YEAR-MODEL_W0QQitemZ120390366679QQihZ002QQcategoryZ140694QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) Make sure you get the correct one!  GREAT investigating guys!!!!!
 
Glen
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 15, 2009, 05:37:35 PM

Quote from: owatajrkiam
and there is one Michael Jackson one where there is no hump.......



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: azblackhemi on March 15, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
It feels pretty good to be on the giving end of tech advice. Usually I'm on the asking for advice end of it. Glad you found the problem.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2009, 07:01:19 PM
If anybody would have the right one, Jack would.
 
Feels good Chris. . .Huh  Thanks (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 15, 2009, 08:02:02 PM
If the motor is wiped,Jack does have a really good running 1969 318.
 Also the 383 in the 65 Town Seedan is a runner as well.
Just in is a running 66 SF 383 4 speed car.Frame rails front and back are crispy.
 
Food for thought
CBarge2009-03-16 00:02:58
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 15, 2009, 09:08:11 PM

Quote from: CBarge
Just in is a running 66 SF 383 4 speed car.Frame rails front and back are crispy.
Grab the pedals, clutch linkage, and the hump.....

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 15, 2009, 09:19:01 PM
...but then that's a whole  different thread....

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 16, 2009, 04:33:12 AM
Quote from: owatajrkiam
The pre-70 cover has the timing numbers on the pass side (http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/pict/2203780670768080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/340-318-MOPAR-STOCK-FRONT-ENGINE-TIMING-COVER_W0QQitemZ220378067076QQihZ012QQcategoryZ46098QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and the 1970 and up has them on the drivers side (http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/2703574924938080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/318-360-DODGE-CHRYSLER-NEW-TIMING-COVER_W0QQitemZ270357492493QQihZ017QQcategoryZ33625QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and there is one Michael Jackson (oddball) one where there is no hump (http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/1203903666798080_1.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-SMALL-BLOCK-TIMING-COVER-1968-YEAR-MODEL_W0QQitemZ120390366679QQihZ002QQcategoryZ140694QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) Make sure you get the correct one!  GREAT investigating guys!!!!!
 
 
Thanks for looking around for me Glen...Man you guys are all fantastic. I feel like I'm really being taken care of here. Looks like the pre-70 cover (the top one) is it! I'll try to get some numbers off mine though to make absolutely sure.....and there's 3 days left to the auction. Anybody know what I should have to pay for one of these?
 
Quote from: CBarge
If the motor is wiped,Jack does have a really good running 1969 318.
 Also the 383 in the 65 Town Seedan is a runner as well.
Just in is a running 66 SF 383 4 speed car.Frame rails front and back are crispy.
 
Food for thought
Tell me guys...would a 383 plop right in there or would there be a lot of mods. involved? Would my trans. be compatible? I have a feeling it wouldn't. I know what a rebuild will cost me if I hire it out...~2k I bet...Not sure I want to spend it on a 318....perhaps I can take my time and do it myself?...keep the cost down while learning how to rebuild an engine? Or I can always buy something that runs good already and swap it out...I guess I should slow down and review all my options...Thanks to all...
 
furyfever2009-03-16 08:40:29
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Ken on March 16, 2009, 05:41:43 AM
Bob, a 383 would fit, but you would need a trans with the big block bell housing and all the related linkage and engine brackets.

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 16, 2009, 07:54:34 AM
Engine wire harness,too.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Butch Houghton on March 16, 2009, 07:55:26 AM

Build it yourself!   You've had the motor out so obviously you can do that,   Dismantling is  the easy part.   Only special tool is a Balancer puller.   You'll  need a Tourque wrench for assembly.  Also a ring compressor & maybe a set of ring pliers to install rings.   The rest is mostly standard hand tools.

Find a good machine shop that can do the Machine work & I took a quick look at Summit just to see what a complete re-build kit costs,   About 360.00 for a Federal - Mogul cast piston kit.  Pistons-rings-bearings-gaskets-oil pump- timing set.   No cam in that kit.  The Forged kit was 609.00 but you don't need forged for a stock 318.  There's probably other kits out there to double-check against.

The Machine work cost is the variable by region,  the last one I got from our guy cost 1150.00 for a 318.   that was Block all done,  Heads done, & a complete Sealed Power kit with all the above plus a cam & lifters.  That kit was 500.00 & it had a double roller timing set too.   We only gave 500.00 for that complete motor because it was a "left behind" & the guy had paid part up front & never came back.  He only wanted what was left on the bill.  Complete fresh engine for 500.00,   can't beast that!

I recommend a FSM & the old HP series book " How to rebuild the Small Block Mopar " for a first timer.   I built my 340 with those back in 85 fror  my first motor.   There might be a better book out now but I still use mine for just a quick reference on stuff.  Plus you've got people here to help with questions.

Be nice to keep the original motor in that car.

Butch

HemiFury2009-03-16 11:57:48
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2009, 02:56:19 PM
Quote
Thanks for looking around for me Glen...Man you guys are all fantastic. I feel like I'm really being taken care of here. Looks like the pre-70 cover (the top one) is it! I'll try to get some numbers off mine though to make absolutely sure.....and there's 3 days left to the auction. Anybody know what I should have to pay for one of these? 
 
Check your mail for the bill. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
I have a buildable 440 here.  It ran when I pulled it.  I also have  a 68 BB Torqueflite trans.
 
If you want to have a second child hood, I can have my builder "HemiJon" build you a real nice motor.  Yer call.
 
Edit:  I had reason to talk to HemiJon anyway so I asked him.  He can make you a real sweet 440 for around 3 Grand.  Long Block.  That's everything.  This guy does engines for the local resto shops and builds those $12,000 engines.  So you can imagine what he can do with a street engine.  I don't want allot of money for this 440. .  I was going to build a street rod with it, but Momma says Nooooooo.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
POLARACO2009-03-16 19:06:24
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 17, 2009, 04:41:12 AM
Had an old friend come into town on Sunday...He helped me get the hood off yesterday...so I know this gooey, busted 318 will be coming out. Sounds like rebuild parts for this motor + block work will be in the neighbor hood of $1500.00 alone...that's with me doing all the work!...Geeesh!...I don't know??...Will have to keep thinking whilest I yank it (the motor). A co-worker friend said he will lend me his engine hoist...
furyfever2009-03-17 11:09:19
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 17, 2009, 11:15:38 AM
Bob,Jack wants $275.00 for the running 69 318.
He actually drove the 69 Sattelite the motor came out of.
Timing covers he has a 69 date code for 25.00
A running 383/727 combo can run you into 800.00 to a grand inclusding related parts for upgrading to big block on your car.
Big blocks do command a more premium compared to small blocks since the B body demand for big block conversions has not declined.
PM me if interested.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 17, 2009, 03:42:00 PM
You know, unless there is bad scoring in the cylinders, or scuffing scratches, all you really need to do is have the crank polished and put in new bearing and an oil pump.  Check the cam bearings out.  You can cut mega bucks that way.  Why fix what isn't broke?  Fob will go allot quicker.  You can wash out the motor just by flipping it over and over and using some solvent.  Diesel fuel, while smelly, will suck up that moisture and is ultimately a lubricant.
 
But if you are kicking the jugs out, then plan on at least a honing and new rings.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 17, 2009, 04:04:30 PM
You guys are totally awesome. Thanks for all the great info. I should get this ol' gooey small block outa this Fury...I don't know though...I have my reservations. I'll take more photos after I get the timing chain cover off. Thanks for all the moral support guys...You are too good to me.
 
furyfever2009-03-21 09:36:22
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 21, 2009, 05:33:22 AM
Took some photos after getting timing chain cover off last night. Notice there's actually two holes in timing chain cover...and a third hole almost through. As far as the chain goes...looks like more than 1/2" slop. Last night on chat...I think consensus was to change upper gear only + chain? Also...I believe proper order of assembly should pan after timing chain cover...Well.....since I now have timing cover off..does this mean I have to take pan off too? I'm trying not to pull motor now...I don't have the technology or help. Can I put timing cover back on with pan in place? Thanks, Bob
 
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002019.jpg)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: firedome on March 21, 2009, 06:38:22 AM
That is amazing!! I would never have thought a casting could get eaten
right through like that!  This place is a world of info!!  So
were those always cast AL, or were they ever made of iron? How about B
blocks like my 58 350?

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 21, 2009, 08:51:18 AM

I talked to my mechanic today....he said new timing chain and both gears, clean everything out really good, put it back together and change the oil twice after running it to operating temperature both times. If it's gonna live it will live...if it isn't then there's not much more you can do without the lower end coming apart.
 The engine will tell you which way it's gonna be....watch oil pressure and temps real closely and listen for any weird noises....also it's a good idea to run straight water for these test runs....why have antifreeze poison the oil all over again? Water will be easier to remove if something else goes wrong. Once you're finished you can add the glycol.
These engines are pretty tough and he sees a LOT of them as a few of his fleet customers run Dodge smallblocks in their vans and trucks. That water pump corrosion has happened to them as well.


Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 21, 2009, 07:09:16 PM
Enough slop for me to change the chain and gears.
I always change them out as a complete set.
We are dealing with a Mopar here--not a SBC (small block Chebbie)
Both gears are worn to the chain.Do both gears.
Doing the upper gear only with a new chain is like installing a new cam and re using your old lifters--not smart unless you enjoy doing things twice.
FWIW,it is worth the extra coin to install the Mopar timing chain tensioner.
P007709. It stabilizes timing by reducing slack.
Page 78 in the Mopar Performance catalogue..
http://www.mo-pod.com/pdf/09_Performance_Catalog-120908.pdf (http://www.mo-pod.com/pdf/09_Performance_Catalog-120908.pdf)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 21, 2009, 09:46:08 PM
I never saw that before Lea....isn't it a Magnum only item? If not it looks like a neat part

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 22, 2009, 07:10:08 AM
Can be used on any LA block.
My engine builder swears by them. 
BTW,Bob called me this morning.
I am going to meet him in Clayton,NY.
He is getting a replacment timing cover.
TTFN!!
CBarge2009-03-22 11:15:28
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: glen cyr on March 22, 2009, 12:59:55 PM
I put one of those tensioners on my LA stroker,as they say it helps with harmonics also!. It bolted right in there with just a few tweaks!. It would actually take up all that slack in that 318 chain,as there is quite a bit of tension!. I agree with all of you's about suggesting a complete matched set!. Take a look at that fuel pump eccentric while you are there as i've seen these wear down badly also!. The timing chain gasket set will have a new seal for the timing cover make sure you change that and maybe a new repair sleeve for the damper also! Both come in the same Fel-Pro gasket set at Rock Auto #TCS45284 for $29.00! I'm not sure if there is an installation tool with that,but you can keep the balancer in you're freezer overnight (shrinkage as most guy's can relate to)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) and put the sleeve in the oven at 400 for awhile and that sleeve should slide on with a little TLC!. Good luck!
 
Glen
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 22, 2009, 04:16:40 PM
I thought my sleeve slid on with a little red loctite

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 22, 2009, 06:12:40 PM
My wife Debbie and I decided to take a 2.5 hr. trip up to Jack Forkey's place in Clayton, NY today. This begins the parts aquisition to fix my 69 Fury's "318 w/antifreeze in the oil" problem. Good ol' Leaburn and Gerrie met us there (even with very short notice I might ad). What a pleasure to meet Gerrie and spend some quality time with Leaburn! Jack is down to earth, extremely patient, very knowledgable and very fair and is a pleasure to do business with. I highly recommend him to any and all who need parts for their Mopar. His phone number is 315-783-0540  
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002022.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002031.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002032.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002035.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002036.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002037.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002038.jpg)
A lotta fun had here today...back to the dependable Dippy for the ride home!
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002039.jpg)
Furyfever did well today. Here's the new/used replacement  parts for Big Red's 318...Thanks Jack!
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2009, 06:22:19 PM
Leaburn. . .yer gettin a bit pouchy there. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
It's great putting a face to the name.  Pleased to meat you Bob!  Where was Debbie?
 
So what treasure did you buy besides the water pump cover?
 
I saw that 70 Dart Sedan. . . itch itch
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2009, 06:25:07 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002031.jpg)




 
WeeeweeeWeeeweeeWeeeweeeWeeeweeeWeeeweeeWeeeweee
 
It sounds like a Dodge. . .Oh ! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  It's not fuel injected.  I need to poke the pedal once. . .
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2009, 06:26:30 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002038.jpg)

Leaburn with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
 
He keeps going back at that 68 Dodge. ..  Jack is secretly saving it for you
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 22, 2009, 06:47:56 PM
Bob brought up his rotten timing cover just to be sure he got the right one.
Looks like he used up all his shop towels at home..
Bob brought extra pairs of Hanes--but not for in case of an accident.. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/e%20bay%20lisings/300atJacks132.jpg)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 22, 2009, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Leaburn. . .yer gettin a bit pouchy there. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
It's great putting a face to the name.  Pleased to meat you Bob!  Where was Debbie?
 
So what treasure did you buy besides the water pump cover?
 
 
Thanks Steve...glad you appreciate the photos, but none of Debbie today....I don't think today's backdrop was quite her style. You see...I didn't tell her I was taking her to a junkyard! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) She loves the GPS I recently bought her. Immediately after we pulled in there, she feverishly started punching buttons on it and quickly figured out just how to get to the area shopping centers (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif). It would have been a cheap day with out that! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif). Debbie took the photos of us in the Monaco.... then with Gerrie, went shopping.  When Debbie is happy I am happy (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)...I brought home exactly what you see in the very last photo Steve...which is most of what I need to fix my Fury...still have to get timing gear set and intake gaskets.
Also...thanks to Leaburn and Glen for their input on timing chain tensioner...I'm going to consider that retrofit. I also checked my harmonic balancer for wear where seal rides...can't detect any noticeable wear so I don't think I need the sleeve. I tried to open the linky for the tensioner Lea...Not opening though...Will keep trying....Thanks guys, Bob
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 22, 2009, 07:06:36 PM

Quote from: CBarge
Bob brought up his rotten timing cover just to be sure he got the right one.
Looks like he used up all his shop towels at home..
Bob brought extra pairs of Hanes--but not for in case of an accident.. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

MAN...NOW THERE'S BROWN STRIPE IN HIS UNDIES THAT WISK WON'T GET OUT......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

sounds like a fun day!

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: glen cyr on March 22, 2009, 07:11:56 PM
Here's a pic (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/26/images.jpg)
 
Glen
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 22, 2009, 07:17:10 PM
Despite being a bright and sunny day,the wind was freaking cold and strong.
Debbie and Gerri hit off very well.That is good in my book.
What we saved at Jacks the ladies made up for it shopping in town.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
We are looking forward to meeting up again soon.
The Monaco fired up first click of the key.Still thinking..
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/e%20bay%20lisings/300atJacks113.jpg)
 
 
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 22, 2009, 07:36:53 PM
Quote from: CBarge
Bob brought up his rotten timing cover just to be sure he got the right one.
Looks like he used up all his shop towels at home..
Bob brought extra pairs of Hanes--but not for in case of an accident.. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Man o man...that Leaburn is sly...didn't see/hear him take this photo...Doesn't anyone else use their old skivies for shop rags? Sheesh! Debbie even washes 'em before they get sentenced for garage duty! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 22, 2009, 07:50:52 PM
GOTCHYA ..
Or is it gitches (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 22, 2009, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: furyfever
[/QUOTE]
 
R U Sure? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: firedome on March 23, 2009, 05:22:24 AM
Lea - you better jump on that 68 Dodge - I'm only 2 hrs away !





Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on March 31, 2009, 06:29:17 AM
Hey Guys, I bought a new double roller (more expensive) timing chain/2 gear set and installed it...but I'm really dissapointed. I measure 3/8" of slop in the chain now....With the old chain/gear set that I removed, there was about 5/8" of slop. Not much improvement....(~1/4") (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) I checked the Chilton's manual....It says it should be 3/16"! I haven't installed the new cover yet...What should I do?
 
Bob
 
furyfever2009-03-31 11:30:27
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on March 31, 2009, 07:01:24 AM
You will get some slop. . .   It's a given.  3/8 is nothing.  Remember you have to allow for expansion too.  Also, if it was too tight, you'd never get it on.
 
I have to say your other chain wasn't that bad.  I've seen an inch or more.  But you may as well, you're there. . .
 
It's nothing to be upset about Bob.  Perfectly normal
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on March 31, 2009, 03:11:49 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Did not buy the Monaco,yet.MAy have to pass.Must focus on the BoaB.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 15, 2009, 04:58:36 PM
Got the timing chain, timing cover, water pump and the rest of the "front" of the motor back on....
 
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002053.jpg)
 
Now to put the "lid" back on...What do you guys think about these scratches in the intake's sealing surfaces? Has anyone ever seen these before?...What are they from and will they cause leaks?
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002058.jpg)
 
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on April 15, 2009, 05:07:20 PM
I don't think much of the scratches. . But a very thin coat of RTV will give you piece of mind.  I always use the black or orange on engines.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 16, 2009, 03:52:29 AM
Thanks Steve...I've used the Permatex High Tack Spray-a-Gasket Sealant before...on the metal intake gaskets...Is this enough or should I also use the red RTV goop also?. One more question....The cork front and rear gaskets that come in the intake gasket set....Use em or not? The parts guy told me to use the RTV goop in place of them...He said they're too stiff and they just dry out after time anyways...He said a good healthy amount of RTV (front and back) works better...Agree?
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 16, 2009, 02:09:44 PM
Hey Guys...I thought while I had the intake still off...I'd pour some kerosene into my motor and let it sit a while...then drain it all out...hopefully that will flush any remaining brown goo and coolant out. As a test, I poured some kerosene in my valve covers and without even brushing it around it started cutting all the brown goo nicely...I plan to do this again with some cheap oil...before I finish assembling/starting her up too. Now....I filled her up pretty good with about 4 gallons of kerosene...It started dripping off the bell housing after about 3-3.5 gallons...still dripping now...Its also dripping much much slower off the pulley in front...(The pulley on the crankshaft for the belts) Any theories as to how this can be happening?
 
Bob 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on April 16, 2009, 02:54:43 PM
The front seal isn't made to be submerged like it is so that's part of it.  Kero is also less viscous than oil.
 
As far as the cack of the motor. . .Not sure.  You better look for it there.  It's not high enough to be coming from the valve cover or intake.
 
You may want to spin the engine a few turns to flush out the oil galeries too.  The kero is enough of a lubricant for the bearings as long as it's not running. . .  Take the plugs out.
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 16, 2009, 10:15:11 PM
It leaked about a gallon back out and then stopped. Anybody know what's up in back..that would allow an overflow at about 3-3.5 gallons? Must be running down the backside of the engine to be coming off the bell housing cover...This happened the night I brought it home on the flatbed too...had brown goo on the floor the next morning. I thought then it was from the rear intake seal...but apparently it wasn't because the kerosene is not that high up.  
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 26, 2009, 05:06:43 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002094.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002095.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/bigredfury/S5002096.jpg)
And now....She's baaaack...and boy is she ready and raring to go(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Ken on April 26, 2009, 05:37:59 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)  Just like a GOOD Chrysler product should!

Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Leaburn Patey on April 26, 2009, 06:38:22 PM
Finally,she is back to herself.
Hope to see you guys soon.
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Per Therkildsen on April 27, 2009, 07:31:13 AM
Well not that i want to sound like an engineer/wiseguy but i have never heard of people who had their engine taken apart because of a head gasket/water in the oil.
Of course only if people dont drive with it for a long time.
 
Over here we just change the gaskets and putt it together again, and then it will cost you some oil and filters, let it run for half an hour, checking the temp all the time, new oil and filter, then deppending on who you ask change oil and filter after 100 km.
 
 
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2009, 09:43:41 AM
You missed it.  He had a hole in the water pump housing.  He also had an oil leak in the back of the intake.  the engine was loaded with antifreeze and he decided to freshen up the engine at the same time.
 
PAGE JUMPER! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Per Therkildsen on April 27, 2009, 10:48:11 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) Well im sorry, i didnt see there was more pages, but what the H*** somebody had a laugh, including me (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
Couldn't resist it. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
Back to the topic. . .
Title: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
Post by: Robert Rottman on April 28, 2009, 05:48:46 AM
I couldn't resist this Steve....A hearty "Thanks" to you all for helping me out. This looked like a huge problem to me until you guys walked me right through it. An especially big thank you to Leaburn who helped me get a timing cover/gaskets from Jack Forkey in Clayton...very reasonably priced I might add...He even met me there that day!...Another big thank you to both Steve and Leaburn for all the good advice....Both of you..Your time you gave me on the telephone too...and for offering to come right to my house to help me...Wow...That I will never forget....A big thanks to Chris (AZblackhemi) who pointed me right to the source of the antifreeze getting into the crankcase...the timing cover...Thanks to StitcherBob too for a lot of very good advice along the way as well...There's others too...Thank you to you all...Moparfins members...You all make this a great place (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Bob