MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 11:04:15 AM

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 11:04:15 AM
Once again I return to the well of knowledge. I really hope others can learn from everything I'm going through. I know I am.

Last week I replaced the 2.76 open differential and housing (a non original 1969 742) with a 3.23 Sure Grip in a 742 housing (unknown year, but the ring gear has what looks like a 1966 date code stamped on the same line of information that has the gear ratio. Everything I've read says that there are thrust block differences between pre-'65 and '65-up differentials.

Pre-65 differentials can be installed in post-'65 rear ends without any modifications needed IF the pre-'64 diff in question had sure grip. I make that statement because if true, I should've been able to swap in the new diff without any problems.

I have problems.

With both axles installed, I have WAY too much end play in both axles. Assuming that perhaps the right-side axle adjuster might need to be, er, adjusted, I proceeded to turn the adjuster in so I could achieve zero-end play in both axles, as the FSM says. I know that ultimately I need to achieve end-play of between .015 & .023 (from memory as I write this). The problem is that I've turned the adjuster in until it got hard like I ran out of thread. I still have like around .25 inches of end play!!!!!

What the heck am I doing wrong here? I can't figure out where I screwed up! Does the adjuster have infinite adjustment, or did I truly bottom out?

If anyone can help me please let me know what I did wrong.

Thanks guys,
Uncle Hulka
PS - By the way, the car is running awesome! Just turn the key and she fires right to life! I really love this car, even if it will be the death of me.


Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 01:10:23 PM
Up through 1968, they had a 2 piece spacer set up in the diff that was a pain in the tail.  It's kind of hard to explain what it looked like.  It went into the carrier between the two axles in below the splines.   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
 
I can tell you without going any further. . . It's missing. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
I'll see if I can find a pic of what it looks like in one of my manuals and post it.  There may be a repair or replacement retrofit available now.
 
POLARACO2009-02-28 18:10:56
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 02:15:48 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/875Pin.jpg)
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 02:20:18 PM
Try this guy
 

Carl Montoya
JTS Parts & Accessories
5980 Goodwin Rd
Cashmere, WA 98815
www.justdifferentials.com (http://www.justdifferentials.com/)
carl@justdifferentials.com (http://mailto:carl@justdifferentials.com)
509-888-AXLE (2953) ext. 113
866-399-7532 fax
 


Tell him you are a member of Moparfins and Steve Hobby in New Jersey sent you.  I'll send him the link to the picture so he knows right now.
 

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 04:59:43 PM
POLARACO, once again you save my a$$!!! Do I have to disassemble the differential or can this part be inserted without having to do so?

I will contact your friend immediately and get the order going.

Thank you again, my friend. If you find yourself in Connecticut, you won't have to worry about payin' for your beer or soda or whatever you drink!

I'll let you know what I find out.

Uncle Hulka

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 05:17:52 PM
You're going to have to take the carrier back out.
 
I believe there is a upgrade kit for them, which eliminates the hassles.
 
As I said I would, I sent that link to carl with a brief explaination.
 
Yo Carl. . .Membership is Free!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Now Commando1 is looking at changing his gears in a 9"
 
Edit
POLARACO2009-02-28 22:20:13
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 05:26:43 PM
I sent a message to Carl explaining the situation and mentioning your name. I also reminded him about putting specials in the vendor section as you asked. I will let you know if/when I hear from him.

Like I said at the beginning, I learn more and more about this car everyday. Also, 1968 was a pretty screwed up year!


Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 05:28:42 PM
Wait, now I am confused.

If Carl has the piece I'm missing, will I have to disassemble the differential to install it (I know I'll have to drop the carrier).

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 05:42:55 PM

It's a long shot, but could these spacers have fallen out in shipping? I haven't checked the shipping box, but.........maybe?
Uncle Hulka2009-02-28 22:43:27
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2009, 06:50:46 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
I did kind of lead you down a dark road there on a re-read.
 
No you do not have to take the Diff apart to put the pins in.  But you will have to take it out of the housing.
 
It is highly possible they are in the box.  But then again, it's possible they were lost before it was boxed.  Lost out of ignorance. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Chevy guy in a scrap yard 
POLARACO2009-02-28 23:53:07
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 28, 2009, 07:05:40 PM
I put mine back in on my 1965 sure grip by hot-melt glueing it to a looong wooden dowel and fishing it into the housing. I put heavy grease on the inside end so it would stick.  Once in, I was able to twist and bend the dowel until the part popped off the glue. the glue stuck to the wood better than the bushing. It's worth a shot.....I didn't have to disassemble anything again (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 01, 2009, 02:47:25 AM
You're a mind-reader, Stitch. I had already decided that if these pieces just slid in, I was going to rig up some sort of an insertion tool.

Are all these adjusters identical. If so can anyone give me the dimensions. If Carl at justdifferentials can't help me, I might be able to make my own. We have all the equipment at work.

As problematic as this car has been, I still love it. I hope one day to not look at her and be thinking of the next repair on the list. I doubt that day will come as this is a 40+ year old car. I'll be satisfied just to have more time between repairs to enjoy her.

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 01, 2009, 03:50:13 AM
Still reading as much as I can out there trying to get my head around this problem. I found a part number for a thrust block assembly kit (2881313). As I read more and more, I came across the old original vs green bearing debate. Am I understanding this properly, that If I install the green bearings, I will not need the thrust block? How can this be? Right now, neither axle is in contact with the thrust block and they both have too much endplay.

I'm going to search this forum to see what has been said before on the green bearing debate. But the bottom line is if these bearings are good for a reasonably long life AND are easy to replace, it doesn't make sense NOT to install them. I understand the ball bearing design is not as strong as the tapered cone design for side load. That being said, if they're good for 15 or 20 thousand miles, it still makes sense to make the switch.

Thoughts?

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 01, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
Re: your green bearing comment. . .Regardless to what Stitch says about green bearings, I have to say he is wrong.  Guys put hundreds of thousands of miles on green bearings with no failures.  He basing his decision and opinions on one or 2.
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 01, 2009, 07:42:53 AM

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest1/HOW_GREEN_ARE_MY_BEARINGS.html (http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest1/HOW_GREEN_ARE_MY_BEARINGS.html)

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/questions/FROZEN_AXLES.html (http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/questions/FROZEN_AXLES.html)

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest/SEEING_RED_WITH_GREEN.html (http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest/SEEING_RED_WITH_GREEN.html)

I let Rich E-Berg do the talkin fer me.....



stitcherbob2009-03-01 12:43:41
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 01, 2009, 07:43:54 AM
Sorry, Polaraco, I meant to say spacer. I know the adjuster is at the other end.

Still undecided about the bearings. The end play adjustment procedure seems pretty straight forward. If my bearings are good right now, I'll probably stick with them. Maybe at replacement time I'll go Green.

Just so I'm clear, converting to the green bearings requires bearing replacement for both axles, yes?




Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 01, 2009, 09:14:55 AM
[/QUOTE]
 
Both axles. . Yes
 
E-bugger and I have been debating that forever.
 
He's referring to axle twisting B's and I'm referring to every day useage.  I have 30 K on Polaraco's so far and nothing so far.
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 05:19:33 AM
UPDATE!

I installed the missing spacers in the differential last night. They went in easy as pie. Borrowed a dial indicator from work to measure the axle shaft end play properly so I know it is set-up properly. Took it for a quick spin and it all felt great.

Just wanted to keep you guys up to date on my progress. And more importantly, to thank you all again for your great help with this and all the little problems I've come across.

Thanks to you, there is another classic Mopar prowling the streets!




Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 07:52:41 AM
Now you can come over and work on mine. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 11:48:38 AM
"Will Wrench For Beer!"(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif)

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
UPDATE #2

Went out this morning to clean up the garage after working on the differential last night (also helped a friend replace the lower control arm and rear calipers on his daughter's Volvo). I picked up the original fuel tank from the Sport Fury that has been off in a corner for the last month or so waiting for me to seal it with a liner (Oh, in case you're wondering how I've been able to test the Sport Fury, I was using a temporary fuel cell in my trunk). Anyway, I heard the sound of stuff inside the tank. Well, I'm here to tell you that I must've shaken out well over 3 cups of rust and what appears to be sand or dirt.

There's now way in hell I was going to use this tank.

Well, I took the plunge and bought a new fuel tank from a seller named Tamraz on ebay. I also bought a new fuel filler neck grommet from another seller while I was at it.

I'm excited about having a new tank in the old gal, but for the record, I have the most understanding wife a guy could ask for.

Just keeping you all up to speed as the car get healthier and healthier, while my bank account gets smaller and smaller.

(sigh)


Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 08, 2009, 02:02:54 PM

Quote from: Uncle Hulka
...but for the record, I have the most understanding wife a guy could ask for.

Not trying to outdo ya but I think I do.... (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/thumbsup.gif)

Bottom line?  We're a bunch of lucky guys for more reasons than one.

Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 02:12:24 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
I'll drink to that.
 
Hey Unca.  Was Carl able to help you out?  Curious if there is a upgrade for the original
Title: Changed Differential and now....HELP!
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2009, 02:36:00 PM
I did contact him, but by the time he got back to me I had found someone who had them in stock and shipped them that day. I sure do appreciate your recommendation and I'm sorry I couldn't have done business with him, but I was able to get my parts in hand in 48 hours.

I wonder how I'll make out with this tank?