MoparFins

Techical Discussions => General Tech => Topic started by: Brian Peddigrew on February 07, 2009, 04:21:42 PM

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 07, 2009, 04:21:42 PM
Anyone know about the Auto Temp II system? Right now my '73 NY has no motor in it and alot of the Autotemp parts are missing. The plagued plastic servo is still there but I don't think it works because it appears it was bypassed at one time. When I go to put a motor back in the car I probably won't bother with A/C but I haven't decided for sure. I will want the defroster/heater to still work though. I'm wondering will the heater controls still work if I bypass the servo and just hook the heater hoses to the firewall directly? I'm not really interested in restoring the system back to stock, but did anyone ever mess with one of these systems? There must be about 50 miles of vaccuum tubing hooked to this thing and I have no idea what they do


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian on February 07, 2009, 04:29:40 PM
My understanding of the Temp II system is that everything is pretty much controlled by the main water servo on the inner fender....if this don't work nothing works.
 
You may bwe able to bypass the servo but you will need a factory service manual (FSM) with a vacuum hose diagram of the Temp II system and then you will have to figure out how to route/re-route the appropriate lines to get the system to do what you want it too.
 
If you go to imperialclub.com and serch around the A/C - Auto temp links you will find that you can get the original servo and amplifier rebuilt to better than new condition...not cheap but your system should work better than new once upgraded.
 
 
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 07, 2009, 04:52:16 PM
Yeah I saw that someone makes a new aluminum servo. Problem is it's about $600. Between that and the other missing parts (all the A/C stuff is gone too, other than the evaporator in the dash) I figure it would be about $2000 to put it all back to stock. Which I would love to do, but can't justify the expense...I do have the service manual, which covers the auto temp system but I haven't really studied it closely yet.

I searched the Imperialclub site but there's not much there on the AT system other than mentioning the aluminum servo.

One option may be to get a regular heater controler off another Chrysler and try to hook it up. They only have about 5 vacuum lines on them so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out where to hook it up to the air doors etc..


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 07, 2009, 05:49:29 PM



http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/281/index.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/281/index.htm)


The AutoTemp II Solution (http://www.duricy.com/%7Eimperialist/AutoTemp/autotemp.html)

Inside the AutoTemp II Servo (http://www.duricy.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=The-AutoTemp-II-Servo)

http://www.duricy.com/~imperialist/ (http://www.duricy.com/%7Eimperialist/)

 (http://www.duricy.com/%7Eimperialist/)

(http://www.duricy.com/albums/The-AutoTemp-II-Servo/a2servo01.sized.jpg)




stitcherbob2009-02-07 22:51:54
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Leaburn Patey on February 07, 2009, 06:42:08 PM
The Auto Temp (I and II) are junk.
Mine does not even work at all in the New Yorker.
 
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 07, 2009, 06:48:28 PM

Quote from: CBarge
The Auto Temp (I and II) are junk.
Mine does not even work at all in the New Yorker.

Seems to be common, which is why i'm looking at bypassing or replacing the system with the regular heat control setup. Like I said I'm not really interested in restoring the system back to new. I just want a working defroster. But the car is apart right now.

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 07, 2009, 06:52:32 PM
Then you want this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350137467399&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem= (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350137467399&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 08, 2009, 09:24:14 AM
So it's my understanding that I need to replace the in-dash controls with a non ATCII setup like in the auction stitcherbob posted. Figure out the mess of vacuum lines so the air doors open and close properly with the new controls and install a heat valve on one of the heater hoses to control the heat? and hook a cable from the temp slider to the heat valve, correct?

(http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/images/3115NEW_small.jpg)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 08, 2009, 11:02:52 AM

Your question is very timely.  I am right now researching how to convert the ATC II in my '76 New Yorker to manual AC.  I'm determined to do it 100% properly so I'm spending rediculous (too much in fact) time scouring for info.  Let me tell you where I'm at.

Here is my current setup in the dash:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2vlnnh3.jpg)


Out of the dash you can see a manual AC control from a '91 Carvan is a direst replacement.  The ATC is the top unit and the Manual is the bottom unit:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/24via1v.jpg)


This is what the manual unit looks like on top showing the cable control for the heater control valve (more on the valve later):

(http://i39.tinypic.com/15pmz9w.jpg)

This is what the bottom of the manual unit looks like with the vacuum lines for the heater box doors.
There is no heater box with manual doors available to fit your car unless you go with an aftermarket unit like Classic Air.  Not a bad idea but -woo hoo- expensive.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/k4grap.jpg)

The manual heater control valves come in 4 configurations: left or right pull, and open/close or close/open.
Be very carefull which one you choose!  I don't like the ones you showbecause they do not mount rigidly.  I have seen those WITH a mounting bracket< i just can find it at the moment.

NOW, beg borrow or steal a copy of this:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/ffcvnl.jpg)

Last of all, on my car, the water valve is 5/8" X 1/2".  Why? I dunno.  Seems stupid to me but it means I have to use a 5/8" X 1/2" reducer because all the manual relacement valves are either 3/4" X 3/4" or 5/8" X 5/8".

(http://i41.tinypic.com/15cmxdg.jpg)


  If anybody can find me a heater control valve that is 5/8" X 1/2" with bracket  RH close/open. I will wash your car for the next year free.

Another step you will have to do is hardwire from the manual AC on/off swith from the dash control unit to the compressor. 


So that's where I'm at.  I'm not too eager to jump on this soon cuz I don't look forward to pulling the front seat, dash, heater box, and ductwork.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)








Commando12009-02-08 16:19:49
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 08, 2009, 11:20:13 AM
Thanks for the help. That caravan setup looks like a real nice fit in your '76, the newer radio looks pretty good in there also. I agree about a bracket on the water valve, I think that would be the way to go, I just never found a pic of one.
One thing I was wondering about, is that most water valves are vacuum operated? I'm not sure how that would work since I think they'd be full open or full closed, unless the heater controls modulate the vacuum to control the heat..

The dash in my '73 is different so the caravan setup won't work, but I can just get one out of a non ATII equipped car. Or that one off Ebay...

When you say there is no manual heater box available for my car I'm not sure what you mean? I never looked at my cars heater box very closely yet, but are you saying the auto-temp cars don't have the usual heater box setup with vacuum operated doors and such?


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 08, 2009, 12:22:41 PM


I was referring to totally manual systems where even the doors were controlled by cable.  But those systems went out in the sixties....

(http://www.classicautoair.com/images/MS-CPickup6063ControlL.jpg)



Quote from: 2C1J
...the newer radio looks pretty good in there also.


Thanks, I found a NOS Chrysler 1996 AM/FM on eBay for 10 bucks.  Direct bolt-in.  No modifications.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
The important thing to me is that it looks right too.  I hate when people install aftermarket radios that are designed for George Jetson cars in their classic dash.

(http://www.speedsound.com/images/products/Panasonic%20-%20cq-c7205u.jpg)


Commando12009-02-08 17:35:06
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 08, 2009, 03:54:59 PM
I forgot to post this about an AT2 conversion:

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1973/Kerrys73saga/73part17.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1973/Kerrys73saga/73part17.htm)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 08, 2009, 04:29:47 PM
yeah I read through all that last night. It was a good read, and helped a little but it didn't put me much farther ahead. When the weather warms up a bit I'm going to tear into the dash and try to rig something up. I wish it was spring.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)

Commando, you said your 96 radio bolted in with no mods? Did the mounting tabs look like this? I'd love to put a factory cassette/cd stereo in my '73. How hard was hooking up the wiring?

(http://i3.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/30/03/29b4_1.JPG)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 08, 2009, 05:02:49 PM



No. Here's the radio I pulled out.  This mounting system was used by chrysler from '74 (maybe earlier, I don;t know for sure) until 2001 in some models.  Some Fords also used this mount. 

(http://i19.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/30/03/6911_12.JPG)

Shameless plug ---> It's on eBay right now  LINK  (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120373386646&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&viewitem=)

I bought at an auto stereo shop the two male 7-pin connectors (with color-coded wiring) that plug into the radio.  Do not buy the connectors from auto supply stores because they are the females that plug into the car's harness.

I had to run new speaker wires to the rear speakers because they wer single wire and the new radio is 2-wire.  Other than that, piece of cake.


I really wanted one of these with the CD but I have yet to see one for less than $150.  I'm too cheep.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/142tp5e.jpg)



Commando12009-02-08 22:26:23
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 08, 2009, 08:06:06 PM

Quote from: Commando1





I really wanted one of these with the CD but I have yet to see one for less than $150.  I'm too cheep.




I bet you try all the Mopar car door handles in the dark parking lots lookin for an unlocked one....dontcha?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 09, 2009, 04:13:16 AM
OK.  Back to ATC II...

Quote from: 2C1J
So it's my understanding that I need to... ... install a heat valve on one of the
heater hoses to control the heat? and hook a cable from the temp slider
to the heat valve, correct?


Correct.  And I found the correct valve:

(http://www.harbor-innovations.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/VALVEMODELB.jpg.w300h225.jpg)

Harbour Innovations (http://www.harbor-innovations.com/id67.html)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Snotty on February 09, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
I know of one in Bakersfield for $75.00.  I have not grabbed it yet - havn't had the time.
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Ken on February 09, 2009, 01:30:24 PM


Quote from: Snotty
Quote from: Commando1
I really wanted one of these with the CD but I have yet to see one for less than $150.  I'm too cheep.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/142tp5e.jpg)


 

That's a steal at that price. I had on of those back when I had my Neon, swapped it out for the 5 band EQ/cassette with CD changer controls, and had the original radio for a few years until I pitched it (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Moesy2009-02-09 18:31:13
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 09, 2009, 04:02:30 PM
I went ot to the junkyard where i've been scavaging a '74 New Yorker on occaision.  I went there to pull the heater box so I could examine it on the bench just to see what is involved in converting to manual AC.

After 1/2 an hour, I gave up.  Ain't no way it's gonna come out without total (and I do mean TOTAL) dismantling of the dash.  I dread the day if mine ever has to come out.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif). 


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 10, 2009, 04:41:15 PM
More shtuff:

While studying the tech manual for AT II, I discovered that  if you convert to a manual AC setup, the temperature control cable HAS to go to the air blend door in the hater box and not the heater valve.
The heater valve has to remain vacuum operated.

The more I read, the more I.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on February 10, 2009, 05:03:30 PM


Quote from: Commando1
More shtuff:

While studying the tech manual for AT II, I discovered that  if you convert to a manual AC setup, the temperature control cable HAS to go to the air blend door in the hater box and not the heater valve.
The heater valve has to remain vacuum operated.

The more I read, the more I.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)


I don't see why it would have to remain vacuum operated, but it's just as well I suppose. You could have a vacuum valve that shuts the heat off with the a/c on, and then opens again when you want hot air. Then the air door would control the amount of heat just like a stock setup I suppose? Many cars didn't even have heater valves anyways, though I guess with A/C the hot water going though the heater core ALL  the time would waste some the cold air coming off the evaporator...
(http://i20.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/31/52/682b_1.JPG)
Here is non AT control unit for my '73, looks like the temp slider is for a vacuum set up as well? not sure what that switch is for though.

I've worked on cars for years, but never messed with this kind of stuff...never had a need to until I had an Auto temp car.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
2C1J2009-02-10 22:04:16
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 10, 2009, 09:25:54 PM
I think Mopar wanted some warm air in there to keep the evaporator from icing up

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on February 10, 2009, 09:29:54 PM
http://www.moparfins.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1656&PID=28557#28557 (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1656&PID=28557#28557)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 11, 2009, 01:12:57 AM

Quote from: stitcherbob
I think Mopar wanted some warm air in there to keep the evaporator from icing up
Exactly!
A cee-gar to the gentleman at the sewing machine.

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on February 11, 2009, 01:48:15 AM


Quote from: 2C1J
I've worked on cars for years, but never messed with this kind of stuff...never had a need to until I had an Auto temp car.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

AMEN, brother!        (http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/137/left.jpg)

Wish we could go back to this:

(http://www.classicautoair.com/images/MS-Corvette5862ControlL.jpg)
Commando12009-02-11 07:12:07
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 03, 2009, 08:14:29 AM
Somebody, I'm sure, can use this:

LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-chrysler-imperial-heater-75-76-77-78-newyorker-all_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ007QQitemZ170307984941QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

(http://i15.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/37/10/9493_1.JPG)


Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on March 15, 2009, 04:44:05 PM
So I bought a NOS '73 non ATC temp control set up...Now I gotta figure out how to hook it up. I'm gonna pull the dash apart in a few weeks and start figuring out what vacuum lines do what. Can't say I'm looking forward to it.

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 15, 2009, 04:47:01 PM
Better than having coolant in your oil........

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stitcherbob on March 26, 2009, 11:17:51 PM

I just got my replacement servo for the 73 Imp from ebay ($22.95 best offer + 10 bucks UPS! what a deal!) and disassembled it. It has a small crack in the housing caused by the mounting screws rusting, but most of the internals look OK. There was a bunch of antifreeze corrosion in the lower end that I cleaned out using mag wheel acid cleaner. I cleaned the middle section with Ultra One to remove rust without hurting the plastic.
Then I stumbled across this site...8 pages but it's an intimate look at repairing a servo (my unit was off a Mercedes so I trolled the Mercedes sites for info...)

http://w123gassers.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,553.0.html (http://w123gassers.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,553.0.html)
stitcherbob2009-03-27 03:18:45
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Stan Paralikis on March 26, 2009, 11:43:07 PM

  $%#@ things...Commando12009-03-27 08:40:50
Title: Auto temp II
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on October 19, 2009, 02:03:08 PM
I should probably post an update to this. Using a 73 Newport heater valve and in-dash heater controls, a universal choke cable, a bunch of wire and some swearing I managed to completely convert the car to the non ATII setup. It really wasn't too difficult, the worst part was the wiring. The FSM was a big help but I'm not great at reading wiring diagrams and had a fit trying to get the blower motor to work correctly on the low-med-hi settings but it works great now. I must have removed about 20lbs of vacuum line from underneath the dash too. The only thing I haven't worked on is getting the rear heater working with it but I'll worry about that later. 

Title: Auto temp II
Post by: firedome on October 19, 2009, 03:31:30 PM
Good riddance,  Auto Temp II is the work of the devil.. I had it in my '69 Imp.