MoparFins

Techical Discussions => General Tech => Topic started by: attkrlufy on October 08, 2008, 07:05:22 PM

Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: attkrlufy on October 08, 2008, 07:05:22 PM
Look - I'm a poet and I didn't even know it!

With the the Thermoquad soon-to-be fixed, I want to tackle the way this puppy breathes.  The single exhaust was hacked up by some reject ages ago who didn't realize when you DOWNSIZE the pipe you kill the car's ability to move air in and out.  He also routed it wrong, so the pipe smacks against the rear axle on bumps.  When I drive Wanda on some of these Ithaca roads, it sounds like a Neil Peart drum solo. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley26.gif)

I want to convert my single exhaust to dual exhaust, and (of course) I've got more than a few questions.

1) What should something like that cost me approximately?  I have no experience with exhaust work so I don't know if an estimate I'm getting is honest or realistic.
2) How wide should the exhaust pipes be?  Do you guys think 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" is right for a 360 4v?  I'm not trying to win races or intimidate the neighbors....I just want a nice boost in HP without killing my ears at idle or light-to-moderate throttle.  Quiet=good.
3) I notice a lot of people get either X or H pipes when they get dual exhausts.  Should I do that?  What's the benefit of something like that, anyway?

Thanks for your help, guys.


Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Snotty on October 08, 2008, 08:25:49 PM
I ahd 2.5" on my 360 Cordoba andf it flowed well.  I ahve the same on my Newport and like it as well.
 
I spent just at $700.00 for the dual set-up on my Newport.  That was for all new pipe from the exhaust manifold on one side, and one-half length on the other (The factory pipe was 2.5 as well, so Steve used that back to the axle.), two trrbo mufflers, and new pipe omn both sides to the rear of the car.
 
As for a crossover pipe, it's a matter of taste and preference.  I'd say if your motor is otherwise stock it is not necessary.
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 09, 2008, 01:06:03 AM
When it comes to exhaust, too many people have the kneejerk reaction to go into the "bigger is better" mode of thinking.  I'm not going to get into my credentials and why my opinion should be followed.  Listen to everybody and then decide.
 
The simple answers:
For your current setup....
1.  If you can in your state, dump the cats if you have them.
2.  2  1/4" single or 2" duals is totally sufficient. 
3.  If duals, you don't need an X pipe.
4.  Save yourself a ton of money.  Go to a chain muffler shop and put on a stock   replacement system.
 
If you want the long version, PM me...
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 09, 2008, 03:12:27 AM
700.00 is about the norm.
Stock motor with mild upgrades 2-1/4" will give you good torque range,better MPG,and better top end.2-1/2" will be noisier and no real HP gains on a stock motor
2-1/2" will compliment a hot 360 better,IMO.
My car is not a performance vehicle yet I have an H-pipe.
Truthfully,the H pipe systen is quieter than straight duals.
It evens out pulsing and scavenging.At 70 MPH,my car is quiet.
Plus,at idle the exhaust sounds great with the H.No blatting or snapping when on the throttle.
Dynomax Super Turbo 17747 mufflers sound the best behind a Mopar engine. Also Thrush welded muffler 289-17651 sounds great with a deeper agressive tone.
Should your car require the cat convertors to stay on,install Magnaflow Hi-flow 93500 series cats.We install them at my work and you can actually see right through them!! They run about 70 bux or less each. 
Cats will be above the dual conversion cost,of course.
Ditto if you want stainless tips
CBarge2008-10-13 09:23:55
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 09, 2008, 06:21:05 AM
1) What should something like that cost me approximately?  I have no experience with exhaust work so I don't know if an estimate I'm getting is honest or realistic.
 
$700 is about right.  Suggest an H Pipe too.  It improves the MPG slightly and gives it a great sound too.
2) How wide should the exhaust pipes be?  Do you guys think 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" is right for a 360 4v?  I'm not trying to win races or intimidate the neighbors....I just want a nice boost in HP without killing my ears at idle or light-to-moderate throttle.  Quiet=good.
 
2 1/4 fits a tad better and is a good size for a small block.  For quiet, make sure the pipes are all the way to the rear of the car, exiting right behind the rear valance.  The closer to the rear, the quieter
3) I notice a lot of people get either X or H pipes when they get dual exhausts.  Should I do that?  What's the benefit of something like that, anyway?
 
[/QUOTE]
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Rich on October 09, 2008, 01:28:25 PM
 2" pipes will be fine on a stock 360, If you go too much bigger without other mods, you will loose exhaust gas velocity and horsepower. 2 1/2" works well on a mild Big Block, but would be too much for your engine. You should definately get either an H or X pipe. If you don't your car will drive you nuts with all the pulsing/droning that goes on at highway speeds. Dyno Max super turbo mufflers are the way to go to get that great Mopar sound --think of the Charger in Bullet! (These mufflers are supposed to be modeled after the street hemi mufflers of the late 60's.) 
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 09, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: krautmaster
 2" pipes will be fine on a stock 360, If you go too much bigger without other mods, you will loose exhaust gas velocity and horsepower. 2 1/2" works well on a mild Big Block, but would be too much for your engine. You should definately get either an H or X pipe. If you don't your car will drive you nuts with all the pulsing/droning that goes on at highway speeds. Dyno Max super turbo mufflers are the way to go to get that great Mopar sound --think of the Charger in Bullet! (These mufflers are supposed to be modeled after the street hemi mufflers of the late 60's.) 
 
I've heard that is what the H and X help to eliminate.  One of the reasons I was promoting the idea.  I try not to get to techy sometimes.
 
I have 2 1/4 on a 318 with an X.  Anybody who has driven the car, will tell you there is no lacl of flow in that puppy
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: attkrlufy on October 09, 2008, 08:35:32 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Quote from: krautmaster
 2" pipes will be fine on a stock 360, If you go too much bigger without other mods, you will loose exhaust gas velocity and horsepower. 2 1/2" works well on a mild Big Block, but would be too much for your engine. You should definately get either an H or X pipe. If you don't your car will drive you nuts with all the pulsing/droning that goes on at highway speeds. Dyno Max super turbo mufflers are the way to go to get that great Mopar sound --think of the Charger in Bullet! (These mufflers are supposed to be modeled after the street hemi mufflers of the late 60's.) 
 
I've heard that is what the H and X help to eliminate.  One of the reasons I was promoting the idea.  I try not to get to techy sometimes.
 
I have 2 1/4 on a 318 with an X.  Anybody who has driven the car, will tell you there is no lacl of flow in that puppy.
Yeah - but if I recall your 318 is a Magnum.  Wouldn't that make a bit of a difference when compared to a regular compression (8.4:1) 360 from 1979?

Still, I think I will go with the 2 1/4" duals with an H or X pipe.  I like what I'm hearing about what they do.  However, one problem I've found is that on the R-bodies, there's a spot for the cat on the driver's side that's taken up by the motor for the driver seat.  So - I'm told if you have a power driver's seat, you can't have a cat on that side of the exhaust piping.

There's got to be a way around that.....right? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)

Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 10, 2008, 12:41:11 PM
Aftermarket Cats have a shield if you specify it. 
 
Maybe you can find a shield in the scrap yard for it you can retro to the floor board too.  That will eliminate any doubts for you.  I would suppose anything from any car would work.  It's only a piece of galvanized sheet metal
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 10, 2008, 01:47:25 PM
The Magnaflow hi-flow cats come with a heat shield welded onto it.
CBarge2008-10-10 18:47:41
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 10, 2008, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: attkrlufy
Quote from: POLARACO
Quote from: krautmaster
 2" pipes will be fine on a stock 360, If you go too much bigger without other mods, you will loose exhaust gas velocity and horsepower. 2 1/2" works well on a mild Big Block, but would be too much for your engine. You should definately get either an H or X pipe. If you don't your car will drive you nuts with all the pulsing/droning that goes on at highway speeds. Dyno Max super turbo mufflers are the way to go to get that great Mopar sound --think of the Charger in Bullet! (These mufflers are supposed to be modeled after the street hemi mufflers of the late 60's.) 
 
I've heard that is what the H and X help to eliminate.  One of the reasons I was promoting the idea.  I try not to get to techy sometimes.
 
 
The fact that it's a magnum makes no difference.  Remember yours is 42 more cubes bigger than my Maggie.  The magnum has slightly higher flowing heads and roller lifters.  That's the primary difference.  More HP and torque from a smaller package because of less friction.  The EFI is the major difference.
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: attkrlufy on October 11, 2008, 05:45:43 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
The fact that it's a magnum makes no difference.  Remember yours is 42 more cubes bigger than my Maggie.  The magnum has slightly higher flowing heads and roller lifters.  That's the primary difference.  More HP and torque from a smaller package because of less friction.  The EFI is the major difference.
Hhhmmmm...I thought the Magnum engines used much higher compression than the carbureted ones.

Still, I found two very small cats - one by Flowmaster and one by Magnaflow that fit the descriptions you guys gave.  They're also only 4" thick - I should be able to fit them anywhere.

Someone mentioned using Dynomax Super Turbo 17747 mufflers.  Aren't they kinda loud?  I'm looking for something quiet.  Afterall, Wanda's not a Charger, she's a New Yorker.  I've got a killer stereo planned for her and I'd like to be able to hear it.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)

Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 11, 2008, 05:48:53 PM
You mentioned quiet before.
 
One of you guys tell him what Polaraco sounds like with stock style mufflers on it
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 11, 2008, 07:13:27 PM
Polaraco sounds great.Not loud at idle,nice burble when cruising and awesome when on it getting up to speed on the on-ramp!
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Matt Aker on October 12, 2008, 05:29:49 AM
Quote from: CBarge
Polaraco sounds great.Not loud at idle,nice burble when cruising and awesome when on it getting up to speed on the on-ramp!
 
Polaraco sounds like a 383 (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 12, 2008, 11:30:58 AM
Ouch!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 13, 2008, 04:07:55 AM
Quote from: MoparMatt
Quote from: CBarge
Polaraco sounds great.Not loud at idle,nice burble when cruising and awesome when on it getting up to speed on the on-ramp!
 
That is a compliment.A smallblock that has a big block sound.Very nice deep tone,not blatty.
Both Matt and I had driven Polaraco on different ocassions and indeed it does sound great.
The exhuast is not loud enough to drown the stereo nor talking to others inside the car.   
The Dynomax muffler # I suggested was designed as a direct replacement for the Hemi muffler.
If you think they are too loud for your taste,may I suggest Walker Quiet Flow equal replacement to it.
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 13, 2008, 04:12:12 AM
[/QUOTE]
I have a New Yorker and the exhaust is not loud with the Dynomax mufflers included in the TTI system.
Everybody's taste is different ,and I respect that.
Try Walker 21768 which is a direct fit replacement for a 79 NY'er with the factory 360 dual set up.The outlet for the tailpipes are 2" but can be bumped to fit 2-1/4" tailpipes.
For more choice of mufflers for your car,go here:
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/vehicletypescrn.asp (http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/vehicletypescrn.asp)
Again,I suggested the Magnaflow 93500 series cat convertors.
CBarge2008-10-13 09:31:07
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 13, 2008, 05:53:55 AM
The key to the quiet cabin is th have the exhaust exit right at the end edge of the car.  I had to put extensions on for a lousey  4 inches.  Made a big difference.  I'm still working on quietuieting down the car. . .But now the cabin noise is half of what it was when Lea heard it. . . I think Matt can tell you the diff.  He heard before and after
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Matt Aker on October 15, 2008, 12:17:21 PM
It wasn't really that bad to begin with, but it was noticeable at steady speed and upon acceleration.  Those extensions worked amazingly well.  The exhaust resonation noticed in the cabin virtually disappeared.
 
 
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2008, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: MoparMatt
It wasn't really that bad to begin with, but it was noticeable at steady speed and upon acceleration.  Those extensions worked amazingly well.  The exhaust resonation noticed in the cabin virtually disappeared.
 
 
That's because, once again, I pay people to do a job with instructions, and pay them well.  They take the money but don't follow instructions.  I told him to vent those pipes with a factory curl at the end and cut off, right behind the valance and let them stick down a inch.
 
But instead I ended up with those gaudy extensions sticking out 3 inches. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: attkrlufy on October 16, 2008, 10:47:49 AM

Quote from: CBarge
Both Matt and I had driven Polaraco on different ocassions and indeed it does sound great.
Wow.  What I want to know is when do I get to drive Polaraco?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Quote from: CBarge
The Dynomax muffler # I suggested was designed as a direct replacement for the Hemi muffler.
If you think they are too loud for your taste,may I suggest Walker Quiet Flow equal replacement to it.
First I gotta find someone who will do custom work.  No one in Ithaca will touch the car to put on duals unless "it came from the factory that way."  I tried explaining it was an option....but they've all said unless it's got duals on now, they won't put it on. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)

I did check out the Walker site you mentioned - wonderful for getting info.  Thanks a bunch.  I'm sure I'll find something that'll work.

Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2008, 10:52:11 AM
Sounds like you have a delema
 
Ithica is about 4 hours from here. . .I can send you to my guy.
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: AJ on October 26, 2008, 05:24:06 PM
You can buy a builder's kit and make one yourself, too. :-P

I did my exhaust on my Jeep with a friend for approx 150.00.  Used a 2.25 builder kit that was mandrel bent, magnaflow y-pipe (2.25 -> 2.5), 20' section of 2.25 and a thrush welded 2-chamber.  Took us two Saturdays or so and had some fun doing it too.  Wanted to do dual but did not have the space on the pass side between the xfer case and frame rail.

Only thing - we had plenty of room to work with under the Jeep.

Now working on getting my Eddy Performer Intake\\Carb on...that will take another two weekends.


Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 26, 2008, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: CBarge
The Dynomax muffler # I suggested was designed as a direct replacement for the Hemi muffler.
Drive three hours up here in Kingston and my man at my shop will do it.We can put on any muff you want.My exhaust man has been bending pipe for 18 years.I have two rooms here if you need to stay overnight.Steve will be up this way in a couple of weeks so maybe we can meet in Watertown or Govorneur??
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: AJ on October 27, 2008, 10:45:36 AM
I could not find this link again...but took some time and finally found it for you...and maybe the rest of you guys, too.  Take a look...

http://www.waldronexhaust.com/ (http://www.waldronexhaust.com/)

 
He has many makes\\models and if you can't find it on the site give him a call.  He is an awesome guy.
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 27, 2008, 02:07:21 PM
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE WALDRONS BY ANY MEANS!!!!!
JUST GOOGLE HIM AND YOU"LL KNOW WHY!!
Title: Dual exhaust - what's it cost?
Post by: AJ on October 28, 2008, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Commando1
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE WALDRONS BY ANY MEANS!!!!!
 
Do you have a link?
 
I have never bought from him - only almost did once and the guy was very pleasant.  I did some searching but couldn't find anything...then again I don't have the brain-power ritght now to find what I am looking for, actually.  Steve knows what I'm talknig about...what a friggin day! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)