Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: Snotty on October 06, 2008, 12:50:41 PM

Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Snotty on October 06, 2008, 12:50:41 PM
Hey Friends, I just fixed a problem that I really didn't know I had.
For the longest time - since I bought it in '03 - my Newport would fire right up when cold but take the longest time starting when hot.  (However, not if the car had sat for a while; then I had to crank it rather long to get fuel back into the carb when cold.)  With tune-ups, swapping to Mopar Performance Electric Ignition, new carb and intake the problem persisted.
It was getting worse over this summer.  When I drove it to Santa Cruz there were two times I didn't think it was going to start at all.  It would, finally, and then I would watch my Amp Guage holding at "Charge" for a long time.
Then, two weeks ago, the four of us went out for shopping and then dinner at Red Robin.  The car had a hard time starting at the shopping center we were at, but after RR it would not fire at all.  I drained the battery trying.  A Dude in a pickup as well as the AAA guy tried to give me a jump, all to no avail.  Getting towed home was embarrasing.  (
That night at home I pulled a plug wire and discovered I had no spark.  After talking with Chris "the Doctor" the next day he told me to get another control module.  I did, as well as a new ballast resistor as recommended by Mike at Oildale Auto PArts.  I installed the new module and the car fired instantly!  Whoo-hoo!  But, after driving it the next day the hard starts were still there.
The Doctor told me to bring the car to his shop so he could do a electrical check on it.  It didn't last long for he to tell me that my starter was drawing a whopping 400 amps!  He told me to replace it immediately!  I did.  (By the way, normal amps are 235 when cranking with a max of 375.  Mariah asked so I looked it up.)
What a difference!  My car starts instantly!!  When hot it still takes longer, but the starter stays constant and the motor fires in 1/6th the time it used to.
Chris said the drain caused by the old starter was taking needed power away from the ECM which is why the motor would not fire, or would take so long.  Then, it simply burned out the ECM I had.
So, how old is your starter?  (
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 06, 2008, 01:22:59 PM
Good advice.  Thanks.
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Steve on October 06, 2008, 03:49:27 PM
You didn't ask me. . . .
I would have told you to put in a mini or a high torque starter too.  The high torque uses less power and turns the engine a bit faster.
So tell me, did this starter havea bigger motor on it than the original?  Does it sound different?
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 06, 2008, 06:15:07 PM
You know when somebody's trying to start a Mopar when you hear this sound: (
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Ken on October 06, 2008, 07:09:02 PM

Snotty, I'm...I'm....shocked! (

I thought you would have already converted your Newport to a mini stater by now.

That's the FIRST thing I did with Chaz and it was $$ WELL spent.  Hardly ever cranks for more an 5 seconds, if that.  More often than not, it starts within the first revolution, just as if I had fuel injection rather than a carburetor.

Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Snotty on October 07, 2008, 08:44:41 AM
Steve and Moe, no, I didn't go with the mini-starter.  Although mini, they have a HUGE price!  I bought a standard starter, but I wanted one with the smaller motor.  I had installed one of those on the '62.  Mike didn't have one.  However, the one I installed is the same as the one that was on the car.
Does it sound different?  Yes, because it turns at the RPM it's supposed to.  I didn't realize how bad the old starter was until I swapped it.  This new one flies!
Moe, five seconds?  That seems too long to me unless the car has been sitting.  Before I swapped, it would thake that and then some.  Now, even hot, it's started in less than two seconds.  When cool to warm it barely makes one revolution before it fires.
I like it!  (
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Steve on October 07, 2008, 09:04:33 AM
The larger motor spins the engine faster and uses less current.  I went through all that with my 71F3.  The Miny is even better but makes the car sound like a Toyota.  Not cool
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Ken on October 07, 2008, 05:15:00 PM
Cool shmool...I like having Chaz fire right up like he's supposed to, just right after twisting the key (

Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Snotty on October 08, 2008, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
The larger motor spins the engine faster and uses less current. 
Yes, but they can be a pain to install.  I am glad I do not have headers.  I had just enough room to maneuver it through the gap between my pitman arm, torsion bar, and trans lines.   I was very careful; I did not want to bend another trans hose. 
All told, I was done in less than an hour.  The biggest problem was I had driven the car to have Chris test it.  Although my exhaust was cool, that starter was still bloody hot when I went to remove it!!!  Eeeek!  (
Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Johnny D. on October 08, 2008, 09:53:24 AM
ha 5 seconds is slow... you should try starting nadine..... ive made it to ten a coupla times... whatever though long as it starts, just depends on her mood i guess... ive start first turn after sitting all night too... go figure.

Title: Hard Starts
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on October 08, 2008, 11:41:56 AM
Ruby starts great when she's cold but the starter turns over slowly when she's hot (fully warmed up about 200 degrees) a mini (Dakota) starter is on the list of improvements. but not a priority for now.