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Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: Stan Paralikis on August 28, 2008, 02:46:07 PM

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 28, 2008, 02:46:07 PM
I have a chance to pick up a '73 440/727 out of a Winnebago.
It (supposedly) has 80k on it and was running when it was pulled.
I'm not too concerned about the abuse it got lugging around a Winnie because I want to rebuild the motor and tranny for "The Nyb".
 
I know there were minor differences from passenger car engines and trannies, but, I can't find any specifics.  I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I spend the money. I know the differences are no biggy.  I just want to know what they are.  Since it will be a rebuild, I'm not concerned about it being a low hp engine.
 
BTW, I think for 400 bucks, it's a good deal (as long as the motor spins).
 
Commando12010-06-26 12:05:34
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on August 28, 2008, 06:14:36 PM
Motorhome heads had extra water jackets in them.They can be used in cars no problems.Just be carefull in selecting head gaskets and mind the dremel if there is any porting planned .
Double check the lower rad hose outlet on the water pump housing.Some are on the right and others may be on the left.
Re-use the NYB one if you have to.
The motor is a drop in deal-no problem.Just use the C body motor mounts on the block.
Passenger 727's had only three front planetary gears.

The RV transmissions have four front planetery gears like a Hemi 727--that is good.
However, depending on the RV manufacturer's specs,most have a short tailstock and hanger bearing  for the two piece drive shaft.--That can be bad.
Why?
 Most cars like the big C's had long tailstock shafts and one driveshaft assembly.
The tranny will work but will need some pawtz swapping in order to work--- should it be a shorty tailstock jobby..
Be sure to use the car exhaust logs not the center dump RV ones.
You can E bay the center dumps since they fit most trucks that are  equipped or converted to B/RB engines.From the Sweptlines of the 60's all  the way up to 1993 trucks..
For the $400.00 bux it is a good deal and can work in the NYB with minor fuss.. 
Hope this helps.
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 29, 2008, 03:17:06 AM
Quote from: CBarge
Hope this helps.
 
ABSOLUTELY!  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/thanx.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Snotty on August 29, 2008, 09:57:46 AM
Stan, I don;t know about the 440s, but the 413 MH motors also used a different water pump housing and exhaust manifolds.  These can all be swapped for standard units as the blocks are the same.
 
The use on such a motor, even at 80,000 miles is not bad.  It would never had been raced, and probably never went above 70 MPH.
 
I'd say you made a good find. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on August 29, 2008, 12:48:31 PM
Also the RV engines have a slightly bigger cam. BONUS!!!!
 
I just heard at a local cruise -in that  the center dump exhaust manifolds command big bucks on E-Bay because the guys that have or want to put a 440 in a pick-up can't find em. I guess they are getting scarse maybe you can get the 400.00 back in the manifolds alone!!
Good luck!!!
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 29, 2008, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: ardog
Also the RV engines have a slightly bigger cam. BONUS!!!!
 
Good to know but kinda a moot point.
I have learned to expect the worse and would do all new internals.
400 bucks from an unknown redneck out in the boonies? C'mon, now...... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on August 29, 2008, 03:07:47 PM
Instead of gutting a C for it's heart, gut a gas guzzling Mo Home
 
I have a 77 which had the E Brake on the tail shaft of the trans.  That is in a 700 chassis.  Someday, I am going to go up there and drop it out the bottom and bring it home.  Only has 34,000 on it too 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 29, 2008, 11:01:07 PM
I just ran across a tidbit that the MH blocks are stronger because of a higher nickel content.
 
T or F?
 
Commando12008-08-30 09:38:58
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on August 30, 2008, 02:37:10 AM
1973 ws the last year for the desirable forged crank and the nickel content in the block was increased.
Later blocks say,76 to 78 have the highest nickle content.
Regardless,any machining should the block require will do fine whether if you are boring it out ,or making a killer stroker motor.
The RV cams are one step up from lo-po stock but are down from the TNT/Super Commando/Magnum cam.With a 260/260 duration it has a good torque band,smooth idle and still hauls a$$.I have it in my Barge.
Just ask any of the Mob who rode in my car !!LOL!!
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 31, 2008, 04:14:14 PM
Well I dragged that suckah home today.  While pulling it off the truck in my driveway, the engine flipped over upside down because of my carelessness in chaining it up.
It puked all its internal precious bodily fluids out onto the driveway.  So, there I am, in my deed-restricted community (read: working on vehicles prohibitted  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif) ) with an engine lieing on the ground and a hazmat mother lode pouring down the driveway into the street.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
 
I had just enough speedi-dri to contain the ecological disaster.  Off to AutoZone Mon. morn for another few bags.
 
Pics @ 11:00  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 31, 2008, 04:15:46 PM
BTW, it does have the short MH tailshaft.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on August 31, 2008, 07:53:51 PM
Find a Club Cab truck guy who has a car tranny and see if he is willing to swap.
Just an idea.......
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 01, 2008, 12:51:39 AM
Quote from: CBarge
Find a Club Cab truck guy who has a car tranny and see if he is willing to swap. Just an idea....... 
Actually, I think I'll just try to sell it or trade it for something I need.  The MH block had headers on it which I declined to take so I could use a cupla logs.  Tranny for logs. Hmm...
 
Commando12008-09-01 12:38:49
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 01, 2008, 09:38:55 AM
What is the motor going into?? I have a couple spare sets of logs including a set for a '73 C.
Pay for the shipping
CBarge2008-09-01 14:39:17
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 01, 2008, 01:06:24 PM
Right now my thoughts are to build a Torque Monster that would get 25 mpg and put that into The Nyb.

And YES!!! I'm interested in the logs.  Lemme grab the parts book and see if they're the same... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Commando12008-09-01 18:08:40
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 02, 2008, 08:08:53 AM
Pulling it apart, it looks pretty clean inside (so far).
 
Strange thing about the heads.  One is the correct # for a 73 MH head.  The other is for a std. '74 head.
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2rqzyv7.jpg)
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 03, 2008, 07:00:59 AM
Got the tranny and a few more parts off before mama called me for something....
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09032008.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 03, 2008, 03:54:54 PM
I don't know if anybody mentioned that the oil pan and pickup tube will have to be swapped from truck to car application.
IIRC,the oil dipstick tube is different as well..Some trucks had the tube going into the pan.
Luckily yours goes through the block--like a car.
Motor does look clean.
CBarge2008-09-03 20:56:09
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 04, 2008, 01:44:58 AM
I knew about the pan.  Maybe I'll get one of those Milodoon 10 qt. jobs.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
I'm a little confused about the damper, though.  I understand there's about 14 different dampers for the 440 and to use all my current accesories it has to be the exact one.  I dunno.  I'll research that further down the line.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 04, 2008, 07:24:32 AM
The damper--or harmonic balancer-can be reused provided that it is not separating or cracking.
Just swap out the pulleys to match your car.
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 04, 2008, 07:45:52 AM
Quote from: CBarge
Just swap out the pulleys to match your car.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 07, 2008, 11:23:17 AM
I decided to sell the tranny. 
Got 150 bucks for it.
 
$400 - 150 = $250  net for the motor (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/boogie.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 07, 2008, 03:32:36 PM
That 150. can get you a new set of gaskets for the motor.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 13, 2008, 01:03:35 PM
For doing motorhome duty all its life, this engine is CLEAN.
All 8 plugs were that picture perfect light brown.
Just a little carbon buildup on the valves.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09132008%20004.jpg)
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09132008%20001.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 21, 2008, 07:24:43 AM
Stripped th4e block down bare and it's been nothing but EXCELLENT news so far...
 
1.  The crank IS the forged steel one, and, only needs the journals turned .010
2   The rods & pistons are excellent
3.  The cylinders only need to be honed.
 
I think I'm going to have to rename this to: 440OAB.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09212008%20005.jpg)
Commando12008-09-21 12:27:11
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 21, 2008, 07:40:22 AM
How about RB-OAB? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
When I rebuilt my 440 in the CBarge,it cost 2500.
$800.00 of that was getting the heads done.
My buddy and I did the teardown and re-assembly.I farmed out the machine work and it was cheap.
RB parts are NOT cheap.But when going that far with the engine quality parts do go a long way.Get really good rings,and bearings at around 185.00 and 300.00 respectfully..
Cloyes timing chains are worth every penny.I am using one in my 440.
Cost is around 125.00 for the set.
Cam and lifters set around $335.00
 
CBarge2008-09-21 12:53:03
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 21, 2008, 12:41:48 PM
Trust me.  Any replacement parts are going to  be well established brand names.  No generic or private label stuff.
 
Is Ed Iskenderian still in business?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on September 21, 2008, 05:01:32 PM
Not only is Ed in bizness...he's still alive and a spry 87 years old (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)

http://www.iskycams.com/history.html (http://www.iskycams.com/history.html)




Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2008, 05:02:18 PM
440-OAB is becoming 440-O(ver)B...
 
So far:
Block acid dipped, honed , plugs and cam bearings installed,
new valves, seats, and 3 angle grind,
crank turned..........................................................................700.00
Master rebuild kit, fuel, oil, and water pumps........................700.00
Cam.........................................................................................50.00
Engine mounts.........................................................................50.00
Exhaust manifolds....................................................................50.00
 
Cam, timing chain, crank and pistons installed.
Then everything came to a screeching halt because I forgot to order an oil slinger ($7.00) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/101308%20003.jpg)
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on October 13, 2008, 05:30:20 PM
D'oh!  Dontcha HATE it when little things like that get over looked? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 17, 2008, 12:29:22 PM
I especially hate it when because of my stupidity, the shipping costs more than the part....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2008, 05:55:06 AM
You know, I was just thinking
 
That motor will run cooler.  A good thing in Florida.  The extra steam holes allow more water flow through the block.
 
Have you thought about a windage tray in the oil pan?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2008, 10:22:50 AM
Well, Steve, I too was thinking.  Kept me up a few nights worring about it. So, to check to make sure, I had to pull the crank and, YEP, I was right, I installed the rear main seal backwards.  Good thing I checked.
 
That set me back this morning a while. Finally I got to install the OIL SLINGER, fuel pump, oil pickup, timing chain cover, and harmonic damper.  I went to install the windage tray and oil pan and...............
 
I thought the oil pans were similiar and they weren't!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Summit:
Milodoon oil pan...................
 
and since I was there...
 
Edelbrock intake and carb.........$750.00
 
Now it's  440-W(ay)O(ver)B
 
Commando12008-10-18 15:25:20
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 18, 2008, 12:35:52 PM
Not it's not! Factor in the fact that you didn't have to bore it and fork over for forged pistons!

It's 440A(bout)O(n)B(udget)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2008, 05:17:53 PM
I can't imagine you tossing and turning.  It's a good thing you can
 
POLARACO2008-10-18 22:18:15
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 19, 2008, 03:44:31 AM
Is that like drilling holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water out?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 19, 2008, 06:05:53 AM
Believe it or not, sail boats have such a thing
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 21, 2008, 12:57:28 PM
Why does the last 20% take 80% of the time?
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/102108%20001.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2008, 01:25:19 PM

Because you're like Bob...  Anal  thorough    (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) stitcherbob2008-10-21 20:31:35
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 23, 2008, 06:34:19 AM
I screwed up again. 
I modified my oil pickup for the new Milodon stock pan and now it won't clear the baffles.  <groan> Order a new Milodon oil pickup.
 
Played with the new Holley carb.  Found out I need a special throttle linkage adaptor. <groan, groan> Order a new throttle linkage adaptor....
 
At least I got the $%#@  thing painted.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/102308%20001.jpg)
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09032008.jpg)
 
 Commando12008-10-23 11:37:53
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 23, 2008, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Commando1
I screwed up again. 
I modified my oil pickup for the new Milodon stock pan and now it won't clear the baffles.  <groan> Order a new Milodon oil pickup.
 
Played with the new Holley carb.  Found out I need a special throttle linkage adaptor. <groan, groan> Order a new throttle linkage adaptor....
 
At least I got the $%#@  thing painted.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/102308%20001.jpg)
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/09032008.jpg)
 
 
 
That's too neat a job for you to have done.  Pamula's the painter int he family.  She must have done it (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 24, 2008, 11:48:03 AM
I can be neat when given enough room to be messy...
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/102408%20002.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 29, 2008, 02:05:37 PM
Niggling little details.... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)  You're right Steve, I'm anal!
 


(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/102908.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 29, 2008, 03:09:05 PM
YUK!  You put those Summit Decals on there. . . .

Did they give you anythig besides the decals to do that?????


Now what are you doing with that other 440?


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 29, 2008, 03:10:25 PM
That fuel filter is right smack dab where the alternator is going to be
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 29, 2008, 04:41:15 PM
That freakin double pumper is giving me fits on how to route that fuel line.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 29, 2008, 04:43:04 PM
Quote from: POLARACO


Now what are you doing with that other 440?

I told you a gazillion times....
I don't know!!
I'll throw it on Craig's List I guess.
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on October 30, 2008, 04:44:11 PM
Hey, at least you got the Summit sticker placed just right (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 03, 2008, 12:57:45 PM
And the Holley sticker too....
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/110308%20003.jpg)
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 12, 2008, 03:52:20 PM
OK.  Motor is all finished. Pulled the tranny.
Next:  pull the old motor and swip in the new.
 
Commando12008-11-13 14:52:56
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Mike on November 15, 2008, 07:27:14 AM
Hey Stan, Are you going to use the original 727 trans with that new rebuilt 440? Donate the old 440 to Mobby I'm sure it wouldnt hurt.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 15, 2008, 07:50:00 AM
Mobby's outta luck. I put the old motor on Craig's List Thur. night at 4:30 and had it sold ($250) an hour later.  Jeeez, youse guyz.  I posted it up for grabs a month ago and nobody wanted it.
 
And yep.  Using the original 727 that's in there now.  After pulling it, I saw that the front and rear seals were bone dry so I said "if it ain't broke..."  Besides, don't forget that WOB now stands for way over budget. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
 
Anybody know where I can get CORK! oil pan gaskets for the 727? I can't find'em....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2008, 09:17:11 AM
I told you I would take it. . . I was even planning on when to pick it up and changed the plans.  Remember?
 
Sheeesh  I gotta' put everything in writing.  Or did I catch you when you had one too many Iron Guts. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 15, 2008, 09:49:35 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I told you I would take it. . . I was even planning on when to pick it up and changed the plans.  Remember?
 
 
Must have been!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2008, 04:25:28 PM
Oh well. . .I'll live  Sniff Sniff (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)
 
At least you made some money on it.  But I have to tell you, it was worth 3 times that.
 
Ok  Time for the famous question
 
Is it done yet? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2008, 03:57:19 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
At least you made some money on it.  But I have to tell you, it was worth 3 times that.
 
What planet do you live on??  250 bucks is the going rate for a tired 440 with a cast crank.  I was lucky to get it.  Especially here a zillion miles away.  Can't ship those things ya know.
Or haven't you heard..there's a recession going on.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Commando12008-11-16 09:03:22
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 16, 2008, 07:03:10 AM
What's Wrong with you! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)  You drove my space ship (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

I thought it was a forged crank.  Sorry
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 17, 2008, 04:45:22 AM
My friend down here had a 413 for so long, he couldn't give it away.
He finally put a glass top on it and it's his coffee table now...
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 17, 2008, 12:37:05 PM
OK.  All the hard work is done.  I've run out of money except to buy beer and BBQ wings.
Who's gonna be here to help me do the swap?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/111708%20003.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Matt Aker on November 17, 2008, 12:52:00 PM
I'd love to come help you Stan...  I wish I could!  I'd bring some snow with me as a gift to you!
 
That engine and tranny look NICE (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 17, 2008, 01:11:01 PM
Just leave the rock salt in PA   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 17, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
Is it done yet?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 18, 2008, 10:36:00 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Is it done yet?
 
Sheesh.  I'm only one person....
 
And yah!  I pulled the old tired 440 today.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/111808%20004.jpg)
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/111808%20002.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 22, 2008, 10:07:21 AM
All bolted up and ready to rock & roll
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/112208.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 22, 2008, 06:16:33 PM
Don't take me wrong. . .
 
What possesed you to paint the oil pan gold?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on November 22, 2008, 06:36:35 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Don't take me wrong. . .
 
 
And..............what kind of oil filter is that??? PLEASE tell me its NOT an AC Delco!!!!!!
 
Gold oil pan makes it look like a Moroso pan IMHO!!!
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2008, 03:11:54 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Don't take me wrong. . .  

It came that way from Milodon.
(How did you know I was possesed? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) )
 
Quote from: ardog
And..............what kind of oil filter is that??? PLEASE tell me its NOT an AC Delco!!!!!!
 
The parts store was all out of Frantz toilet paper filters....
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) 
 
 
 
 
Commando12008-11-23 08:15:06
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 23, 2008, 04:39:34 AM
Quote from: Commando1
 
(How did you know I was possesed? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) )



I've been there . . remember?   I been having these strange voices since
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 23, 2008, 07:34:26 AM
When do the Mickey Thompson finned aluminum valve covers go on Stan???

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2008, 12:53:27 PM
Quote from: stitcherbob
When do the Mickey Thompson finned aluminum valve covers go on Stan???
I hate them!!!
 
Stock STEEL stamped valve covers are the best.  They  always  fit right and never crack.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2008, 08:35:41 AM
Crap I'll help you drop that engine in, I've done 2 with Steve already. We will be done and running with plenty of time for Beer and Wings.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2008, 08:41:12 AM
Then be here Wednesday morning at 10:00 AM sharp.
Should be done by 10:15.  Right?  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/PlumGrin.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2008, 08:43:12 AM
You know it Stan, We'll be hitting the highway by 10:25. Next time I head down to FLA I'll have to stop by. How far are you from Naples?

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2008, 08:57:16 AM
2-1/2 hrs.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2008, 08:59:28 AM
Ah thats not bad, Close enough to boogie on over and say hello and check out the fleet. 

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2008, 11:28:29 AM
[color=#ffff00 size=6]Live! From Sebring, FL....[/color]
Wednesday, Novevember 26, 2008 @ 10:00 AM EST
The 440-WOB installation will be LIVE on the web
_______________________________________________
 
View the live webcam at:
 
http://www.moparhemi.com/webcam/webcam.htm (http://www.moparhemi.com/webcam/webcam.htm)
 
_______________________________________________
 
 
Chicken wings & cold soda served during installation.
Commando12008-11-24 16:29:46
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 24, 2008, 11:54:01 AM
I love watching pictures with nothing going on but an occasional flying beer can
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: attkrlufy on November 26, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
Aaaarrgh!  I remembered the transmission as 10PM today not 10AM....darn it!  I'm 12 hrs off! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif)

I really wanted to watch you work on it, too. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2008, 07:17:57 PM
Sten really needs to broaden his vocabulary when doing that stuff. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/d/eye.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 27, 2008, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Sten really needs to broaden his vocabulary when doing that stuff. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
I only had to scream out "G(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif) D(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif) M(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif) F(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif)" once.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Yep.  It's in.
I could have knocked 2 full hours off the installation if I had left off the tranny crossmember in the first place.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 27, 2008, 05:15:30 AM
And they get more Stubborn as they get older too
 
Sorry I'm going to miss you. . .
 
I'll be in St Augustine, Tues to Thursday
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2008, 10:29:13 PM
Guys: I   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif)'d up but good! 
I'm so sick I can't sleep. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)
 
The 440WOB is too TIGHT.  The starter (tested and 100% OK) doesn't have the cajones to budge it.
 
I put a breaker bar onto the front of the crank and it takes three men and a boy to turn it.
 
Going back over the rebuild, step by step, I can't figure out where it "went tight".
It rotated freely after the timing chain installation. 
I also remember rotating the engine to get the #1 cylinder to TDC to install the dizzy.
 
Somewhere between that point and the final buttoning up, something went wrong.
 
 
Commando12008-11-30 04:35:16
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on November 30, 2008, 02:58:33 AM
Some thoughts Stan. Was the engine completely assembled when it was turning freely? Did it turn  complete revolutions? What did you install after that? Did the tranny bolt up easily without binding? Starter motor jammed against the flywheel? Pull the plugs and see if its easier without compression. Were you missing any empty beer cans after the install?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)   67Newport2008-11-30 07:59:37
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2008, 03:20:48 AM
Quote from: 67Newport
Pull the plugs and see if its easier without compression.   
That was going to be the first thing on my to do list Monday morning.
But I need a day away from this thing first.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 01, 2008, 08:45:29 AM
I have a ray of sunlight to report.
I pulled the inspection cover off the bellhousing and using my handy-dandy pry bar, I can turn the motor by grabbing onto the starter ring around the TC.
 
I'm going to pull the starter next....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 01, 2008, 07:02:40 PM
Please find the problem soon...that avatar is heart breaking! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 02, 2008, 01:52:05 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 02, 2008, 10:12:22 AM
Woo-hoo!.  The engine is turning over nicely now.  (http://www.moparhemi.com/Gallery/TheStanleyDance.gif)
 
 
What was the problem?  Bad relay. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
 
Got some massive backfirig though.  I'm willing to bet it's 180 degrees out.  But I'm tired.  Time for  a Steel Reserve rotgut brewski.  I'll get back to it in the morning.
 
(http://www.moparhemi.com/440%20Engine%20Rebuild/120208%20004.jpg)
 
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Matt Aker on December 02, 2008, 01:35:07 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)  Way to go Stan!  It's always something trivial....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on December 02, 2008, 04:09:27 PM
Now heres a true Mopar guy. He posts at 3:30 in the morning because he can't sleep over a problem. 67Newport2008-12-02 21:10:26
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on December 02, 2008, 05:02:49 PM
I did not sleep last night trying to think of what it could be.Even Polaraco was on the phone with me puzzled by this too.
I am glad you found it Stan.
I knew it was something stupid or simple.


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: CBarge
I knew it was something stupid...
 
Stupid is as stupid does. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2ih5ks1.jpg)
 
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 02:31:47 AM
Quote from: CBarge
I did not sleep last night trying to think of what it could be.Even Polaraco was on the phone with me puzzled by this too.


 
What a great bunch of guys we got here.
Steve and Al (67newport) have been on the phone with me.
I've gotten PM's and emails from guys helping me out.
So many guys have chipped in it's embarrassing...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
 
Gawd.  I love this place.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 08:27:01 AM
It's alive.  It's alive!!





(http://centralsnark.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/young-frankenstein.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Guests on December 03, 2008, 08:47:24 AM
[color=#ffff99 size=7]  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)[/color]
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 10:13:22 AM
[TUBE]Yl7_XRj98zY[/TUBE]
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 03, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
Show off
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on December 03, 2008, 01:47:04 PM
GOOD JOB Stan!!!! You da man!!! Hey........"Stan the man" NEW NAME!!!!
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on December 03, 2008, 01:53:01 PM
Ahhhhh....you can finally get some sleep....so can we. Ok what project can you start next so we can all follow along? How about a tranny rebuild??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on December 03, 2008, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: 67Newport
Ahhhhh....you can finally get some sleep....so can we. Ok what project can you start next so we can all follow along? How about a tranny rebuild??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
That's a given...
With all that new found power in front of it--it is only a matter of time...KABOOM!
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on December 03, 2008, 02:53:22 PM
Very sano installation job!!!  OK, so time for education - was the
bad relay just not passing on current enough to turn it over ? In other
words, there was no internal binding causing the slow turn over.? ..
inquiring minds want to know....

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: firedome
Very sano installation job!!!  OK, so time for education - was the bad relay just not passing on current enough to turn it over ? In other words, there was no internal binding causing the slow turn over.? .. inquiring minds want to know....
 
When the relay decides to work on occaission, the motor spins over like a top.
Relay  will be in tomorrow.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 03, 2008, 03:55:13 PM
But But
 
You said you had to really pull on it with a breaker bar. . . .
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 03, 2008, 07:37:19 PM
Anyone else notice the Mobby pose Stan gave when it fired? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 03, 2008, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
But But ... 
You said you had to really pull on it with a breaker bar. . . .
Maybe only the front half was tight.... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
Quote from: stitcherbob
Anyone else notice the Mobby pose Stan gave when it fired? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Ah...you noticed. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2008, 07:27:02 AM
I can't wait to hear the latest saga
 
What's with the vibration?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 10, 2008, 10:09:23 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I can't wait to hear the latest saga  
What's with the vibration?
End of saga.  There is no more.  I'm tired and I want to do some landscaping.
The vibration?  I've rehashed it a gazillion times on external causes and everything is by the book.  So it HAS to be internal.
 
And if it is internal......
That's the way it's gonna stay unless you personally come done here and do a teardown. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
Excuse me while I clean and put away my tools.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2008, 10:31:26 AM
Sure. . .I'll come down, but you need to get some people beer first.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 10, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Sure. . .I'll come down, but you need to get some people beer first.
Are you casting aspersions on Matt's favorite beer? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on December 10, 2008, 10:34:22 AM
Stan, Is it a steady vibration or does it change with engine speed? Is it still there if the car is in neutral? Did you mark the torque converter position to the flywheel when you dis-assembled it? I found that a vibration can occur if they are not put back the same way they came out.  It can also eat up your front tranny seal.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 10, 2008, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: 67Newport
Stan, Is it a steady vibration or does it change with engine speed?
Vibration increase in direct proprtion to RPMs.
 
Is it still there if the car is in neutral?
Yes.
 
Did you mark the torque converter position to the flywheel when you dis-assembled it? I found that a vibration can occur if they are not put back the same way they came out.  It can also eat up your front tranny seal.
Flywheel???? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
 
How about you Al. Must be getting cold.  Real cold.  LOL.  You wanna come down to warm & sunny Florida and do a teardown?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2008, 10:51:02 AM
Baston has warmer weather than we do.
 
He can come here, and we'll go together.  But wait for February.  That will be the best time for a warm up.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on December 10, 2008, 12:25:56 PM
Flywheel...flexplate...tomato...tomahto same diff. I'm still stuck in a 4 spd world. Pull the cover off and see if the "FLEXPLATE" or converter has any runout. Look at the damper and see if its running true. Exhaust loose at the manifold flange? Other than that anything else I can think of is inside.  Listen with a stethoscope and see if you can isolate a location.
 
60 degrees up here today.  I know...still cold by your "new" standards.  You can get my expert opinion in person and hear me rehash all the things you've probably already thought of for the price of a plane ticket.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2008, 12:53:58 PM
Hell Al
 
I was gonna drive you!  And all Stan had to do was get some real beer!!!
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 10, 2008, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: 67Newport
Pull the cover off and see if the "FLEXPLATE" or converter has any runout.
Unless I put a dial indicator on it, none that I can see.
 
Look at the damper and see if its running true.
It is.
 
Exhaust loose at the manifold flange?
Tight as a ....
 
Other than that anything else I can think of is inside.  
That's what I said!
 
Listen with a stethoscope and see if you can isolate a location.
And, YES, I even did that believe it or not.
 
 
I'm telling ya guys, a NASCAR engine builder couldn't have gone more "by the book" than I did...
 
I must have mixed up a rod/piston assembly osr something like that.
 
Commando12008-12-10 18:13:10
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2008, 01:30:15 PM
I was thinking of a fluid damper. . .good choice
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on December 10, 2008, 01:51:13 PM
If it is any consolation......
After rebuilding my 440 it took a couple of days running it to get it to smooth out .
It ran rough,then smooth.The idle was up and down.yet it pulled great under a load.
I drove it for six hours non-stop to Toronto and back to seat the rings.
Then two days later I drove 1200 miles North for a two week holiday.12 hours drive one way with a loaded trailer and car.!!
Needless to say,she was broke in then!!
CBarge2008-12-10 18:52:23
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 10, 2008, 03:13:56 PM
Quote from: CBarge
If it is any consolation......
After rebuilding my 440 it took a couple of days running it to get it to smooth out .
It ran rough,then smooth.The idle was up and down.yet it pulled great under a load.
I drove it for six hours non-stop to Toronto and back to seat the rings.
Then two days later I drove 1200 miles North for a two week holiday.12 hours drive one way with a loaded trailer and car.!!
Needless to say,she was broke in then!!
 
Good advice, Lea.  That is what I was going to do anyway.  let her break in for 1200 or so miles first.  I know the chrome-moly rings aren't even close to being seated yet because I'm drawing 115 lbs. vacuum right across the board (at least all the cylinders are the same).
 
After that, I'll think about the fluid damper.
 
I do know one thing....
I am NOT tearing that suckah down again.  I'll live with it or sell it first.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Bill Mounteer on December 10, 2008, 06:40:59 PM
Great thread Stan, I wish there were some "helpers" at this end of the country.

This most likely doesn't apply to a Mopar, but on the off chance that it does, it might have something to do with your vibration.  When I redid the transmission on my Scout I decided to swap on a new flywheel. When everything was back together I found a metal ring about 5" in diam and about 1/16" thick still on the bench. I hung it on the wall. Shortly I discovered a distinct vibration and that my mystery ring installs like a giant washer between the flywheel and the end of the crank. The Scout shop manual even had a nice picture of my mystery part and called it a vibration damper. The engine had the normal damper on the front. That was 20 years ago and the damper is still hanging on the wall and the Scout has been turned into soup cans. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

I don't know if your engine has the same deal.


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 10, 2008, 07:11:31 PM
I'll bet the rubber in his vibration dampner is going bad....when they get old they can peel and then the outer ring moves .

I'd try a new stock unit before stepping up to an expensive race item.......


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 11, 2008, 02:50:40 AM
Bill:
 No leftover parts here except for a 5 gal. pail of the dirtiest mineral spirits you've ever seen... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
 
Bob:
If I have to go through all that grief to replace the damper, another few bucks on the fluid damper is cheap insurance in my eyes.  Besides, it's already 440-WOB, remember??   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Bill Mounteer on December 11, 2008, 11:56:00 AM
If there is some sort of mechanical problem, wouldn't a fancy gel damper just mask the problem and allow it to develop into something more serious?  I think you really need to get a better handle on the cause before you try to fix it.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 11, 2008, 03:36:12 PM
In this case I look at the damper as a cure rather than a bandaid.  If I put 25 miles on it a week, I'm lucky. It's not a DD nor is it B-J auction material.  It's my hobby and my therapy.  If I was pro racing, yuh, I'd have that engine out again and torn down in a heartbeat.  I've been through a lot the last cupla years and I have discovered how to enjoy my cars rather than become obsessed with them.

You make an excellent point for 99.8% of the time.  But this time I'm the .2%
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 11, 2008, 04:24:50 PM
I am not your HOBBY!
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on December 11, 2008, 04:47:26 PM
Did you use the damper off the 73 crank? or the 76 crank??
They are different since the cranks are different.
Just a thought
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 11, 2008, 11:47:31 PM
Used the damper from the '73 crank.
Like you suggested earlier, I'm going to let her break in and see what happens.
Trouble is it might take me 2 years to reach 1000 miles. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)



 
Side note:  What I never got around to talking about is how she runs.
WOW!
When cold, one pump, a twist of the key and she immediately roars to life.
Power is awesome.  Smooth linear pull from standing start right up to as far as I dare go with a new engine. Secondaries open right on que. WHHHAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa....
No bog.  No hesitation. No burps, coughs, farts, nothing.  I got me a real torque monster here.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Butch Houghton on December 12, 2008, 06:03:44 AM
Just a thought,  we've had some where it took a couple of days of driving it some to get all the lifters pumped up & smooth out.

Maybe that's all it is.   Have you got a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it.?   I always run a gauge  for a day or two to watch oil pressure before putting the stock senders back in.

Butch


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: George Blaine on December 18, 2008, 12:22:27 PM
If you used the cast crank torque converter with a steel crank engine, you will have a vibration. Don't know if the weights can be knocked off with trans still atached though. Hope this is not the case. It will knock the bearings out of your new motor at some point if not fixed. Hope this helps.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 18, 2008, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: cptn60
If you used the cast crank torque converter with a steel crank engine, you will have a vibration. Don't know if the weights can be knocked off with trans still atached though. Hope this is not the case. It will knock the bearings out of your new motor at some point if not fixed. Hope this helps.
 
I did knock the weights off, as was discussed in a separate thread.
Tomorrow morning, I'm putting it up on the lift.  I will take off the torque converter inspection plate, run the motor and see if anything looks amiss.  I will also applying weights  (magnets) to see if that will smooth it out.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on December 19, 2008, 05:34:29 AM
How are you going to start it with the converter off the flexplate? 
 
You got one of those things on yer head for a pull start?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 19, 2008, 07:31:46 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
How are you going to start it with the converter off the flexplate? 
 
 
Reread the post      S - L - O - W - L - Y !
 
Where does it say I'm going to detach the TC from the flexplate? (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/toetap05.gif)
 
Now go to the vibration thread...  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/spanky.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 04, 2009, 05:50:53 AM
Well, I thought it was not going to be pretty.
This just about confirms that "kaboom" I heard last week. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2wqzc5z.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2009, 06:04:00 AM
It still doesn't mean the motor is wrecked.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 04, 2009, 06:25:11 AM
I'm awaiting some medical tests to come back before I decide if it's trash time or a re-rebuild
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2009, 01:26:55 PM
Medical Tests?
 
Don't you mean an expiatory?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 05, 2009, 02:51:36 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Medical Tests?
 
WTF is an expiatory?
 
Commando12009-07-05 08:00:40
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 07, 2009, 08:09:20 AM
OK.  I dropped the pan this morning.
It's trash.
The #2 rod let go and curled up like a pretzel.  The piston is shattered and there's a few chunks taken out of the counterweights of the crank.
 
I'm selling the car.  I don't have the money to fix it.
 
(http://i27.tinypic.com/2cp7z2r.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on July 07, 2009, 12:35:36 PM
Sorry to see it got toasted Stan... is it me or does it seem the big
blocks have more than their share of bottom end problems...I had a spun
bearing on 2 of them and only ever owned 3.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 07, 2009, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: firedome
Sorry to see it got toasted Stan... is it me or does it seem the big blocks have more than their share of bottom end problems...I had a spun bearing on 2 of them and only ever owned 3.
I'm starting to think along the same lines.  This is also #3 for me.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 07, 2009, 02:50:31 PM
***** Polaraco whistles quietly to himself******
 
I have been trying to get away from BB's for a long time
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 08, 2009, 02:36:52 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
***** Polaraco whistles quietly to himself******
 
Shaddup you....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on July 08, 2009, 05:40:59 AM
Ya, I'm hoping the BB in my '58 is durable - I've heard the 350 and the
361s are darn near bulletproof- lots of meat in the bottom end and
block for relatively small displacement.  I'm thinking they were
at their outer limits when pumped all the way up to 440 cu in. 

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 08, 2009, 12:01:48 PM
The 361-383 are very stout and have a good rod/stroke ratio (1.88 to 1) so there is not a lot of side loading--good for bore wear and stress on the rods.  The big 440 still has a very good rod/stroke ratio (1.8 to 1) but it is just low enough that it can put too much load on those little 3/8" rod bolts at high rpm.

Basically, if you want to spin your 440 fast (above 5,000 for any length of time) it needs aftermarket rods with BIG bolts and maybe a main cap girdle too. The huge mains (2.75")have a too high a bearing speed above 5,000rpm, so if you've got any cap walk at all you'll spin a bearing and risk detonating the engine. If I'm doing a complete rebuild on an RB it gets new rods with ARP bolts. 383's will do with just the new bolts.

From the photos it looks like the WOB broke a rod bolt.


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on July 08, 2009, 01:04:13 PM
Wow!  I'm so sorry to see the wreckage. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 21, 2009, 07:19:48 AM
Well, I'm probably the only person in the south stupid enough to pull an engine in the dog days  of summer.  But my my pal Lance The Destroyer embarrassed me into it.
Here we go again.............
 
 
(http://i25.tinypic.com/1216aug.jpg)
 
 
I think my cheapest option right now is a reman shortblock.  I'm gonna start checking prices.
Commando12009-07-21 12:21:30
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Snotty on July 21, 2009, 09:08:12 AM
Don't bump into that thing!!!
 


I'm not a big safety nut, but that looks scary to me Stan.  Isn't there a better way to stand it?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 21, 2009, 09:21:19 AM
Forgeddabouddit
 
The block now is trash................. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)
 
(http://i26.tinypic.com/ampnom.jpg)
 
 
Quote from: Snotty
Don't bump into that thing!!!
 I'm not a big safety nut, but that looks scary to me Stan.  Isn't there a better way to stand it?
 
Commando12009-07-21 14:24:19
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on July 21, 2009, 03:23:49 PM
How do you see the chain of events happening? The rod could have let go and the piston jammed in the top of the cylinder and a valve slammed into it and snapped the camshaft which destroyed the lifters and valley. I suppose it could have started on the top end too if a lifter imploded and jammed the cam and forced a valve into the piston which bent the rod. Have you pulled the head to see what the top of the piston and the valves look like? 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 21, 2009, 04:07:14 PM
The tops of the pistons and the valves/heads look fine.
 
I can't figure out what happened.  All I know is the end result which is total mass destruction at the front of the block from the #2 cylinder.  If I HAD to make a guess....
Commando12009-07-21 21:07:35
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 21, 2009, 06:30:48 PM
Shock
 
The rod let go and there was so much inertia in the cam it let go from the shock.  Scene it before.
 
If the block is good, you can get a cam, crank and rod and save it.
 
POLARACO2009-07-21 23:39:42
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 21, 2009, 06:47:10 PM
let's see the rest of the cam. . .BTW where is it?
 
The other option is the can shattered and broke the rod. . .   But the piece would have to be small enough to fall through.
 
I love forensics.  As an investigator, I used to get my man every time too.
 
POLARACO2009-07-21 23:48:40
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 21, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
As a former engine builder I have seen my share of catastrophic engine failures. Most makes have a specific inherent problem IE: big block Ford main bearing oil holes are poorly drilled and seldom line up the the oil holes in the bearing shells. Big block Pontiacs have huge 3 1/4" mains that have too much bearing speed at high rpm and they spin the bearings, etc.

Big block Mopars, aside from the oil galley issue, attempt to pull the wrist pins out of the pistons at high rpm. This streches the rods, which then fail by either breaking the bolts or breaking the rod right at the weak point at the upper bolt hole.  Mopar made special rods to help hold the high revving six- pack engines together, not to mention the extremely beefy hemi rods with huge 7/16" bolts.  Basically, the long stroke RB blocks weren't meant to be spun much above 5,500 rpm without the better rods. The short stroke 361-383's don't seem to suffer from this problem nearly as
much as the 440's do, mainly because of their greater rod length to stroke
ratio, which reduces the side load on both the rods and pistons, plus you get less wear on the bores too.  So, if you're doing a complete rebuild why not spend an extra $600 and get new rods with ARP bolts ... it will save you a lot of cash and heartburn in the long run.


High revving Mopars will also spin the main bearings due to cap walk - even the cross bolted ones. The solution to this problem is to install a main bearing girdle, but it is not really needed unless you're racing.


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 21, 2009, 10:01:00 PM
I forgot to add that the best way to scatter your 440's guts all over the road is to enter a burn out contest. The repeated cycling of high rpm (while the tires are spinning) with the sudden low rpm (as the tires grab) puts an enormous strain on those skinny little 3/8" rod bolts, which can break suddenly ruining your day. You can do straight line burnouts all day, because the car will eventually pick up enough speed to stop the tire spinning, but going around in circles keeping the tires spinning is a recipe for disaster.

It is very similar to the stresses seen in off-road racing engines. They're airborne one moment with the engine revving at red line, the next they're on the ground with the rpms dropping a few thousand in an instant -- best recipe in the world to snap a rod bolt.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 22, 2009, 01:04:51 AM
Quote from: krautmaster
So, if you're doing a complete rebuild why not spend an extra $600 and get new rods with ARP bolts ... it will save you a lot of cash and heartburn in the long run.



Why not aluminum heads, sodium filled valves, H-beam rods, coated pistons, machined  lifter bores....
 
It's all relative, my friend.
Had I been building an engine for the strip, of course you go all out .
This was for a lumbering street engine towing around a barge.
 
As far as I am concerned, I cut no corners and the build was meticulous in quality and detail.  I sweated the small stuff.  As in any engine build, assumptions are made from experience and advice from the Best & The Brightest. 
 
I would do it again the same way.  It was just the luck of the draw.  I take  full responsibilty.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Tom Dawson on July 22, 2009, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: krautmaster
So, if you're doing a complete rebuild why not spend an extra $600 and get new rods with ARP bolts ... it will save you a lot of cash and heartburn in the long run.



Why not aluminum heads, sodium filled valves, H-beam rods, coated pistons, machined  lifter bores....
 
It's all relative, my friend.
Had I been building an engine for the strip, of course you go all out .
This was for a lumbering street engine towing around a barge.
 
As far as I am concerned, I cut no corners and the build was meticulous in quality and detail.  I sweated the small stuff.  As in any engine build, assumptions are made from experience and advice from the Best & The Brightest. 
 

Takes a real man to own up to a fault-total respect from me Stan, as for what happened, to me looks like the rod just did not want to stay in its place. I saw this before, a very good friend of mine went thru 2 440's in his 71 Duster drag car(ran mid to high 9's) the first was
using a set of good H-beam rods, #2 rod let go after not even 50 passes(almost lost the car on that pass, oil on track, rod pieces cut L/R slick). The second motor, using beefy
aluminium rods let go at 100 passes(aluminium rods are good for 200 passes) trashing
the whole motor again. Both times car had full oil pressure, rod just let go trashing the motor. Good luck putting her back together Stan-You have one NY I would love to have(maybe next year I can make you an offer)
furyman672009-07-22 14:44:31
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 22, 2009, 10:04:21 AM
Yes, it is a shame when your motor lets go, especially since you did your best. For some reason when Mopars let go it is almost always the #2 rod. Their must be some inherent flexing (or lack thereof) of the crank in that area that aids in them breaking. The #3 will run out of oil and spin the bearing and then blow, but that has to do with the oil galley not supplying it with enough oil.

I'm curious as to the circumstances when it blew, as you can see the bearing wasn't the problem, but most likely the bolt breaking. Were you on it hard with it revved way up, or had you just got out of the pedal (that is when they usually let go)? It would be good info for the rest of us so we could avoid similar circumstances.


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 22, 2009, 10:27:22 AM
[/QUOTE]

I was hard into into it.  I backed off to let it do a 1-2 upshift.  Then I got into it again.  A few seconds later it blew without warning.
 
I did a complete teardown this morning.  Even the crank is shot.  Brought it to the junkie...
 
(http://fruitybachelor.com/uploaded_images/anchor-medium-732777.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Snotty on July 22, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
Sorry to hear it Stan.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2009, 12:26:58 PM
So I gues you want this 440 I have here?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2009, 12:29:43 PM
Look at it this way.  The only thing you need to do is the bottom end again.  The rest, heads, intake, carb, valve covers and so on are useable. 
 
Let me know. . .but it won't be until  September.  Lemme think.  2 cases of Iron gut and fuel.  ..LOL
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 22, 2009, 01:30:09 PM
Steve:  you are more than generous and I thank you.   You have no idea how I appreciate it.
I'm holding off right now on doing anything (  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif) ) although I may go the route AL (67Newport) did and recommended to me.  I can get a crate engine from Marshall Engines, a 440 w/steel crank, no core, delivered, tax included for $2200.  Comes w/3 year guarantee.  Man, that's hard to beat...
Gotta see if my Discover Card doesn't go up in flames.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 22, 2009, 02:16:03 PM

Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: krautmaster
I'm curious as to the circumstances when it blew, as you can see the bearing wasn't the problem, but most likely the bolt breaking. Were you on it hard with it revved way up, or had you just got out of the pedal (that is when they usually let go)? It would be good info for the rest of us so we could avoid similar circumstances.

I was hard into into it.  I backed off to let it do a 1-2 upshift.  Then I got into it again.  A few seconds later it blew without warning.
 
I did a complete teardown this morning.  Even the crank is shot.  Brought it to the junkie...
 


Sounds about par for the course:  on it - off it - on it - ka boom. The rods, just like any other part, have a fatigue life and when its up, its up and there's not much you can do about it. That is the only reason I suggest putting new rods in the RB blocks because you don't know how hard they were run and when their fatigue limit has been reached. I've seen ones that had been magnafluxed break a week later.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on July 24, 2009, 06:46:12 AM
So the advice here is....if you have an unmodified 440 with original rods, you should avoid  mashing the pedal to the floor with a quick let-off???  What about with a standard tranny? Other than power shifting, how can you avoid that cycle? and more importantly, how would you impress the girls if you can't do hard shifts? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 24, 2009, 09:10:19 AM
Not really Al
 
I suspect something else went wrong.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 24, 2009, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Not really Al
 
Ditto.
In all my years I have never heard of that "theory"
 
And as far as impressing the girls,
I'm bald and 60 (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
 
Commando12009-07-24 15:15:13
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 24, 2009, 04:40:23 PM
Stan
 
You never did tell me how many pieces there were to the cam
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 24, 2009, 10:33:15 PM

So the advice here is....if you have an unmodified 440 with original rods, you should avoid  mashing the pedal to the floor with a quick let-off???  What about with a standard tranny? Other than power shifting, how can you avoid that cycle? and more importantly, how would you impress the girls if you can't do hard shifts? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)[/QUOTE]

It would be pretty hard to drive limited like that !!!! - just saying that when the old rods are going go, they go, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 25, 2009, 12:32:37 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Stan
 


The cam broke off three 1 1/2" chunks at the front.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 25, 2009, 06:29:56 AM
OK.  I bought back my original engine from the guy I sold it too.  That was lucky.
Now.....
Do I want to rebuild this one, or,
use it as a trade-in?
 
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2h691cl.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 25, 2009, 06:36:44 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)



I would send the bottom out.  He can magnaflux everything then
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 25, 2009, 07:59:26 AM
I was talking about the engine, you  ^&%$.....
 
Commando12009-07-25 14:26:51
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 25, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
did you save the heads from the other one?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 25, 2009, 01:50:23 PM
Yep (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 25, 2009, 05:36:53 PM
Then my suggestion is, send the bottom to an engine guy and let him assemble it for you.  Have him magnaflux the whole shootin match and have him balance it too.
 
If you don't know a good guy, ask around.  There must  be a good shop around there somewhere.
 
He can do the bottom and you can do the top.  Let him put the cam in too.
 
POLARACO2009-07-25 22:38:37
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 26, 2009, 02:58:10 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I  read that article too and I was surprised.  Goes against everything I ever learned.
But the more I thought about it,  have I ever once heard  someone say to me: "cam bearing went bad...." ?
 
I'm going to to tear down the motor Mon. and see what I've got.  Looks a litle gunky so far...
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 26, 2009, 04:35:29 AM
They make wash tanks for that .  I'm more concerned abotu the rust I saw around that freeze plugPOLARACO2009-07-26 09:36:02
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 26, 2009, 05:11:23 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
.  I'm more concerned abotu the rust I saw around that freeze plug

Nope, just weird lighting.
 
(http://i32.tinypic.com/2lco58h.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 26, 2009, 09:27:00 AM

Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO

I think the article was referencing  Small Block cam bearings. The ones in the big block do not need to be line bored--you just have to press them in so the oil holes line up properly.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Rich on July 26, 2009, 07:13:36 PM

Quote from: krautmaster
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO

I think the article was referencing  Small Block cam bearings. The ones in the big block do not need to be line bored--you just have to press them in so the oil holes line up properly.

My bad--poor memory got me again because I havn't changed cam bearings in ages (they usually don't wear much anyway) . I can remember honing the cam bearing bores in the BLOCK because they were usually too tight and squished the bearings. It was the bearings themselves that were not honed.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on July 27, 2009, 03:59:31 AM
If a block is hot - tanked the cam bearings will be trash....let the machine shop do the LA motors.... B & RB's can be home installed with the proper tool

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 27, 2009, 11:11:36 AM
W.B. Bob. 
Dropping off the block at the machine shop tomorrow.
 
Might as well try this again.....     (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)
 
(http://i26.tinypic.com/34g3cxx.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 27, 2009, 07:40:28 PM
Let them assemble it
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 28, 2009, 02:40:29 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Let them assemble it
Are you casting aspersions on my ability to attach parts properly? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on July 28, 2009, 10:44:07 AM
Here's Stan's new motor during the testing phase.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Sorry Stan I had to share this.
 
[/u][/i][/b]67Newport2009-07-28 15:45:17
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 28, 2009, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
Let them assemble it
Are you casting aspersions on my ability to attach parts properly? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
 
Yep! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Bill Mounteer on July 29, 2009, 03:04:16 PM
Ya Stan, bite the bullet and let them put it together! 

I'm going one step further with mine, it will be completely assembled and taken through the cam break in before I even want to see it. Sure it costs a little extra, but if you let the engine builder assemble, start and break in the cam, then it has a warranty he can't walk away from by saying you did something wrong. I don't know about you, but I assume you are about where I am, old enough to want it done so it can be driven and enjoyed.

I just don't have the energy for pulling engines anymore! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif)



Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 30, 2009, 12:41:03 AM
I have a friend down here who has rebuilt a gazillion engines including farm tractors. 
He even knows how  rebabbit whatever it is you rebabbit.  Whatever rebabbitting is.
He's taking over assembly duties while I supervise. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 30, 2009, 07:49:34 AM
Gawd I haven't done a babbit in decades.  An old timer tought me
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on July 30, 2009, 10:17:43 AM
 If my memory serves me correctly, in the model T era you could make your own bearings by pouring molten babbitt material in the rod and main caps. The caps were then scrapped to get hem close to size and then the crank was put in and spun to get them to the correct size. It may be a little more complicated than that, but that is the general idea I think. 67Newport2009-07-30 15:25:10
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on July 30, 2009, 10:26:59 AM
I just found this.
 
What’s a babbitt?      The babbitt that we use in Model T and  A bearings (along with a host of other antique engines; both gas and steam) is a type of “white metal” bearing material known in industry as “tin-based” babbitt. (as differing from the sometimes softer lead-based babbitt; of which more later) According to records,  the Ford factory used a babbitt of approximately eighty five percent tin, seven percent copper, and seven percent antimony; the balance assumed to be impurities and various alloying agents. At the time, that type of babbitt was simply referred to a “hard pein babbitt”; the term referencing the tensile strength and high ductility* (compared to lead babbitt) of the material and the usual method of post-pour swaging or peining that was employed, not only to seat the babbitt in the journal box, but to compress the babbitt into a harder surface.
Ford accomplished this peining process when; after boring and semi-fitting/finishing the bearing by scraping (of which little was done) the crankshaft was clamped tightly in the new bearings and  the bearings were “burned in.”   More precisely they were “burnISHED in.” This burning in process involved the crankshaft being so tight in the bearings that when revolved by a thirty-horsepower machine the bearings were liberally oiled; the oil was supposed to smoke, or the bearing was considered to be too loose and shims were pulled and the whole process started over until the oil smoked!  
    There have been endless discussions and much derision of this process.  K.R. Wilson was highly critical of it, though not, as we shall see, because it didn’t work but rather because it was at variance with what he sold.  As a mass production method, for this type of bearing, is was an ingenious system!
67Newport2009-07-30 15:31:15
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on July 30, 2009, 01:21:02 PM
Someone did his homework
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on July 30, 2009, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: 67Newport
 
What’s a babbitt?     
Hay Babbit! Babbit!!!
[TUBE]eFC9vnZY93k&feature=related[/TUBE](http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on July 30, 2009, 04:52:18 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 30, 2009, 08:35:44 PM
btw nice pose stan...

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on July 31, 2009, 01:14:53 AM
Quote from: MobStaffCar72
btw nice pose stan...
Who was posing? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 07, 2009, 10:53:06 AM
Ugh.  Bad news today.
 
Machine shop called and said block needs to be bored.
So, since I now have to pop for new pistons, I told hom to go .030 over and to zero plane the deck.  Fuggit.
 
By the way, what does 30 over bring the cubes to?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on August 07, 2009, 09:21:32 PM
446

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 08, 2009, 03:59:10 AM
SIX stinkin cubes?  Maybe I should stroke it....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on August 12, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
Good luck with this one. Maybe you shoulda considered a crate BB hemi right from the start, probably about the same money as what you've spent so far.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Tom Dawson on August 12, 2009, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: Commando1
SIX stinkin cubes?  Maybe I should stroke it....

Now , now , now Stan-keep it clean-this is a family type forum
 
 
 
 
 
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Tom
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 13, 2009, 03:54:28 AM
Quote from: 67Newport
Good luck with this one. Maybe you shoulda considered a crate BB hemi right from the start,  probably about the same money as what you've spent so far. 
Like I told you before, the idea of illegals slapping together my engine with questionable parts makes me nervous.  Warrantee or no warrantee.  I am NOT pulling this engine a third time!  A pro built engine is way beyond my means.  So it's back to DIY.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 02, 2009, 08:02:30 AM
440-WOB II order list as of today....
 
Summit:
 
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2gwrybq.jpg)
(http://i26.tinypic.com/xd6vt0.jpg)
 
Rock Auto:
 
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2eutv74.jpg)
 
440 Source:
 
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2znz3wy.jpg)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/ajmp0y.jpg)
And the first person who says 'I coulda got it for ya cheaper....'    (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/baseballbatr.gif)
Commando12009-09-02 14:11:14
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on September 02, 2009, 10:04:58 AM
HV oil pump?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 03, 2009, 03:17:40 AM
Quote from: 67Newport
HV oil pump?
Already got a Melling hi-vol/hi-press oil pump from the orig. 440-WOB
Along with all the other external goodies.
 
With the machine work, it looks like I can do this for under 2 grand.
About the same $$ as a rebuilt crate motor from a sweat shop using dubious labor and materials.  Yah, yah.  I know they come with a warrantee but I'd rather cut off my right cajone before pulling that engine a THIRD time...
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on September 03, 2009, 09:36:46 AM
You want a high volume oil pump...not high pressure.....

high pressure is for race engines with loose bearing clearances.....with a tight new crank in there you might have an answer to why the last engine failed.....


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 03, 2009, 10:43:53 AM
[/QUOTE]


My Melling has an ADJUSTABLE  pressure release valve ...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) Commando12009-09-03 16:00:09
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 03, 2009, 06:03:30 PM
Thanks for posting the Summit l;ist,Stan.
It gives me an idea what I will be looking into for the BoaB's engine.
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 04, 2009, 02:33:38 AM
Lea,
The stuff I chose, and where I bought it was determined by buying the best stuff I could at the lowest price I could find anywhere.  I also took into consideration shipping costs.  
Also, all the EXTERNALS I'm reusing from 440-WOB I, was gotton from mostly Rock & Summitt, also.  I just couldn't find anybody cheaper than those two.  440 Source has stuff NOBODY else has.  Between those three, you've got it made.
 
This build hit my wallet much harder because of the pistons and higher performance valve train.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2009, 10:18:35 AM
OK.  Im back on track. 
After one delay after another at the machine shop, I got the block and heads back.
Block .030 over.
Heads: Hardened seats, new springs, valves, retainers, keepers, and seals.
Rods honed nad new pisons pressed in.
 
I got the crank and pistons in this morning.
 
I added up all my receipts.  $3100. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  (Shut up, Al!)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Rebuild10132009_010a.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 13, 2009, 11:02:38 AM
But does it run?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2009, 12:07:49 PM
Before the 5/50 ever will....
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on October 13, 2009, 12:36:54 PM
mwavs.com/0085412111/MP3S/TV_Shows/Hogans_Heros/nthng.mp3 (http://mwavs.com/0085412111/MP3S/TV_Shows/Hogans_Heros/nthng.mp3)67Newport2009-10-13 17:39:04
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 13, 2009, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Before the 5/50 ever will....
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
But 550 will run longer. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 13, 2009, 01:36:22 PM

new rods and/or rod bolts Stan? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif)
stitcherbob2009-10-13 18:36:51
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2009, 03:36:06 PM
The only thing left original is the block and the rods.  Nothing factory left. 100% of the bolts are ARP.  The rods were magnafluxed and honed.
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 13, 2009, 06:54:45 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 13, 2009, 07:37:16 PM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/128999683181942904.jpg)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 14, 2009, 12:06:26 PM
NO!!!!!
Because it took me over two stinking hours trying to get that new #^%$ damper on...
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Rebuil10142009_007small.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 15, 2009, 10:02:30 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Rebuild10152009_002.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2009, 12:25:45 PM
Tell me something
 
How are toy supposed to read that TDC mark with the water pump housing there?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on October 15, 2009, 09:38:01 PM


Quote from: POLARACO
Tell me something
 

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)Moesy2009-10-16 02:38:24
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 15, 2009, 10:37:58 PM
And I suppose you throw in your distributer drive without finding it. 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 16, 2009, 07:45:23 AM
Looks great!!  Like that black wrinkle paint on the VCs, but could be a challenge to keep clean!

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 16, 2009, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: firedome
Looks great!!  Like that black wrinkle paint... 
Rattle can Rustoleum Multi-color Textured 'Aged Iron'.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2009, 09:16:48 AM
Quote from: Commando1
And I suppose you throw in your distributer drive without finding it. 
 
Some mechanic you are. . . I never had a mark like that and never missed a disty gear install except for the disty being 180 out on a rare occasion. . .   More like when I'm not paying attention. .   (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 16, 2009, 09:55:24 AM
What's that on the heads? like that "bare iron" look on them.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2009, 10:03:45 AM
He's trying to fake aluminum heads.  Then the 10.5:1 won't matter (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 16, 2009, 12:03:40 PM
Steve, you are really, REALLY, are an (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif) hole today.....
You don't bust Leaburn's ballz like this cause he'll kick yer azz all the way into the Joisey mudflats.Commando12009-10-16 17:18:42
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 16, 2009, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: firedome
What's that on the heads? like that "bare iron" look on them.

Duplicolor high temp silver.
Shut up, Steve....
 
(http://i34.tinypic.com/258mlx3.jpg)
Commando12009-10-16 17:16:38
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 16, 2009, 12:48:19 PM

oooooo! someone hit a sore spot... bad dog, Steve, bad dog!!

That looks great, might do that on the 350 in the '58. That looks like a serious POWER PLANT!!

Eastwood makes a bare iron looking paint too, for manifolds and such.


firedome2009-10-16 17:49:43
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 16, 2009, 03:14:27 PM

I don't care what anyone says Stan....I like it!


just leave the decals off of the valvecovers please!







here, this is for you to put in Steve's mailbox ...  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/129001405557880740.jpg)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2009, 04:05:33 PM
He must have had his limit of Iron Gut (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

He knows I don't mean anything buy it.  My hat's off to him for the effort and great job.
 
And Leaburn get's his share. . .
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 17, 2009, 03:50:08 AM
Quote from: POLARACO

He knows I don't mean anything buy it. 
 
Of course, I know that. I was just slinging some of it back.
Everything here is all in good fun anf humor, right guys? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Besides, you guys are rookies compared to the bums I worked with all my life.
When "The House" (L), and "Doogie" (R) dished it out, you had BETTER laugh. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
(http://www.teamsterslocal25.com/graphics/activities/stop-and-shop-photo.jpg)
 
 
Quote from: firedome
  That looks like a serious POWER PLANT!!
Yah.  It's powered by Discover Card.
 
Commando12009-10-17 08:54:46
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 17, 2009, 07:21:33 AM
so what'd you do with (to?) dose guys?!

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 17, 2009, 08:05:30 AM
Quote from: firedome
so what'd you do with (to?) dose guys?!
See that truck they're in front of?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 17, 2009, 08:32:41 AM
Yaaa... you drive it, work on it ? Used to be a honkin big "Stop and
Shop" depot full of yellow trailers you could see from I-84, somewhere
around Middletown or Newburgh iirc, been many years since I went that
route up to VT from MD...  and yes, them r big guys! 

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 17, 2009, 08:38:44 AM
Quote from: firedome
Yaaa... you drive it?...
Yep. Drove it. All my life. One company.  Whew!
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 17, 2009, 08:46:32 AM
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/1288094549428493661.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 17, 2009, 06:35:16 PM
If he broke down, at least he wouldn't go hungry
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 17, 2009, 07:55:14 PM


I was tryin to figure out where Stan fit in with those guys....and then it hit me.....

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/big_business4.jpg)(http://www.teamsterslocal25.com/graphics/activities/stop-and-shop-photo.jpg)

Stan fits right in the middle...... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

stitcherbob2009-10-18 00:56:56
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2009, 11:54:51 AM
OK.  Back to bizznezz.

 
Major MAJOR snag today.
Buttoned everything up, dumped 5 qts. of Rotella into the pan and went to prelubve it.....
 
NOTHING!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)
 
Spun the oil pump on a drill (CCW) and I could hear gurgling from under the valley pan but no oil to the attic!!!!  The rockers are staying bone dry.  WTF do I do next?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on October 18, 2009, 03:11:44 PM
That is weird -  you had the block & heads hot tanked so all oil galleries etc cleaned out?

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on October 18, 2009, 04:28:40 PM

Sometimes the pumps don't take a prime when they are dry. Try putting some heavy gear oil or even vaseline(!) in the pump rotors and try it again.
2C1J2009-10-18 21:35:16
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: glen cyr on October 18, 2009, 04:40:22 PM
Rotate the crank, just a bit, at the same time you are spinning the drill as the holes in the camshaft bearings have to align with the oiling holes in the camshaft then you will see oil start to move in the rocker arms and start comming down.You should feel it in the drill as it will start to bog down when it starts building pressure! We had a heck of a time priming my buddy's 440!
Also,do you have the rocker shafts on correct? there is only one way to install them,otherwise it will not feed oil to the top end correctly! You could try and pressurize without the shafts on,if the above does not work,just to see if it is feeding oil up to thet point.
owatajrkiam2009-10-18 21:53:19
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2009, 04:45:41 PM
You did use an assembly lube right?  STP works well.
 
The cam bearing holes match up with the holes in the block right?  They can be a bear sometimes.
 
How far is the oil getting?  Is it getting to the cam?  Can you see any oil moving around down on the crank when looking down?  Or are you closed up?  Scratch one valley pan.
 
You are using the right head gaskets. . . .  I know you said these are Mo Home heads
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Brian Peddigrew on October 18, 2009, 04:54:06 PM
Are you feeling a drag on the drill? If so the pump is priming, likely all that's happening is the holes in the #4 cam journal are not lined up with the holes in the block to oil the top end. Turn the engine over slowly while priming and the top end should start getting wet.

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2009, 06:18:13 PM
That's a possibility too.  Forgot about that.
 
Good call
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 18, 2009, 08:05:22 PM
you need to spin the motor over by hand as you run the pump.....no biggie

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 19, 2009, 03:21:36 AM
Spin the motor!!!!!!  AH!
Will do... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
News @ 11
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 20, 2009, 07:35:00 AM
All done.  Now, any volunteers? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
 
 
(http://i33.tinypic.com/259xws9.jpg)
Commando12009-10-20 18:45:08
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 20, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
gol dang that is one fugly alternator and mount! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley30.gif)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 20, 2009, 12:09:25 PM
You ain't kidding!!!!  Talk about overkill.
I guess the 100A alternators needed some HD mounting.
And when the A/C compressor is mounted... Holy $%#@
 
Commando12009-10-21 08:03:45
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Snotty on October 20, 2009, 08:28:56 PM
Looks like something from "Transformers."
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 20, 2009, 10:08:43 PM
that thang iz so ugly....

"How ugly iz it?!!"

that thang iz so ugly, you gotz to run Holy water for coolant! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2009, 07:29:00 AM
What do you expect!  You practically need an engine hoist to lift that alternator. .  .
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 21, 2009, 04:19:33 PM
Whatever weight savings the aluminum w/p and housing saves pretty much is cancelled out with the alternator and a/c compressor.
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2009, 04:28:58 PM
Quote from: Commando1
You ain't kidding!!!!  Talk about overkill.
I guess the 100A alternators needed some HD mounting.
And when the A/C compressor is mounted... Holy $%#@
 
 
What ever
 
Sure is pretty. . .But does it run?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 21, 2009, 06:33:37 PM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/isitdoneyet.jpg)


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 31, 2009, 11:59:13 AM
Almost.
Turns over great but it's not catching yet.  More futzing tomorrow...
 
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2z6xms3.jpg) (http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ballbuster.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on October 31, 2009, 02:06:24 PM
See that?
 
Good idea. . .walk away for the night.
 
Did you put some gas down the carb?
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on October 31, 2009, 08:02:46 PM
Stan I am impressed with your stick-to-itivness.   I hope you have a long and healthy time of use out of this engine (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 31, 2009, 09:28:48 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
See that?
Good idea. . .walk away for the night. 
No. I put some beer down my throat.  Much more satisfying.
Quote from: Moesy
Stan I am impressed with your stick-to-itivness.   I hope you have a long and healthy time of use out of this engine (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Thanks, Moesy.  Actually I call it stupidity more than stick-to-itivness.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on November 01, 2009, 03:33:31 AM
Dang, wish I could do all that!  Just don't have that degree of
experience with car engines & trannies... I'm always afraid I'll
screw up somewhere and damage an amount of investment I can't afford...
nice job Stanley!!

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 01, 2009, 08:14:35 AM
Quote from: firedome
Dang, wish I could do all that! 
You can do all that.  Just make sure your wire to the coil didn't break! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
[color=#ffff00 size=6 face="Courier New, Courier, mono"]She's alive!!![/color]
(http://www.moparhemi.com/Gallery/TheStanleyDance.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 01, 2009, 10:17:34 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

I siad to walk away. . .   You shouldn't be downing iron guts and working on cars.   It will cause you to rust(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: firedome on November 01, 2009, 10:39:54 AM
Excellent!!  ... din't know they sold Iron City in Florida...
geez, it'd eat clear thru the can by the time it got trucked that far!

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 01, 2009, 10:44:01 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

I siad to walk away. . .   You shouldn't be downing iron guts and working on cars.   It will cause you to rust(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
I worked all day Sat. buttoning up everthing, checking everything twice, then three times, and all I was drinking was orangeade.  When I went to turn it over and it it wouldn't catch, I said to myself, now's the time to walk away, clean up, down some iron gut, and sleep on it.
This morning, the first thing I went to check was the coil and the neg. wire had broken off.
I fixed that, cranked it over and 447 cu. in of pure Mopower roared to life! No bad starter relays.  No vibrating torque convertors.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) 
Commando12009-11-01 15:45:18
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Bill Mounteer on November 01, 2009, 12:43:02 PM
Way to go Stan!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Ken on November 01, 2009, 01:01:25 PM

Quote from: Fury440
Way to go Stan!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif)What he sez X2!!

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: 300rag on November 01, 2009, 02:32:04 PM
Lea, it looks like you got your man for the re-assembly(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 01, 2009, 02:35:44 PM
I will believe it when I see it
Post a video STANNNLLLLEEE!
Then again it is kinda hard to shoot a video and hold a fire extinguiser at the same time...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) 
CBarge2009-11-01 19:36:02
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on November 02, 2009, 04:18:30 AM
YAHOO!!! On the road again with no clunks, bangs, or rattles.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/143/ok.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 02, 2009, 04:22:29 AM
Quote from: CBarge
I will believe it when I see it
Post a video STANNNLLLLEEE!
Naysayers!   Sheeesh............
 
Commando12009-11-02 09:23:59
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 02, 2009, 06:17:27 AM
Remember to follow good break in procedures, like no excessive throttle for the first 500 miles except short runs up to 55mph, no extended idling, run it to full temp every time, and pick up any rods that may have exited the block before someone trips on them.......










(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 03, 2009, 04:14:38 AM
Quote from: stitcherbob
Remember to follow good break in procedures...
I am.  Just like this:
 
(http://image.moparmusclemagazine.com/f/eventcoverage/9226023+w200/mopp_0611_12_z+carlisle_chrysler_nationals+burnout_contest.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 03, 2009, 07:58:01 AM
I guess I better put the piston net back up over the house now. . . .
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Robert Rottman on November 04, 2009, 07:17:20 AM
Congratulations Stanley! That's BIG job...WELL done. Sounds great too! Now you can enjoy your toy...and after break-in...burn some serious rubber...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: glen cyr on November 04, 2009, 08:41:05 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/26/The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excel.jpg)       Glen
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Tom Dawson on November 18, 2009, 09:23:08 AM
Great job Stan



Tom


Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 18, 2009, 12:16:16 PM
I found this on my front lawn.  Stan!  Your car still running?
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Mobbygear.jpg)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 18, 2009, 12:18:27 PM
Mobby! Steve found yer timing gear! It wasn't on Rt 287 after all

Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 18, 2009, 12:24:00 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
I found this on my front lawn.  Stan!  Your car still running?
You laugh but back in the late '60s I left plenty of parts scattered up and down Rt. 1 in Dedham, MA.  Check the weeds along the banks of the Charles River and I'll guarantee you'll find some vintage Mopar drivetrain parts.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 18, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
Explains the flats I got pulling over to take pictures.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on November 18, 2009, 01:42:08 PM
Quote from: stitcherbob
Mobby! Steve found yer timing gear! It wasn't on Rt 287 after all
 
SUB . . . You ruined it
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on November 18, 2009, 04:24:45 PM
Yep, I contributed universals and driveshafts from 2 cars at the Friday nite grudge match out on the Rte 1 flats. 60 chebbie and a 67 Dart. I finally figured out that you can't rev it up to 5 grand and pop it in drive. Hey, I was 18.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 19, 2009, 03:18:56 AM
Quote from: 67Newport
Yep, I contributed universals and driveshafts...  out on the Rte 1 flats. 

Al, who was the guy with the Hemi T-bucket?  I think later on he became respectable by renovating a house or somethin??
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Alan on November 19, 2009, 03:38:57 AM
Mark Rogers?? Saw him driving it in the snow once. He rehabed a house in JP, but never quite made it to respectable. Used to see him in Doyles all the time.
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 19, 2009, 03:47:23 AM
YES!  Mark Rogers...

 
Quote from: 67Newport
Saw him driving it in the snow once.
 
Wasn't that the naked New Year's Eve  ride?
 
Commando12009-11-19 08:53:50
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 26, 2010, 07:23:08 AM
Tweeks and fine tuning:

Well it took me long enough but I finally did it.  I was always, at best, even when I was racing on the track as a kid, a seat of the pants guy.  This 440 outwitted me at every turn on getting it to run perfect. Since I had so much blood, sweat, tears ($$$$) into the engine, I was determined not to leave it as is and say 'close enuff...'.
 
Started with the Holley.  I bought books, asked people, researched, and took that thing off and back on a dozen times.  I learned more in a few months than I got in a lifetime about carburation and intake. 
Between experimenting with different jetting, accelerator pumps and cams, power valves, discharge tubes, drilling orifices and a dozen other things, this is probably the best shade tree Holley around.
Timing and vacuum: Same story.  Books, questions, and research.  Especially distributor vacuum and mechanical advance theory.  Everything I thought I knew was 90% urban myth.  If you don't know aerodynamics and thermodynamics, it's a good time to learn.
 
Today, I got the last annoying problem elliminated.  Spent lots of money but way cheaper than college and a lot more fun.  From a standing start to I run out of room, the motor PULLS! No hesitation.  No stumble.  No roughness.  No nothing.
 
Lesson: Damn good thing I'm retired....
 
 
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on June 26, 2010, 08:30:32 AM
Now put an exhaust system in it so you can start all over again
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 26, 2010, 09:21:37 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: 440-WOB Part 2 - Continued...
Post by: Steve on June 26, 2010, 09:24:12 AM
Sorry 'bout that Stan.  That's what happens on a horse like that