MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - FUEL => Topic started by: Johnny D. on July 17, 2008, 08:13:01 PM

Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 17, 2008, 08:13:01 PM
as per Butch's suggestion... the carb floats have been adjusted...

the  plug wires are spot on, nothing crossed.

the carb is tight to the engine, nothings loose.

the timing is set up perfecto.

the plugs are a year old... and cleaning agents have been added to prevent carbon build up...

the engine is finally stably mounted in with a shumaker mount...

SOOOOO....

why wont the damn thing idle nice and even and lower than around 1000 rpm... if you start her up she idles like crap, slows and dies.... gives off a nice rich smell...  if it does stay alive, its not that nice steady hum, but a session of low spacey blats.

in gear does the same, stoping at a light means your going to stall... and if you maintain a speed of 25mph or so there seems to be an ebb and flow to the power, a rush and draw back...

WOT is fine, 45 in just the primaries is fine, but back at idle it craps out...

i've been told the following...
TIMING CHAIN - i have it, but i dont think its that far gone and that should affect at all times right?

MISSING- Dont see how its possible, given the newness of all the parts... cap. rotor, plugs, wires, coil

BAD COMPRESSION/ DEAD CYL. - no way to check this, dont have the tool, cant afford a shop to do it...

VACUUM LEAK- i doubt this because everthing is tight and there are no loose vacuum lines.


I'm going to try and shoot a lil video on my cell and post it here... maybe if you see it you'll understand it...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)


Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Stitcherbob on July 18, 2008, 04:04:10 AM

Also check the EGR valve on the intake manifold....see if the shaft moves under opening the throttle...

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/308/page12.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/308/page12.htm)

stitcherbob2008-07-18 09:06:32
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 18, 2008, 06:30:14 AM
im pretty sure i dont have EGR because the charcoal canisters aren't hooked up to anything... and there are no unused bits on the intake...

PCV on valvecover is new...


Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 18, 2008, 08:49:45 AM
No EGR on 72 Bob.  that's 73
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 18, 2008, 08:52:57 AM
It's dumping.
 
There must be a piece of crap caught in there since you didn't change the fuel filter since forever.
 
You remember that rev and chock trick I did on the other Holley?  Rev it up, slam the choke shut, keep it running and open the throttle as much as you can.  When it's almost stalled let the choke go and clean out the cylinders.  You don't have to red line the engine.  See if you can suck the piece of crap out.
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 18, 2008, 10:53:18 AM
you think the primaries are clogged then...

ok, ill try but it is extremely hard to keep it going at idle...


Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Butch Houghton on July 18, 2008, 12:04:29 PM

How old is this carb?   I can't remember if you got it new?

It does sound like something clogged in the Idle circuit.   

Quick fix just to see......Get a can of spray carb cleaner & spray the top of the main body where the very small holes are.....Idle air bleeds. If they get gummed up they'll cause issues.   Don't really think that's it but doesn't hurt to clean the whole top anyway  & the Venturi's .

Take I the Idle mixture screws out , use the little tube with the carb spray & spray a bunch in there....might be a clogged passage.    Turn the mixture screws all the way in till they bottom "Lightly" & back out 2 turns & start the car to see if it made any difference.   Adjust the mixture screws going back & forth between them for the highest idle you can attain.  

From the 2 turn I'd go out (counter clockwise)  & if it didn't pick any RPM turn them untill the engine slows & then back to where ever the idle was highest.    Repeat for other mixture screw & so one until the RPM is at it's highest for both.

A vacuum gauge is best for this but listening will get you real close.

If none of that works might have to pull the carb & clean the inside passages.

Not that hard on a Holley.    If you do & have to get a gasket set get the Blue gaskets, they're much better & reusable.    I just a got a full Holley gasket set from Summit & it was about 25.00  & had the Blue gaskets.   Called a Renu-Kit.

All this is assuming it's the carb but from your description it soundsl ike it.

Butch

HemiFury2008-07-18 17:05:54
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on July 18, 2008, 02:24:27 PM
Carb is brand new .
Mobby,I said it before,use a vacuum guage when running the engine to see where it stands.
If the vacuum is below 18 inches it will run like crap.
You will have to cover all the bases again and start from scratch.
 
 
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 18, 2008, 02:49:23 PM
I have to get down there, or he can nurse it up here.  I'll fix the SOB
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on July 18, 2008, 03:56:57 PM
Steve,both you and I know it is something simple.
But try to diagnose it from Mr. size 15...
Remember the last scenario??.Big whoop but turned out to be a tranny mount.
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on July 18, 2008, 04:07:56 PM
[/QUOTE]
That might help.Better than you trying to emulate the sound of the engine and us deciphering your explaination!! LOL.
"chug chug chug whomp whomp blah! BONK!"(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
When Mobby has car trouble,he call in the Calvary!!
(http://www.moparfins.com/leaburn/group2+.jpg)
 
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 18, 2008, 08:06:46 PM
Amen... Im gonna try and shoot out the carb with cleaner.... never thought to spray in the idle screw ports....

i gotta get my hands on a vacuum gauge...




Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 19, 2008, 05:31:27 AM
I beat the snot out of him if he doesn't get to this soon. . . .
 
I have no time to fool around
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 19, 2008, 09:18:55 AM
who'se foolin... you think i like powerbreaking next to cops at red lights to stay on?

Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on July 19, 2008, 02:11:05 PM
Hey Mob, Maybe you oughta have your Mom help ya with those small idle screws.
 
"Hey Ma, can ya toin deese screws foah me!!"
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)!!!
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 20, 2008, 03:12:50 PM
we might be dealing with a dead cyl. i pulled a wire off the cap and rotor and the engine actually didnt change so im thinking bad plug probabbly might be doing this...

wich would mean my car is eating sparkplugs...

im still working on the rest of the suggestions as well...



Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 20, 2008, 04:03:58 PM
Check #7 and #8.
 
For the mechanically handicapped, those are the back cylinders.  7 is on the passenger side and 8 is on the driver side.
 
Edit
Thanks Herm
OMG  What have I done.  TYPO!  Ohh man
Odd bank is on the left, drivers side, Even Bank is on the right, Passenger side
 
POLARACO2008-07-22 20:35:13
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on July 20, 2008, 05:08:30 PM
IIRC,the Mobbstaffcar ate a plug before almost smashing a piston after it swallowed something down from the carb..
CBarge2008-07-20 22:09:05
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 20, 2008, 06:04:05 PM

lea's got a good memory... it was a sliver of metal, off the original carb, when its mounting plate cracked from some over judicious bolt tightening...

that little affair knocked out three plugs...


ill show you the wire i disconected...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/DSCN00382.jpg)




(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/Al_Bundy-1.jpg)
dont look at me like that...



i guess ill be getting dirty tommorow...

MobStaffCar722008-07-20 23:08:25
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 21, 2008, 06:01:14 PM
dear god... these plugs are horrible....

i mean these are bad...

worst looking things i've seen...




Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2008, 04:36:15 AM
let's see a pic
 
Maybe that's why it won't idle
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Herman on July 22, 2008, 05:07:41 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
For the mechanically handicapped, those are the back cylinders.  7 is on the passenger side and 8 is on the driver side.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif)




Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 22, 2008, 06:26:00 AM
i knew that the odd bank was the drivers side... not to worry.... standard hobbian typo..



Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Matt Aker on July 22, 2008, 06:28:34 AM
When's the last time you gave the car a total-werks tune up?
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 22, 2008, 07:31:27 AM
progressively since i bought it... almost 3 years ago...

recently though its had new wires, a cap,  a rotor, brakes, brake hoses, rear oil and additive changed, trans fluid change, filter change, new carb.... pretty much anything changeable...

plugs were done a little over a year ago, supposedly... since I paid a mech to do it... but after seeing that plug.... i dunno...

needs and oil change coming up.. and a fuel filter....


Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Snotty on July 22, 2008, 10:18:04 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Check #7 and #8.
 
 
Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, 1,3,5,7 are on the driver's side.  Ergo, all even cylinders are on the passenger side.
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Herman on July 22, 2008, 03:07:58 PM
Indeed, as already stated, the fellow in charge must have been a passenger in his own car to often I guess. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Even cylinders are on the female side, err 'passenger side' of the car, on-even cyilinders on the drivers-side, yes indeed... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)



Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2008, 03:37:06 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
I saw it Herm, thanks.  Typo.  See my edit
 
so where are the pictures?????
 
That's either 7, 2, or 1
 
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 23, 2008, 10:30:19 AM
its not like i can just go willy nilly pulling plugs... i work dontcha know...

they're corroded.

today a fire started in the carb...

i need some time to work this out... pull off the carb... etc etc etc...


Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2008, 01:13:39 PM
Do you have any transportation at all right now?
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Jimmy on July 23, 2008, 02:55:14 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
   Carb fire? You have some serious timing issues / distributor problems. While the carb is off you should probably pull the intake and reseal it with new gaskets for good measure. When I got the 300 it wouldn't idle if it's life depended on it. I tore off the intake only to find it was sealed with silicone and was all turned to jelly from the fuel. New gasket and intake vacuum and idle were restored to normal. Still skeptical of that distributor though.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif)
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Matt Aker on July 23, 2008, 02:59:11 PM
Get rid of that friggin Holley! (http://moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
Do I hear an echo...
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Leaburn Patey on July 23, 2008, 03:27:14 PM
Holley carbs are like cheap guitars--that harder you play 'em,the harder to keep 'em in tune.
But that is beside the point.
I am thinking bent pushrod
 from Mobby's size 15 boots or a bent valve from eating plugs.
CBarge2008-07-23 20:27:41
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Mike on July 23, 2008, 04:15:07 PM

Road in 'er today....yeah he's still drivin it (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)  Drove fine except from the horrid idle and the fact that she stalled on us a few times....   When he really gets on 'er she chugs along, I'm not an expert on cars, but it almost sounds like it's not gettin' enough fuel or air when taking off.  And then when it does go, it doesn't seem to be burning what it is getting.  A lot of backfiring through the pipes.  Hobby, it's his only means of transportation right now (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

BigMike2008-07-23 21:16:36
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2008, 05:13:21 PM
Damn
 
Maybe Sunday I'll come down then.  This sounds serious.
 
Big Guy. . .Beg, borrow, or steal a set of plugs for that by Sunday
Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Mike on July 23, 2008, 06:21:53 PM
I actually got the plugs for him today (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 25, 2008, 10:07:23 AM
chugga chugga chugga.... woooooh woooooo.....

pulled a plug, replaced it.... check "plugs" topic...

still not 100 percent....




Title: everything but idle...
Post by: Johnny D. on July 26, 2008, 05:09:38 AM
rasa frasan car...!!!