MoparFins

Members Projects => MEMBERS Project Cars in Progress => Topic started by: Steve on October 06, 2007, 05:03:34 PM

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on October 06, 2007, 05:03:34 PM
Oh why not. . .
 
This is what I was working on last night while Round 1 was running on the chat.
 
40 Amp Relays. 30 and 20 amp fuses.  I think I took out 15 feet of wire.  All the connections are soldered and shrink wrapped.  Feeders are over sized then branched. 
 Remember, I had to merge 2 different harnesses into this.  the 72 and the 92.  Plus I had to add the electric fans, heater. .  On and On
Before
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Before.jpg)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Before2.jpg)
 
After.  I can lift that out and service the battery connections behind it by just taking those two nuts off.  Don't need to remove the battery either
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/After.jpg)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Panel.jpg)
 
I neatened this up too.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Panel2.jpg)
 
POLARACO2007-10-06 23:02:04
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Jacques on October 06, 2007, 05:13:20 PM
Steve, this is really nice work (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif) for sure an inspiration to re-organize my own wiring-maze. VERY well done (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)


Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on October 06, 2007, 05:37:03 PM
The blocks are made by Hella.  You want the part numbers?
 
Only thoise are the srong relays.  I had to cut the tabs off to put the covers on
 
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 06, 2007, 06:03:46 PM
How to avoid the "spaghetti incident..LOL
Steve,I know how wiring can be tedious work.Got to have patience of a brick wall sometimes.
Good work!
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Mike on October 07, 2007, 09:56:01 AM
Good Job Steve!, hope you didnt burn your fingers and hands too bad
while putting this all together. Its looks nice and neat under there as
all your engine bays do.

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: James Brown Jr, on October 09, 2007, 02:20:30 AM
lookin great. that gives me SOO much inspiration to rewire uner my hood too. maybe when i get the time and a viper V10  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) 
 
Foamy_3022007-10-09 07:21:01
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2008, 03:09:41 PM
In trying to fix all the recalls on Polaraco because of bad parts, I have been replacing pieces.  In the last month, i have installed the new springs and redid the right lower control arm bushing.  I'll be installing this puppy this week sometime.  Another 2 hours out of my life.  But so far, all this done in the last few weeks have given me a big pay off.  It handles much better and the ride is improved considerably.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/lowerraw.gif)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/Lowerdone.gif)
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Brian on April 20, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
WOW...nice work on the wiring Steve!!!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
 
And I seem to have a set of lower control arms that look a lot like yours.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
 
(http://img4.pictiger.com/8c9/14963879_th.jpg) (http://brianhansenbc.pictiger.com/images/14963879/)
 
thrashingcows2008-04-21 02:02:11
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on April 21, 2008, 05:48:47 AM
The wiring was for the state-o-the-art wiring. . . . Mel bing in the EFI to the chassis, upgraded head lights,  New interior feeds to take a load off the bulk head.  And room for futures.
 
On the control arms, did your look like those before paint?  That Ultra One is something else
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Brian on April 22, 2008, 11:38:56 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
 
 
No, I blaster mine with garnet (crushed rubbies) down at a U-Blast company we have locally.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 08, 2009, 06:01:35 PM
Oldie but goodie
I have a question
I'm starting to build this 5.9 Magnum for Polaraco.  I'll get it done and shove it in the corner until spring.
Here's the plan.  As we may have discussed, I need to focus on the torque more than the Horse power.  This will give me better MPG.  No matter what improvement mods I make, I will get HP out of it, but the torque is going to be focused on. So!
It is suggested I leave the original cam in place.  I am looking at replacing the heads with a set of EQ high flow heads. (2 for $500 with hardened seats) These use the stock valves.  I will be putting my Hughs air gap intake on it and machining a 550 CFM throttle body to go up to 670 CFM.  I will reuse my cold air intake and may, JFTHOI put one of those cheap electric blowers on it to get 50 more HP, 60 FT Lbs. and lower torge curves, just by forcing more air in.  Cheap and dirty but will do what I want it too.  For the price?
I was wondering if I should go from 1.6 rockers to 1.7's.  They're expensive, and can be done later if I want.
I am struggling to keep the engine up to full operating temperature, especially this time of year.  It starts to run too rich. At 185, I am running 15% too rich.  Do you think I should put a set of cats on it?  This engine was made to run with cats.  I have an EX pipe 2.5" exhaust and I told them to use 2" on a small block. . . Boy I'm telling you (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stitcherbob on December 08, 2009, 10:19:44 PM
I would focus on getting that fan system to run less.....or go with only one fan 

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 09, 2009, 03:55:38 AM
My strong opinion is that head work is a waste of money if your concentration is on torque.
The higher the flow, the lower the HP at the low end of the RPM range.
In theory, you want as high a torque figure at the lowest possible RPM.  Head work will move the peak torque figure up higher in the RPM range, thus defeating your desire to maximize fuel economy.  You know rule #1:  Keep the rpms as low as possible.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: firedome on December 09, 2009, 04:53:34 AM
I think Stan is right about the heads... since an engine is essentially
just an air pump, true horsepower is really measured by total air flow
thru it in units to measure BMEP, brake mean effective pressure,
lbs/in2, and thus power is acheived by increasing rpm to pump more air.
F1 engines are the perfect example.   Increasing air flow by
better heads and carb/throttlebody will not necessarily increase torque
at low rpm. In fact, the traditional way to increase torque was to
increase stroke, ie make the eninge more undersquare/ less oversquare.
Look at the bore/stroke ratio on that 2 stroke diesel ship engine, it's
all about max torque at 600~ rpm. Maybe what you really need to do for
your objective is change the crank to increase stroke. Even if not,
head flow may not be the way to go within the parameters of your given
5.9 bore/stroke. 

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 09, 2009, 07:24:43 AM
Because of the cost, stroking is out of the question.  I can get more torq and economy with a shorter duration, higher lift cam though.  I may not necessarily get allot more torque, but it moves the torque curve down to lower RPM's.  The stock engine is 330 FT LBs at 3300 RPM.  I figured the existing 5.2 engine for 320 2800 RPM.  Since the cam in the 5.2 is almost brand new, I was considering moving the cam over with the intake.  That cam has proved to be very successful.
Cold air is another way of getting more torque.  I have that licked.
 
Air flow is important, but I am getting mixed opinions on the heads.  Some guys say better air flow will be better performance and Torque with the cam mentioned above, and others talk like you guys.  It was always my understanding to the contrary with you guyz.  Even Eherenburg was useless on this topic.  He only knows performance.
 
I was also under the impression, like my diesel, if I got my peak power at lower RPM's and sucked every HP out of it I could, I would get better MPG because the Weight:HP ratio is better.  It takes less gas to keep it at speed.  ie Better comustion.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: firedome on December 10, 2009, 09:59:25 AM

Hey, you can always just stick a Cummins in there if you really want some torque...  Cummaraco!

Or is that Polaramins...

A higher lift, shorter duration cam does make sense, in theory. Theory
& practice dont't always agree, however; you might just have to try
& measure to find out for sure.


firedome2009-12-10 15:03:57
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2009, 12:24:11 PM
Yeah
 
I'm doing the Molley rings to it, since I have to yank the Jugs anyway.  But I decided to use trimetal bearings as well.  That will reduce some friction.  That's a big enemy.
 
Chamfer the oil ports on the crank, will allow more oil and also reduce friction.  I am thinking of just polishing the ports and chanfering the edges on the intake and exhaust side of the heads to get better flow and reduce puddling in the chambers.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 10, 2009, 12:31:34 PM
Quote from: stitcherbob
I would focus on getting that fan system to run less.....or go with only one fan 

Bob, that's not the problem.  The fans don't run very much when the car is moving and they are set for 195 degrees. 
 
The problem is Mark tubed the tanks to capacity.  Except for the lip on the top and bottom, the core is as wide as the tanks.
 
I have a nasty trans cooler in there too.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Tom Dawson on December 11, 2009, 06:29:47 AM
Looks good blosman, as for more torque, not sure what to add, the more mods you do both HP and TQ will go up, but being the 5.9 has that nice long stroke, big low end grunt is already there, it is up to you not to move it too far out of the lower end of the RPM range.
Tom


Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 11, 2009, 06:45:06 AM
Yeah. . .  
 
I could never get the 5.2 to go over 3500.  Always ran out of room before I got any faster.  But with that rig, 3500 ia 110 MPH, so I didn't want to push it any more.  But I have since adjusted the trans pressure and kickdown.  Just haven't tried
 
Car has never scene 4K RPM.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 11, 2009, 09:20:26 AM
You're making something very simple very complicated...
Here's the solution:
Put in a 2.73 rear.
Put in an OD tranny.
Put in an elect. OD bolt on unit.
You'll be cruising 65 at  850 RPM. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: firedome on December 11, 2009, 03:52:15 PM

Stan's got a good point there... it's all about synergy. 
firedome2009-12-11 20:52:34
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: glen cyr on December 12, 2009, 12:56:36 PM
The magnum heads are good stock,BUT,...they can be improved to be a real performer without sacrificing the low end grunt. You need to take a grinder to clean up and smooth the valve guide boss in the exhaust side bowls and ports as this will not affect the velocity in the intake side. The intake side ports and bowls do not have to be touched as they flow very well from the factory. One step up would be to blend in the intake valve boss a bit for a bit better mid range torque and hp. As you can see from this picture,this is a fully prepped bowl,but you can see where the guide boss is smoothened and you just know they will flow. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/26/INDY1-s.jpg)



Another trick we used in the 340's because they had bad exhaust ports due to the "dog leg" in the port was to use a 1.5" rocker on the intake but a 1.6" rocker on the exhaust and you could do this on the 5.9 also with a 1.6" stock on the intake but a 1.7" on the exhaust. This will not make a difference down low,but will make a difference from mid-range and up! Do you have a windage tray? I believe the magnums already have lower tension  moly rings and tri-metal bearings. I don't know where Harold is now,but he was the brain at Ultradyne cams and if you told him your goal,man could he make you a custom grind that would rock and roll!. I think he might be at Comp cams now. 
 
Glen
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 12, 2009, 05:04:46 PM
Hey Glen
 
Yep Polishing the ports on the heads already.  Just waiting for a couple of carbide cutters.  Goint to Chanffer the oil ports on the crank too.  There is a few tricks I found out about for the inside of the chambers too.  http://allpar.com/gallery/v/personal/TWX/porting/?g2_page=1 (http://allpar.com/gallery/v/personal/TWX/porting/?g2_page=1)   Real good info.  Look what he does around the valves. 
 
I've been chatting with a guy on Allpar who seems to be really on top of this stuff.  He said everything you did, but he has a few more ideas.
 
I have a windage tray picked already for it.  Going with the Mopar Performance one.  I know that helps MPG and torque a bit.  It eliminates the splashing which slams into the rotating gear in the crankcase and believe it or not, robs power.
 
Moly and trimetal are not standard on the Magnum.  I already checked that out.  They just use the standard iron rings and Babbit for cost.  Although, this is a final production prototype engine.  I may be surprised.  Either way, I have to put rings in it
 
Tomorrow I am going to start on the jugs and honing the cylinders out.  I got the engine on the stand tonight and am draining all the oil I put into it while loosening the engine from a stuck state.  This is just to get the oxidation off the cylinder walls in 4 cylinders.  The rest are all untouched.
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: firedome on December 12, 2009, 05:17:07 PM
I'm very curious as to how much you can reduce drag/ftriction via a proper windage tray... whadda we talkin about in numbers?

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: glen cyr on December 12, 2009, 07:38:46 PM
In most street engines in the 300-400 hp range,i hear in between 1-3% depending on your engine and a few other factors. So that would put it in between 3 and 12 hp for those engines. In a race engine,..especially a high rpm engine,i have heard of numbers of 40+ hp with special windage trays,crank scrapers,wide oilpans etc. You can also save hp by going to a reg. oil pump vs. H.V pump. I've used reg. oil pumps on some high rpm 340's and there's still plenty of pressure even at 6,000+ rpm. A HV pump adds 25% more drag. This was another free hp trick in stock eliminator.
 
Glen
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 13, 2009, 03:58:38 PM
Well Glen. . . 12 HP is 12 HP.  Now you can run the car a quart over without the drag of the extra oil
 
This is what I have.  Not much gringing can be done in here to improve the performance.  The Port polishing is definitely going to be a plus.  Those intakes are really rough.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/d/5.9-1.jpg)
 
I'm a bit concerned about these two cylinders.  I am using a 600 Grit hone, the metal is so hard, it just won't do any more.  They technically need a 10 over, but I decided to let them go.  I can feel it with my finger tip, but not with my nail.  Since it's only about 25% of the cylinder, I figure a guestimate of a 5 PSI drop for a while.  With the moly rings, it will take froever for those cylinders to rub clean.  It's no race car, so I am not going to worry about it.  It's just too bad it's at the top.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/d/5.9-2.jpg)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/d/5.9-3.jpg)
 
Any body know what these numbers mean?
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/d/5.9-4.jpg)
 
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 14, 2009, 01:44:01 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
The Port polishing is definitely going to be a plus.  Those intakes are really rough.
 [color=#ffff00 size=3]You're going to lose your low end grunt which will hurt performance and fuel economy.[/color]
 
 They technically need a 10 over, but I decided to let them go.   
Commando12009-12-14 06:45:04
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 14, 2009, 07:30:59 AM
I agree Stan. . .But I can't do just three cylinders.  Pistons are expensive.  I have to do them all.
 
It's not going to smoke that bad. . . 
 
And I will loose the low end if I POLISH the ports.  Not rough them as he shows in his pictures.  You read that wrong
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 14, 2009, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
. .But I can't do just three cylinders. 
Sure you can...
 
(http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/5/Lenox-30076-76L-rw-60177-18662.jpg)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 14, 2009, 10:32:48 AM
I can get the cylinders done, new pistons and a slight touch up on the crank for $700.  So it's going to be .030 over.  For 1700, I can get a balanced 408 stroker kit balanced.  Since I have to do the pistons anyway. . . .  I have to see what will happen with the computer now.
 
Not sure what the MPG will be like on that.  I have to call Hughes and have a Pow Wow.
 
Hey Stan. . .Now we know why you blew up the other engine. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Stan Paralikis on December 14, 2009, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
You think it's easy????
Any moron can build an engine that will last forever.
It takes a special kind of builder to make one run "pushing the envelope".
Commando12009-12-14 18:57:19
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 14, 2009, 03:59:02 PM
Funny you said that
 
Thinking of going to a 408 now.  Since I have to drop the dime on 30 over, I may as well go all the way.   Need to work on some engineering though. 
 
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=25287 (http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=25287)
 
 
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Tom Dawson on December 14, 2009, 05:39:18 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Funny you said that
 
Thinking of going to a 408 now.  Since I have to drop the dime on 30 over, I may as well go all the way.   Need to work on some engineering though. 
 
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=25287 (http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=25287)
 

That sounds like a great idea, and you still keep the lower end grunt to get that barge off the line, and have good top end power
Tom

Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 14, 2009, 05:48:51 PM
Yeah. . But I am waivering. .  .Cost
 
BTW, I am going to be in Breezewood Saturday early afternoon.  Coming from Ohio.  How far are you from I 70?
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: glen cyr on December 14, 2009, 07:35:37 PM
Even if you got the stroker kit,you still have to have the expence of getting the block bored and honed (another $150 approx.) And then when you add on 50 more cubes the stock camshaft will be a little more ineffective,so you have to go at least a step up or above on that (another $2-300) and then the stock magnum heads will only take so much lift (around.510) i do believe without special retainers and springs. So much to consider. I would bore the block .10 to.30 over with the stock crank and rods and go to a hyper piston such as this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB362-030/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB362-030/) I think you will have around 365 cubes with the .030 over,so nothing wrong with that. If i was going to drop $1,700,..it wouldn't be to just get 50 more cubes with. I would rather spend the money on a set of eddy heads. Here's some good info on the magnum heads,expaining the limits of thevalvesprings and seals hitting the retainers http://www.bigblockranger.com/Magnum.html (http://www.bigblockranger.com/Magnum.html)

Glen
Title: What the Heck! POLARACO
Post by: Steve on December 15, 2009, 04:23:53 AM
I must have been drunk Glen. .
 
I am not going to stroke this thing!  It defeats the purpose.
 
I will continue to look into increasing the efficiency and reducing friction.  Looking at these puppies.  http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=RXhjbHVzaXZlIEh1Z2hlcyBFbmdpbmVzIEl0ZW1z&partid=25628 (http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=RXhjbHVzaXZlIEh1Z2hlcyBFbmdpbmVzIEl0ZW1z&partid=25628)
 
I was thinking they will eliminate the flex and increase the lift slightly.  Plus with the rollers, reduce some friction slightly.  2 birds with one stone.  This $475 makes more sense, but I am still investigating