MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - Engine => Topic started by: firedome on June 15, 2008, 02:48:36 AM

Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: firedome on June 15, 2008, 02:48:36 AM
The ZDDP in oil, or lack thereof, problem seems to be all over the
internet on any car forums these days - is everyone aware of the issue
of destruction of engines being caused by the oil companies quiet
removal of this important additive over the last year or 2? Maybe it
was discussed already and I missed it? Anyhow I know I'm going to be
using Rotella-T diesel oil in all my non-roller cam engines from now
on... just Google "ZDDP" and read on...

Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 18, 2008, 04:20:17 AM
First of all, this is MUST READING to carry on an intelligent discussion about oil additives:
 
http://skepdic.com/slick50.html (http://skepdic.com/slick50.html)
 
You know that infomercial where the guy tries unsuccesfully to burn out a bearing with no oil on it except  that it had been previously treated with their additive?
 
Here's the truth:  You can do the same demo using Head & Shoulder Shampoo, which is zinc-rich... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley23.gif)
 
I will admit I use Lucas faithfully, but as I get older, I am starting to think it's more out of habit than in good science.
 
My two cents.  Thazzall.
 
 
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2008, 04:46:33 AM
There's been allot of rumble about this going arouud lately
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: firedome on June 19, 2008, 04:12:37 AM
Stan - this is a bit different as ZDDP zinc diethyl diphosphates are
not an additive per se as in the case of Slick 50 et al, but has been
an integral part of all auto oils since at least the 1950s and before,
added to oil as part of their basic formulation by ALL MAJOR OIL
COMPANIES  to provide lubrication in extreme high pressure metal
to metal contact areas such as specifically cam lobes to lifter
etc.  It was quietly removed about a year or so ago since almost
all new engines have roller cams and due to the fact that  ZDDP
apparently shortened the life expectancy of catalytic converters...and
of course also to save money.  GM has put out a tech bulletin on
it, so has Crane cams, and cam lobe problems resulting from the lack of
ZDDP have been widespread and well documented on loads of collector and
high performance car websites now...this is a bone fide issue for ALL
old cars.  Just Google ZDDP and read about all the problems...or
THE site for oil technical info - Google - "Bob is The Oil Guy". 
ZDDP still remains in all oils rated for diesel use, however the amount
of it has been reduced somewhat. I'll be using Rotella-T in all my
older cars from now on.



Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Stan Paralikis on June 19, 2008, 05:55:19 AM
Firedome:
I wasn't thorough enough when I did my googling.
Very good point.
Thanks.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
I have a paper on this in Polaraco.  As sson as I see the car again, I'll scan it for you
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: firedome on June 20, 2008, 03:12:53 AM
Cool - like to read it... far as oil for our Mopars is concerened, I
don't  know of any downside to using Rotella or Delo or other
diesel rated oil, as far as I can see.



There is an straight ZDDP additive available, but it's about $12 per oil change.



Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Robert F. Brogle on June 30, 2008, 05:48:31 PM
I just bought 6 gallons of Coastal brand 15w40 at Autozone. It's SL rated oil and has closer to the former levels of zinc.  New oils are SM rated and may be OK for an engine that's already broken in, but not for a new engine. 
 
I'm going back for more of the Coastal stuff this coming month.  The only other SL rated oil I saw recently was the 15w40 in the  Walmart brand.  Even  Rotella and Delo has switched to SM ratings. 
 
 
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Brian on June 30, 2008, 06:00:58 PM
I was concerned about this also since I was breaking in a new cam in my 440...I had a friend who cooked a couple lobes off a new cam not long ago because we was using a SM rated oil for break in....His miss fortune is the reason I now know about this problem.
 
I ended buying a oil additive product from Crane Cams...about $14 Cdn..but seemed like cheap insurance to asure the cam didn't go flat.
 
We as old car lovers don't put all that many miles on our cars so a couple oil changes a year and a bottle of additive seems like cheap insurance.
 
 
 
Title: ZDDP and cam lobe problems
Post by: Butch Houghton on July 20, 2008, 06:04:33 AM
The Red can STP has a lot of ZDDP in it also  ,the Blue cans less but still up there. 

Butch