MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: James Brown Jr, on May 12, 2008, 12:32:57 PM

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 12, 2008, 12:32:57 PM
ok guys got a problem.
Susan won't run.if i spray in soem starting fluid or gas she won't do a thing.
any help???


Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Mike on May 12, 2008, 01:34:47 PM
Check the Coil Resistor, check your cap and rotor, and if push comes to
shove. take a spark plug out and put it on the exhaust manifold have
someone crank it and see if you can see spark.

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2008, 02:21:18 PM
Good Job P
 
Maybe the points are shot.  Sometimes the lead from the coil to the points shorts in the Distributor from chaifing.
 
You can test the ballast resistor with a simple test light.  Key on.  If there is no juice going to the balast, check the bulkhead connector or the wiring nightmare under the dash.  It's a medium blue wire all the way to the ignition switch.
 
You can hot wire the ballast by going from the Batt to the high side of the ballast.  As I recall, you still have points????
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Mike on May 12, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
Thanks Steve,

Just remember make sure the plug is conncted to the spark plug wire.
Then check things off your list and see if we have made any progress
trouble shooting from there.



Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 13, 2008, 07:39:08 AM
well i have no test light. and no one to help me lol. this sure is fun. still have points(just put new one in . Ballast Resistor?? the white thingy on the firewall right???
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2008, 08:59:48 AM
Yes
 
Try a bulb abd a piece of wire
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 13, 2008, 09:01:57 AM
well i went and got a tester and found nothing, but now my battery won't keep a charge. and the car is sitting in a parking lot. haven't been ticketed yet but it's been there a week so it'll happen soon(and i can't afford impound charges. gonna try to use the Pontaic and push it home(for safe keeping) (this oughta be fun)
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2008, 09:34:29 AM
Call the landlords and let them know the story and ask them to give you some time.  It usually works very well and the appreciate it.  As long as it's not in the way and there's no snow storms coming now, they probably won't mind.
 
When you say you found nothing. . . . What does that mean
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 13, 2008, 10:25:52 AM
well it's been sitting in a parking lot at a hardware store and i've been asked to move it already. and i checked the resistor, the coil, the points, the dizzy and they are all good. just about all of the wiring checks out as well. kinda at a loss right now. i'll try again tomorrow if it don't rain

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2008, 04:27:20 PM
So you are getting spark, but she wont fire and your battery wont hold
a charge. The battery coulda crapped out from cranking it so much. So
lets do a run through here, resistors and coils have been checked, the
wiring has been checked, you are getting spark, and she wont fire.



Ok so are you getting fuel to engine, is your choke open, and if you
are getting spark, try some starter fluid and see what happens. Thats a
confusing one James, you can also try to jump her in order to get your
battery back. I'll keep thinking about, we'll get her going.



Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 13, 2008, 04:31:15 PM
no i'm NOT getting spark. and i tried jumping it it just won't keep a charge

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2008, 04:52:34 PM
Okay Sorry my mistake. So then there is obviously no spark, when you
say you checked the coil resistor, I'[m not sure how you test them, but
if it hasent been replaced, it sure as heck couldnt hurt to do. I guess
you might as well check all your wires too make sure them suckers are
all attached. Just trying to start with the simple things first.

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 14, 2008, 06:39:47 PM
ok well i figured i'd have to do it anyways so why not now. anyone know where i can find a Small block Wiring harness for a 71 Fusey???
 
 
 
would this work??????
Foamy_3022008-05-15 02:02:37
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 18, 2008, 08:56:31 AM
ANYTHING GUYS?????
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2008, 09:19:44 AM
Site is quiet.  Spring fever
 
69 to 71 might be different.  I have no idea what a 69 Fury Sport is.  Maybe he means Sport Fury. 
 
So what you are saying is you have power to and from the ballast resistor but not to the coil?  Run a jumper from the battery to one side of the ballast, then one from the other side direct to the + side of the coil (Blue Wire)  Hardware store. . . LAMP CORD!  Anything.  You can slip the wire under the spade connectors on the ballast and wrap around the coil nut and battery connector.  Just disconnect it when you get home.
 
POLARACO2008-05-18 14:22:24
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 18, 2008, 04:58:15 PM
I would spend the 25-30 bucks on a tow home first.....unless it's far away or they charge by the pound.....

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 19, 2008, 07:42:38 AM
well it was going to cost me 75 bucks to tow her home so me and my buddy did it with the Pontiac.(which now has a BAD head gasket lol)(more stuff to do of course)
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Matt Aker on May 19, 2008, 02:52:08 PM
As has been said, throw in a new set of points James!  They can look like new and still be bad.  Please don't start tearing Susan apart until this has been tried.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on May 19, 2008, 03:12:13 PM
hey i've got new points in her.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on May 19, 2008, 03:35:16 PM
Do what I said witht he wiring first
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 14, 2008, 02:53:45 PM
ok steve i've got her home. and i've dug in. Steve??? what side of the resistor do i hook up to the battery?? and what sid eof the battery?? Pos?? or NEG?? thanks
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 14, 2008, 06:06:27 PM
You want the feed side First.  It would be easier if you just checked it with a test light.  They're pretty cheap.  The brighter side is the high side of the resister.
 
Start with running a jumper from the + side of the battery direct to the blue wire on the coil.  If it starts, then we work our way back.  Don't run it too long like that.  If it doesn't start, then you may have a bad coil or bad condensor.  Make sure you still have a gap in the points.
 
If you put in a new set of points a while ago, and didn't lube the point cam, the points cam will wear down real quick and eventually close the gap to a point where the points don't so anything.  It's only plastic.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: firedome on June 15, 2008, 02:26:33 AM
Yeah, what Steve said...I wouldn't go replacing the wiring harness,
diagnose your problem first. And the 383 harness on eBay is likely
somewhat different than an A block 318. Those ballast resistors are
notorious for just crapping out, I'd check it - and always carry one in
the glove box...

Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 15, 2008, 09:55:50 AM
do they JUST Go out without a sound or a clue?? cuz it worked then it didn't. ok i ran a wire from the positive side of the battery to the coil(blue wire). NOTHING. and it seems that i'm getting power from the resistor. (as i got some sparks when i undid the coil wire). whats next guysFoamy_3022008-06-15 15:09:40
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 15, 2008, 11:41:17 AM
Did you check the point gap like I told you?
 
Disconnect the wire at the ballast Resistor and connect that wire to the coil again.  If it sparks like you just said, then the coil is good.
 
POLARACO2008-06-15 16:43:42
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 15, 2008, 02:19:49 PM
point gap is fine. get back to you on the coil
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 15, 2008, 05:42:28 PM
Check the lead wire from the points to the coil.  Maybe just spend 4 bucks and replace it.  Put a new condensor in it too.
 
Make sure the wire is not chaifed or bare and touching anything.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 16, 2008, 08:58:45 AM
ok checked some things out. with key on. i get spark at the resistor and spark at the coil. with key off i don't get anything. NOW. checked the points. with key on i get spark. with key off i don't. but when i crank it over. I GET NOTHING, nadda, zip, zilch. kind of confusing.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 16, 2008, 09:23:57 AM
Is someone else spinning the starter and you have the primary coil wire near a ground?
Pull a dollar bill through the points to claen the face.  The dollars are abraisive enough to clean them.
 
Is the battery in good shape?  Make sure it's fully charged.
 
You know you can jump the starter relay with a screw driver. . . .  Go between the big terminal with the nut on it and the brown wire held on with the screw.  The brown wire goes to the starter.  Stick a wide scre driver between them.  With the key on, you can try to start it that way and check to see if you actually have spark by holding the coil wire near a ground.  (About a 1/4 of an inch.
 
Check you cap and rotor for cracks too.
 
 
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 16, 2008, 12:04:36 PM
cap and rotor are Newer than new. bought them when it stopped working. i held the coil wire to a ground while someone cranked the starter and got nothing.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 16, 2008, 01:06:13 PM
I'd like to know how much voltage, if any, he's getting at the coil....
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 16, 2008, 05:14:16 PM
Yeah Dave. . .But he doesn't even have a test light.  Can't afford one.
 
Foamy
 
Turn the engine over until the points are open.  Turn the key pn.  With a screw driver, jump across the point contacts and see if you have spark there.  You'll have to get pretty close. 
 
Make sure the points are clean.  Pull a dollar bill through them.
 
If no spark, then the coil still could be bad or you have a problem in the point circuit.  Can you scrounge another coil somewhere?  Anything will work for now.  Except for the resitor or nonresistor, a coil is a coil.  Check the coil wire too.
 
Do everything we are telling you exactly how we tell you. 
 
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 16, 2008, 05:20:27 PM
What if he very temporarily bypases the resistor?  Rule that out once and for all?
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 19, 2008, 07:12:49 AM
Foamy, if I sent you a voltmeter to check voltages, do you know how to use it?
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2008, 12:44:51 PM
Quote from: carrman
What if he very temporarily bypases the resistor?  Rule that out once and for all?
 
He said he tried that already.  That was the first thing I told him to do
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 20, 2008, 04:55:04 AM
yes i know how to test a voltometer. i HAD one but that was lost a while ago. i can see what i can do. she will sit for the weekdays now.(got a new job that takes me out of town during the week)
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 20, 2008, 05:07:55 AM
Let me know where to send it.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 21, 2008, 01:40:43 PM
could it be the ignition module thing on the firewall??? would my coil make spark with a bad ground?? or with a bad condenser in the dizzy??
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 21, 2008, 01:46:34 PM
You have electronic ignition?
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 22, 2008, 07:49:10 AM
no but there is this box on the firewall with a 2 wire plug on it. one wire runs to the ballast resistor and the Alt. and to the ignition switch.(the blue wire)
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 22, 2008, 10:09:38 AM
That's the voltage regulator
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 22, 2008, 11:49:06 AM
yea there ya go. could that cause it??? i was also thinking would getting rid of points(petronix kit) be helpful????
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on June 23, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
JB, I know Weeb swears by his Petronix but I think you'd be better off with a Mopar orange box set up. Just ask Dave,sorry he got my spare orange box off me already. Or even buy  a stock Mopar electronic set up from a junkyard (if you can find one up there) 
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 23, 2008, 05:13:39 PM
He has to figure this out first. . .Let's not make it worse
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Leaburn Patey on June 23, 2008, 05:31:34 PM
Focus on the problem at large first.
Yes Pertronix works,BTW!!
 
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on June 23, 2008, 06:02:24 PM
He asked about it,I was just throwing in my .02
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 24, 2008, 06:59:46 AM
As soon as I have a moment  to breathe, I will FedEx out a spare voltmeter for him to perform tests with this weekend. carrman2008-06-24 12:00:16
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: R. Dave Carr on June 24, 2008, 07:00:57 AM
Quote from: Foamy_302
yea there ya go. could that cause it??? i was also thinking would getting rid of points(petronix kit) be helpful????
 
 
Let's make the car run first, before we introduce another variable into the equation.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Guests on June 25, 2008, 04:30:22 AM
So...you drove it to the store.  Went inside, came out and it would not start?


 
When you went outside to start it did it even start to sputter?
 
Also - you said that you had spark at the points with key on but no when the starter turns?
 
And - the points are opening and closing when motor turns, correct?
 
 
EvulutioN2008-06-25 09:41:48
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 25, 2008, 05:24:39 AM
AJ
 
Just a touch of history.  As far as I know, Foamy rebuilt the carb last year and it's been good.
 
But you bring up some good points. . . .  Thanks for jumpin in.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 28, 2008, 05:19:46 AM
no i was driving the car and the wires to the Alt were messing up so it wasn't charging. so i pulled the engine harness out and fixed some broken and bare wires. put it back in and nothing. slapped in new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points. and still nothing. well i can't get to it this weekend and i work all week and it's the fourth after that so it might be a while. i'll get back to you guys later
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 28, 2008, 06:49:56 AM
did you try a coil?  for the third time(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
The coil does not get 12 volts direct.  It get's 9 volts.  The coil may have been miss wired and burned it out.
 
Take some pictures and post them of the engine bay.  Let's see this wire octipus
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 28, 2008, 04:41:23 PM
ok i'll get them ASAP
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on June 28, 2008, 06:29:43 PM
Hey JB Just a thought. Have you checked the compression??
I know its the venerable 318 but how many miles on her???
I've never heard of this on a 318 but hey anything is possible I hope you didn't jump a few teeth on the timing chain.
Someone jump in here and tell me (again) how stupid I am.
But I was just thinkin out loud.
You might wanna do a compression check just to rule it out.
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: Steve on June 29, 2008, 06:12:12 AM
OK  You asked for it (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Apparently he just doesn't have spark
Title: NO Spark???
Post by: James Brown Jr, on June 29, 2008, 11:43:01 AM
no it does fine except spark.  which kind of sucks cuz it should be simple to fix. but it's given me the biggest headache.