MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - ELECTRICAL => Topic started by: Matt Aker on May 08, 2008, 02:47:57 PM

Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Matt Aker on May 08, 2008, 02:47:57 PM
I forgot to ask about yer breaker points. 
 
A loose .0017 or a tight .0018 are where you want them.  OR about 30-degrees of dwell angle if you have a meter...
 
With the points open at a dizzy cam lobe a match book cover should JUST fit between the contacts with a slight drag.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 08, 2008, 03:07:37 PM
We'll need to go slow on the points too.  Remember this is my first time.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
 
I have no idea on the breaker points. OK maybe a little.  I got the tech manual right here.   Are these the points where the rotor passes the charge.  The numbers you're posting are the clerance under or past them.   The 30 degrees of dwell angle I'm lost as the dizzy cam lobe.
 
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 03:26:48 AM
As I laid in bed thinking last night it came to me.  Points can be taken out of the old skool caps wheres new modern caps have them moulded in.   Correct?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Herman on May 09, 2008, 03:57:11 AM

The most cost-effective way to get rid of the breakerpoints is to install a new Mopar-Performance distributor and (aftermarket !) controlunit.
"FBO" also makes a very good system which would be my first choice to upgrade any old pointstype ignition system.


BigBlockMopar2008-05-09 08:57:24
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 05:15:00 AM
The other way to eliminate points is with a simple Pertronix module.  70 bux.  Done in about an hour
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Herman on May 09, 2008, 06:16:49 AM
But then you still retain your 40 year old distributor with equally worn distributor-shaft... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)



Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 07:12:05 AM
How bad can it be?  The car only has 85,000 miles on it.  
 
I'm trying to keep it as original as possible.   Is keeping the old set up just making headaches for myself?
 
I don't want to be showing it off and some old guy comes up and starts telling me what's wrong with my car and it's not really an original. 
 
If I pop the cap off to look inside will that mess up the timing and need to be reset?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Herman on May 09, 2008, 07:29:58 AM
You can pop the cap and check inside without offsetting anything.
As a check, you can also pull of the rotor inside and feel if the distributor-shaft has some play or not. Up&Down-play is normal, but side-to-side is actuall wear.
The rotor only goes back onto the shaft in 1 way, so don't worry about that either.
With only 85k miles things may still be alright though.

Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 07:38:47 AM
No it will not.
 
Even changing the points will not have a huge effect on the timing.
 
You could always get a rebuilt distributor and put the Pertronics in it.  Then replace the whole assembly, pointing it to where the original rotor pointed.  Then you'd only be out a few degrees and get ti somewhere for the timing to be set with a light. (assuming you don't have one)
 
The Pertronix does not require a box and externally would look close to factory original.  All it does is replace the points.  You will have one extra wire to be run to the coil.  Done right, nobody would even know.
 
When you take the cap off, do this.
Take off the rotor. It pulls straight up and is notched so it only goes one way.  Grab the shaft and shake it around.  If there is allot of slop, it needs to be repaired.  If it doesn't have allot, leave it. 
If you have a oiler fitting on your distributor, put a few drops in there.  That's something that is constantly over looked.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 08:28:20 AM
The light 2 n 1 or whatever it is oil or a drop of motor oil?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Chrysler300
The light 2 n 1 or whatever it is oil or a drop of motor oil?
 
Engine oil. 
 
Let's start a new thread on the ignition.  before this one get's too far off topic.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 10:45:28 AM
Man not only good with engines but a mind reader too.   I was going suggest moving this to the electrical section.  See you over there with this afternoons findings.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 11:38:51 AM
So it was a slow Friday and I snuck out early to play with the distributor. 
I had no trouble poping off the cap and found this.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor009.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor001.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor002.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor004.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor005.jpg)
 
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/Chrysler300pic/Distributor003.jpg)
 
 
I tried to close the contacts. and see how that looked.   I tried to turn them closed by moving the fan.  As I like to say no dice.  The fan just spun.  
 
The cam had about 1/8 to 1/4 of play when twisted.  So does this mean I should replace it, recondition or a touch bit of play is OK.  I'm thinking any play is no go as it throws off timing.  From the pics in the tech manual it looks pretty straight forward.  Doing this looks like I'll need to get a dwell meter and timing light.
 
Put some oil on the parts the manual said to and closed it up.  
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Snotty on May 09, 2008, 11:46:29 AM
The fan is connceted by a clutch so it did what it s desigend to do.  The best way to "bump" your motor is with a remote starter button.
 
I'm unclear what you are asking.  Your points set-up appears normal to me.  If the gap opening when on a lobe is correct all is well.  If your points are worn, replace them.  The dwell is the amount of time the points are closed, but this is best measured when the motor is running.
 
As I said, I'm uncertain what you are asking.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 12:29:19 PM
That's because Snotty is a late comer.  MIND YER BUSINESS REV. SCOTT. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Cap looks good, rotor looks like it got hot, I would replace that.  Points don't have allot gray on the outside of the contacts so they may be OK. 
 
The Cam lobes look like they have not been lubed.  There is a special lube for that.  The grease reduces the wear to the Phenolic cam contact on the points.  A small dot of a heavy grease may work for now.  Try to find a tube of point Cam lube these days. . .  I have one.  I can mail you a small squirt if you like.
 
Trick
 
With the points closed, take a dollar bill, in your case a $100 dollar bill, ((http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)) and pull it through the points so it cleans both sides.  The dollar bill is abrasive enough that it will rub off any oxidation and give them a cleaner surface.
 
As Scotty said.
Dwell is something you need a meter for.  Since you probably don't have one. . .  Let's let that go for now. 
 
How these work.
Points are used as an interruption in the power, converting the DC to AC.  That AC is fed to the coil, which is nothing more than a oil filled transformer.  Oil is for cooling.  The coil converts the 12V to 20,000 volts. (Not sure anymore what it was back then)  The center wires the high voltage lead which goes to the center of the distributor.  The rotor takes that and feeds the spark plugs in a certain sequence.  AC is used because it has arc quenching charasticis DC does not.  That means the cycle in the AC has a milisecond break in it which allows the spark on the plug to time out between firing.  I hope that makes sense.
 
The little cams you see on the shaft open and close the points.  To set a set of points, you turn the engine or the distributor so the points are open to their maximum possible opening.  Then a feeler gauge, .017 as I recall, is inserted to make sure they are apart at the proper distance.  GM had a good system where they had a window which opened and you could adjust the points to their optimium with the engine running.  Unfortunately, we don't have that so we have to be really good at it.
 
That's ignition 101
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 09, 2008, 12:29:26 PM
Hi Snotty.  I'm new to working on cars and been getting some advice from Polarac and others over in the engine section.   I moved he distributor issue here.
 
They are helping me to determine if this needs to be replaced in whole or just the breakers.  The car is 43 years old 85,000 miles all original parts.  I need to know if any play in the cam is allowed.  If not I take it the shaft is shot and needs to be replaced.  
 
Once we have this determined I'll need to readjust timing, dwell etc.
 
On the fan everything I read, internet and tech manual it said turning the fan would move this.  
 
 
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Herman on May 09, 2008, 12:39:16 PM
The rotational play in the shaft you're feeling is centrifugal advance mechanism of the ignition. That's normal.


If your fan has a thermo-clutch you won't be able to turn the engine with it. But if it has just a solid with a spacer between it, you might be able to turn the engine if the fanbelt is tight enough so it still grabs, but most likely not.
You can lean with your other hand on the fan belt a little to make it grab the pulley better, but this sometimes can snatch your fingers if you're not carefull (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 12:44:18 PM
If you have clutch fan (A/C Models)  You'll have to grab the belts to turn it.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Matt Aker on May 09, 2008, 01:56:34 PM
Bad or poorly adjusted points will cause a backfire from the carberator.  As Herman said, check for lateral movement at the top of the distributor shaft.  It should be reasonable tight, as in no more than 1/16" in any direction.
 
Here is what yer points look like for reference
 
 
(http://moparfins.com/forum/attachments/61/a110v-1.jpg)
 
 
MoparMatt2008-05-09 19:01:02
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 02:15:27 PM
FYI
I moved the posts from the other thread starting at the distributor question. 
 
HEAD kAHOONA
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 10, 2008, 06:06:28 AM
Ha.  Moving the other stuff over threw me for a moment .  I thought  went to the wrong thred then I figured you must have moved them.
 
I bought Dielectric Grease,  Permatex band.  Will this work for the lobes?  Of course I forgot to the the new rotor I was so focused on finding this and exchanging the 10 w 30 oil for 10 w 40. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)
 
I'll do the dollar bill trick and once I get the word from you will or will not apply this grease I picked up.   From what I read at a site called allpar I should hold on the gaping until I get a timing light correct?  Any suggestions on what one to get.  Dwell meter recommendations welcome also.
 
On the cam again it does have some play I'd say about 1/8 to 1/4 twist.  Sorry for forgetting which on of you guys told me but this OK as  its an advance deal correct?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2008, 10:11:55 AM
Dielectic grease is too sticky.  Keep it around though. . .it will come in handy on other things we're going to approach
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 10, 2008, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Dielectic grease is too sticky.  Keep it around though. . .it will come in handy on other things we're going to approach
That involves cattle prods and cavity searches....LOL!! Just kidding.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley26.gif)
 
This is an excellent thread for those with points and possibly convert them.I am a firm believer in getting rid of points.
My factory original distributor has over 100K on it and I have no problem with it.I am running the Pertronix and my engine does not skip a beat.
The Pertronix is an excellent product even
 if your dizzy has some wear. 
But first lets get our buddy up and running ..
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 12, 2008, 03:17:02 AM
Ghees miss a day posting to take car of mothers day  and  sons birthday to come back to the fear of cattle prods and cavity searches.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif)  I heard iniation here was rough.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
I did get a few seconds yesterday and put a dab, very small dab of gresse on the distributor lobe.  I have a parts store ordering the other stuff.  AC Delco part U1901.
I think we may have her close to set up just about right now.   On the very 1st bump yesterday she fired right up.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif)    It's running very smooth and I have next to no smoke from the tail pipe for the 1st time in years.   I'm sure the biggest problem was the carb being out of adjustment.  Of course this is all just idling so we'll see how it goes once I have the brakes fixed and get on the road.
 
I still want to gap it correctly and check the timing.  Any recommendations on a timing light?   If I get the timing correct should I still mess with the dwell meter?
 


Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2008, 05:10:25 AM
Didn't a squad of marines camp out on your lawn last night?  Check the trunk of the Chrysler. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
I realize you want to putz with it and get her going. . . What was the decision on the brakes?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 13, 2008, 08:55:02 AM
Heck I don't know. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)  More than likly have them done.   I really want to work on them but the rational side is saying let an expert do this part.   I'd feel pretty bad if I did it and then something happened with someone getting injured.  Plus a garage would have it in a few days, me a few weeks. 
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 21, 2008, 07:21:30 AM
So any thoughts on the timming light or further work with the dizzy for right now or should I wait until I have it road ready and tackle it then?  She is firing up better than ever, pretty sure part of it's the new big boy battery, and I'm itching to play with more stuff and get it just right.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 21, 2008, 12:11:58 PM
let's wait on that.  If you did the dollar bill and the points don't look all pitted, let's focus on the other things.
 
Did we addr4ess the charging system yet?
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Tom Atkinson on May 21, 2008, 03:17:25 PM
Not yet.
Title: Kaw - Liga's distributor
Post by: Steve on May 21, 2008, 03:59:03 PM
New Post!