MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - FUEL => Topic started by: Johnny D. on May 07, 2008, 07:05:31 PM

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 07, 2008, 07:05:31 PM

so... the car had been running pretty good... untill today.

here is the new issue... i will try to describe the issue exactly as it is occuring...

basically its stalling. it stalls under light throttle (no jokes about heavy foot here... k)

it also stalls when idling at a light, or if you take your foot off the gas and coast, say like in a yielding type situation.

this is bad of course when a light turns and you cant drive away without putting the car in park giving it gas, and then restarting it.

It stalls, usually feeling like the engine is either getting too much air, or not enough gas...

on occasion the carb will burp and spit, in a fore-fire.

the idle screws are set at 1 and a half turns

if you fan the throttle it can be brought back up sometimes...

 its like the RPMs are dropping like crazy, and the motor just peters out.

also

say your driving consistent low speed, 15-30mph car feels like it is pulsing or surging....

I suspect something to do with the fuel or air coming in.

Really Pissed becuase the carb is brand new.

the timing is where Steve left it.

the car does have new wires on it. but these were replaced one at a time and are in correct order.

fuel is 91 octane.

this stinks.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif)

MobStaffCar722008-05-08 00:06:18
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 07, 2008, 07:36:31 PM
Double check the bolts/nuts holding down the carb onto the manifold.
They may have backed off.Seen that happen often.
Check all vacuum lines while you are at it.
Do not mess with the settings Steve has made.
If need be,turn up the idle a wee bit.
Are you sure you got the plug wires on correctly?
Double check your firing order.Having two wires crossed can do what you are describing,IMO
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 07, 2008, 07:41:07 PM
hey lea, thanks for the advice,

ill check the wires again. the bolts too... but like i said they were done one at a time... so how i messed up is beyond me...

also i should metion it runs out fine past that part begining throttle... highway is good as well as kick down to open the 4 brls


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 08, 2008, 07:47:30 AM
wires are correct....

turning the idle screw up a bit... helped some

vacuum lines are ok and screws are nice and snung....

now what


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Butch Houghton on May 08, 2008, 08:07:26 AM
Since you checked all that try backing the Idle Mixture screws out a bit more.

Try moving one a 1/2 turn out (richer) & see if the RPM picks up....If so do the do the same to the other & repeat the procedure until the engine is at the highest Idle speed attainable with the mixture screws.    Could be as much as 2 1/2 turn after you're done or more.

If it's Idling too high after that turn the curb  Idle speed screw down.

sounds like it's too lean on the Idle circuit.




Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 08, 2008, 08:12:24 AM
idle screws were at about 1 and 3/4 turns...

ill go play with it...

those flame ups through the carb are nasty when you see em...

this might be of importance... not sure
if you do full throttle boot it, i mean to the floor.... car will stall then as well... rather than take off. now I know you dont full throttle from a stop often, but that still that means something is off... right?




Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Herman on May 08, 2008, 12:16:20 PM
- Accelerator pump might be loose, disconnected or shot.
- Vacuumleak, perhaps the basegasket of the carb.
- Low fuelbowl level.


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2008, 01:40:20 PM
I agree with Herman
 
The popping is a sure sign of lack of fuel.  That's a dual bowl.  Could be the front bowl is not filling all the way.
 
It's a Holley.  I told you. . . .
 
If you are bringing that up Saturday, I'll take a look at it
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 08, 2008, 02:17:45 PM
Holley carbs are like Fender guitars...
The more you play them hard-the more they go out of tune...
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Matt Aker on May 08, 2008, 02:30:01 PM
I hate Holleys...  fer a reason!
 
Get an Eddy John!  You'll be glad you did...
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Mike on May 08, 2008, 02:41:22 PM
lol Yoose guys are too late for carb suggestions now, Hes stuck with
it! Steve FYI I don't think you will be seeing that car on saturday 70
bucks to fill that car is a bit much, and all that gas will prob only
last to there and back. 

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2008, 03:17:42 PM
I doubt he's been messing with it. . . .
 
I don't know when I can find the time to go down there and look at it.  As you guys know, my plate is stuffed and can't get too far from the nest for a while.
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 08, 2008, 07:12:24 PM
Anytime you backfire an older Holley it blows the powervalve inside.....you need a new one and install it here:


http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/power_valves.pdf (http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/power_valves.pdf)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_xTUXQJQ8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_xTUXQJQ8)


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on May 08, 2008, 07:20:13 PM
I think Moe has an Eddy carb for sale,but I know "He's stuck with this one."
I have an Eddy carb and I gotta tell ya I'm not thrilled with it.
But its been working pretty well this year so far since I put premium gas in it. ($$$$$$$)
(Someone gave me a gift card for gas for my B-day.)
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 08, 2008, 07:38:50 PM

i think amoung other things the engine is just kinda tired... im sure with a freshening up of some parts... some seals, timing chain, it might tighten up some... but she just runs sloppy, tired...

the carb is brand new, so im not sure aboout the powervalve...

770 cfm holley 4brl, two gas lines in....

vacuum lines are all hooked up...

you make an adjust ment and its like wow, this is better, and then in a few miles what went away is back...

not to mention im riding a busted mount still so that doesnt help either... im workin on gettin the good mounts... but it's tough.



MobStaffCar722008-05-09 00:41:16
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 08, 2008, 07:39:55 PM
Newer Holley's have the power valve protection designed into them.


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 08, 2008, 07:42:30 PM
But.....a big flame up can still do damage



Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 08, 2008, 07:47:23 PM
bah i should buy steves old EFI kit



Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Bill on May 09, 2008, 12:58:13 PM
What there's an efi setup for sale?
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2008, 02:21:19 PM
Mobby Mobby Mobby
 
Its a Holley Holley Holley.  I told you that 2 years ago
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Mike on May 09, 2008, 03:20:32 PM
1 sugguestion is an entire engine rebuild, its time for it. It dosent
matter what you do or how many time you do it, the 440 is tired and I'm
tired. Thats the only way to fix all this crap! Pull the damned thing
and get it done right once and for all.

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 10, 2008, 05:50:08 PM
listen to you... i didnt know engine shops took good intentions as payment....




Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 10, 2008, 05:55:47 PM
I'll bet Mobster's 440 needs a timing chain bad.....

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 10, 2008, 05:57:22 PM
have chain set.... need water pump, gaskets, and clear schedule for steve...

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 11, 2008, 07:33:10 AM
Quote from: Potatoe
1 sugguestion is an entire engine rebuild, its time for it. It dosent matter what you do or how many time you do it, the 440 is tired and I'm tired. Thats the only way to fix all this crap! Pull the damned thing and get it done right once and for all.
 
Who said it needs an engine rebuild?  I said reseal it and put a chain in it.  That's all it needs.
 
And your right Bob.  That chain is probably stretched pretty good
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Stitcherbob on May 11, 2008, 08:54:11 AM

It has to be..... my Roadrunner (36,000 miles), my old Imperial (76,000 miles) and the new Imperial (98,000 miles) had  stretched chains and  bad plastic cam gears, with pieces probably in the oil sump as well. I would suggest he get an oil pan gasket so he can clear the pick up screen of sludge when he does his timing chain. Backfiring through the carb is exactly what plagued my Roadrunner when I first got it.....and as a teenager with his first big block, revving it up in the driveway didn't help!
stitcherbob2008-05-11 13:55:21
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 11, 2008, 01:29:15 PM
you gotta put the runner back together one day bobby...

ill get an oil pan gasket... No problemo...

i like these suggestions....


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 11, 2008, 02:47:43 PM
Back to the topic
 
Like I said yesterday, check that fuel filter.  Shame
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Butch Houghton on May 13, 2008, 07:22:19 AM
Like Big Block said .......check the levels in the bowls.   Holley's don't like low fuel levels.   Pull the sight plugs & you should have fuel trickle just a bit outta the holes.

Like Steve said , change the fuel filter if you have'nt.     Holley's really don't like dirt in the Needle/seats but that'll usually cause a flooding condition which you aren't having.

I'll tell ya a trick I found with Holley's too......On my 6 BBl setup it would get kinda like you're describing,    running rough like it's dropped a cylinder.    I found I could pull the Idle mixture screws out & blow air through the  ( spray carb cleaner might work if you don't have an Air compressor ) Idle holes & all was good.    Just a tiny bit of trash got in there & clogged the idle circuit.    Evidently got past the fuel filter (known good )  & wasn't enough to stick open the Needle/seats but just enough to mess-up the idle circuit.

If carbon starts to buildup around the Air bleeds ( tiny holes on the top of the carb )  that'll cause problems too but usually that takes some time & since the carb is new I doubt they're clogged on yours,   the fix is just to spray carb cleaner into the tiny holes & clean it out.

Holley's just have their own quirks but run great.    You just gotta learn them just like any carb.    Dirt is the worst enemy to a Holley.

Butch


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Butch Houghton on May 13, 2008, 07:36:35 AM
Just in case,  I forgot to mention how to adjust the floats.

The screw & nut on top of each bowl is what adjust the float for each one.    The screw is the lock & the nut adjusts the level.   You just barely loosen the screw & turn the nut with a wrench ( yeah,  2 things at one time )   ....clockwise lowers the float & counterclockwise raises the float.   Yes it'll spew fuel while you're doing it.  Hold a rag around it.

I usually do it running & watch but you can shut the engine off & make a small adjustment & then re-start it.  It'll make less of a mess that way.   After you've done it it's simple.

Or make Steve do it!    LOL!

Butch


Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2008, 08:49:00 AM
Thanks allot
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2008, 04:42:38 PM
We'll look at it on friday.

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on July 26, 2008, 05:18:19 AM
so i want more fuel in the bowl... that means im raising it, turning the nut counter clockwise...

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Johnny D. on July 28, 2008, 05:52:58 PM
gotta eddy... its working...

Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on July 28, 2008, 05:56:19 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/three_blind_mice.gif)
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Steve on July 28, 2008, 05:56:51 PM
That'll teach ya to piss me off
 
Leaburn said Big Mike was mad about something
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Rich on September 28, 2008, 08:33:45 PM
The popping and backfiring up through the carb can usually be traced to a faulty accelerator pump circuit. When it happens on the Eddy carbss, you usually have to take the little squirt nozzles off and clean them out with a small wire and compressed air. Then make sure the ball/check valve underneath the nozzles isn't full of crud, and last lube up the pump itself with a few drops of light oil. With the horrible gas we have today, I find myself doing this every spring on my and my friends cars.
Title: new carb, new problems?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 29, 2008, 01:52:13 AM
I see that the blind mice had not updated this thread...LOL
It turned out that the carb base gaskets Mobby had were
(1) cracked,
(2) The second gasket had brass eyelets in it and when the carb was tightened down,there was still a huge gap between the gasket and intake causing a vacuum leak and no start condition.
Actually, gas was pouring out the side of it from the carb..
 Polaraco discovered this mess.
A quick jaunt to a local parts store was rewarded with a proper fit base gasket.
After re-setting the spark plug firing order, (how it ran at all is a miracle.Off by one plug and the ignition was so retarded ) reset the timing and fine tune the carb,Nadine purrs like a kitten.At idle she is reading 20 inches of vacuum.  
That was August 26th.