MoparFins

General BS and Laughs => General Mopar Discussions => Topic started by: Stan Paralikis on May 02, 2008, 03:24:54 AM

Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 02, 2008, 03:24:54 AM
I dunno.  You figure it out.
I DO know there's a '57 Plymouth in there somewhere
 
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2nk5jf5.jpg)
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Arlen Vander Hoff on May 02, 2008, 03:35:28 AM
Nice Stan!
That looks a little less rusty than our Miss Belvedere!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
It is funky !!
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2008, 05:07:44 AM
Look at the roofline and shape of the rear 1/4's and sides of the doors.  It's there .  Even the door handles
 
I forgot the name of that Russian maker of fine automobiles. . .
 
Maybe this will help
POLARACO2008-05-02 10:08:59
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2008, 05:12:16 AM
Now you went and done it
 
http://digilander.libero.it/cuoccimix/ENGLISH-automotorusse7(izh).htm (http://digilander.libero.it/cuoccimix/ENGLISH-automotorusse7%28izh%29.htm)
 
Look in there. . . . There's actually a lot of stuff on Russian cars.  Considering they were nationalized soemtime in the 90's. . .
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Matt Aker on May 02, 2008, 09:48:36 AM
That's cool!  The russians were great copy-cats!  They built around 1000 TU-4's which were identical to our B-29 Super Fortress (they interred one after an emergency landing in east Russia at the end of WWII)  Thier Zil limos from the '50s looked just like Packards too.
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 02, 2008, 10:17:40 AM
Ike gave them a 54 or 56 packard and it was in service as a polit bureau car through the mid 80's...




Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2008, 11:14:35 AM
I'd rather have a 57 Plymouth.

Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Ken on May 02, 2008, 01:08:06 PM

They took 3 B-29's, actually.  But converted all the specs and fasteners to Metric system stuff.

Moesy2008-05-02 18:08:47
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2008, 01:10:13 PM
[/QUOTE]
 
And they still could not duplicate it
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 02, 2008, 03:59:22 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Maybe this will help
 
I tried navigating that  $%#@ gawdawful sad excuse of a site and...
(http://cache.consumerist.com/assets/resources/2006/11/confused.jpg)
 
Commando12008-05-02 20:59:55
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Leaburn Patey on May 02, 2008, 05:56:54 PM
Russia and China had no copyright laws and copy cats were common practice.
For example they copied the Fiats and turned them into Lada's
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2008, 06:09:26 PM
Quote from: CBarge
Russia and China had no copyright laws and copy cats were common practice.
 
Heh
Now there was an example of how smart they were.. .  . Copying a Fiat?  Should have just Hired Tony! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 03, 2008, 04:49:02 AM
(http://oldcarandtruckads.com/Ford/1959_Lincoln-russian.jpg)
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2008, 09:38:38 AM
So is that a Ruskie Lincoln?  Or a reprint??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Mannn  Where did they find that Old Bag??? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 03, 2008, 02:06:28 PM
Ya'll touched on an area of long time great interest to me here:

The Soviets actually bought an entire auto factory from Fiat that was built by Fiat at Togliatti (a city in the USSR, though it almost sounds Italian) where Ladas, which were Soviet-ized  Fiat 124s , were built.  The late unlamented Yugo (imported by Malcolm Bricklin) was a Fiat 128, built in Yugoslavia... no wonder it was a heap! On the bigger cars:

I've always been interested in the Soviet clones of big US cars, and even started to do research for a book on them in the late '80s before the walls fell. I still have some stuff on them from Library of Congress. Then I got distracted by the electronics writing that I still do for:  http://www.vacuumtube.com   Anyhow, the big cars were for use by top diplomats and heads of state and Politburo bigwigs etc. The last Czar, Nicholas,  liked Packard 12s, and after the revolution, the Soviets, starting with Lenin, always had Pierce Arrows and Packards as state cars, the local USSR industry having nothing comparable.  As WWII began, at the time that Packard brought out the streamlined Clipper line in late 1940, Stalin got FDR to agree, as part of Lend-Lease, to get Packard to send all the body dies from the now obsolete Packard 120/180 series, to a USSR factory, where they produced them as the big ZIL limousine, with a Soviet designed power plant, I believe a Straight 8 engine, up through around 1957. Then a new model was introduced that looked very much like a '55 Packard, but actually wasn't - if you look at the greenhouse and glass and the panel stampings, there are distinct differences.... it was actually a fairly crude copy of the Packard Patrician, a unique totally USSR designed car with an iron V-8. I believe that model was the ZIM.. The really interesting car to us Mopar guys n' gals was made in the mid 70s, I think it was the ZIS, I'm working off memory as all my research notes are stored...which looked like a crude '70 Dodge Polara copy!!  which it loosely was, down to a loop bumper, an all iron V-8 and automatic.  This car was later, in the early 80s, replaced by another big car (no it was not a ZIT!) I think still called a ZIS, not sure, that you can see in quite a few pics from the Gorbachev era, several of these cars were flown to the US for Gorby's meetings with Reagan - had to keep up Soviet prestige  - and which looks like nothing else, but is still quite American in appearance, with a formal lines and angular C pillar very much in the idiom of late '70s US cars, but very distinct and a bit awkward looking, not formally elegant like a '78 Electra for example. The lines didn't quite work together, but it was a very interesting car, a bit Buick like in the rear, and still an iron V-8/automatic... I'm not sure of the model name. But all these cars were in the big ZIL/ZIM/ZIS limited production series. The proles drove Ladas and other pedestrian cheapo cars like the Moskvitch, VAS, and Trabant (found mainly in DDR, but also in USSR).  These are all very interesting cars to me, I've always wanted a ZIM or ZIS. I saw one for sale a couple of years ago. and I'd still like to get much more research done on these big Soviet era cars, and eventually do a book or article. They are quite rare as they were essentially hand fabricated in very small numbers for VIPs only.


Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 03, 2008, 02:11:59 PM
Oh, and Steve, that's a US '59 Lincoln, with Russian ad copy for some odd reason. They never made a car like that in good ol' Sovietska Rossiya.
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 04, 2008, 03:36:15 AM
Quote from: firedome
Ya'll touched on an area of long time great interest to me here...
 
That's great info there.  Thanks.
I've also been interested in foreign clones.  More recently, the Chinese ripoffs from the 70's and 80's.  The did a perfect Jeep Chelokee that Chrysler went ballistic over (NOT to be confused with the Cherokee that Chrysler "authorized" to be built there).
 
Commando12008-05-04 08:42:21
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2008, 04:51:31 AM
Wow Roger
Good Stuff
 
You wouldn't by chance have a pic of that 70 Dodge copy would you?  They were pretty good looking too.
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 04, 2008, 05:26:39 AM
Steve - I'll try to dig it up - yeah, that's the one that really
fascinates me too, the one I'd love to have, although don't know how
the h..l you'd find one now, and you'd pay thru the nose.  Since
Packard was gone, evidently the Russkies decided to copy the best,
Mopar! (imo, though, the Packard 374 was the strongest US V-8 ever
built - that sucker weighed near 900 lbs! - it was an incredible engine
in quality of design and construction). I saw some line drawings of the
engine once and it looked like they had direct copied an American
pushrod slipper piston V-8, maybe even a B-block....while the overall
clone was a bit agricultural,  they had good taste! I'm told the
engines were pretty much bulletproof, but are near impossible to get
parts for. Be interesting to see the tranny design too. You'd need to
know a good machinist to own one I'd think...

Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 04, 2008, 06:12:30 AM
Closest I could find, The GAZ 14 Chaika - kinda late 60s Dodge in front, clunky in back:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/4546/frames.html



Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 04, 2008, 06:37:55 AM
Did some digging up of research-



The sorta Polara-in-front car was the GAZ 14 - see previous post for pic link.

Very Polara like drivetrain too. I'd like to own one of these.



The '55 Packard clones were the ZIL-111 and the GAZ 13 - both very
similar, the 3 letters indicating the factory they were made.



A late 30s very US looking car was the ZIS 101



The Gorby car was the ZIL 115  - later renamed ZIL 4104, several different body variants.

These days Putin et al get S-class Mercedes!! FOR SHAME!!!!!!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif)

I think they should clone a '58 IMP Ghia LIMO!!!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)



Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: firedome on May 04, 2008, 06:43:10 AM
Back to original topic - I've seen that Plym distortion before - it WAS
a Chinese made car for officials and such, it had some funny name I
recall... looks like a '57 Plaza after a bad acid trip!!! bulged out
hood,  '53 chevy grille and a scooped out bumper with weird end
wings. Uuuuuugly!

Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 05, 2008, 05:45:03 AM
OK.  More research.
(http://www.vipavto.com.ua/images/photo/1211.gif) (http://www.vipavto.com.ua/images/photo/1211.gif)
(http://www.carsurvey.org/images/plymouth_fury_1.jpg)
 
 
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
 
Shaghai Auto Works.
 
Theirs:
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/346/chinkcartp2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
 
Ours (see any similarities?):
It looks like they took the '54 body and the '55 front end.
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/6634/mopar/plybel54.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/6634/mopar/plys55.jpg)
 
Commando12008-05-05 11:01:07
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 08, 2008, 08:32:03 PM
thats not all... they even stole "married with children"...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/world/europe/10sitcom.html?_r=2&emc=eta1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/world/europe/10sitcom.html?_r=2&emc=eta1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

i mean c'mon is nothing sacred
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/md_007.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/esnf1.png)

has become

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/E9XGZS00XF.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/MobStaffCar72NwYkr/17SJQHAS5K.jpg)




Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 09, 2008, 03:00:42 AM
Quote from: MobStaffCar72
thats not all... they even stole "married with children"...
 
The average Ruskie should live so good...
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Ken on May 10, 2008, 07:10:33 PM


Quote from: POLARACO
Quote from: Moesy
They took 3 B-29's, actually.  But converted all the specs and fasteners to Metric system stuff.
 
OK, I need to make a correction.  The three B-29's made emergency landing in Vladivostok, while another had made an emergency crash landing East of Kharbarovsk.  The Soviet's made their TU-4, which was an exact copy of the B-29, and became operational in 1949.

http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.03shortstories/03.03.10contss.htm

So, to summarize, Big Kahuna, they DID duplicate it.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Moesy2008-05-11 00:11:46
Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 17, 2008, 06:10:24 PM
reverse engineering... like regular engineering, but without all that pesky originality...

Title: Russian Miss Belvedere?
Post by: Johnny D. on May 17, 2008, 06:18:08 PM
ok communist block joke... from good ol' Ronnie Reagan...  loved studying the Cold War...

So the commissar, he see's a man working the fields and calls him over... "sir how are the crops?" he askes... the farmer says "commissar the yield is wonderful..."
"And the potatos?" the commissar pries...
"The potatos, why if you took all the potatos and made a pile, they would reach the foot of God!" says the farmer...
To which the commissar barks... "Farmer, this is the Soviet Union There is no God!".... "that's okay," says the farmer, "there aren't any potato's either...."

classic example of they pretend to pay ya, and you pretend to work...