MoparFins

Techical Discussions => Tech- - DRIVE TRAIN => Topic started by: Stan Paralikis on April 11, 2010, 01:14:06 PM

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 11, 2010, 01:14:06 PM









Folks, I am going to come clean. 
I am about to embark on the most insane endevour ever seen by, putting an A-833 4 speed into my 1976 New Yorker.
I've toyed with this since day 1 and kept saying that is the most stupid.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Slowly I'm inching there.
Body: Got it up to 95% rust free.  Looks awesome at 20'.  I can live with that.
Interior: Gorgeous.  I just can't keep up with the dust.
Motor:  Killer 440 amateur rebuild.  HP/$ the best money I have ever spent.  Would curse & swear at another rebuild anyday over buying a crate motor. I can still keep on tweaking it when I get the urge.  Limitless.
Mechanically: 101% Absolutely down to the last dash bulb.
Suspension: For the 25 mi. a week I put on it, it's way more than adequate.  In a fantasy world, I would buy up the first set of new subframe bushings to come along at any price.
Glass: Excellent  + spare glass.
Rear: 3:55 gears woke that thing up (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif).  And boy did I learn a lot.  That was priceless.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Transmission:  Flawlessing working original tranny.  In fact, I don't remember them being this good back then.  But it's now totally mismatched to the rest of the drivetrain.  Yes, I could swap in the perfect 727 but I can NOT come to reconcile my hatred for automatics.  The only thing from loving this car like no other is a lack of the 4 speed.
 
I'll be 61 soon.  I don't need to please anybody else but me, my wife, and my cats.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
Stay tuned.
 
 








Commando12010-11-26 14:48:19
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 11, 2010, 01:31:27 PM
Oh Oh
 
OK  Your timing is perfect.  I was just about to list a set of C Body pedals and I have a bell, clutch and flywheel.
 
It comes with the rod.  I think I have the bellcrank handy too
 
If the price is right, I even have an original 4 speed trans.
 
But before you jump into this, you better be sure the back of the crank is drilled out for a pilot bearing.  Being a truck engine, I assume so.
 
Just remember, I want money for this stuff.  I need it.
 
You better speak now.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 11, 2010, 01:57:29 PM
GO FOR IT!

But......consider this http://www.keislerauto.com/ (http://www.keislerauto.com/)    ....I wanted to do this to my Imperial (using the extra factory console I have from my RR, paint it to match the blue leather, rip out the buddy seat and put in a real Pistol -Grip with woodgrain done to match the rosewood dash)

Then, if you don't want to clutch,  there's always this:    http://www.keislerauto.com/recent-news/the-all-new-road-a-track-6-speed.html (http://www.keislerauto.com/recent-news/the-all-new-road-a-track-6-speed.html)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 11, 2010, 02:44:10 PM
Thanks allot Bob
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 11, 2010, 03:40:21 PM
1.  I specifically went with a steel crank knowing full well I would have kicked myself for not allowing for the posibility of a 4 spd in the future.  I are smart here...
2.  Finances are such that I have to collect parts over time as the budget allows.  Sell off your stuff, Steve.  I ain't a viable customer.
The amt of stuff I have to address is mind boggling.  Right down to replacing the front sofa with a pr. of buckets o allow for a floor shift.  The logistics to do it correctly is going to be time consuming.
 
Now, who has an excellent set of buckets in burgundy cloth..... Nobody. Se what I mean?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 11, 2010, 05:57:31 PM
OK, so, since you are a manual man (three out of five of mine are), make absolutely sure you have the cast iron cased A833, not the aluminum one, but you already know that one, right?
 
Don't worry about the 727 and being a big block tranny. If someone has a small block that needs new guts, theguts are identical, the bellhousing is the only difference, clear down to the seals, just yank and swap. There are a couple heavy duty parts in things like police/commercial and 6-pac/Hemi transmissions, but it is just a better part, not an irreplaceable part, and they swap, too.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 11, 2010, 07:28:31 PM

Stan, why not have your seat modified like V16 Cadi-llacs did? Here's one we did. Shouldn't bee a big job to make a dent in your original cover/foam

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/cadillacV16043a.JPG)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/cadillacV16037a.JPG)



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 12, 2010, 03:05:37 AM
Bob, it's actually a 50/50 w/dual arm rests.  I just looked at it again and thing a cupla buckets would be easier.  Good idea though. 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 12, 2010, 03:30:07 AM
I think the whole boondoggle is a great idea myself!!  I'm also a
manny tranny kinda guy....  my '56 Packard and '70 MG are both
sticks, and the F3 would be awesome with a floor shift... hmmm.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 12, 2010, 07:14:39 AM
The right shifter Stan and you should not have a problem.  I've done them before
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 12, 2010, 11:18:48 AM
The BIGGEST, by far (and almost doesn't make it worth it) will be welding in the
frame mount for the Z-bar.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 12, 2010, 01:53:45 PM
Heh. . I have one of those too.  I cut it out of the other car
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 12, 2010, 02:06:20 PM
what about a juice clutch? (Polaraco can't catch any breaks..*grumble*)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 12, 2010, 06:40:08 PM
How about one like on a PT Cruiser (or the other FWD cars), where the master cylinder is set up inside the body and appears to use a pivot point that teeter totters. The master cylinder is set up so the pedal pushes, pivots about a 6:1 ratio and top pushes the master cylinder plunger so it is backwards from what we normally use. Lots of room up there, about half the size of the brake master cylinder, fluid and overflow is outside in the engine bay and can be located anywhere you want to mount it in the engine bay. I imagine there are tons of cars out there that do this, bracketry wouldn't be that difficult, slave on the clutch is self-adjusting but no bleeder on it, so bleeding it initially is kind of fun (ask me how I know).
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Dan Cluley on April 13, 2010, 01:20:37 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
That's fine Bob, where would you like him to put the Power Brake booster?
 
He's putting a 4 speed in so he can drive it like a man, who needs power brakes.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
 
Stan,  honestly, it's not something I'd do to my car, but from what I've seen, if you do this, you will put in the effort to do it right, and that makes it cool. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 13, 2010, 04:36:20 AM
I'm convinced this is the most assenine idea ever conceived.  I keep looking for alternative options but it keeps coming back to this.
Biggest problem:  By far...Real Estate.  No room under the dash.  No room on the firewall. Gotta go with the old stuff.  No slaves, no jury rigging 78 Lancia pedals, no smoke.  No mirrors.  There's only one way to do it.  The way the factory WOULD have done it had they been stupid enough to offer a 76 NYB with a 4 speed.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 13, 2010, 11:04:32 AM
IIRC no post 73 C-body was ever offered with a manual of any kind, right?  That could make things difficult. 

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 13, 2010, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: firedome
IIRC no post 73 C-body was ever offered with a manual of any kind, right?  That could make things difficult. 
That's what's egging me on.  The "Formal Years" (74-78),  never in a million years was designed to accept a manual tranny.   That ended with "The Fusies" (69 - 73).  In fact you could not order aamanual after 1970.  Therefor, I would have the world's only 4 on the floor, Formal.  I mean, I'm 61 and on a fixed income.  You think I'm ever gonna afford a 100% restored 1968 Dodge HemiDart 4 speed?  The sun will burn itself out to a clump of coal before that will happen.  That's why I know Steve loves pushing the limits on a car that will never appreciate.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)   The Hell with it.  I can't make it worth anything less......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 13, 2010, 03:02:14 PM
Sounds like a good enough rationalization to me(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)

I say go for it.



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 13, 2010, 07:22:50 PM
Go manual, go manual all the way, forget the hydraulic stuff.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 13, 2010, 07:30:10 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: firedome
IIRC no post 73 C-body was ever offered with a manual of any kind, right?  That could make things difficult. 
That's what's egging me on.  The "Formal Years" (74-78),  never in a million years was designed to accept a manual tranny.   That ended with "The Fusies" (69 - 73).  In fact you could not order aamanual after 1970.  Therefor, I would have the world's only 4 on the floor, Formal.  I mean, I'm 61 and on a fixed income.  You think I'm ever gonna afford a 100% restored 1968 Dodge HemiDart 4 speed?  The sun will burn itself out to a clump of coal before that will happen.  That's why I know Steve loves pushing the limits on a car that will never appreciate.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)   The Hell with it.  I can't make it worth anything less......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Actually, I got an offer of 18,000 for it and turned it down.  But I told the guy I would make one for him.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on April 13, 2010, 07:31:36 PM

Quote from: Commando1
I'm convinced this is the most assenine idea ever conceived.  I keep looking for alternative options but it keeps coming back to this.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/stan_the_man.JPG)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 14, 2010, 03:12:18 AM
Quote from: POLARACO

Actually, I got an offer of 18,000 for it and turned it down. 
Yah, but...
 
(http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/taxpayer.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 14, 2010, 03:15:41 AM
And that's my biggest hurdle.
I pretty much have every last detail covered on how to do a four speed in The Nyb except how to cough up the dough...
I thought about having someone like Brewer's sponsor me but they'd laugh me out of the hobby.
 
Hmmm.  I wonder if Mopar Action would like this as a tech article  car.... (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/PlumGrin.gif)  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/whistling.gif)
Commando12010-04-14 08:21:45
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 14, 2010, 04:07:48 AM
It'd be hilarious to make it a 3 spd column shift... no seat mod necessary either.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 14, 2010, 04:25:04 AM
with a /6 no less...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 14, 2010, 06:25:15 AM
Anything can be done with a welder
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 14, 2010, 12:35:01 PM
Not true, Grasshopper.  A chimpazee behind a welder is a sight I don't enjoy seeing...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stewart Van Petten on April 15, 2010, 08:41:16 AM
My cousin always wanted a big block 4 speed Mopar but could not afford to purchase one at the time. He saved up parts and ultimately built his '72 Satellite into the car he dreamed about. He found a wrecked '68 Cornet with a 383 4 speed combination for his donor parts. The car and engine had been beat on pretty bad by the original owner. The reason the car got wecked was when a main bearing rotated on the crank and the engine siezed...this locked up the rear end and the car skidded off the road and sideswiped a tree. The car was stuck in 3rd gear because of some twisted trany linkage and the owner figured that all the drivetrain was toast.  


 
Once we opened up the engine we found the problem and determined what was needed to rebuild it. Those engines are extremely tough and it went back to gether with only normal machining. We replaced a few gears in the trany as the owner bashed the crap out of the first and reverse gears doing "fish hooks" with the car. The clutch was toast also. In the end he also installed new bearings before it went into his car. He also swapped the larger rear end into the Satellite as it had 3.55 gears with a race positrac.
 
The Satellite had a 318 904 combo with 2.73 highway gears...the basic setup for many cars of that era. It took some time to find suitable parts to add the clutch pedal and linkage. Eventually a wrecked 4 speed Challenger donated the parts that were used to make this swap work.
 
The first time I drove the car I got into it at night and grabbed the auto lever that was still on the steering column and it would not move...my cousin laughed at me trying to move it (wired up at the time)...lucky for me it was in neutral when I started it up! Then I noticed the stick in the console. lol What a powerhouse! I had never driven a car with so much hp and torque at that time! The car drove beautiful with the new engine combination. I took it easy until we got off the gravel roads and onto some blacktop. The car would easily start to roast the tires at 50 mph!
 
A few weeks later I saw the car again and he had finished installing the steering column from the Challenger. Once that was done the car looked like a factory offering both inside the car and under the hood.
 
Good luck with your swap!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 15, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Not true, Grasshopper.  A chimpazee behind a welder is a sight I don't enjoy seeing...

Then I want a picture of you with the welder in hand.
 
It's a classic idea. . . .  And like Polaraco, one of a kind.  Finding the pedal assemblies are going to be the problem.  After that it's a sled ride.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 15, 2010, 09:26:00 AM
I am gonna pay dearly ( ! ! ! ) for the correct pedals (gulp).
Total fabrication of the tunnel hump (Chimp w/a welder)
Mix and match endless combinations of rods, z-bars, pivots, etc, etc,
Any tranny (more $$) I would not install without a rebuild ($$)
Odds & ends: flywheel, bellhousing, clutch assembly, , tranny mount....
Disassembling left front fender & wheelhousing, dash, carpet, fron seat, steering column...
I need a beer.....
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on April 18, 2010, 08:11:04 PM
What pedals are you gonna use?  I thought about F/M-body units might work? Or modify a set of later truck or van units?

Go to the wreckers and steal all the 4 speed linkages, brackets and pivots off the dodge trucks/vans from the 70-80's.  I have done this just in case.




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 19, 2010, 04:47:28 AM
[/QUOTE]
My plan was to hunt for a reasonably ( (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) ) priced set of C-body pedals w/power brakes.
 
I'm guessing that would be the ideal starting platform.  I have looked at pictures of A/B/C and E pedal assys.  and it appears that the C-body pedals are radically different enough from the others that a set from another body type just will not work even with modifications.  But I'm guessing.  I just don't have the money to be buying stuff to "see if it might work".  It has to work or not at all.   I'm not Steve...  (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/poke.gif) .  "Almost, kinda, maybe" doesn't cut it with me. (Don't forget, real estate on the firewall and under the dash is at a super premium).
I REALLY like your idea about truck assys.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif) Never occured to me.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) Any pics?  What are they like? 
 
 
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 19, 2010, 06:51:09 AM
What about pick up or van pedals.  You'd be surprised how similar thay are
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 19, 2010, 06:58:20 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
What about pick up or van pedals.  You'd be surprised how similar thay are

Stupid question, but does anyone have the cross reference parts books? Mopar was pretty good at using existing parts bins for lots of things. Good possibility, and since the Imperials are barges/land yahts to begin with, that truck idea sounds pretty good.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 19, 2010, 07:17:21 AM
I found lots of Pick up stuff that fits
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 19, 2010, 04:29:41 PM
this looks extremely promissing:
http://www.drive-topless.com/Pedal%20Features.pdf (http://www.drive-topless.com/Pedal%20Features.pdf)
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 19, 2010, 05:16:49 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but the pedals look backwards.  Isn't the brake always next to the gas pedal?  That looks like the brake is where the clutch should be.  But it looks like a good idea. . .
 
I still say look at the pickups.  I just came out to see if I can find a pic in the service manual for ya.
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 19, 2010, 06:06:49 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/5/PUClutch.jpg)


.
Stan
 
To my surprise, the 92 Dodge had a hydraulic clutch.  That may be OK, but finding a slave for the application, may prove difficult.  I know the 1st gen trucks had manual clutches.  I had an 84.  Further back, they were available with big blocks too.  That said, I remember converting a Wagoneer over to a Chevy engine and trans.  The Wagoneer was hydraulic as well.  I remember I found a Slave and made a bracket which bolted to the bell.  Then I used a adjustable push rod.  As far as I know, that jeep went all the way after that until the body was just way too tired.
 
I agree with Ed on going with the mechanical, but given the complexiity of the Body you are working with, It might be a great idea to use a hydraulic clutch.  My bet is the Pick up clutch will bolt right in., or maybe just a couple of new holes.  You may have to use a smaller diameter booster.  I will be looking into the brakes to see if I can get a picture of a booster.  The master is pretty small with the remote reservoir.  That solves some problems.  You should be able to get a hose for it, some steel line and a brake hose will work.
 
I can see this as reducing the issues of dealing with the bell crank (Z Bar) and all the links and levers involved. 
 
Ironically, the Pickups used the same yoke and U joints as the cars did.
 
Against my better judgement, Hydraulic is the way to go.
 
I made it past 11:00.  I'm going to bed so I can get off my mind.  This is the time of day when I have 2 cigaretts.  Ugh  The Agony of it all (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
 
POLARACO2010-04-19 23:08:38
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 19, 2010, 07:07:42 PM
Steve and Stan, another option we are forgetting about, besides the mechanical and hydraulic (old timers prefer non-fluid shifters when possible), but there is also the cable system, which does give you the feel of the manual clutch pedal over the hydraulic ones, and it doesn't require hardly any room at all. I recall the early 80s Mitsu/Dodge mini truck had one. Smooth, quick and no binding, easy to adjust.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 20, 2010, 03:55:28 AM
Ya know.... I'm starting to think hydraulic although it goes against my grain....
 
That's a good pic, Steve.  Thank you.  Have a cigarette.
 
Here's a C-body w/PB assy:
 
Commando12010-04-20 08:58:29
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 20, 2010, 04:03:12 AM

I agree mechanical has the better feel, but some hydraulics are pretty good. Euro cars have used

hydraulics almost forever, and the ones in most Brit cars feel pretty
good for example. The cable idea is intriguing. Not sure I ever drove a
car with one, riden lots of motorcycles with em though.  They
stretch, but adjustment is easy.


firedome2010-04-20 09:04:07
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 20, 2010, 04:09:07 AM
My 2005 and 2008 Vettes, of course, had hydraulic.  Gawd, I hated it with a passion.  From day 1, the first time you powershift from 1 - 2, you'll swear it's defective.  Nope.  That's the way it is folks.  Just ask anyone on the Corvette forums.
 
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on April 20, 2010, 04:35:53 AM
Corvettes maybe, but I never beat the synchros with any MG, TR, or
eType whose clutch worked right. Mfr's over there had a lot more
experience with hydro clutch design. If it's right there's no delay in
excess of play in any mecanical system, and hydraulic elasticity should
be nil.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 20, 2010, 06:30:18 AM
Interesting:
Left: C body ($$$$); Right: Jeep ($29 BIN ebay):
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/cclutch.jpg)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/jeepclutch.jpg)
Commando12010-04-20 11:46:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 20, 2010, 07:01:48 AM

CANCELLED !
 (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 Why didn't I look closer at my firewall FIRST>
No room for the clutch to z-bar rod. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/firewall1_400.jpg)  You can't put 2 fingers tween the firewall and the wheel housing
 
Commando12010-04-20 12:06:15
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2010, 07:12:49 AM
You could do a Hydro boost and Hydraulic
 
The mechanical rod runs on the inside of the firewall, through the floor.  Not on the outside as you thought.
 
Before you give up all hope, let me take some more pics as I promised I would last night.  It will shed more light on the project.
 
The only problem I see is mounting the pedal assembly.  But brackets and spacers will fix that.  That is the booster I had in mind last night.  Small Diameter, long.  That's a 2 stage booster
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2010, 07:16:59 AM
[/QUOTE]


 
Volkswagon used cables.  They were pretty responsive, but a PITA to adjust.  That's probably because it was over engineered.  Volks forte' is to make it hard to work on.  Even the Brake pads are a nightmare.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 20, 2010, 08:57:10 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
You could do a Hydro boost and Hydraulic
Before you give up all hope, let me take some more pics as I promised...
I appreciate the confidence AND the assistance but this is going on the back burner.
Hold off.  Maybe I'll resurrect it in the future.
 
The cool part is, I got to discuss this thing  and get excellent input from everybody and it FORCED me to  think things through thorougly BEFORE I did anything stupid.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2010, 09:14:12 AM
I'll take those pictures for you anyway.  Maybe they'll change your mind.  I know I have most of the Mopar setup here, all you'd need is a trans.  The pedals are the problem.  But maybe a pick-up brake pedal can replace the manual pedal.  I think I can put the automatic brake pedal in here to make it work.  Both came from a 67
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stewart Van Petten on April 20, 2010, 11:27:08 AM
I believe that Steve was onto something when he mentioned a hydro vac brake booster...that might give you lots more room on the firewall for your clutch setup. I have used them in a few of my hotrods that run big cams and thus have low vacuum. It is sure nice to have power brakes when you are running more than triple the hp and more than double the torque of a stocker!


 
I have had hydraulic, cable and mechanical clutches over the years...you use what ever works...sometimes you do not have a choice what system to use because of structural restraints. 
 
It is a very nice car already...maybe you need to find a 4 speed car to play with!
 
Good luck with what ever you decide!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2010, 12:34:52 PM
Hey Stan
 
I'm building my 68 with a 4 speed.  You can have that for 10,000 when I'm done.
 
I'll have Lance come up and help me (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 20, 2010, 08:00:03 PM
I still say the cable would slip right in there with no problem or room issues, and cables are better quality than they were twenty years ago to boot. My TR4 has a hydraulic clutch and it was touchy, only about an inch of pedal to slip while taking off or bogging. Took me a bit to get that one smooth, but yeah, very little control of the pressure...it's either all the way out or all the way in, very hard to make smooth takeoffs. They got the one in the PT Cruiser correct...had to replace that rascal last year about this time as it was starting to drip, and it is about four and a half inches long, none of that three inches clutch slave cylinder stuff like the old ones, this is self adjusting, just no bleeding capability, which took half an hour to slowly manually bleed.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 21, 2010, 06:12:07 AM
A cable will eliminate the need for a bell crank sometimes.  You can make a pivot that bolts to the bell bolts.  Simplifies it even more for you
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on April 21, 2010, 07:28:21 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
A cable will eliminate the need for a bell crank sometimes.  You can make a pivot that bolts to the bell bolts.  Simplifies it even more for you

Hmmm...Never thought of a cable assisted set-up...I like it.  That would definitely use up a lot less room then even the Hyd. clutch set-up.



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 21, 2010, 07:57:03 PM
[/QUOTE]
If I keep a manual in the TR4 (why wouldn't I?) I will convert over to cable, just for the feel if nothing else.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 22, 2010, 04:00:53 AM
Hmmmm....
 
I Googled everything I could about cable operated clutches.  It's got me rethinking everything.  Tremec 5-speed top loader requires no tranny hump alteration and the cable op clutch just may fit.  I'm glad this discussion did not die.
PLUS, what really is getting me cranked up is Crownvic.org.   Guys are doing six-speed Vics and Marquis....  WOW! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 22, 2010, 06:55:32 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Hmmmm....
 
I Googled everything I could about cable operated clutches.  It's got me rethinking everything.  Tremec 5-speed top loader requires no tranny hump alteration and the cable op clutch just may fit.  I'm glad this discussion did not die.
Is that automatics or manuals? Hoping manuals. Big cars and manuals is not a bad thing, and yeah, cable clutch does fix the clearance problem, feels just like a manual clutch, just the Z bar is removed so binding will never be an issue.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 22, 2010, 07:27:59 AM
What makes you think you have to modify the hump?  They make boots for that. 

Butch knows a guy who repops the C body hump extension for the Inland shifter
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 22, 2010, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
What makes you think you have to modify the hump?  They make boots for that. 

Butch knows a guy who repops the C body hump extension for the Inland shifter
You're intruding into my area of expertise, boopie...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
You have no idea what I went through once...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
NO one CURRENTLY makes nor offers a c-body hump.  I have talked personally to the only people that did offer them.  They were hand pounded by a Peruvian metal craftsman.  In fact, I bought the second to last one they ever sold years ago.  The last one took another 2 years before it sold.  Harms said screw this and gave the distribution rights to RestoRick.  Rick has yet to sell any and won't until he has confirmed orders for several or more. 
Besides, it's a moot point.
A833's require the hump.  Top-loader Tremecs don't....  Tremec it will be.
Besides, do the math: Tremec = $1800
Used A833 + rebuild + shifter + hump = $$$$ anyway.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 22, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
I agree. . . .  I was just being the devils advocate.  People want what they want and that's how it is!  Right?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 22, 2010, 12:45:42 PM
You mean to tell me a B body hump is that much different than one which could be used in a C body? If a Peruvian metalsmith can finesse one from hand, having the start of something close would work better than having to start from scratch altogether.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on April 22, 2010, 07:27:36 PM

Quote from: dana44
You mean to tell me a B body hump is that much different than one which could be used in a C body? If a Peruvian metalsmith can finesse one from hand, having the start of something close would work better than having to start from scratch altogether.

I have a C-body hump, from a 68 Fury, and I think it is darn close to a B-body unit.  I don't know why no one has tried to make one work before, I've suggested it many times.  I know if I was needing a 4 speed hump I'd go B-body and make it work.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 23, 2010, 03:12:20 AM
Quote from: thrashingcows
  I don't know why no one has tried to make one work before, I've suggested it many times.  I know if I was needing a 4 speed hump I'd go B-body and make it work.
That's exactly what I attempted initially.  A B-body hump.  Not even close.....  After 9 months of waiting, the one from Harms finally arrived.  Perfection.  And beautiful workmanship.  I swore it was stamped but Scott said it was hand formed.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on April 23, 2010, 07:04:00 AM
Welll, make sure you have a plaster casting of it so it would make it easier to tap one out if that becomes a necessity in the future. Bet you could actually make a little on the side, betting the low volume is partially responsible due to the lack of knowing where to look for the darn things.
 
Talk about timing, right?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 23, 2010, 07:13:51 AM
Stan
 
I didn't know you had ordered that.  I have an original I cut out of that rot box fast back here.  It's junk, but it could be used if you want a back up.  You want it?  I was about the trash it.  But Ed's idea would keep you sober. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  and you can make some extra bucks for minimal cost.  A sheet of 20 gauge cold rolled 4' X 10', costs me 40 bucks
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 23, 2010, 10:37:40 AM
Nope.  Addding a hump on the transmission tunnel is now not necessary since no floor modification is needed with the Tremec top loader.  That will save gobs of agravation.
 
I need to hunt down one of these.  If I can do the pedal mod on the bench in advance, life will be much easier  on my back, knees, and neck.
 
Particularly the item #13 bracket (which is unique to the 774-78's, of course  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)  )
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/76pbpedal_assy.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 23, 2010, 12:39:10 PM
Can you get me the centers on the bolts converter bolts?  The picture looks exactly like the one in the 67.  You can have that one and the related brackets to go with it. 
 
See if you can get your camera under there and take a couple of clicks.  I can compare it.
 
I plan on pulling the back half out tomorrow.  I can pull the rest of that brackets out for you.  They were coming out anyway.
 
BTW. . Where a hat.  I don't need it too bright. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
You have my email
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 23, 2010, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
Can you get me the centers on the bolts converter bolts? 

 
Did you say "bolts converter bolts"????  WTF are bolts converter bolts (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Commando12010-04-23 20:05:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on April 23, 2010, 07:04:17 PM

Quote from: dana44
Welll, make sure you have a plaster casting of it so it would make it easier to tap one out if that becomes a necessity in the future. Bet you could actually make a little on the side, betting the low volume is partially responsible due to the lack of knowing where to look for the darn things.
 

This is my thought with mine. 

My neighbor is a fiberglass man and said he could easily make a mold of my tranny hump.  Then I thought I could cast a few "new" ones in fiberglass and sell them.    

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 24, 2010, 02:36:42 AM
I'd like to see that done.   May not make sense financially but what does with C-bods?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 25, 2010, 03:33:46 AM
OK.  A fellow Formal weirdo came up with a 76 brake pedal bracket.  Now I'll be able to do some engineering with this on the bench rather upside down standing on my head bent up like a pretzel.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/BrakeFrame_small.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 25, 2010, 06:58:18 AM
That one is wider at the pedal pivot than the 67.  But it leaves you some roon to mount a second pedal in there.  Also my pedal arm is straight.  The pedal bolts on.
 
I see how you could very easily mount a second pedal in there, just by cutting the pivot on the brake pedal and.  I may have some plastic bushings around for them too.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 28, 2010, 11:00:01 AM
(http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/PlumGrin.gif)

 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/1seata.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 28, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
That's what I envisioned
 
Make up your mind will ya?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 28, 2010, 12:58:11 PM
I can't.  It's a curse....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 28, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
It's been too cold to go out there, but tomorrow it's supposed to be in the 70's.  I'll take a pic of what I have here.  Floor brackets, shifter, shaft, boot, for an automatic.  If you want it, I'll chop it out
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on April 28, 2010, 05:21:31 PM
[color=#ff0000 size=7 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]HEY STAN!!!![/color]
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Ram-Clutch-Brake-Accelerator-Pedal-Assembly-/280497093888?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item414eedfd00 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Ram-Clutch-Brake-Accelerator-Pedal-Assembly-/280497093888?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item414eedfd00)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 29, 2010, 04:31:39 AM
Thanks for the heads up but the truck pedals won't work.  97+ Jeep will work perfectly.  Got some "on watch" on ebay and my local yard has a set.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on April 29, 2010, 10:10:06 AM
Learning something new every day and it's good news.
I don't have to change my tranny crossmember.  Also I don't have to change my isolator.  The new one I put in is a universal for manual and autos.  All I have to do is rotate 90 degrees.
 
Transmission mounting solved!
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Automatic_trans_isolator.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 01, 2010, 09:46:36 AM
OK.  I got the 76 NY brake pedal assy.  swapping the brake pedal and fabbing in the clutch pedal from the Jeep assy.  looks pretty straight foward.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/DSC00002asmall.jpg)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/jeepcomparo.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 02, 2010, 07:55:48 PM
So your going to use the cross shaft and both pedals from the jeep set up?  Looks like it should be a fairly easy modification. 

Only thing I don't like is the small pedal pads on the jeep units, you need to swap in a set of bigger B/E body ones...IMO.


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 03, 2010, 03:51:22 AM
I looked at a lot of pedal assys, especially A/B and E's.
I thought about the pedal size but the Jeeps design just lent itself to modifcation the best from what I could observe in pictures.  Plus they're cheap.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2010, 07:17:12 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/08/!BsCYf9Q!mk~$%28KGrHqMH-CcEvDk1hd%292BL2O8ULqR!~~_12.JPG) 

(http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!BsCYhOwBmk~$%28KGrHqQH-D!EvDRvBgYQBL2O8YM3Dg~~_12.JPG)POLARACO2010-05-03 12:18:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 03, 2010, 11:32:26 AM
You wanted too much....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif).
I watched the auction.
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2010, 12:27:34 PM
well help it along!
 
It's for manual brakes anyway.
 
I still think the cable is the way to go anyway
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 04, 2010, 02:31:06 AM
And that IS the way I'm gonna go.  A Morse cable and some Mustang tidbits and I should be good to go.  Let me mod the pedals first.  One thing at a time.  I can't jump around like you can.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2010, 06:01:21 AM
so now you need to work on a 440 Bell and flywheel right?  Got 'em
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 05, 2010, 09:43:38 AM
No.  First I have to fix the water pump.  Just got back from a long trip in The Nyb and

 
(http://www.desktoprating.com/wallpapers/landscape-wallpapers-pictures/waterfall-landscape-wallpaper.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 05, 2010, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: Commando1
No.  First I have to fix the water pump.  Just got back from a long trip in The Nyb and

 

Are you saying this is what your water pump leak looked like, or what?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 06, 2010, 02:53:33 AM
Yep.  That is not where I was.  That is what I found when I got home.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 08, 2010, 04:41:25 AM
Even though nobody asked, I'm going to keep rambling in the thread until the job is done.  Sort of a logbook.  Don't mind me...
 
Staying up late, doing my homework, I can save a gazillion bucks if I grab a 5 speed Tremec out of a 96 - 98 Mustang.  99+ won't work.  Neither will the Tremecs that were in GM cars.  Now to find one of those puppies.....
 
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2010, 06:47:38 AM
Good luck with that.
 
POLARACO2010-05-08 12:09:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 08, 2010, 12:17:04 PM
No thanks to you. I have my friend Harvey the Pooka to talk to and give me guidance..


 
FWIW, after removing the shroud, removing the radiator, after removing the fan, after removing the A/C compressor, and removing a thousand tidbit bolts to get at this stuff, it was the............
 
 
 
THE THERMOSTAT GASKET!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Cheap chinese crap wasn't punched correctly so it "puckered up" when torqued down. 
PLUS!!! I t practically dissolved.
 
That's it!  I'm making my own from now on. 
 
Commando12010-05-08 17:40:55
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2010, 05:26:25 PM
I use FelPro man. . .It's never happened.  Are you using Orange Juice for coolant?
 
Glad it was something simple though.  I wouldn't want to go 2 for 2 on motors
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2010, 05:38:28 PM
Harvey?  Ohhh yeah!  The alter ego
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 08, 2010, 08:00:36 PM
Flatten both surfaces like I mentioned, this is actually easier than the water pump housing.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 09, 2010, 04:46:39 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I wouldn't want to go 2 for 2 on motors
That's where I drag it over to Lance's house, pull the plate, and walk away never looking back.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2010, 10:51:56 AM
A fate worse than death
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 09, 2010, 11:29:02 AM
So pray, for this engine, my bretheren.  Pray like you have not prayed before....  One more engine and I'm over the edge.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 10, 2010, 08:34:57 AM
Jeep setup, left;  New Yorker setup, right.
Looks very doable. Just swap the entire Jeep pedal assy (and the bracket extension above the clutch pedal) over to the New Yorker bracket.
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/both_sets.jpg)
Commando12010-05-10 13:37:09
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2010, 10:29:06 AM
You didn't call me back schmuck.  Damned kids.  Or did you do a brain crap again?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on May 10, 2010, 11:15:23 AM
"One more engine and I'm over the edge."  take one small block and call me in the morning!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 10, 2010, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
You didn't call me back schmuck.  Damned kids.  Or did you do a brain crap again?
You have me dead to right.  I have to come clean...
I have phone phobia.  I piss off a lot of people  but It's not something I haven't tried to address.   I don't know what why, but it's like people who have a fear of flying or enclosed spaces.  You can't explain it.  You just  live with it and people don't understand it.  I console myself with the fact that if that's my worst neurosis, then I'm not that bad off...
So. I'm asking for forgiveness.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2010, 12:56:07 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 10, 2010, 12:59:00 PM
What can I say, boss. I'm not perfect....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 12, 2010, 08:04:10 AM
Well, here it is.  The world's first and only clutch & brake pedal assembly for 74 - 78 C-bodies. 
(I'm slow but methodical)
 
(http://i43.tinypic.com/qnpi7l.jpg)
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2010, 08:09:44 AM
Looks good!  Proud of ya son. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
POLARACO2010-05-12 13:10:36
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 12, 2010, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
Looks good!  Proud of ya son. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
I'm one step ahead of you, pops.
There was no room for it to attach to the firewall on the clutch side so what you you can't see is the 3/16" reinforcing plate on top.  You can stand on it and it won't flex.  Well, maybe you can't....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2010, 08:57:00 AM
I saw the plate on the top.  One step ahead of you.
 
How about a piece of flat stock going up and down, extending out to an open area and just contoured to the floor.  Or maybe you can weld a stud to the firewall.
 
Assuming, of coarse, the lack of room you are talking about, is on the outside.
 
I still think there will be a fair amount of leverage there.  I'm eyeballing the geometry and mentally calculating the forces involved.  Remember, your left foot is just as heavy as your right.  In your case, your left leg may be stronger after all those years of hitting truck clutches.  There's allot of leverage there.
 
I know, you shifted without a clutch like I did.  But there is still starting and stoping and backing up. . .   I put 800,K on my clutch before I sold the truck.  It was in there with 500 on it when I got it.  Nother story
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 12, 2010, 12:00:39 PM
Actually you are right that there's a ton of force vectors being applied there.  And I know that.  When it comes time to do the actual installation, anything more that can be done will be done.  Basically, as far as the whole assembly, all the hard work is done.  Can't (and shouldn't) make any modifications until it meets the real world.  Then do what needs to be done.  NO shortcuts.  Don't forget, it all goes back to what I said in the beginning: real estate is at a super premium.



 
 
Commando12010-05-12 17:48:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 12, 2010, 02:54:05 PM
Oh that's OK Stan
 
It's just nuts and bolds.
 
Or there is Crazy Glue (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 12, 2010, 07:21:47 PM

WOW...Nice Job Stan!!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

I know you say space is a premium, obviously I don't know these cars well, but as Steve says you need some type of bracing going from the outside edge of the clutch assembly to the firewall, or dash, or ???

Hope once things get to meet in the real world you'll be able to figure out what you need.



thrashingcows2010-05-13 00:22:16
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 13, 2010, 03:52:34 AM
Quote from: thrashingcows
Hope once things get to meet in the real world you'll be able to figure out what you need.
MONEY!!!!
Please send contributions to......
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2010, 07:05:35 AM
Brian. . .
 
I think he's planning on a cable clutch.  It's a good alternative and will be easy to construct.  He should be able to use his exiating z Bar and put the clutch push rod on that.
 
By the way Stan. . .The push rods are still available from the dealer.  I'll get you the part number in a day or so
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: attkrlufy on May 13, 2010, 08:50:27 AM
Personally, I am enjoying following this story so much.  Great job so far, Stan.

I hope you're documenting your steps w/ pics, video, and drawings.  You're a pioneer and you know what they say about pioneers - once one nut shows you can do something and survive, there's no shortage of nuts waiting to follow.

I imagine selling the rights to a story like this could fetch you a fee that runs into the tens or even TWENTIES of dollars.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 13, 2010, 10:33:43 AM
OR....
this becomes one of those postings that show up when you do a Google search of "top 10 epic threads". (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
 
Quote from: POLARACO
I think he's planning on a cable clutch.  It's a good alternative and will be easy to construct.  He should be able to use his exiating z Bar and put the clutch push rod on that.
Absolutely no room for a Z-bar.  Run the cable right to the clutch pedal, Mustang style.
Connect it over center so that as you push in the clutch, you pull the cable toward you and it in turn pull out the clutch fork.
 
Commando12010-05-13 15:43:00
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2010, 12:49:49 PM
There's no Z Bar in there now?  How do you shift the trans now?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 13, 2010, 05:35:57 PM
Yeah the cable clutch system is a great idea, but it should still have some bracing on that clutch pedal assembly, even if it's just a couple bolts with washers through the firewall.

But do you think the Auto "Z-bar" will take the stress of a clutch assembly?  Stan can make a Z-bar from almost any 4 speed set-up work.


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 13, 2010, 06:36:10 PM
I think it might.  The stick shift ZBar isn't much better.  He could reinforce it.
 
My brother used to break his all the time.  I finally reinforced it by wraping a steal band over the top and down the arms a ways to stop it.  It never broke again.  Point is, he could do that too.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 13, 2010, 07:29:03 PM
Z-bar is a waste of time with the cable, meaning the cable would be attaching to the Z-bar, and that simply defeats the purpose of having the cable clutch. Stan, you say Mustang runs a cable clutch, so you may be able to get all the components for the setup, from the cable holder on the tranny and then the determination of the amount of fulcrum angle and attachment through the firewall for the pedal itself. Remember, the cable has to be pulled, so it is working the opposite as the push clutch, so the cable has to come through the firewall, the housing attached to some location, then the cable pulled across the top of the pedal, an arch to increase the amount of pull (look at the newer throttle bodies that haven't gone totally electronic, you have a cable the doesn't pull like a throttle on your Holley, it is a curve that pulls, the end is like an emergency brake cable end, a small barrel that fits into a slot).  So, also, since you mentioned that Mustang cable clutch, look at how it is attached to the clutch pedal (may require a small roller pulley so the cable runs over it and to the  foot side of the pedal, not the engine side of the pedal, but I don't want to get ahead of things right now, check out the Mustang things first).
Ed
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 14, 2010, 03:18:57 AM
No need to reinvent the wheel.  The 'stang boys got it all figured out:
 
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/07/clutchcable/ (http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/07/clutchcable/)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 14, 2010, 07:29:49 PM
Works for me, good job!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 14, 2010, 08:06:55 PM

Quote from: Commando1
No need to reinvent the wheel.  The 'stang boys got it all figured out:
 

Thanks for the link Stan...click and Bookmark...Done!!

Never know if something like that might come in handy.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 15, 2010, 06:10:36 AM
I totally agree with you Ed.  But in his case, I was trying to make it easier for the conversion.
 
Not picking on him, but he is limited in his abilities and equipment.  Thought the Z Bar idea would be easier for him.  By putting in a Z Bar, he does the reversing of the movement very easily.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 15, 2010, 07:40:55 AM
Quote from: Commando1
No need to reinvent the wheel.  The 'stang boys got it all figured out:
Jeezes, Steve.  If that setup shown above was any simpler, even you could it.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) Commando12010-05-15 12:41:36
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 15, 2010, 07:24:11 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Thought the Z Bar idea would be easier for him.  By putting in a Z Bar, he does the reversing of the movement very easily.

As well as adds leverage to the whole system, which means easier, and less strain on the clutch cable system.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 15, 2010, 07:43:50 PM
[/QUOTE]
True, but now he has to make a bracket to keep the cable stable to pull the Z bar, and then be able to adjust it at the Z bar and to the clutch fork itself. At least with the Mustang system it is one bracket at the tranny and whatever is done at the clutch pedal itself, which may simply attach to the top, above the pedal pivot. This would be a good reason to have the whole Mustang pedal to know what the fulcrum amount is for pedal travel.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 16, 2010, 02:55:45 AM
Quote from: dana44
This would be a good reason to have the whole Mustang pedal to know what the fulcrum amount is for pedal travel.

I already figured that.
It's 2"
(full throw = 3". Using 3" as 1/4 of the circumferance = 12". If C=12, r=~2")
 
(http://i40.tinypic.com/6fzfhc.jpg)
 
Here's an actual Mustang pedal:
 
(http://www.slantnosefox.com/picturehosting/jeremy/Jeremy/66%20mustang/clutch%20pedal%20quadrant.jpg)
 
Commando12010-05-16 14:24:24
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 16, 2010, 07:08:10 PM
That's the curved part I was talking about, good job. Only thing left is the cable bracket to hold it at the transmission from the Mustang to adapt to the Chrysler, and then the connection for the cable housing at the firewall (to remain fixed at both ends of the cable housing), both of which should be easy enough to find.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 16, 2010, 07:17:49 PM

Quote from: dana44
Quote from: thrashingcows
Quote from: POLARACO
Thought the Z Bar idea would be easier for him.  By putting in a Z Bar, he does the reversing of the movement very easily.

As well as adds leverage to the whole system, which means easier, and less strain on the clutch cable system.


True, but now he has to make a bracket to keep the cable stable to pull the Z bar, and then be able to adjust it at the Z bar and to the clutch fork itself. At least with the Mustang system it is one bracket at the tranny and whatever is done at the clutch pedal itself, which may simply attach to the top, above the pedal pivot. This would be a good reason to have the whole Mustang pedal to know what the fulcrum amount is for pedal travel.

Ahhh I had not thought of that....Thanks for pointing that out!

As Dana says all you need is the fixed point brackets and your golden....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2010, 06:51:28 AM
[/QUOTE]
True, but now he has to make a bracket to keep the cable stable to pull the Z bar, and then be able to adjust it at the Z bar and to the clutch fork itself. At least with the Mustang system it is one bracket at the tranny and whatever is done at the clutch pedal itself, which may simply attach to the top, above the pedal pivot. This would be a good reason to have the whole Mustang pedal to know what the fulcrum amount is for pedal travel.[/QUOTE]


 
Right.  Agreed.  For anyone else I would let it ride to his taste.  But I am also not familiar with the mustang set up.  I would do it the Way Stan pictured it though. . . .  I was thinking about his knees and his personal vintage.  Throwing in some leverage would take some off his legs.  I was also thinking it may have been easier for him to mount.  I see he has a bit of a fear factor in this as well.
 
Just covering the bases. . .  You know how us old people think
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 17, 2010, 07:29:10 AM

[/QUOTE]


Sheesh....set in your ways.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 17, 2010, 08:14:44 AM
yeah!   Paranoia, stubborn, crotchity, no yen too (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 17, 2010, 08:17:57 PM
Gotta laugh about all this. When the PT stripped its cogs, I had another guy with me, five years my junior, stopped smoking last year. We were on an offramp, so we simply backed the car down and off the road, walked to the gas station on the corner. After all our talks and stuff, Gary (my buddy) said it would be a good idea to get the car away from the side of the road and somewhere closer to life so the windows didn't get broken out and stuff, so, back to the car, about five hundred yards up the road. Got there and started pushing. The car isn't that bad to push, me at the driver's door and steering, him in the back. We got up the little offramp and across the two lanes to the wide bridge and stopped, 100yards done. The bridge was a very slight bridge, so we waited about five minutes to catch our breath. OK, let's get back to it, so I started pushing, Gary in the rear again, almost to the crest and Gary says rest. I say, heck, we are almost to the downhill, twenty more yards. I keep pushing, crest the bridge, yell, come on up and get inside, we can coast the last three hundred yards. Well, I don't even see Gary in the dark, so I go ahead and park, then start walking back to him with a glass of soda. Come to find out Sunday that I pushed the car the last 75 yards myself because Gary had quit and was sitting on the guardrail of the bridge. Wife says to me, "You just don't get it, do you? After all these years you still don't understand it when you get told you are FREAKING stronger than you know." At 49years old I still outwork the kids, pisses them off, I say, lack of motivation on their part. Old age is what you make it. I watched my 78year old grandfather (the farmer) geld a two year old horse by himself. At 84 he was still hauling a bale of hay on a pitchfork over his shoulder and kicking the snot out of full grown cows. I have a touch of osteoarthritis, but since I know what the pain is, I know how to work around it, figure it will be another 18months before I get to replace the bone on bone hip, that is if I ever get the garage and house permit. At this rate it won't be happening for another three years, damn.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2010, 07:45:06 AM
And yer point?  YOU CALLIN ME OLD?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 18, 2010, 09:34:06 AM
Along with paranoid, stubborn, and crotchety...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2010, 10:48:37 AM
I'm gonna that the word filtering out if you keep talking like that.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2010, 11:06:53 AM
(http://6.7cummins.com/images/smilies/hitwithrock.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 18, 2010, 11:52:44 AM
Quote from: POLARACO
I'm gonna that the word filtering out if you keep talking like that.
See?  That proves it.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on May 18, 2010, 12:23:31 PM
Now, Now you Elders....just doesn't come out right when a youngin' like me has to say that to you more seasoned individuals...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
This is the way us DOM's fight.  We're too feeble to raise a fist, other than to wipe our noses
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 18, 2010, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
And yer point?  YOU CALLIN ME OLD?

You pointed it out, not me(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
And it goes both ways. Gary is five years my junior but I am younger at heart, he thinks he is just worn out. Stan may be like Jack Lalane with a beer belly (no offense), one just never knows for sure, right Stan?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 19, 2010, 07:10:10 AM
When I retired, I was as fit as any 21 year old.  In fact, I put most of the youger guys at work to shame. And I smoked.  Now, four years later, I'm a wreck.....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 19, 2010, 07:37:39 AM
"I'm a wreck....."



 
Then stop sleeping on train tracks
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 19, 2010, 07:38:12 AM
Quote from: dana44
Quote from: POLARACO
And yer point?  YOU CALLIN ME OLD?

You pointed it out, not me(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 


 
But that doesn't mean you have to agree with me. . . . (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 19, 2010, 11:41:02 AM
HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!  This thread is supposed to be all about me!  Get back to the subject:  "Why you can't convert a 76 NYB to a manual transmission" (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 19, 2010, 05:18:42 PM
Where did I say you couldn't?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 19, 2010, 06:50:17 PM
Next thing to check with the Mustang is the way the cable shield is held so as to handle the clutch pressure. It may be a bracket that is part of the brake pedal support, or it is supported by the firewall, which is highly unlikely, too weak. Same thing down on the tranny itself.
Ed
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 20, 2010, 03:47:29 AM
Actually, you hit on the head my biggest concern and stumbling block: securing the cable at each end. 
Cable quality is a concern also.  Too many reports of stang cables stretching.  The best cable I have found is  a Mcmaster Carr cable.  It pretty much makes the stang cables look like rubber bands. But I won't be able to use the quadrant.  It will have to be a direct attachment to the pedal with a clevis pin.
 
(http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/116/gfx/large/1407kc1l.gif)
 
 
 
Commando12010-05-20 08:52:43
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 20, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I remember now
 
The reason I said to use the Bell Crank so was you didn't have to loop that sucker around to the back of the trans.  Otherwise you are going to have to make a swivel to reverse the cable action
 
POLARACO2010-05-20 15:56:51
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 20, 2010, 02:42:28 PM
What the hell are you talking about?
When you push IN the clutch, you PULL the cable towards the rear of the car.
When you PULL that cable, you PULL the cluch fork TOWARDS the front of the car which disengages the clutch.
Push in pedal, disengage clutch
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Commando12010-05-20 19:47:11
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 20, 2010, 06:35:47 PM
Hey .  I went out and looked at the clutch on the 440.  it goes to the BACK of the car.  Not the front.  When you step on the pedal, the cable retracts. 


 
So you are telling me you plan on looping the cable all the way around and mount it on the tail shaft side?  Good luck with that.  But that will work.  How is it done on the mustang?
 
When you step on the mechanical clutch, it pulls on a lever on the bell crank.  That motion is converted to a push on the transmission side which pushes on the fingers in the pressure plate relieving the pressure on the disc.  It's nuts and bolts.
 
You are doubting me? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 20, 2010, 06:54:00 PM
 A pivot arm is mounted on the old z-bar mounting hole on the bellhousing.
 
Cable retracts
Pulls top part of arm fwd.
Pushes bottom part of arm back
Bottom arm connected to fork with rod.
 
    Cable       <--------              /
                                             /
                                            /
                                          (O)
                                          /
                                         /
                                        /     ----------> Rod
 
Sorry. I knew I left something out.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Commando12010-05-21 07:35:39
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 20, 2010, 07:29:08 PM
Works for me, size and strength of the brackets is the only thing that will probably need to be manufactured, piece of cake.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 21, 2010, 02:52:18 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/ScanImage001.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 21, 2010, 03:32:06 AM
That's better.  That works for me too. 
 
Now you know why I was talking like I was drunk?  You left out a key ingredient.  Like trying to pake a cake without the baking soda
 
I think you just had the revelation after I brought it up.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 21, 2010, 09:20:55 PM
I was figuring on pulling the clutch fork vice pivot push, depending on room I guess.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 22, 2010, 03:29:47 AM
Quote from: dana44
I was figuring on pulling the clutch fork vice pivot push...
Say WHAT????
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 22, 2010, 07:06:40 AM
Swabbies dring allot. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 22, 2010, 07:42:40 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: dana44
I was figuring on pulling the clutch fork vice pivot push...
Say WHAT????

Cable runs from the top of the clutch, back to the tranny, attaches to the rear of the tranny tailshaft bolts with a bracket, then runs forward to the clutch fork and pulls it back. Your way works fine, given the pivot and bracket to hold the cable housing is attached to the engine, no binding there unless a Z bar is used (Z bar bind from the engine to the body/subframe can occur with engine torque-over) instead of a pivot on the front of he bellhousing and cable support farther back. My way doesn't have the starter and exhaust interfering with the setup, and your setup does utilize more stock components, so six one way, one-half dozen the other, both work, my way just has less parts to factory parts.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 23, 2010, 02:34:29 AM
Minimum bend radius of cable is 5".  Your method would require a 10" pulley.   Doesn't sound practical.  Don't forget: this is a push-pull cable inside a conduit sheath.  It's not a clothes line.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 23, 2010, 06:53:24 AM
******Polaraco just sits and watches now******
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 23, 2010, 08:06:51 AM
****** Commando1 just sits on duff while trying to sell 727 for seed money... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)****** Commando12010-05-23 13:07:48
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on May 23, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
Good luck with that
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 23, 2010, 08:05:04 PM
Cables come in various sizes, so it would come out of the firewall at a downward direction to start with, go under the floordoard and curve towards the rear of the manual transmission, nice big arc just like that, no sharp bends at all, nice and smooth. Like I said, the cables come in many lengths, just giving one cable-only solution and less slop/break points in a setup. And yes, I remember, it isn't my setup and I know I don't have the only solution. No big deal.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 24, 2010, 02:14:23 AM
All comments from everyone are always encouraged and appreciated.
Donation$, too...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on May 24, 2010, 08:00:59 PM
Quote from: Commando1
All comments from everyone are always encouraged and appreciated.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
And like I was saying about the cable running down at an angle instead of out the front, it could actually be braced at the firewall INSIDE the cabin and then punched hole in the floorboard instead of going out the front and being in the way of the power brake or anything in the engine bay. It's a cable, it can bend a decent amount, just not kinked at tangent angles and tight curves.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on May 31, 2010, 03:09:19 AM
I just listed the 727 on eBay to try and get some seed money to move things along....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 29, 2010, 12:19:21 PM
Just a note on the progress.


The parts market has really, really, tanked.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on August 29, 2010, 08:17:28 PM
Well your half way there....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on August 29, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
Heck, everything else is parts store stuff anyway.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on August 29, 2010, 08:52:25 PM
You can still get the forks and boots from the dealer.  But now that I think about it, all you need is a boot.  The fork should be with the bell. 
 
I'm the sucker who almost gave away the bell housing to him. . . .  LOL
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Ken on August 29, 2010, 09:58:09 PM

Stan, did you list the trans here?  I'm just curious, I couldn't buy it off you right now anyway...you know the deal (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif) *sigh*

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 30, 2010, 03:49:12 AM

Quote from: Moesy
Stan, did you list the trans here?  I'm just curious, I couldn't buy it off you right now anyway...you know the deal (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley6.gif) *sigh*

Quote from: POLARACO


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 30, 2010, 03:52:41 AM

Quote from: dana44
Heck, everything else is parts store stuff anyway.

Gee, I hope I don't get burned on that 4 speed. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on August 30, 2010, 06:34:43 AM
Just make sure it is a steel/cast iron case, NOT THE ALUMINUM CASE.  The latter is the lightweight overdrive unit and can't handle the power of a big block, let alone built small block.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on August 30, 2010, 08:59:46 AM

Quote from: dana44
Just make sure it is a steel/cast iron case, NOT THE ALUMINUM CASE.  The latter is the lightweight overdrive unit and can't handle the power of a big block, let alone built small block.
Tranny, bell housing, and flywheel are all 68-69 B/C body.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on August 30, 2010, 06:44:26 PM
Wanna buy a fly wheel?  LOL
 
It's steel.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 04, 2010, 04:06:17 AM
Too late.  Got it.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/DSC00004.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/trannyout.jpg)



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 04, 2010, 08:11:12 AM
Guess I better get my end going.  Now that I am back
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 04, 2010, 08:44:06 AM
You have enough on your plate. Take a deep breath and relax for week, will ya?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 04, 2010, 12:31:58 PM
Oh hell no.  I'm tired of tripping over it.  I just got a pallet today.  Over the weekend I'll pull the bell and fork out for you.  You want the Flywheel?  It may need to be resurfaced, but that's cheap POLARACO2010-09-04 22:35:31
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 04, 2010, 04:53:12 PM
I may be going down next weekend to help out...er crack the whip on the old Pffft. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 05, 2010, 02:51:59 AM

I've already said about 3 times I HAVE the flywheel.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 05, 2010, 06:26:48 AM
Good. . .   I'm still getting my head screwed down here.  Unloading, organizing.  getting ready to put the car into position for a major overhaul.  I want to drive this damned thing
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 05, 2010, 01:12:30 PM
Sold. Finally!! Ithink it's going to Brazil of all places.


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/left.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on September 05, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
Chrysler built some cool Mopars in Brazil until they went bankrupt and sold the plants and operations to VW.
The Dart was built down there until the early 80's long after it stopped production here in North America.
The Polara was in fact a Plymouth Cricket.
The Dodge truck was built as well but still implemented the Sweptline body last built in 1971 in North America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoBwj4ZO8g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoBwj4ZO8g)
http://www.allpar.com/world/brazil.html (http://www.allpar.com/world/brazil.html)
CBarge2010-09-05 19:53:18
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 06, 2010, 02:45:58 AM
But then a again, show me the money!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on September 06, 2010, 08:06:22 AM
No worries, and the chances are more than good that it is going to make it into a Mopar that will save another one somewhere else on the planet, and besides, it started here, not there.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Snotty on September 15, 2010, 02:07:53 PM
Hey Stan, I've had some e-mail conversations with a Mopar guy in Canada.  He sent me pictures of his Buddy's car - '69 300 or Newport - in which he put in a pistol-grip 4-speed.  Looked great.  Wish I had kept the pictures!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 16, 2010, 02:51:04 AM

Quote from: Snotty
 Wish I had kept the pictures!
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 29, 2010, 08:56:51 AM


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/jack.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/no_carpet.jpg)





Commando12010-09-29 14:01:13
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 29, 2010, 09:00:49 AM
You getting your seats done at Bobs?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on September 29, 2010, 09:01:24 AM
Those floor pans sure are clean... definitely not a NY car!

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 29, 2010, 09:04:17 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
You getting your seats done at Bobs?


Where's Marc?  I offered him a compromise....(http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/popcrn.gif)
Commando12010-09-29 14:09:24
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 29, 2010, 09:09:23 AM
sending you a PM with his direct number

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 30, 2010, 10:11:48 AM

NEVER AGAIN ! ! 
(http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/holymoly.gif) What a ******g snake's nest:

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/wire_mess.jpg)

I TOLD YOU THERE WAS NO ROOM! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/brakepedalassy_out.jpg)

(http://blogs.citypages.com/food/Steel-Reserve-Can.jpg)

Commando12010-09-30 15:15:30
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 10:21:27 AM
Don't start your old womaning and whinning now. . .   You're the idiot who wanted to do this. . . .(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
Can't say we didn't try to tell you. . . . (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)(http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/badidea.gif) (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/banging.gif) (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/bdh.gif)
 
Move the wiring on the left where it comes through the bulkhead and you should have what you need.  You may have to find a way of flattening that spot.    I'm thinking a couple of steel plates, and some bolts ought to flatten it pretty well and make it look pro on the outside.  Put a plate on each side and use the existing holes to pull the bolts up.  You know what I mean?
 
Speaking of, Whinner, What does the engine side look like in that corner?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 30, 2010, 10:29:26 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
Don't start your old womaning and whinning now. . .   You're the idiot who wanted to do this. . . .(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)


Can't say we didn't try to tell you. . . . (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)(http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/badidea.gif) (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/banging.gif) (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/bdh.gif)

BULL.  Reread the entire thread.  Everyone, especially you, was saying, YahYah Go for it.  It can be done.   No problem.... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Quote from: POLARACO
Don't you think I know what has to be done?  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
[/QUOTE]


Commando12010-09-30 15:30:19
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2010, 10:44:57 AM
What ever you say Crabby
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on September 30, 2010, 11:59:55 AM
I'm tired and my back hurts....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 06:49:59 AM
I'm surprised your head doesn't hurt from all that thinking
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 01, 2010, 10:14:12 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
I'm surprised your head doesn't hurt from all that thinking

This is Moparfins. There's no room for rational thinking around here. Ask anybody...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Commando12010-10-01 15:14:41
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 01, 2010, 10:17:34 AM
Quote from: Commando1


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
That's not what I meant, but OK
 
I was thinking in your case it hurts to think (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 03, 2010, 08:10:48 AM




I have just spent two solid days mucking about in the bowels of hell trying to fabricate the clutch & brake pedal assembly to work in The Nyb .  Working on my back, updside down, under the dash,  has left me feeling like I got hit by a freight train.  As I predicted,  space is tight, tight, tight!  I had to refab the bracket, completely refab the brake pedal because the it hit the steering column, and move some wire harnesses where they came through the firewall.










(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/switch.jpg)










Commando12010-10-03 13:44:39
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 03, 2010, 10:47:48 AM
Good idea to mock it up on a piece of wood!!

I suppose you can make a template off the wood to transfer to the firewall?


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 03, 2010, 11:17:10 AM

Quote from: 1965Windsor361
I suppose you can make a template off the wood to transfer to the firewall?






Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 03, 2010, 11:21:49 AM
Can you cut it out and make a flat box to fit in there? Maybe with a plasma cutter?

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 03, 2010, 12:10:42 PM


Quote from: 1965Windsor361
Can you cut it out and make a flat box to fit in there? Maybe with a plasma cutter?
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/box2.jpg)

Commando12010-10-03 17:35:17
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 03, 2010, 12:33:15 PM
do you have a brake.. or will you weld all the cut pieces together to make the box?

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 03, 2010, 12:37:02 PM


Brake and fabricate by welding.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/brake.jpg)

Commando12010-10-03 17:44:39
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 03, 2010, 02:14:30 PM
So what I'm getting is that there was a running change in the firewalls during the C-body production?

The firewall in my '65 would be completely different than your car?


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2010, 02:26:29 PM
The firewall looks just like my Polaraco
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 03, 2010, 02:55:59 PM
So the change was back in the 60's? Could the Polaraco come with a stick from the factory?

Were there auto and stick firewalls?


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2010, 04:45:06 PM
I don't think there was ever a manual shift after 68 in the C body
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 03, 2010, 06:51:12 PM

The only thing interchangeable with the 73's and down is the air cleaner wing nut.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 03, 2010, 09:54:56 PM

[/QUOTE]

Or the wing nut trying behind the wheel.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 04, 2010, 03:16:43 AM
You all laugh.  When The Nyb  makes the cover of Mopar Action and Erhenberg writes a technical article on it ....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 04, 2010, 03:35:52 AM
LOL... That would be the day the Mopar mags do anything on the C's...

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2010, 07:56:05 AM
That will be the day. . . .
 
Two problems with it.  It's big and it's big.  Been looking for a 74 75 dodge
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 04, 2010, 11:47:36 AM



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/mount_to_firewall.jpg)




Commando12010-10-04 16:49:28
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2010, 12:55:59 PM
Is that the booster on the left or the clutch?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 04, 2010, 02:55:41 PM
Good work.. I hope you don't have any undercoating that could start on fire on the other side of the firewall. It makes a big mess and is hard to put out..




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 04, 2010, 02:56:55 PM
So I went back and read through the thread...Stan...why did you not go with the cable clutch system??

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 04, 2010, 02:59:02 PM

Quote from: Snotty
Hey Stan, I've had some e-mail conversations with a Mopar guy in Canada.  He sent me pictures of his Buddy's car - '69 300 or Newport - in which he put in a pistol-grip 4-speed.  Looked great.  Wish I had kept the pictures!

Are these the ones?

(http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/thrashingcows/Garage/694404spd.jpg)

(http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/thrashingcows/Garage/694404spd3.jpg)

(http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/thrashingcows/Garage/694404spd2.jpg)



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2010, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: thrashingcows
So I went back and read through the thread...Stan...why did you not go with the cable clutch system??

He forgot what he was doing
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 04, 2010, 07:00:17 PM
Well after looking at what Stan's had to do so far, I really think the cable system could have saved a lot of extra work.  Yes the cable system had a few small issues, BUT, I think we, as a group, could have over come those quite easily.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 05, 2010, 03:20:18 AM



Quote from: thrashingcows
Well after looking at what Stan's had to do so far, I really think the cable system could have saved a lot of extra work.  Yes the cable system had a few small issues, BUT, I think we, as a group, could have over come those quite easily.

Would solve a lot of my problems though, wouldn't it?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Quote from: POLARACO
Is that the booster on the left or the clutch?
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/explanation.jpg)


Commando12010-10-05 08:33:09
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 05, 2010, 03:26:03 AM

Quote from: thrashingcows
Quote from: Snotty
Hey Stan, I've had some e-mail conversations with a Mopar guy in Canada.  He sent me pictures of his Buddy's car - '69 300 or Newport - in which he put in a pistol-grip 4-speed.  Looked great.  Wish I had kept the pictures!

Are these the ones?
I'm hoping The Nyb  comes out as good.  I'm in wayyyyyyyy too deep now.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 05, 2010, 07:43:39 AM
Well if it's any constulation. . . . .
 
Your Trans is at the terminal. . .Go get it
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 05, 2010, 08:29:43 AM
Yes sir.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 06, 2010, 10:16:27 AM
By the time he gets this 4 speed conversion finished he will be old enough to need one of these..LOL

Click Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHZhgram2E&feature=related)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 06, 2010, 11:50:57 AM


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/teeth.jpg)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/tranny_on_dolly.jpg)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)



Commando12010-10-06 16:51:46
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 06, 2010, 01:37:31 PM
So you want me to file a claim?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 07, 2010, 03:19:32 AM
BTW, I have  ID'd it as a 65/66, not a 67.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 07, 2010, 07:57:29 AM
The date doesn't mean much.  It was definitely a factory 4 speed car.  I remember the fender tag.  The engine was swapped to a 440, but the trans was definitely the original
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 07, 2010, 07:58:04 AM
I do NOT like working way up under the dash!!!!  It takes me a day to recover.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/hole.jpg)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/inside.jpg)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/firewallside.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 07, 2010, 07:58:27 AM
BTW, that didn't leave here like that
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 07, 2010, 08:01:49 AM
I choose my battles.  Leave this one be.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 09, 2010, 11:33:02 AM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/installed.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 09, 2010, 03:17:45 PM
The brake pedal is crooked.
 
POLARACO2010-10-09 20:18:24
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 09, 2010, 03:47:47 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Major hurdel is now out of the way!  The clutch/brake pedal assembly is now installed.
My back hurts so bad I might have to take a week off...
Oh,yeah?
Well you drive 6 hours to move a full size sofabed!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Plus Steve looked like he was in a bar fight,busted his stitches and still lifted the damn thing.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 09, 2010, 04:42:23 PM
I have this feeling that you will shim that pedal to make it straight again... I just have this feeling..




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on October 09, 2010, 04:53:38 PM
Ahhhh   Jas
 
Look at the picture again
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 10, 2010, 03:56:13 AM
Trust me! 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 10, 2010, 04:46:07 AM
This will be one of a kind..

Just like when I had my Big Block Aspen that looked factory people will say when they remember having a friend with a 4 speed car just like yours..

I used to nod and let them talk then laugh my a$$ off after they leave.


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 10, 2010, 05:54:16 AM
Wait until I produce a "correct" 4 speed VIN tag......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 10, 2010, 01:33:49 PM


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/mockupsm1.jpg)



Commando12010-10-10 18:34:28
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 10, 2010, 03:41:26 PM
Better brace that bracket at the bottom too.  Maybe go back under the lower starter bolt
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Ken on October 10, 2010, 07:23:23 PM

Jeeeze Louise! Get a mini-stater on that thing already!
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 10, 2010, 07:54:39 PM
Quote from: Moesy
Jeeeze Louise! Get a mini-stater on that thing already! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)


 
 
Don't tell him that. . .He'll be in engineering for 6 months!  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 11, 2010, 02:57:58 AM

Quote from: Moesy
Jeeeze Louise! Get a mini-stater on that thing already!
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Mini starter? 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 11, 2010, 04:52:59 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 11, 2010, 04:56:53 AM
Mancini Racing In Michigan is a great place for these starters.

Mini-Starters (http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/starters.html)



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 11, 2010, 05:44:35 AM


Hey, nothing mini going into my car.   Especially at 150 bucks! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/slave11.jpg)




Commando12010-10-11 13:16:52
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 11, 2010, 07:49:55 AM
You gotta be kidding.
 
The mini starter is more powerful than the high torque!  And opens up allot of room under there.  The starter doesn't get as hot either.  The car will start faster when it's hot too.  The only thing they don't like is prolonged starting in a no start situation.  But we all know you have a well oiled machine there.  You just look at it and it starts. LOL
 
Now it's a question if it will go forward or not.  Ahhhh  you don't need a clutch anyway.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 11, 2010, 08:16:12 AM
FWIW - This is the web article that is guiding my installation:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=100 (http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=100)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 11, 2010, 08:24:03 AM
I'm not too wild about the return spring. . .   It cocks the arm and ram on a return that way.  Return spring on the arm, straight forward, is better.
 
Don't forget you need a flex hose going to the slave to compensate for the engine torque.    You'll need to anchor it in a good spot whenre it meets the line.
 
Just my .02 as an armchair quarterback.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 11, 2010, 08:28:59 AM

Quote from: POLARACO

I guess I have to say thanks. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 11, 2010, 09:38:24 AM
Heh. . .  I was hoping you had thought about that yourself.
 
Who got you to mount the slave on the bell housing?  Oooooohhhh  I forgot about that (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 11, 2010, 10:30:54 AM
Heck I have a mini starter in my 87 ram and the wagon, got them both from the wreckers for $25 each.  One was from a early 90's V6 dodge van, the other was from a dakota with a 5.2.




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 12, 2010, 11:44:07 AM

had been an outdoor planter for 30 years.
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/transmissionpainted.jpg)



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/bell_housing_painted.jpg)



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/bracket.jpg)



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/Assembly.jpg)


Commando12010-10-12 16:47:45
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 12, 2010, 12:57:32 PM
Looks good...

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2010, 07:41:53 AM

Quote from: 1965Windsor361
Looks good...


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/finished_slave.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 13, 2010, 08:14:15 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 13, 2010, 11:06:59 AM





Now, how do I replace that output shaft seal?  Anyone?
 


Commando12010-10-13 16:10:35
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 13, 2010, 11:50:29 AM
Do you have a replacement NOS style output shaft seal?  The old one comes off easiest with the rubber boot cut off, then use a simple seal puller to pop it out.  If it doesn't come out then carefully work a flat blade screw driver along the outer edge.  The new one goes in best with a big socket, or a piece of PVC/ABS pipe.




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 13, 2010, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
(http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/huh.gif)  Wow.  Never expected that from you...

Anywho...
Allayed one of my bigger fears today.  They're both 30T. (http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/Smilies/dancefeet.gif)

 

 

Hot Wrench
 
See what Brian said.   use a small sharp chissle and a small hammer to walk it out, then angle the chissel t finish it.  SOS
 
You were expecting a (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)  ???
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 14, 2010, 10:57:10 AM




Quote from: thrashingcows
 The old one comes off easiest with...



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/seal_closeup.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/30t_mate.jpg)



Commando12010-10-14 16:02:51
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 14, 2010, 01:23:05 PM
I'd say that's mot the right one.  I have seen the correct replacements
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 14, 2010, 05:51:55 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
I'd say that's not the right one.  I have seen the correct replacements

That's as close as your going to find in the aftermarket Steve.  I went through this when I did the tailshaft bushing on the wagon.  You can still get the original ones trough chrysler though.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 14, 2010, 08:43:15 PM
I just got the right one, like the original a couple of months ago for the 518.  That just dawned on me.
 
As long as it works
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 15, 2010, 03:42:06 AM


Quote from: POLARACO
I just got the right one, like the original a couple of months ago for the 518.  That just dawned on me.
 


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/on_the_bencj.jpg)                                                                                                                                             
Commando12010-10-15 08:44:07
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 15, 2010, 05:38:08 PM
I paid almost $100 for the tailshaft seal on the NV4500 (5spd) behind my cummins.  Not available in the aftermarket.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)  I would have gladly paid $12 for aftermarket seal.


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2010, 09:19:22 AM
Huh. . .I paid 9 Bucks for mine. . .  You just don't know where to shop.
 
(http://www.timetravelispossible.com/images/Wile_E.Coyote2.gif)
 
 
 
POLARACO2010-10-16 14:24:32
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 16, 2010, 01:15:39 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Huh. . .I paid 9 Bucks for mine. . .  You just don't know where to shop.
 
 

Please enlighten me...I'll pick up 3 extra's at that price just to have.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2010, 03:14:53 PM
You blew it Brian. . .   I was outdoing Stan
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2010, 07:49:58 AM

Outdo this (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif):
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/shifter.jpg)

Try and find one.
Commando12010-10-18 12:51:50
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2010, 09:56:30 AM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/underneath.jpg)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/ontop.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2010, 11:07:35 AM
Will it do that if the driveshaft is not in it?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
No
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2010, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Commando1
You have never, ever, seen this before:
A 4 speed in a New Yorker Brougham!
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/underneath.jpg)


Not to bust your bubble, But have you figured out the trans mount yet?  I need to see your cross member.  You may have to scrounge a 66-68 cross member, which looks like it will bolt right in
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 18, 2010, 01:03:43 PM
Make one... you have made everything else..

Some square tubing, flat plate and a few gussets and it's done. I would put the two piece polyurethane mount in while you there..

Don't waste your time looking for a stock piece..  Since it's it's up in the air, making a mount would be easy...


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2010, 01:19:38 PM

[/QUOTE]


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 18, 2010, 01:22:17 PM
 There will be zero problems w/the tranny mount.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 18, 2010, 02:56:44 PM
You mean it's leaking with the shaft in?  Allot?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 19, 2010, 02:37:36 AM



Commando12010-10-19 07:38:05
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 19, 2010, 03:29:57 AM
It will leak with the shaft out.. it better not when it's in..

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 19, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
I already answered that you dink.  You wait till Friday Buddy  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 19, 2010, 01:01:07 PM


Now comes the part when I fabricate a 4 speed tunnel hump.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/underneath_opening.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/top_opening.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/outline.jpg)


Commando12010-10-19 18:08:08
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 19, 2010, 01:49:55 PM
I see Bob's been there
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 



POLARACO2010-10-19 18:50:28
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 19, 2010, 09:10:39 PM

I thought the nightmares were over......


here Stan, don't be a cheepo!
(http://www.yearone.com/images/parts/mq_mz/mt22.jpg)

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=1 (http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=1)

stitcherbob2010-10-20 02:12:04
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 20, 2010, 01:16:27 AM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 20, 2010, 07:04:02 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/humpframe.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on October 20, 2010, 03:04:43 PM

Well Stanley, IF you had been following along you would remember that I haven't been following along! So there!

I would have put the trans in, shove the shifter up through the floor, dump the B body hump over it to center it and then see what needs to be moved, cut, sliced, diced and lengthened/shrunk.....this is just brain surgery, not rocket science (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Now you can order a molded carpet for a 4 speed tunnel and have them leave it long all around for trimming.....

ps- better check your foot on that gas pedal.... the front of that hump needs to return at more of a gentle curve to give yer ankles room

stitcherbob2010-10-20 20:06:33
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 20, 2010, 03:12:53 PM
I really need to pick up a 68-70 B-body 4 speed hump to compare with my 65-68 C-body one.  I don't believe there is as big a difference in the humps as Stan implies.  They are close, and would only require some slight modifications to work. IMO

I think the later 71-74 B/E Body hump would have worked better in your formal there Stan.




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 20, 2010, 04:19:47 PM
I think he is doing a great job...

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 20, 2010, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Hey, hockey puck.  
First of all, that's a B-body hump.  It won't work on a C-body.  Ask me why I know (at a great expense).
Secondly, the ONLY source for a C-body hump no longer sells them.  They were hand pounded in Peru (no lie).
Thirdly, a C-body hump won't fit in a formal.
If you had been following along carefully, you would have noted that I have stated emphatically that there is no commonality between Formals and pre-74's.

Next question, please....

My question is what are you driving tomorrow to your cruise in? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 20, 2010, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: Commando1
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/humpframe.jpg)




 
 
The corners are supposed to be rounded.
 
11:15  600 miles to go. Bahhhh  bahhhhh  bahhhhhh  I don't feel like a mountain goat anymore.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 21, 2010, 02:47:01 AM

Quote from: stitcherbob
I knew that.  Busting your chops! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

I once bought a B-body hump to put in a C-body.  Not even close.  It required so much surgery that it would have been easier and cheaper to start from scratch.  Been there, done that, Bob.

Now you can order a molded carpet for a 4 speed tunnel and have them leave it long all around for trimming.....
Yah.  Sure.  "Hello.  I need a carpet.  1976 Chrysler New Yorker.  Four speed.  Yah you heard me Bozo..."
That was the first thing I checked....


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 21, 2010, 02:49:19 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
 
The corners are supposed to be rounded.
My English Wheel is out for repairs....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 21, 2010, 04:11:59 AM


Quote from: Commando1

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
1965Windsor3612010-10-21 09:12:27
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on October 21, 2010, 04:12:26 AM
That's what stumps are for!  Seriously, looks like nice fabrication work, Stanley. That's quite an undertaking. 

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 21, 2010, 11:04:10 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/hump.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on October 21, 2010, 03:42:15 PM
Looking good!!!!

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 21, 2010, 04:27:02 PM
Still think this is darn close to what you made there Stan.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/09/%21BtpvwH%21CGk%7E$%28KGrHqQOKk%21EvPnWIPp+BL81V6LoSg%7E%7E_12.JPG)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: firedome
That's what stumps are for!  Seriously, looks like nice fabrication work, Stanley. That's quite an undertaking. 


 
 
Yeah
 
I have a 5 pounder in the truck.  I'll round it out for ya (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
You gonna blame me for calling you too many times?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 22, 2010, 03:21:39 AM

Quote from: thrashingcows
Still think this is darn close to what you made there Stan.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/09/%21BtpvwH%21CGk%7E$%28KGrHqQOKk%21EvPnWIPp+BL81V6LoSg%7E%7E_12.JPG)

The E bodies had the shifter mounted at the end of the tailshaft.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 22, 2010, 01:19:54 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/humpandpedals.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 22, 2010, 01:46:01 PM
I know this just got taken. . . .  I put the column up for Stan
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 23, 2010, 01:58:57 AM
Yah.  I asked him to hold it while I put the bolts in.....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on October 23, 2010, 01:01:33 PM

Quote from: Commando1
Yah.  I asked him to hold it while I put the bolts in.....

That's what your head is for......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on October 31, 2010, 05:48:09 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/flywheelinstalled.jpg)

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/BHinstalled.jpg)



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on October 31, 2010, 02:04:02 PM
Butterfingers
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 01, 2010, 04:07:26 AM
__it happens......
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 02, 2010, 12:59:36 PM
Well, I found out that the tunnel I fabb'd is too small.  Since I'm sidelined waiting for a critical part to arrive UPS,  I re-fabb'd it.  Now the traditional boot will be centered properly.


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/DSC00007.JPG)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 02, 2010, 08:11:19 PM
Hey Homely
 
I sent this to Eherenberg
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 02, 2010, 08:12:12 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Well, I found out that the tunnel I fabb'd is too small.  Since I'm sidelined waiting for a critical part to arrive UPS,  I re-fabb'd it.  Now the traditional boot will be centered properly.






(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 03, 2010, 03:26:01 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
Hey Homely
 
I sent this to Eherenberg
 
I'll make the cover of M.A. before Polaraco does.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 03, 2010, 08:26:35 AM
I doubt it. . .They discriminate.  But at least I rattled them enough to start looking at them.  Like the other Magizine.  You remember the chewing I gave them.
 
Besides.  Polaraco is old news.  Guys have copied it since.  Maybe the New Yorker when it's done will get their attention
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 03, 2010, 01:08:28 PM



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/stuck.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 03, 2010, 01:20:00 PM
Steve just called and gave me something to think about.  I'll try again in the morning.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 03, 2010, 04:09:00 PM
If you don't forget      (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

\\
I basically told him he may have the clutch slightly out of line.  Put the fork in and tie back the fork in the depressed position and then walk the trans in.
 
He has to have the trans in as far as he can get it, then tie back the fork and then wiggle the tail shaft.  It should slip right in then.
 
Cheaters alignment tool.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: bowk bernardo on November 03, 2010, 08:55:51 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
The right shifter Stan and you should not have a problem.  I've done them before

Hi Polaraco. I have problem with my right shifter stan. What can I do for me to solve it? How did you do it? 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 04, 2010, 03:12:47 AM
Over........
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 04, 2010, 07:20:15 AM
I would have to agree. Put the tranny in gear, like first gear, lower the engine a little more for angle, then twist the rear output shaft to engage the input shaft into the clutch/pilot bearing. Use a couple studs in the back of the bellhousing to the tranny case itself to help line that portion up at the proper angle (gets a little bit deceptive trying to eyeball the angle with the engine tipping down and the tranny hanging there on a 2X4, this helps get the angle right). If the studs can't be taken out after the fact because of case room/interference, make sure there are threads enough to get a flat washer, lock washer and nut on the end to tighten her up.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2010, 07:42:02 AM
Can you elaborate?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 04, 2010, 11:01:53 AM

(http://i56.tinypic.com/1znl6kx.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 04, 2010, 04:10:02 PM
How does the drive shaft fit?
 
I'm dying to see what you did for the trans mount. . .  I don't believe it was thAT EASY
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 04, 2010, 07:41:07 PM
Good Job!!!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 05, 2010, 03:06:36 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
How does the drive shaft fit?






[/QUOTE]

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 05, 2010, 06:22:37 AM
Shaadddd App you.  Who got the transmission in.
 
I forgot!  Sue me
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 05, 2010, 08:17:22 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
Shaadddd App you.  Who got the transmission in.
 

me and Lance.... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 08, 2010, 10:01:50 AM
Today was a very good day.














Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 08, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
You'll be powershifting second in no time...

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 08, 2010, 02:22:53 PM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


Proud of ya son
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 08, 2010, 02:55:26 PM
Told ya ya could do it! Good job.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: 300rag on November 08, 2010, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: Commando1
(http://i56.tinypic.com/s4x3et.jpg)

 



 
 
 
 
Wow, look at all the room for the duals (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 08, 2010, 03:23:54 PM
Lots of room for the TTI 2 1/2 kit.... LOL

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 09, 2010, 02:50:50 AM
 
Quote from: 300Rag
Wow, look at all the room for the duals (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) Sheesh.  let me finish this project first, wiilya? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 09, 2010, 06:25:17 AM
Yeah. . .That exhaust scared the crap out of us while we were looking at the car. . .  Thought Stan was going to have to make all sorts of temp mods to it.  Phew.  Then reality set in and all was good.  See what a couple of Iron Cities can do stan?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 09, 2010, 11:26:16 AM

It's notI Iron Cities.  It's Steel reserve.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/hydraulicclutch.jpg)


Except it doesn't work.  Arghhhh. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)  Figures since it's totally 100% built from scratch.   It's been a not-so-good day because of other issues so I'm gonna get drunk now and leave the solution for tomorrow.


Commando12010-11-09 16:28:15
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 09, 2010, 12:04:30 PM
have a double whiskey for me too...

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 09, 2010, 12:22:09 PM
did you bleed them yet?  Gravity bleeding should work.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 09, 2010, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
did you bleed them yet?  Gravity bleeding should work.
Kill two birds with one stone.
Open the bleeder screw and then open the bottle of whiskey..
Check head---and slave cylinder in the morning..LOL!
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 09, 2010, 06:32:54 PM
OK  we're at the classic point here for me to ask the question.
 
[color=#cc0000 size=7]IS IT DONE YET?[/color]
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 09, 2010, 06:56:41 PM
Not enough travel or what? Slave cylinder looks a little on the short side.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 09, 2010, 07:56:12 PM
Quote from: dana44
Not enough travel or what? Slave cylinder looks a little on the short side.

I think it is just right.  The picture may be diceving
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 09, 2010, 09:08:58 PM


You may need to tighten up the leverage on that slave cylinder.....they are plenty strong enough to move the lever when shortened

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/stanlee.JPG)

or you may need to alter the angle of attack

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/stanlee2.JPG)

stitcherbob2010-11-10 02:15:34
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 09, 2010, 11:04:16 PM

Quote from: CBarge
Quote from: POLARACO
did you bleed them yet?  Gravity bleeding should work.
Kill two birds with one stone.
Open the bleeder screw and then open the bottle of whiskey..
Well that didn't work either cuz I put the whiskey in the resevoir and drank the brake fluid...yuck.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Ken on November 10, 2010, 02:02:11 PM

Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: CBarge
Quote from: POLARACO
did you bleed them yet?  Gravity bleeding should work.
Kill two birds with one stone.
Open the bleeder screw and then open the bottle of whiskey..

Wait.....what??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)That's ALCOHOL ABUSE!!!! (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 10, 2010, 02:57:47 PM
It works.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 10, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
It works as in the drinking, or the components are working?
 
We gotta work on the quality of the ocmponents a little bit now that you have a working setup.  A threaded rod is too weak to last very long, somewhere around a grade 2 or 3 at best, slave cylinder rods are around a grade six (would hate to have you stranded somewhere, and besides, you know how to weld so we need to bet a ball end on the clutch fork and an adjustable rod for that slave cylinder, or, this will do everything but get you drunk   http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1524538 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1524538) .
Self adjusting, pretty durable one out of a Dakota pickup (you could get the whole thing out of a salvage yard without a problem, but $132 is reasonable for all new parts pre-bled, and for hydraulic, not jumpy-sensitive, but I gotta see something a little more durable for a big block four speed Stan.
 
You proved it can work and you could get it done, now make it durable and repairable.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Ken on November 10, 2010, 08:01:00 PM

Quote from: Commando1
It works.

Aw c'mon, why so modest, Stan? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 11, 2010, 01:50:35 AM


Quote from: dana44
  http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1524538 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1524538) .

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

BTW: I couldn't backtrack to find the P/N.  Give me the link. 
Commando12010-11-11 06:58:07
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 11, 2010, 02:57:39 AM
I never use threaded rod on anything.. I always buy solid rod and thread it myself. 

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 11, 2010, 06:24:42 PM
[/QUOTE]



Now, why didn't you give me that link two months ago...... (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)



[/QUOTE]

Sorry Stan, I don't know what I was thinking. This is out of a Dakota pickup, here is the link to the part number page. 
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php)
 
If you get rid of everything and use rockauto.com, you can select anything you want (quite the good place to look at parts and compare part to part from model to model, a well organized site), I just figured a Dakota pickup would be pretty common to salvage, easy to get everything, but remember, like the PT Cruiser, no bleeder on the bottom slave cylinder (mine was fun to bleed), thus you could get a complete one all bled and ready to mount easy enough by using this, and it is self-adjusting, the slave cylinder is like five inches long plus the rod, so no adjustment needed, and also they are ALMOST  as smooth as a cable or manual clutch, they don't all the sudden engage like some hydraulic ones do.  I am sure any Ram manual tranny setup would work also, but I think the Neon/2.4 setup may be a little weak for a A833 setup.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 15, 2010, 06:43:28 AM
Let me start of YOUR day with a good laugh at my expense.






Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 15, 2010, 08:00:32 AM
LOL.... that is priceless... LOL

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2010, 08:32:33 AM
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
 
No problem Lance (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 15, 2010, 10:25:09 AM
OK.  Enuff funnin around.

What did I forget now? (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2010, 12:01:50 PM
Ground the yellow wire terminal on the starter relay.
 
POLARACO2010-11-15 19:07:17
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2010, 12:02:03 PM
Guess I better call you
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 15, 2010, 12:07:19 PM

Quote from: Commando1
Let me start of YOUR day with a good laugh at my expense.






 Niiice......(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 15, 2010, 03:24:37 PM
I laughed loud enough the wife wanted to know what was going on!
 
Battery power? Ground the brown wire that goes up to the starter relay to the body, which neutralizes it all the way and permanent without harm.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2010, 04:18:43 PM
You did the same thing I did Ed.  It's not the brown wire, it's the yellow wire on the relay.  The brown wire is for the salanoid on the starter
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Ken on November 15, 2010, 04:45:30 PM

Quote from: Commando1
Let me start of YOUR day with a good laugh at my expense.






(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) You came THIS CLOSE to owing me a new monitor and keyboard (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 15, 2010, 08:20:41 PM
Quote from: POLARACO
You did the same thing I did Ed.  It's not the brown wire, it's the yellow wire on the relay.  The brown wire is for the salanoid on the starter

Really? Sorry, my Charger has been in storage since September 2006 and I already fixed that one. I know it is to short out the neutral lockout, whatever color that wire is, I think the charger had a house 12 gauge wire running from it when I got it from the tweaker that did a lot of damage to her.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2010, 03:53:31 AM



On Formals, there is a YELLOW wire on the relay that goes to the ignition switch.  There is a BROWN wire with YELLOW marker stripe that is suppose to go the Neutral Starter Switch.




(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/ScanImagea.jpg)





Commando12010-11-16 10:14:52
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 16, 2010, 06:37:01 AM
Hell of a guy
 
Clutch doesn't work.  How about some more explaination that that please. . .
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2010, 07:35:59 AM
Lemme finish the flippin dash first.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 16, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
Does anyone have a 4speed in a vehicle that can measure the trow of the throwout bearing fork to make sure Stan's slave cylinder has enough distance of travel.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 16, 2010, 04:21:18 PM
Even a 3 speed will work.  I have one, but it's going to be hard to get too.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 16, 2010, 06:09:42 PM
Wait.  We're jumping the gun.  Let me finish up top and then I'll do some trouble shooting.  Coming up with scenarios of what is the problem this soon is just throwing jello onto the wall.  Wait.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 21, 2010, 09:47:33 AM

Torch time..........................
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 21, 2010, 09:49:52 AM
I'm looking for a B-body showcar  quality body/roller that I can drop my entire drive train into.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: 300rag on November 21, 2010, 12:08:56 PM
B body 440 4speed. Where's the uniqueness of that??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 21, 2010, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Commando1
I'm looking for a B-body showcar  quality body/roller that I can drop my entire drive train into.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/68Cbarge/waygun/DSC02032.jpg)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: 300rag on November 21, 2010, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: 300Rag
B body 440 4speed. Where's the uniqueness of that??(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif)


 
 
 
Well Leaburn, the Waygun didn't spring to mind. Guess when someone says B body I automatically think 2 or 4 door.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 21, 2010, 02:37:03 PM
440 4 speed wagon would be certainly unique.. LOL

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 21, 2010, 02:39:22 PM


Quote from: CBarge
Quote from: Commando1
I'm looking for a B-body showcar  quality body/roller that I can drop my entire drive train into.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 21, 2010, 03:07:18 PM
Please don't do a cookie cutter B-body car...I just went over to Mopfarts and looked through the B-body cars for sale....Yaaaawwwnnnn.....way to blend into the crowd.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 21, 2010, 03:11:29 PM
That Wagon is screaming for a Keisler 5 speed conversion!!!

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 21, 2010, 03:12:12 PM
How did we get on Leaburns wagon in this topic????  I would much rather hear about Stans successes and woes
 
POLARACO2010-11-21 20:12:52
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 21, 2010, 03:15:56 PM



Quote from: POLARACO
How did we get on Leaburns wagon in this topic????  I would much rather hear about Stans successes and woes
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif)
 






Commando12010-11-21 20:30:08
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 21, 2010, 03:20:42 PM
Sorry.. I love wagons... LOL

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: 300rag on November 21, 2010, 03:32:11 PM
Quote from: Commando1
 
Yah.  Back to me, dammit.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
I need some lovin....

 
 
 
 
 
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)  Geeze.... you're the one who brought up B bodies, but we still loves ya (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 21, 2010, 03:33:05 PM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
How did we get on Leaburns wagon in this topic????  I would much rather hear about Stans successes and woes
 
 
(http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/cry-baby-scott-plaster.jpg)   [color=#ffff00 ="Apple-style-span"] Yah.  Back to me, dammit.  [/color]



I need some lovin....

Don't care if you need lovin. . .We only care about your car. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
 
So why the silence all of a sudden?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 21, 2010, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: thrashingcows
Please don't do a cookie cutter B-body car...I just went over to Mopfarts and looked through the B-body cars for sale....Yaaaawwwnnnn.....way to blend into the crowd.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif)





 
 
I agree.  SOS
 
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 21, 2010, 03:43:17 PM
Not silent.  Just ain't taking phone calls.  You know I HATE the %^$# phone.
(http://cspcentral.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/no-phone.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 22, 2010, 10:04:17 AM
OK, chubby....  stop worrying.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/dash_lite.jpg)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 22, 2010, 12:52:28 PM
Didn't all this come apart by your hands?  Shouldn't all go back together the opposite direction as the deconstruction?

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 22, 2010, 01:20:15 PM
Hey!  I put that steering wheel up for you.  It's down again!  LOL
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 22, 2010, 01:34:01 PM

Quote from: thrashingcows
 Shouldn't all go back together the opposite direction as the deconstruction?
We're not talking Jeep CJ-2 here!  I have absolutely zero idea how they did it on the assembly line.  I tried every way way possible.  I couldn't even PAY anyone to do this dash.  After one day, they would send it back to me and say "you're on your own, fella".   I know Chubby's up there saying "what's the problem?"  but unless you've been intimate and really played touchy-feely down to the bare metal on a Formal dash, you have not experience hell.  Plus I'm 61............
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 22, 2010, 02:47:02 PM

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/isitdoneyet.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 22, 2010, 02:51:46 PM



Quote from: Commando1


HELLO, I'M 61....

 AND I JUST DROVE MY 8000 HORSEPOWER 300MPH TOP FUEL FUNNYCAR TO A 15TH CHAMPIONSHIP....

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/10/204-JohnForce-Pomona2_t470.jpg)

NEED ANY HELP WITH YER LITTLE PROJECT THERE?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
stitcherbob2010-11-22 19:53:44
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on November 22, 2010, 03:56:43 PM
Hoooeeee! I'm glad to be only 60!!

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 22, 2010, 05:13:50 PM

Well the factory probably had the dash all pre assembled then just dropped it in as a whole unit, just a few loose ends, firewall connector and your done.  Going back toether your way is probably much harder.

I know when I had to pull the dash apart on the wagon to replace a few of the dash light bulbs it was darn near friggin impossible to get some of those connections back up, over, around and on.  So I feel your pain and can only guess how much LESS room you have under the dash of your car.

Do you have any grand kids with small arms and hands.....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

thrashingcows2010-11-22 22:14:22
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 22, 2010, 05:38:13 PM
Chubby has taken dozens of dashes apart and put them back together.  The most difficult to date is the 65 and 66 Chrysler.  The 60 to 62 dome dash runs a very close seond.  As the years went on, they got easier..  That's why I am having trouble understanding the problem.
 
You took on a project nobody else has done.  And almost got it right out of the box.  I just can't understand why you can't put a simple dash board together.  I just think you built a barrier and don't want to break it down
 
Brian
The dash frame is welded into the car.  It seems to me they had to assemble the dash in the car.  I guess I'm going to find out soon.  I'm putting one of those dash boards into Polaraco.
 
POLARACO2010-11-22 22:38:38
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 22, 2010, 07:31:25 PM

 
Brian
The dash frame is welded into the car.  It seems to me they had to assemble the dash in the car.  I guess I'm going to find out soon.  I'm putting one of those dash boards into Polaraco.
 [/QUOTE]

I did not realize the dash was part of the body structure...that lends a whole new outlook on the assembly.

I really hope you stick with it Stan...take a break for a while and enjoy something else.  Heck when I was restoring my 68 Coronet rag, I was so pissed at the car after spend huge $$$$ on metal and paint, I pushed it into the garage, locked it, and forgot it for almost 3 years!! I bought an almost completely original 73 340 RR to enjoy in the mean time.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 22, 2010, 08:01:41 PM
If Stan is having this much trouble with it, I wonder what I am getting into.  I will be adapting it to a 72 and rewiring the whole front of the car, computer and all.  I want to reduce some of the wiring under the hood
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2010, 03:04:54 AM

Quote from: POLARACO
 I want to reduce some of the wiring under the hood

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on November 23, 2010, 05:23:16 AM
Steve, just imo... but I think trying to put a post 73 dash in a 72
will be dammed difficult, if not impossible, the 72 dash isn't all that
bad, same one as in the F3, 69-73, with minor trim variations.



IIRC when the '74s came out,  Chrylser touted that the new dash
was a huge servicing advance because of new modular construction that
allowed sections of it to come out easily. They were all pretty much
the same in full size Dod, Plym, Chry, again except for minor trim
variations.



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 23, 2010, 06:21:36 AM
Quote from: Commando1
Quote from: POLARACO
 I want to [color=#ff00ff ="Apple-style-span"]reduce [/color][/b]some of the wiring under the hood


You're an Industrial Ungeneer.  I'm electrical.  You think I can't do this?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2010, 08:41:09 AM
Mark my words......
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 23, 2010, 10:38:18 AM
What can't be done?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on November 23, 2010, 11:30:28 AM
Can 'O Worms. 

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2010, 12:18:27 PM

There!   I  ((http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif)) fixed  it !!!!!!!!!!!!!  (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flame.gif)
(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/finished.jpg)


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/manuals.jpg)

Commando12010-11-24 10:18:21
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 23, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
But does it run!?!
 
Regarding the dash going into Polaraco.  You guys are soooo defeated from the start.  I looked at the shape of the windshield, I measured the width between the bulkhead.  I looked at the AC/heater connection location.  I have to take out the box on the firewall, but I planned on that anyway.  The heater box is advanced over the 72, it's all inside the car, the height, width, depth is almost the exact same as the 72,  . . . .
 
As the bimbo in "My Cousin Vinny" said, SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on November 23, 2010, 03:43:13 PM
It's the wiring anomalies I'd be worried about... 

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 23, 2010, 04:12:22 PM
It will be interesting.....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2010, 06:55:40 AM


(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/shifter_installed.jpg)

Commando12010-11-24 12:28:52
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 24, 2010, 07:44:09 AM
So what are the plans for this.....

(http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/thrashingcows/Misc/shifter_installed.jpg)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Dumpster-non.JPG)
Commando12010-11-24 12:55:37
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 24, 2010, 11:49:23 AM
I knew the shifter would clear, and knew it was going to be tight.  I had no worries there.  Just watch it slamming in 3rd.  LOL
 
You have the other issues solved?  Yer holding out on us.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2010, 12:01:43 PM
Right after I figure out why the clutch isn't working.  Schitt, that's minor right now....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 24, 2010, 12:08:33 PM
Yup welding and grinding sparks will ruin your glass in short order....I found this out with the glass in the old shop on the farm.




Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 24, 2010, 12:10:16 PM
And all this is because when I was 20, my father handed down to me his 100k mi Newport....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 24, 2010, 12:59:26 PM
Hello Lance?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 24, 2010, 02:08:11 PM
You can always adjust the angle of the stick shifter with a little bit of heat.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 24, 2010, 04:24:20 PM
He doesn't have any heat








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POLARACO2010-11-24 21:24:51
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 24, 2010, 05:12:18 PM
Does Stan have a press, or can he use your butt cheeks to fix it that way?(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 26, 2010, 09:58:39 AM









Commando12010-11-26 15:03:28
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 11:59:50 AM
I was waiting for this. . .
 
It was said before.  I believe Ed questioned the length of the slave cylinder.  It doesn't have enough travel.
 
I think I mentioned, some dodge trucks had hydraulic clutches.  I think it was the second generation.  (96 to '02)  I know the 250's in the first gen were mechanical
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 26, 2010, 01:43:04 PM


I still have the link for that neato Dakota complete setup by rhinopac from Rock Auto.  Think I should just bite the bullet and buy it?

Commando12010-11-26 19:52:15
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 02:19:34 PM
You just need a slave.  The rest is all good
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 26, 2010, 02:23:42 PM
Can you get to a salvage yard and pull the whole thing from there, saving a little money and actually seeing how it mounts and all that? Or at least have a buddy with a Dakota manual that you can look at?
 
Let's check the travel at the fork itself. Take some kind of measurement from a fixed position, then from up above, press the clutch in and do a 2X4 measurement from the pedal (in the down position) to the front edge of the seat. You can cut a second 10inch 2X4 to lay against the face of the seat side to side and then jam the 2X4 in there and it won't hurt the seat. Crawl back under there and see how much the fork moved. From there I don't know how far it needs to move but I am hoping someone else has that measurement, 3spd or 4spd should be the same during that era, 4spd would be best. My best guesstimate would be that the fork needs to move about two inches or more at the slave cylinder point due to the ratio to engage/disengage the throwout bearing to release the clutch.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 02:29:07 PM
The outside end has to swing about 4 or 5".  I was wondering  about a lever and reverse the slave.  He can increase the swing that way . . .   But there isn't allot of room
 
Stan
To see if we're on the right track. . .
 
Adjust the clutch as far out as you can.  Then start thecar and see if it disengages then.  If it does, you just need a longer slave
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 26, 2010, 02:55:54 PM


Quote from: POLARACO
T

To see if we're on the right track. . .
 
That's why I don't know if the pressure plate is binding or if the slave just doesn't have enough oomph.
Commando12010-11-26 19:56:51
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 26, 2010, 02:58:41 PM

Quote from: dana44


See previous post...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 04:25:11 PM
Then you still have air, or a defective master
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 26, 2010, 04:40:44 PM
I would bleed with a vacuum hand pumps for one person brake bleeding..

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 04:46:02 PM
Put a hose off the end of the bleeder into the can of fluid.  Pump the crap out of it.  Remember where that bleeder is. . . .
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 26, 2010, 04:59:46 PM
You can use the board thingy to depress the pedal so you can, by yourself, open the bleeder and close it, by yourself. I had to bleed the Charger brakes, all new system, lines and hoses, by myself, and this is how I was able to do it.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 26, 2010, 05:18:21 PM
You could buy an AI Robot.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 27, 2010, 02:02:10 AM
I'll get one of those speed bleeders and bleed it first thing. (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 27, 2010, 07:55:12 AM
http://beta.edmunds.com/car-technology/when-fact-meets-friction-the-basics-of-clutch-operation.html?articleid=43837 (http://beta.edmunds.com/car-technology/when-fact-meets-friction-the-basics-of-clutch-operation.html?articleid=43837)

http://www.jegs.com/p/Tilton/Tilton-Hydraulic-Throwout-Bearing-Kit/755538/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/p/Tilton/Tilton-Hydraulic-Throwout-Bearing-Kit/755538/10002/-1)

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-9577.html (http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-9577.html)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 28, 2010, 10:11:14 AM
Going on vacation.....
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 01:02:04 PM
If the arm is making the full swing, it has to be working
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 28, 2010, 01:19:54 PM
On vacation................................
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 28, 2010, 01:39:36 PM
I once bought my father a 1975 Triumph Spitfire because the transmission wouldn't engage or disengage. Picked it up with a rebuilt transmission the guy had installed, towed it home since it couldn't be shifted. Pulled the cover off and was looking at this and that, when all the sudden it became apparent the pivot pin for the fork was sticking up about two inches. Lots of reasons why a new setup isn't working, just gotta dig into it and start diagnosing things one at a time.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 28, 2010, 01:56:08 PM
Fork is 100% AOK in form, fit, and function.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 02:10:09 PM
But is it now after what you just told me about Lance with the cone-a-long?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 28, 2010, 02:25:11 PM
The fork is just about the only indestructable part of the setup. That and the bell housing barring an explosion...
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 28, 2010, 06:15:09 PM
Let's start by doing some diagnosis since we don't know what is going on with everything, kind of verifying everything independently works.
 
Fork is OK, but with the slave cylinder off, does it feel like it is able to move the throwout bearing correctly? As in, put her in gear, grab a bar to move the fork and see if moving it will allow you to turn the driveline freely (rear wheels off the ground of course). Determine the throw and that, then, the slave cylinder extends far enough to move the fork that far. If it doesn't, problem is slave.
Now, if slave doesn't move at all, bleed and recheck the throw of the slave cylinder.
 
Did you find anyone with a Dakota manual trans that you can check the system out physically before getting one?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2010, 06:29:13 PM
The thing that bothersme is Stan said they depressed the clutch with a come-along to get the trans in.  I suggested that and it worked.  Buit he told me in an email tonight Lance appeared to be struggling with the come-along.  He also said the peddle is going to the floor, apparently with no resistence.
 
There are two things to look at.  The correct throw-out bearing, binding on the bearing retainer.
 
My other thoughts are in the slave.  One it's too short a throw, and the second is there may still be some air in the system.  It's possible he has a bad master too.  I'm wondering if the adjuster setup he has is not functioning properly.
 
Stan said it was real hard to move the fork by hand.  But since I can't call him, I can't explain to him, he won't be able to move it by hand.  Not unless he runs up to Clearwater and gets Hulk Hogan to move it for him.   Hulk's a Mopar guy too.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 28, 2010, 07:29:35 PM
Yes, it is stiff and should be, but one does not need to depress the clutch to get the transmission into the car, it is simply sliding into the end of the crank and becoming one unit together. The throwout bearing and the fork simply rests there waiting to press against the pressure plate tines to disengage the clutch between it and the flywheel. If it took depressing to get the tranny into place, backwards or something. Heck, the transmission goes on after everything is set up anyway in this case, so it can be checked prior to throwing the transmission on.
 
My poor suggestion to check things inside is to drop the tranny and make sure everything inside is working. You can check the clutch clearance if not mistaken with the transmission out of the car, but still be able to verify the throwout bearing is being moved by the slave cylinder enough to allow clearance of the clutch and all that by using the clutch alignment tool and when depressed, turn the clutch by the tool. The board thing allows you to do it alone.
 
Stan, did you verify the throwout bearing fit the transmission front yoke and all that? Would hate for it to get pinched and not disengage. If on the other hand the pedal goes to the floor easily, too much pressure could blow the piston in the slave, or clutch cylinder itself, which may or may not mean the trans stuff is fine, just not enough pressure to work the clutch.
 
Stan, what is the slave/master cylinder out of, a Mustang?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 28, 2010, 08:20:33 PM







Quote from: Polaraco
The thing that bothersome is Stan said they depressed the clutch with a
 come-along to get the trans in.  I suggested that and it worked.


Never heard of that, and could not fathom why.....



Quote from: dana44
Yes, it is stiff and should be, but one does not need to depress the clutch to get the transmission into the car, it is simply sliding into the end of the crank and becoming one unit together. The throwout bearing and the fork simply rests there waiting to press against the pressure plate tines to disengage the clutch between it and the flywheel. If it took depressing to get the tranny into place, backwards or something. Heck, the transmission goes on after everything is set up anyway in this case, so it can be checked prior to throwing the transmission on.

Exactly my thoughts.....Something is not right if he had to do anything to the clutch to install it.
thrashingcows2010-11-29 01:22:54
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 01:49:57 AM

Quote from: dana44
Let's start by doing some diagnosis since we don't know what is going on with everything, kind of verifying everything independently works.
 
Fork is OK, but with the slave cylinder off, does it feel like it is able to move the throwout bearing correctly? As in, put her in gear, grab a bar to move the fork and see if moving it will allow you to turn the driveline freely (rear wheels off the ground of course). Determine the throw and that, then, the slave cylinder extends far enough to move the fork that far. If it doesn't, problem is slave.
Now, if slave doesn't move at all, bleed and recheck the throw of the slave cylinder.
 


I played touch feely w/a Dakota slave.  Nope.  Won't fit.  Darn.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 01:52:19 AM

Quote from: POLARACO

Right now, I swear that's the problem....(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 01:56:37 AM

Quote from: dana44
 
Stan, did you verify the throwout bearing fit the transmission front yoke and all that? Would hate for it to get pinched and not disengage. If on the other hand the pedal goes to the floor easily, too much pressure could blow the piston in the slave, or clutch cylinder itself, which may or may not mean the trans stuff is fine, just not enough pressure to work the clutch.
 


The slave/master is a new setup from an early 90s Pathfinder.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 01:59:16 AM

Quote from: thrashingcows
Exactly my thoughts.....Something is not right if he had to do anything to the clutch to install it.
I just don't have the strength to do it alone..................(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 06:33:34 AM
Damn  I wish I were closer
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 08:25:49 AM
I appreciate the offer.  This is the downside to living here.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 29, 2010, 08:41:13 AM
Heck, I would come over and help if it weren't for the timezones between us!(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)
 
I do hate to say it, but drop the tranny and get an idea of what is going on with the tranny off, feel of the pedal, movement of the fork/throwout bearing, clutch clearance. Is the access cover enough visual area to do any of this without having to remove the tranny? Might be able to see something that way to check some things.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 08:57:04 AM
I am NOT comfortable about the way it went in.  It was a concern to me then and I think it has come back to bite me in the azz.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Can you see the bearing from the inspection cover?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 29, 2010, 01:16:09 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Damn  I wish I were closer

I too would help.  Where and how is your car situated?  I've done a few 4 speeds and have always done them by myself on the floor.  I use a regular wheeled floor jack and then some wood to shim it to the right angle and then slide it in.  Can be a trial getting it up and lined up properly but once in position not too bad to get it into the bellhousing and through the clutch.



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 29, 2010, 01:46:32 PM
I'll be right there.....have a cold Pepsi waiting.....







wait....how far is it to Sebring?




(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 01:58:37 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
Can you see the bearing from the inspection cover?
The throw out bearing?  Of course.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 29, 2010, 02:01:52 PM

Quote from: thrashingcows
Quote from: POLARACO
Damn  I wish I were closer

I too would help.  Where and how is your car situated? 

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/attachments/32/liftarea800_90.jpg)

 



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 29, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Well from what I can see in the pic you have a hoist...a tall tranny jack...seems like it's doable to me...but then I'm a few years younger then Y'all.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 04:16:12 PM
You callin the us old?!   LOL
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on November 29, 2010, 04:23:19 PM

Quote from: POLARACO
You callin the us old?!   LOL

I ask you to look down at your own sig.....      (http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilies-2008/action060.gif)(http://file://C:/Users/Hansen/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 29, 2010, 04:46:18 PM
Well you are a kid.  Stans a few months younger than me.  But he's crankier
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 02:39:02 AM
I earned the right ...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 06:27:48 AM
SUMMIT SENT ME THE WRONG FRIGGAN CLUTCH SET!!! 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 06:43:47 AM



(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
 


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 07:02:18 AM
That crap goes on all to often.  It seeems to be more in the computer age
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Guests on November 30, 2010, 07:14:03 AM
Well, we all screwed up on this one. Instead of Summit everyone should have been buying parts from PAW. In a period of 30 or 31 years I NEVER received the wrong parts, and needless to say they have quit selling parts but do early Hemi parts only now. Imagine, thirty years and probably $25,000 in parts and never having the wrong part shipped to me. I am going to miss them, they always got my big purchase orders, but, alas, no more(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif).
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 08:45:25 AM
I will give Summit credit for one thing,  They immediately made a conferance call between me, them, and Zoom and sent out a new one no questions asked, no return of the wrong item.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 30, 2010, 09:59:24 AM
So what parts were wrong?

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 10:04:14 AM
Quote from: Commando1
I will give Summit credit for one thing,  They immediately made a conferance call between me, them, and Zoom and sent out a new one no questions asked, no return of the wrong item.


 
Summit is good like that, especially when you buy allot from them.
 
They let me return a ECM from Polaraco 2 months after I installed it.  That is really rare.  But I spend several thousand a year there too.
 
I later had to order that ECM again and got the same one back.  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)  (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 10:35:27 AM

Quote from: 1965Windsor361
So what parts were wrong?

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 10:44:03 AM
Do you happen to know what it is for?
 
I smell Ebay
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 10:45:16 AM
Finally, things are swinging my way.

(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 30, 2010, 10:46:07 AM
Sorry I asked if your gonna treat me like a dumb ass..

I know you said the wrong clutch set.. but if it was wrong.. HTF did you get it to install?


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 11:59:27 AM
And here I am trying to break away next week and shoot down there to help you.  Not to mention go help Destructo
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
I smell EBay
 
Is the number on the box correct?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stan Paralikis on November 30, 2010, 12:10:46 PM




Quote from: 1965Windsor361
Sorry I asked if your gonna treat me like a dumb ass..
I know you said the wrong clutch set.. but if it was wrong.. HTF did you get it to install?



Now Steve, I want you to read my lips:  For the last time, The cowl and firewall have to stay as one unit or it will be a total piece of junk of no use to you. Drilling out each of the 5000 spotwelds?  How many hardened cutters,  replacement drills, and midgets with muscular arms  do you want to send down?   Yah, I'll tell Lance to do it.  For $30/hr.



Commando12010-11-30 17:25:39
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on November 30, 2010, 01:03:08 PM
if there is something you can salvage.. you might be able to sell so you can put a kick ass pistol grip shifter in that bad girl..

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on November 30, 2010, 01:50:29 PM
Plane ticket,a bed,and beer.
I can do it in a weekend.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 02:06:03 PM
[/QUOTE]
You're not a dumb ass.  I was repeating...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif) 
With a lot of grunt and effort that I was not comfortable with from day 1.  See previous posts.



But you are treating me and Lance like a dumb ass.  If I say that it's the way it has to be done, why are you fighting me tooth and nail and keep trying to tell me what to do.  Steve, I am here.  I see the GD thing down to the bare metal.   I am through with this fight.  I am NOT going to discuss it any more.   This is the end of it.  No more discussion on how to cut up a bunch of metal.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
 
Not so my friend.  Again you misread my intentions.  I was coming down to help you, not to insult you.  Sheeesh  Call it anabove and beyond kindness.  You were the one complaining you were doing it by yourself.  You did it again!
 
 


Now Steve, I want you to read my lips:  For the last time, The cowl and firewall have to stay as one unit or it will be a total piece of junk of no use to you. Drilling out each of the 5000 spotwelds?  How many hardened cutters,  replacement drills, and midgets with muscular arms  do you want to send down?   Yah, I'll tell Lance to do it.  For $30/hr.
 
I'm getting mixed  reviews on this.  Rather take this on a one on one.  He tells me it's almost out.  Well that's the impression he is sending me.  This doesn't belong in this topic anyway


Quote from: POLARACO
I smell EBay 
Numbers were correct.  Summit did not keep up with certain changes Zoom had made which caused the confusion.  
[/QUOTE]

Too bad you don't know what it is.  Could have turned it into $$$.  If you know what the confusion was, then you can narrow it down
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Stitcherbob on November 30, 2010, 02:46:32 PM

clutches make nice furniture

(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/05/22/1_a7WhG_58.jpg)


http://www.thedesignblog.org/entry/hand-crafted-car-part-furniture-for-your-living-room-by-steven-shaver/ (http://www.thedesignblog.org/entry/hand-crafted-car-part-furniture-for-your-living-room-by-steven-shaver/)


Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on November 30, 2010, 03:40:21 PM
Can you imagine me making some of that stuff in this house?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: 300rag on January 21, 2011, 04:22:47 PM
What ever happened with this project???????? Stan???????????
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 21, 2011, 04:56:42 PM
He hasn't been around
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: firedome on January 22, 2011, 09:56:10 AM
He'll get over it... or not.

C'est la vie.



Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2011, 12:11:55 PM
when he turns 5 maybe (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) (http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) 
 
Nah  He's OK  He's just quirky sometimes.  I am still his friend
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Brian on January 22, 2011, 01:43:55 PM
I spotted Stan over on the C-body board.

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2011, 02:26:00 PM
But he's just passing the time and not talking about anything specific.   I asked him what his problem was, but he never answered.  I actually miss him.  Don't you?
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Jason Goldsack on January 22, 2011, 03:12:09 PM
I would love to see if he got it done.. I would never attempt something like that... I'm glad someone did though

Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2011, 03:50:58 PM
He did a nice job when I saw it.  He had it well thought out.  The only thing I had doubts about was the throw on the slave cylinder.  Last I heard he had the wrong clutch and the fork was bent.
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2011, 03:57:45 PM
[/QUOTE]
You're not a dumb ass.  I was repeating...(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif) 
With a lot of grunt and effort that I was not comfortable with from day 1.  See previous posts.



But you are treating me and Lance like a dumb ass.  If I say that it's the way it has to be done, why are you fighting me tooth and nail and keep trying to tell me what to do.  Steve, I am here.  I see the GD thing down to the bare metal.   I am through with this fight.  I am NOT going to discuss it any more.   This is the end of it.  No more discussion on how to cut up a bunch of metal.(http://www.moparfins.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)


Now Steve, I want you to read my lips:  For the last time, The cowl and firewall have to stay as one unit or it will be a total piece of junk of no use to you. Drilling out each of the 5000 spotwelds?  How many hardened cutters,  replacement drills, and midgets with muscular arms  do you want to send down?   Yah, I'll tell Lance to do it.  For $30/hr.


Quote from: POLARACO
I smell EBay 
Numbers were correct.  Summit did not keep up with certain changes Zoom had made which caused the confusion.  
[/QUOTE]
 
 
This was his last post on Nov 30.  I have no idea what I said to set him off.  All I was trying to do was help.  How in the world he felt I was treating him and lance and a "Dumb Ass" is beyond me. . . .  He reads into things sometimes. . .  He did have a tiff with Fogel over something similar a bit ago as well.  Weird.
 
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Leaburn Patey on January 22, 2011, 06:25:57 PM
Project on hold based on his post over on the "dark side" today at  9:23 AM.......
 
So, for that part of the overall project, I'm on hold for a month. " End of quote.
 
Title: The Insanemission thread- CLUTCH
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2011, 06:59:38 PM
I have no idea what his problem is and Lance doesn't say much.