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Author Topic: It's a Neeewwwwww Caaaaarrrrrrrrrr  (Read 2345 times)

Snotty

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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2013, 10:51:43 AM »



[/QUOTE]




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Snotty

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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2013, 10:53:02 AM »


Quote from: thrashingcows
Is it the same 3.5L V6 used in almost all mopars for the last 15+ years....just some newer refinement?  Damn good motors!  My wifes 02 Chrysler COncorde has over 270K Km's and is still running strong.  We've gotten screaming MPG out of it with almost all hwy driving...seen close to 35 MPG a few times.





No.  The new motor is a 3.6, has more power and get much better milage.  The 3.5, introduced in '93, has been retired.
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Snotty

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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2013, 10:53:56 AM »


Quote from: dana44
It should be the new 3.6, the 3.5 isn't being used any more. I like the 3.5, very few problems noted with it over the years, but the 3.8 is an even simpler engine overall. The 3.6 is supposed to be more efficient and is more powerful than both the 3.5 and 3.8, two completely different engines even though they are supposed to be from the same family, top ends from the heads, intake, and cams are different.

Ah, didn't see this - yes.
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Snotty

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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2013, 10:57:51 AM »


Quote from: Sjak Brak
Quote from: stitcherbob
but gas prices lately......  sigh 


How are gas prices on your end nowadays?

Over here, about $9 a gallon since a few months, diesel about 7.8 and propane about 4



Must remember Sjak, we do not have the high taxes on our gas that you do.  I was in Israel earlier in the month.  The price there was 8.50 shekels a Liter.  3.5 shekels to a dollar.  California has the highest taxes on gas in the nation.  Take the 48.9 cents added by the Government and add the 29.5 cents from the State, then add those to the average price per gallon. 
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Snotty

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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2013, 10:58:51 AM »


Quote from: dana44
Yeah, but what is your electric bill going to increase to? That's the only bad thing about the hybrid/plug-ins. People say it is saving the environment, but all  it does is move the location to where the actual contaminants being spewed into the atmosphere, and instead of the fuel bill at a station and amount you can afford, it comes in the form of an electric bill at the end of the month. I want to know what a person's electric bill increases. You hear, yeah, I only spent $20 a month on gas instead of $120, but you never hear my electric bill went from $35 to $150!

Amen!!!
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firedome

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« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2013, 04:48:55 AM »





I've always maintanied that a small 2 or 3 cyl turbo-diesel/electric
direct drive, just like an EMD locomotive, would make a heck of a lot
of sense, and even more so if diesel wasn't so overpriced, particularly
for trips where range  trumps pure efficiency.  True electrics
make sense for commuting, and most families have 2 or 3 cars anyway.



As far as a pure electric car, here are the facts: pollution is far easier to control at a
large generating source than in an individual vehicle. It's far more
efficient and  cost effective to put ionizing electrostatic
scrubbers, the most effective type, and other abatements on a large
point generation source than on small multi-distributed sources such as
a mobile vehicle. Furthermore with electric generation increasingly
being accomplished via Natural Gas (whose price is going down - and we
here in the Southern Tier of NY live right smack in the middle of the
best gas fracking area of the US's Marcellus shale), and more and more by solar, wind,
and hydro-power (VT gets most of its electricity from Hydro-Quebec, Green
Mtn Power is owned by Gaz Metro Quebec), the generation sources are
rapidly moving away from coal to much cleaner sources anyway.
 


 As
to electric recharge costs, the average cost to full recharge averages
~ $2 to $4/charge, depending on kWh rate.  In consumption the
Leaf, for example, which on average consumes 34 kWh/100 mi, costs $3.74
per 100 miles at the US average cost of 11 cents/Kw. At $3.74/gal gas,
that's 1/5 the cost of a car getting 20mpg!  Furthermore a lot of
workplaces are now allowing charging for free during the day when rates
are low as a benefit and to encourage switch to electric in polluted
areas.  As to battery longevity we have a friend who has an old
1st Gen Prius bought new that's now over 13 yr old and still on her 1st
Batt pack, and when they do need replacement dealers are hugely
discounting new packs. Annual consumption: GM says average annual
electric consumption for the Volt is running about 2500 kWh, less than
a typical domestic water heater! and if used strictly as a commuter,
which most do with electrics, not running the gas engine significantly,
that's less than $300/yr.   My wife averages 17mi day on her
round trip, and can charge for free at work... so essentially our fuel
cost would be nil.  The upcoming 2014 SAAB/NEVS (National Electric
Vehicle Sweden) pure electric (possibly plug-in hybrid option as well)
will do even better as it will use new cutting edge battery technology
that's been developed by their Japanese/Chinese Co-owner that's not
available to any other car mfr and  is superior to the technology
of Leaf/Volt/Tesla and far more efficient. The new SAAB/NEVS CEO was
former CEO of Volvo Trucks. AFAIC the ICE is dead, it's time to move
on, (except for our vintage cars of course), and those who don't see it
will be left, as has happened so many times before, in the dustbin of
technological history. I, for one, can't wait for the revolution!
firedome2013-02-22 10:08:31
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dana44

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« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2013, 05:24:22 AM »

With your figures, based on the fact I have variable rate electric prices based on the amount of KWh I use, my bill last month would have gone from $23.85 to $128.12! (the price is $7.69 per KWh after 27KWh consumed, this is based on the 2500KWh per year broken down monthly at current rates, and my consumption of 3KWh this month, down $70 from last year's consumption, so it would have been over $200 per month). In the same period, I spent less than $80 on gasoline for the month, and I drive the least in the family right now. I will agree that I think natural gas would be a good alternative, it is the infrastructure that needs to be installed, along with viable storage containers and a means of swapping filled tanks over filling vehicle installed tanks for faster replenishment.  Electric plug-in locations at work does not change the fact someone else is paying for the electricity, or that the polution transfers to another location, but the fact all prices of goods/services increases equally for all instead of ones self. And a this point we haven't even looked at the current electrical grid having problems being below the service capability right now (the occasional brownout or blackout).  I know the ICE is very inefficient (wht, 13percent efficiency?), so something does have to be done, but let the private sector figure it out a lot cheaper than government subsidizing the development, it is just too expensive.
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firedome

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« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2013, 06:00:05 AM »


No one said anything about gov't subsidies. Nat Gas is coming to big
power plant generation as a result of market forces (ie price) which
has dropped in 3 years from over $10/1000 btu to less than $3 as a
direct result of abundant Marcellus gas. I can drive 15 miles and see
the new gas rigs here. Did not discuss the direct use of Nat Gas in
vehicles, which is also possible, but no new infrastructure is needed
to burn Nat Gas in power plants, in fact for the first time in history
in 2012 over 50% of US power generation was using gas, not coal. And
again more electric generation is by solar, wind & hydro each & every year,
and that will only continue.  Also I will restate:  pollution
is far better (cheaper, more efficient) controlled at the power plant
level than in the individual car. Fact is even at todays level of
technological development, which will be rapidly improved upon,
electric cars make excellent sense as commuting vehicles with total
energy costs right now well demonstrated in the real world to be less
than 25% of that of gasoline cars, even for those paying completely for
charging... and does anyone actually think petrol will get cheaper next
year or the next?? The factors driving practicality for electrics will
only be greater in their favor with each passing year. 
firedome2013-02-22 11:01:33
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firedome

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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2013, 06:06:18 AM »



BTW for diesel/electric fans:  the VW CrossBlue Diesel/Electric
Hybrid was introduced at the Detroit Auto Show last month: 300+hp
500+ft/lb torque,  and $$$$$$$$$$.



I think a 2 or 3 cyl TurboDiesel/Electric in say a Liberty or Xterra size SUV makes more sense.



The next step will be Hydrogen/Electric,  but that will take HUGE infrastructure upgrades.  15-20 yrs away at best.


firedome2013-02-22 11:11:22
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dana44

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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2013, 06:17:49 AM »

I think natural gas is a better alternative, even methane made from waste is more viable than some of the other wind/solar alternatives, which are less than one percent of usable power added to the grid. We had a giant solar farm that was made out here in the desert and the folks raised a stink about the power lines to go from the location to the grid, so they said they would bury the lines, to which they cried foul on it interrupting the ground on federal land or some big thing. Kind of funny. They complain about the current system, then complain about trying to change it. Will they ever be satisfied? Did the same thing with fresh water plant from salt water. Didn't want so much water taken from a river, so the company said they would build a salt to fresh water plant, take the water from a lagoon that was built back in the early 50s, then complained about using that water because it was a natural habitat. They initially said a salt to fresh plant was the only solution that they would accept, give them what they wanted and it wasn't what they wished for.
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Steve

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« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2013, 09:21:19 AM »



First tank, with a bunch of heavy feet test driving, we got 17.7
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firedome

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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2013, 09:46:57 AM »

Not bad. It should improve with miles too Steve.



No doubt Nat gas will be the bridge for a long time... Id llike to
explore a conversion for the old cars like Sjak does over there, might
make economic sense the way gas is going.



Apparently ds-salinization is also super energy intensive... too bad as
we'd consider moving to the SW if we though water supply was assured
long term.







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Snotty

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« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2013, 09:54:45 AM »


Quote from: POLARACO

VW is always over engineered like all the other european cars.  

Perhaps today, but there was nothing over-engineered about the Type 1 and it's like.  Hitler's desire was a simple car for the masses - Volkswagen, the People's Car - and he got it.
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dana44

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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2013, 10:17:52 AM »

CNG engines run pretty good from what I hear, have driven a few pickups powered by it, never had a complaint.
 
As far as the de-salinization goes, I believe it was going to be an upgrade to a natural gas powered generator in the area, which pumps out hot water to begin with to keep the generators cool, so mostly a matter of utilizing existing waste heat to be double-dutied operation.
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firedome

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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2013, 11:51:23 AM »



Test drove a Propane powered '66 Toronado (425 Super Rocket V8 10.75 CR) once
back in the '80s. IIRC it was about $5-600 to convert at the time. It
ran faultlessly, maybe even better than stock, went like a scalded
cat,  but range was quite limted. But that'd be fine for a
vintage car, we don't take 'em on trips anyhow.  One advanage of
CNG/propane is that the engine runs super clean, oil changes can be
extended unless there's excessive blowby from wear. 
firedome2013-02-22 16:52:46
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