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Author Topic: Dodge Electronic ignition issues  (Read 2646 times)

Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« on: April 30, 2012, 03:30:27 PM »

I was told by a Dodge mechanic that My 1941 Chrysler with a 318 engine with electronic ignition will start better if I install what I believe he called a shunt wire to the coil.It is suppose to give me 12 volts to the coil when starting.he said to purchase a starter relay and use it.I have it but for the life of me I can't see how it can be used for anything other than a starter relay.I have read an article tonight stating that dodge had some type of ballast bypass built into their key switch in the 70's.I am using my original key and starter button on the 41 .Can anyone explain to me how I might send 12 volts to the coil for startup only Thanks


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 03:48:46 PM »

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1972/72DartA.JPG
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1972/72DartB.JPG
 
If you trace the wiring at the ignition switch, you will see a brown wire that runs to the switch, then to the ballast resistor, then backtracks to the coil. When "start" is hit, juice runs to the ballast resistor and the coil direct, and when it then goes from "start" to "run", power is removed from this wire. This is why when a ballast resistor burns out the engine will start if you hold the key and it dies as soon as you let go of the key.
 
So, your starter button should have power going to it, right? It should be 12 volts, so I assume by running a wire from the other side of the button to the positive side of the coil, so when you let the button off, that 12 volt shot of juice stops, just like with the key.
 
Now, if this isn't going to work, then it is time to go NASCAR all the way. Your shunt wire can be tapped off the ignition power wire so it is dead without the key turning the power on to it, then a spring loaded toggle switch so you can push it to engage, and as soon as she starts you let off it. Your mechanic is talking about a pushbutton for a remote start, same thing, just thinking about the appearance, a metal spring loaded switch would look a lot nicer and more original. If you watch them start the NASCAR engines, there are more than one switch they flip and hold (spring loaded) and let off as soon as it is started.
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Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 07:13:08 PM »

Ok It looks like I might have to join the Nascar circuit.If I use my starter button to feed the starter and temperarely send 12 volts to the coil ,can I install a diode in the line to the coil to stop the 7 or 9 volts coming from the ballast to the coil from flowing back to the starter?


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 07:48:53 PM »

Didn't you say that if you ran a jumper wire of 12 volts to the coil when starting, she would start right up? If the wire is going to the positive side of the coil only and then over to the NASCAR switch, no need to worry about a one way diode, you are removing the power from it as soon as she starts (pressure release switch), and have nothing to worry about.
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Steve

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 08:08:00 PM »



There's supposed a circuit like that in the electronic ignition wiring.  You'll need to realy to it if you haven't a boost circuit in your switch
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Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 01:14:50 AM »

Dana I was just  kidding about the Nascar thing. I really want to wire it into my push starter button .This is where the Diode comes in.The car is now running and starts up fine.Last week it was a different story.I have changed the module and pickup coil so far and after doing this it worked fine for 1 day and the next it went back to its old tricks of firing when I turn the key off or take power away from the module,whatever I try at the time.I even replaced the distributor out with my points one Friday and the car fires right up everytime.I basically am still trouble shooting this darn electronic ignition I purchased new from a speed shop.I was also told to put the module inside the car to keep it cooler.This is my first try at a dodge running gear in an old car and I am getting frustrated with the system.I will install the shunt wire and move the module if it will help but right now it starts fine with no shunt wire to the coil and the module under the hood.Its like the weather.


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 05:58:14 AM »

High humidity and moisture can do strange things. You have 12 volts going to the starter push button right? Have you simply run a wire from the button to the coil? As soon as the button is not pushed any more, that power shouldn't go to the coil anymore, right?
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Steve

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 07:06:08 AM »



You don't need a diode on that circuit.  That is a NO mechanical switch.  There is no feed back.
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Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 02:45:20 PM »

No  Dana power won`t go to the coil after letting up on the starter push button but won`t the power from the ballast to the coil follow the push button wire and then follow the starter wire that is also on the push button.If I have 2 wires on the positive of the coil power has to flow back up the wire to the pushbutton


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 03:47:21 PM »

If you have 12 volts hot at the switch, when you push the button the 12 volts will go to the positive side of the coil. When you release the button, the 12 volts won't go to the positive side of the coil, the power will be coming from the alternator, right? The field from the alternator routes power to the coil. Your hot wire from the key, not the pushbutton start button, cannot have power going through it that is constant because it doesn't do anything but add the circuit to the starter selonoid, not the electronic ignition, that is with the key, or at least it should be, just like a regular ignition, the power remains at the run position, start is run plus power to the starter selonoid and stops as soon as you let the key off, but everything keeps running.
 
Think of it this way. You said you could hold battery power wire to the coil and push the button and she started right up, then you remove the power wire to the coil and she keeps running. You are doing the same thing, a wire directly from the starter button to the coil, the other wire on the starter button should be your 12 volt power and it is giving power to the starter selonoid, right? The "source" of the power is at the pushbutton and it ceases to exist when you remove your finger after it starts, just like the circuit the button should control when the starter turns over until you take your finger off the button.
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Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 12:54:05 PM »

Dana there seems to be a bit of confusion here.What I want to do is use the starter button for two purposes.One to turn the starter and  secondly to give my coil a 12 volt shunt when starting only.I know when I let up on the starter button all power from the button will be severed but I will still have  power at the coil from the ballast which is keeping the car running.My question is How to stop the voltage at the coil from feeding back to the starter since the shunt wire which is attached to the coil is also attached to the same spot on the push button with the starter wire..I am using the original key switch which is either in the on 'off or acc position.It is not a spring loaded type  .


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 05:24:25 PM »

Your push button start button. It has 12 volts running to it, right? When you push the button that 12 volts should be routed to the starter selonoid, which kicks the starter over, and when you release the button, the 12 volts doesn't have to run to it because the engine is now running. I see what you are talking about now, power running from the coil to the starter selonoid, so you are going to have to have a second spring loaded power switch or button to the coil since that is when you seem to need it.

Try looking at this for a second. Look at the starter switch on the wiring diagram I gave you, follow the wiring for the start circuit (which is your push button) and see if everything is the same. I selected a diagram that was electonic ignition for the ballast resistor and all that,  see if the wiring of what you have and what this routes differs or what is missing, and that will be your answer.

Otherwise, you need a 12 volt button or spring loaded switch that you can hit specifically for 12 volts to the coil that will not feed back on anything and work only when the key is on (depends on what circuit you tap off of).
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Steve

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 05:26:18 PM »


Quote from: cattmann
Dana there seems to be a bit of confusion here.What I want to do is use the starter button for two purposes.One to turn the starter and  secondly to give my coil a 12 volt shunt when starting only.I know when I let up on the starter button all power from the button will be severed but I will still have  power at the coil from the ballast which is keeping the car running.My question is How to stop the voltage at the coil from feeding back to the starter since the shunt wire which is attached to the coil is also attached to the same spot on the push button with the starter wire..I am using the original key switch which is either in the on 'off or acc position.It is not a spring loaded type  .

Nuttin to worry about
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Gary Buckley

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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 02:23:18 AM »

I dont understand why it wont feed back from the coil.The 2 wires in question that are connected to the non powered side of my push button are the starter and the coil.I also have a wire from my ignition switch to the coil for continous running.What stops the flow of whatever it is for voltage from the ignition feed from feeding back to the starter.


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Dodge Electronic ignition issues
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 06:19:32 AM »

Look at the wiring diagram I linked, it is the most simple I could locate with electronic ignition. According to it, you shouldn't be running a wire from the ignition to the coil direct, it should be running through the ballast resistor to the coil.  And, according to your description, this is the way it is wired right now and it isn't feeding back, so why would it afterwards?  Why don't you do an experiment and see what happens? If the starter keeps turning after you let off the key, then you are right, and if it doesn't, you should be good to go.
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