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Author Topic: Poor Brake Pedal  (Read 3585 times)

Gary Buckley

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Poor Brake Pedal
« on: March 12, 2012, 07:05:10 PM »

Hi .Can anyone give me a heads up as to what might be wrong that I cannot get a good pedal on my brakes.I have a 1941 Chrysler royal and I purchased a dual mastercyclinder set up from Pirate jacks.I did everything they explained with drum brakes but It still takes about 4 pumps for a good pedal.I have bled the master cyclinder before installing and have bled the system 3 times.I have residual valves front and back I have factory front setup and a 9" ford setup in the rear.The unit I purchased came with the pedal and is designed for under the floor.


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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 08:02:45 PM »

Four pumps indicates air in the lines still.  First thing to do is a visual check for level. All the brake lines need to be lower than the master cylinder itself or it takes a lot of work to get the system bled because air, even as slow as it flows in brake fluid, can be very stubborn to get out of a line that is above the master cylinder, such as where a flex hose attaches to the frame.  Verify there isn't any fluid showing up as a leak from any of the wheel cylinders, that doesn't help, either.  Bleed the front set first, then move to the rear set, use a small rubber hose attached to the bleeder on the back of the bleeder valve and run it into a glass jar, watch  the fluid, you want clear. Use a short hose and put some fluid in the bottom of the jar so you can prove there isn't any air in it, and if the fluid is dirty or has gunk in it, maybe rebuilding the wheel cylinders would be worthwhile. If clean, get bubbless  fluid through and into the small jar and you know it is good. Swap to the opposite side and do the same thing. Prepare to take some time doing this, otherwise, go to Harbor Freight and get a self-bleeding brake pump and follow the directions, it will set you back around $25 last time I heard.
 
Nice car, by the way. Any pictures?
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firedome

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 04:34:33 AM »

I always thought you started bleeding the farthest wheel away from the
MC first ie: rear pass wheel, then r driver side, front pass side, then
f driver? Is there a reason why to do it differently on this 41?

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 09:25:37 AM »

Not a matter of the furthest to the closest, it is a matter of the two halves of the master cylinder (he has a dual master cylinder now), front pair or rear pair. Single master cylinders are as you said because you are attempting to remove the most air from the longest line first.
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firedome

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 09:33:05 AM »

D'oh! ... forgot he was converting '41 Royal to dual !

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 01:37:39 PM »

That's OK, happens to all of us.
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Steve

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 05:29:19 PM »



Boy I see the Geriatrics are running rabid here.  LOL
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Gary Buckley

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 08:27:05 PM »

Thanks for the info.I pretty well did all the above.Bled throughly 3 times.When I was bleeding them the last time yesterday my son had mentioned that the pedal didnt drop at all when I opened the front bleeders.Some fluid did come out when I loosened the bleeder.I find that most of the pedal when pumped up is Back brakes.The reason being ,When I had my son pumpup the pedal he said that it would go to the floor when I opened the rear bleeder.I also left a pic of my car in a folder Thanks again


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Snotty

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 12:42:06 PM »

I had this happen to me once.  After bleeding it 3 times the pedal remained soft as yours is.  Turned out to be the MC, even though it was new.  The (???) valve inside of the MC was bad.  I put another one one and the problem was gone.  Good for me my parts shop did an exchange.
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Steve

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 02:00:29 PM »




For the life of me I can't remember what it's called now.
POLARACO2012-03-14 18:01:12
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Brian

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 02:13:41 PM »

Residual pressure valve.....That's what your looking  for Steve.  And I'm pretty sure he said he's got one on each line already.


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Brian

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Steve

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 02:47:32 PM »





POLARACO2012-03-14 18:50:13
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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »

And some just require a whole lot more bleeding than you expect, and just because you get fluid as soon as you open the valve just means air would be higher in the line, or while sitting, the air was allowed to collect at a higher point in the line, so you have to push about three to four ounces through the line to get it right. Don't pump up the brake pedal, that causes bubbles, or makes the compressed air break up and increases the length of time to bleed. Press the pedal, let it do what it is going to do, open the bleeder, close the bleeder, let the pedal up, press the pedal, repeat. After about ten times, note if the pedal is improving, then swap wheels.  After the second wheel, swap to the opposite end and do the same.
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Steve

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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 02:52:29 PM »



I always gravity bleed for a few hours.  I
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Poor Brake Pedal
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 03:10:29 PM »

He has a floor master cylinder which may be lower than the wheel cylinders, or lines above the master cylinder level, so he has to bleed a little longer and gentler if he is having problems. One of those brake suction guns may be necessary to overcome any possibility of a bubble being held in the middle of a high point of a line and not able to pump it out gently.
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