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Author Topic: What is a survivor????  (Read 471 times)

Steve

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What is a survivor????
« on: December 08, 2011, 10:03:08 AM »





Lets talk about what a survivor is and when it is a real survivor

POLARACO2011-12-08 15:05:17
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Jacques

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 10:34:38 AM »

A trailer queen driven twice a year to a show, and in between stored in controlled environtment is not a survivor IMO.

A true survivor is a car that has been driven regularly all its life,and is still in sort of original condition, even if e.g. paint is fade or some rust is there.Some damage repair or an engine rebuild is OK, but a total restoration would disqualify.
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What is a survivor????
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 10:52:08 AM »

How do we want to start this Steve?
 
Survivors can be in the eye of the beholder, but it is best if one of a couple things are taken into account. Completeness is important, these are the easiest to revive, just a matter of finding the replacement components and getting them where they belong or restoring what is there. This is best done when the car is cool but not a real rare collector vehicle. If this is the case, one has to be both capable or willing to pay to have the parts made/refurbished to make the car a complete car, usually for a price, so this is something that should be done to ultra-rare cars.
 
We also have to take into account the basket cases. A vehicle that was dismantled by someone else and it is now our job to get the thing back together. These can be great finds and usually the cheapest to do if most of the parts are there. A shop manual for the car/model really helps with this, helps identify missing items most of the time.
 
And don't forget about the rust buckets. These usually require the donor car to get back together, and can in most cases require the greatest amount of work. Caution with these, they are a labor of love more than anything and can be slow to complete due to the labor intensive needs of the vehicle.
 
Nothing prevents any of these from being completed, time is the main concern, available work room is the other. The thing is, you can always find the parts, occasionally and rarely do you have to make something (or have someone do it for you), so the labor of love is the important concern, but doing it right once instead of worrying about it later (or have someone else point out your mistake) is always important, time and a loss of enthusiasm can take their toll, so be careful with these.
 
Even if you have a totally well stored time capsule vehicle that has been sitting for 25 years in a dry garage is a daunting task. Rubber and plastic don't last forever, gaskets shrink over time, material on seats deteriorate, and untouched they can look great but they do break down.
 
Do a little research on the vehicle in question before jumping into it. Similar models, number of years they used the same parts (mostly body panels, engine components, big ticket items), rubber parts, anything aftermarket available, glass (that can be a biggie). These are the things that need to be looked at, then determine what you want to do with her. If going the custom route, things like the running gear and interior can be eliminated, suspension can be changed in the front, so body and frame (unitbody construction) are the important items. Customizing can be done to anything, taste is what makes one happy in that case, labor becomes the issue again, and that is up to the individual.
 
Bumpers can be straightened so those aren't issues, but broken grilles, especially the plastic ones, can be a problem so weight the damage, they can be very costly to replace, difficult at times to repair.
 
Not a big fan of a crashed car, small fender-benders are different, but caution has to be given for unseen damage. Door jambs and sill plates can be issues, bent frames/subframes can be straightened, but still costly, donor cars come in handy for these.
 
How's this for a start? Big and general things to look at, we can get more specific as questions come up, break it down a little more.
 
dana442011-12-08 15:58:33
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What is a survivor????
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 11:02:31 AM »

A true survivor is a car that has been driven regularly all its life,and is still in sort of original condition, even if e.g. paint is fade or some rust is there.Some damage repair or an engine rebuild is OK, but a total restoration would disqualify. [/QUOTE]

I agree, this would be what we consider a #2 or #3 vehicle, so the question to the new buyer is, what do we do with it? My first car, 1968 Charger was 14 years old and not the original engine ( I built that myself along with the transmission), wasn't repainted or many upgrades for many years, but was my daily driver and was just fine, would be a true survivor with 586,000 miles when I gave her back to the original owner, but starting to rust from sitting.
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Steve

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 11:55:09 AM »



In my mind, OE replacement body parts are acceptable.  For example, the virgin has a replacement rear bumper.
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What is a survivor????
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 12:37:18 PM »

I don't have a problem with a lot of parts being replaced as long as they are correct, meaning wheel bearings, rubber components, upholstery, glass, rechroming, things like that. What I don't like if it is being displayed as original is things like a carb that isn't right, a side mirror that wasn't offered on that model, diamond tuck and roll in shiny naugahyde, dingo-balls around the window and five toed dimmer switch, unless it is a custom job, tach attached to the steering column, hood or cowl, then call it mostly stock at the same time.


I don't mind a fender replaced with the correct fender, or a door that was replaced with the correct door, but let me know, or at least give it the courtesy to paint the whole thing instead of just the outside.
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Jacques

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 01:07:57 PM »


During a cars lifetime, some items are added by owners, like better audio, passenger side mirror, propane installation, etc. As long as these are (1) upgrades (so no redneck jobs!), and (2) can be removed without serious damage to the car (so this disqualifies customs) this is fine to still qualify as a survivor.

This extemely clean car is nice food for thoughts for what makes a survivor (or not):
http://californiaclassix.com/archive/69_MB220DV8_c473.html

Sjak Brak2011-12-08 18:08:52
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What is a survivor????
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 01:58:59 PM »

Agree this is one of those exceptions I would consider a very nice modified. Too many people figure that if a different engine goes under the hood there has to be body panels cut up to make if fit. No, just find an engine that fits in the existing engine bay and leave it at that.  Why the heck would they call a 289 a 5.0 liter, that's what I want to know. Not sure what they did to the transmission, either, but I doubt it is original, not sure how many Ford early V8 to Mercedes diesel transmission adapters there are.
 
I would say this is a case where a stock engine/transmission could be installed without too much difficulty, making it a worthwhile restoration candidate, hands down, but the work done was done very well and well proven, no baling wire or duct tape holding her together, and in the case of California, old enough that smog isn't an issue to keep her on the road, which is a plus.
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300rag

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 05:53:03 PM »


[/QUOTE]


 That's how I see a survivor - regular maintenance, no refurbishment or customization.

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Snotty

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 10:44:29 AM »

This question is easily answered.  Since the term was started, and copyrighted, by the Bloomington Gold Corvette Club, contact their website and see what they mean by it.
Personally, I despise it wholeheartedly!
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firedome

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 03:03:21 PM »

I agree with Sjak post #1. 

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Leaburn Patey

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 05:32:08 PM »

My wagon is a survivor..I bought it so no other demo derby guy would have it.
She also survived the rigors of salty winter roads,dumbass drivers.
She survived the boredom of Gerald Ford,the quirkyness of Jimmy Carter,was garaged during Reganomics,bunkered during the Bush reign,and had no sexual relations with Billy Clinton.
 
Like the virgin,Waygun is a rolling time capsule.Barely driven 200 miles in three years
Over  the years,only the necessary items were replaced including perishables like belts,hoses and plug wires..
I still have the parts the PO kept including the bias ply tires!!
With 69,000 on the clock she still wears her factory original drums and rotors just among many other things she was born with.
All I added was dual exhaust,wheels,tires and vintage racing stickers--which all can be reverted back to stock very easily.
I had her appraised in October and she is rated as a #2 car .
A well preserved car and well maintained  driver that is well cared for.
It may see a trailer--but behind it getting towed by the car!!

CBarge2011-12-15 22:35:32
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Steve

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 09:11:57 PM »



Or when you travel with me.  LOL
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firedome

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 04:39:08 AM »

I've seen Waygun in person, she is indeed a text-book case of a true
Survivor! A car never restored but still lookin' pretty durn good! 

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Snotty

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What is a survivor????
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 09:36:33 AM »



Quote from: CBarge







Sorry friends, I am not meaning to attack anyone on this site, but it's subjects like "Survivor cars" and the like that is taking me further and further away from having an interest in going to anything car- related other than drag racing where modified cars are KING! 
Snotty2011-12-16 14:37:21
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