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Author Topic: Turbo Charging a Mopar RB.  (Read 7367 times)

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Turbo Charging a Mopar RB.
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2010, 06:02:21 PM »

Those compressors came off Ford 2.3 liter 4 cylinders. They were used in T-bird Turbocoupes and the Merkur XR4Ti. They were VERY hard to find in the junkyards because the small block guys snatched them up. They were near perfect for a twin turbo 302. The original turbine housings were a T3 .69 A/R for the automatic transmission cars and .96 for the manual transmissions.
Years ago, I was keeping tabs on a web page where someone stuck a pair of them on a 460 in a Fairmont. The car made 700+ ft/lbs below 3000 rpm and then got strangled by the tiny exhaust around 4200 rpm. The air temperatures had to be insane. He pulled them for a larger pair of turbos.
I had a couple of them several years ago but realized they would never work on the 440. I sold them to a friend for his small block. That project never got off the ground.

One idea would be to call a local turbo shop or Mike a dallasturbo.com and see what he would charge to install 60-1 wheels and the matching compressor housings on those turbos.

I've tried to explain stuff in simple terms because some folks reading these posts may not be as familiar with turbos and the big fancy words that go with them.

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Steve

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Turbo Charging a Mopar RB.
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2010, 06:23:50 PM »

I found this injection system.  Thanks AJ
 
http://www.professional-products.com/EFI_3.php  This one claims to work with positive manifold pressure.  It looks pretty good
 
Local Turbo shop????  hahahahahahahah hehehehehehehehehe hohohohohohohhohho
 
I know more than they do.  AND! it has more then 4 cylinders
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« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2010, 09:43:03 AM »

Cool. I didn't know the professional Products system would handle boost. That's nice but it will be limited by the 62 lb injectors. There should be more than enough fuel for what you want.
When I said local turbo shop, I meant turbo rebuilder. Forget the "tuners" and similar guys. If there are big diesel trucks in your area there will be a turbo builder. Their sole business will likely be rebuilding turbos.
 
The turbo you listed is still a T3 turbo. It's got a big wheel in it but the housing is too small.
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Steve

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« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2010, 11:34:59 AM »

The Professional has several different sizes.  I think the next ones are 75 pound.  I am pretty sure there is bigger one after that
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« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2010, 05:31:25 PM »

This may sound crazy, but what about 2 of these?
 
it's well in the flow range, he claims it will deliver 3 PSI at full load.  It's not 8 PSI, but it's cheap and anything would be an improvement. . . .
 
No I haven't been drinking
 
Yet  LOL
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTRIC-SUPERCHARGER-TURBOCHARGER-TURBO-COMPLETE-NEW-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3cb3753f66QQitemZ260708843366QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
 
I looked at Polaraco and have a new delemma.  There is no room to work on the driverside unless I come up from behind
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« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2010, 06:47:23 PM »

That little electric thing is adorable! For the cost of those you can get real turbos. 
He says it will flow 435 cfm but at what pressure? Hint: an electric fan will require LOTS of amperage to compress air and 4.6 amps isn't going to cut it!

Air is unlike the solids and liquids we're used to. Air has variable density. A 5 gallon air tank will hold (surprise!) 5 gallons of air. It will hold 5 gallons at 5 psi. It will also hold 5 gallons at 50 psi. The mass just increased by a factor of 10 but the volume didn't increase. It's still only 5 gallons.
Be careful when talking about desired boost pressure. Boost is actually caused by a restriction in the air flow. That turbo (or supercharger) is slinging air so fast the engine can't take it all.
It's like three guys shoveling dirt into a hole while you're trying to shovel it out. That hole is going to fill up with dirt. When it overflows, you've got a mound of dirt.
The engine fills up with air. The turbo keeps packing it in. There's no other way out so the air gets thicker. Pressure builds. That goes on until the wastegate opens and puts a limit on how fast that turbo spins.


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« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2010, 07:22:57 PM »

I've been going back and forth with him. . . .  I don't think he knows if that's 3 PSI at full flow or not.  That could be 3 dead end.  They draw 4.6 amps and spin at 6600 RPM. It sounds like he is using a stepper motor because of the high speed and current draw.  BUT!  he is using a Garret housing and impeller which tells me there is little hydraulic slip.  But servo motors typically are low brake HP and torque.
 
POLARACO2010-12-18 00:24:41
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Turbo Charging a Mopar RB.
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2010, 07:57:12 PM »

He's got a great gimmick. I bet it's still no more useful than the plastic fan thingies.

To compress that kind of air you're going to need horsepower. I don't think 40 amps would cut it, much less 4.6 amps. The more you compress air the harder it gets .

A typical turbo will have 2 to 3 times more pressure in the exhaust manifold than the intake. It's that pressure that does the work. The combustion cycle keeps powering those pistons to pump out the exhaust.
Now, how much power do you think that backpressure equals? It's a bunch more than what you're going to get out of a 12 volt motor with 14 gauge wires.

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Bill

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« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2010, 01:56:33 AM »

Quote from: POLARACO
 
How about this beast?


 


 
Like this boss;
 
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/2114349127.html
 
 
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Turbo Charging a Mopar RB.
« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2010, 10:06:45 AM »

That looks pretty good. 

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Bill

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« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2010, 03:37:13 PM »

What I don't quite follow for the turbo setup is the oil pressure and return side of things.  Especially the remote turbo.  
 
You know what I've thought about for a down stream turbo would be to install after a catalytic convertor.  Since this should generate additional heat down the stream, it would seem to me the turbo could benefit from that heat as the exhaust gases would again be expanded rather than cooled and condensed. 
 
czervika2010-12-18 20:38:02
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Steve

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« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2010, 03:53:44 PM »

You have to remember, a Turbo is spinning very fast.  The oil lubs the ball bearings and cools them at the same time.  That's why on a Diesel, you're not supposed to shut down with a turbo temp over 300*F.  The oil carbon can crystalize in the bearings and kill them.  Same principle here.
 
I would think the cooler the gas, the tighter the molecules, the easier it will turn the turbo.
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« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2010, 03:59:46 PM »

I sent the guy an offer
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« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2010, 06:33:15 PM »

Maybe he'll take it. Then you can find a mate for it somewhere.

As for oiling a turbo, it's pretty basic. They don't need much. In fact, I've got a pair of the factory oil restrictors from Mazda RX-7s in my lines. They look almost like jets for a Holley carburetor.
The turbos will spin anywhere from 60,000 to 150,000 rpm depending on the size and application. That's way too fast for an axle type seal. It would put too much drag on the turbine shaft and the heat would melt it anyway. Instead, turbos have a simple little slinger type seal on each end of the shaft. It's essentially a little disc on pushed really close to the edge of the housing. That thing spins so fast that any oil contacting it is flung across the housing before it can sneak by. That high speed rotation whips it into a lather resembling funky colored shaving cream. It then drains out of the housing by gravity. That drain has to be at least 1/2" in diameter and run downhill to the engine or a tank.
If you cram oil in the turbo faster than it can drain or if the drain is not big or steep enough to get the oil out, the oil fills the center housing. When that happens the oil will get around those slingers and the engine smokes like a Cheech and Chong movie.
For remote mount turbos or any turbo that can't drain back to the engine you use a pump to return the oil to a reservoir or the engine. Oil can be supplied by a stand alone system or the engine oil pump. Turbos use so little oil the engine will never know the difference. If you do have a remote reservoir being fed with engine oil be sure to add enough oil keep that system and the crank case full.


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